Butcher OUT?

[Ten4]

Agree we would be probably top six without injuries.

Pity we couldnt just keep all together to start again next season.

And anyway if Butcher moved on,who would be next in line for the Caley Throne ?

[Alex MacLeod]

Get this team fit and working well together and we could be aiming for the top spot next season. Rangers wont be there so the joint sponsorship deals will dry up. Celtics average gate will drop so they'll have to cut there cloth to suit. It'll be easy competition.

[+bughtmaster]

Great to see all the positives coming back, good on you guys!

I cant help getting annoyed when all the doom and gloom comes on!! You may have noticed that!!

Keep on giving the team and management your backing the rewards will come.

Vive le ICT

[absent friend]

Isn't it wonderful how a keyboard allows such insight into football management??

I wonder why the club do not purchase, for Terry, the keyboards of Sonam and his backers - let's be fair Sonam and Co are at every training session, advising the physio on the progress of the players on his couch and are so aware of the match fitness, physically and mentally, of all the players?

He, with his new keyboard, can also 'magic' a few wizards from Chelsea, Man U or maybe even the Arsenal boy making a scoring name for himself at the moment.

Funding? That will come from the keyboard spectators who will rush to the park every week when van Persie arrives.

Now, wait, something else is missing? I know the keyboard fly past of the red arrows every time we score a goal.

A little team, in a little town, in a faraway place, with very little support who, if you believe the keyboard wizards, are a BIG team, in a BIG town,In the heart of where it matters and have the potential to draw in thousands more into the park.

Sonam and co, get your head down on your magic keyboard and .... dream on!!

[+Fraz]

Isn't it wonderful how a keyboard allows such insight into football management??

I wonder why the club do not purchase, for Terry, the keyboards of Sonam and his backers - let's be fair Sonam and Co are at every training session, advising the physio on the progress of the players on his couch and are so aware of the match fitness, physically and mentally, of all the players?

He, with his new keyboard, can also 'magic' a few wizards from Chelsea, Man U or maybe even the Arsenal boy making a scoring name for himself at the moment.

Funding? That will come from the keyboard spectators who will rush to the park every week when van Persie arrives.

Now, wait, something else is missing? I know the keyboard fly past of the red arrows every time we score a goal.

A little team, in a little town, in a faraway place, with very little support who, if you believe the keyboard wizards, are a BIG team, in a BIG town,In the heart of where it matters and have the potential to draw in thousands more into the park.

Sonam and co, get your head down on your magic keyboard and .... dream on!!

I know, how dare people question the management team or players you'd think they helped pay their wages or something! If only everyone on CTO could just write positive things all day everyday for a whole season we'd be in Europe no problem.

Seriously though, so people are not allowed to have an opinion on the management of ICT in a forum for err ICT better just shut the site down now then guys.

[Huisdean]

I think there is a healthy level of opinion from all sides on this site with some people prepared to defend/explain their positions. That has to be good but some posters, on both sides of this particular debate, just don't want to see each others point of view. I do also think some posters need a shot of realism on ICT's place in Scottish football, we will probably never win the title, but we should always aspire to do so, we should always try to play attractive football but sometimes that does not win you games. A few posters have indiacted that they would rather see attractive football even if it meant we dropped down a division, I cannot undertsand that point of view at all. In theory you raise the standard of play by playing better teams.

I fully accept that everything in the garden is not rosy at the moment and to me, the club does seem to be lacking a bit of direction from the board but these are difficult times in Scottish Football just now.

[bishbashbosh]

we could not afford to ditch tel and mo.

agree with tmfj re this seasons entertainment though. although injuries are probably the main reason

i have always said we are the worst footballing team in the spl. cant keep ball for more than a couple of touches. at our best when we hit on the break and only 2-3 players involved

can only think of the hearts game at home a couple of months ago where i was getting excited about our play.

i would like to see our so called spl players kick wih both feet. dont know how many times this season i have seen gillet arch his body to hoof ball away with left foot when facing our goal( usually straight up in the air in our box) when a lash with the right foot was required. or seeing shane sutherland hoof another ball high and wide of the target, running with the ball but never in control of it, always behind himself or tade run until he looses ball etc etc etc.

i am the proud owner of 4 season tickets. the wife sits and texts her mates now, grandaughter has stopped coming-- too boring and my wee man, 5 year old grandson who used to rush into my house on a saturday kitted out for the footie shouting " come on grandad lets go to the football" sits down and asks me to play the man utd games that i record every saturday night for him.

me i just moan. sorry for the people who sit around me

looks like 4 spares seats available next year.

ps

i would like to see an old fav get a scouts job------ one thing about steve patterson he knew a player when he saw one

( apart from de baros, mcginely, etc etc)

[lizi]

Oh dear. Such sad, dreary comments. Do anyone of the above posters go to the games or just read the newspaper reviews.

I have been to all the games this season so far, as usual and, ok, some have been dire, some more dire than others, and some pleasantly surprising (v Killie away - wow!!)(and the last minutes v Dunfermline in the Cup - thanks to the 4th official for the extra minutes due to Dumfarmline's time wasting after they scored = wonder if they learned any lessons that day). But, overall, there have been ups and downs - Johnny Hayes goal v Hibs (away) was a great "up" for example. Goal of the month - remember?

Please, folks, look to the postitives, not just the negatives. In my day job I say to candidates - be positive, not negative - I know its not easy, but, folks, the players are only human and have off days just like us all. (We just hope the off days don't occur on Saturdays). Lecture over!!!

[Renegade]

I think there's two things here that are leading to frustration in some quarters. One is that ICT still have yet to achieve a top six finish. The SPL glamour has finally worn off and I think that many people are tired of the bottom six mediocrity that seems to happen every season. The club needs top six and needs it soon. Things have gone stale.

The other, is the style of football. What we have to understand here, is that Terry Butcher is a long ball manager. He's done it here, he did it at Brentford, he did at Coventry and it was a big factor in his sacking at Sydney. Many people, and I know I am one of them, are sick of the game being played in the stratosphere. It's not football, it's not what people want to see. Craig Brewster played much the same style and was slaughtered for it - there was none of this "be quiet and look at the positives" attitude that seems to blind many people nowadays towards "dissenters" when he was in charge. I'm also no fan of this "it's Butcher's team and he can do what he likes" way of thinking, in fact, such a statement is absolute rubbish. It's not just Butcher's team - it's ours too. Butcher's got some people eating out of his hand, but take away the media savvyness that he brings, and what do we really have this season? At this point, not a lot.

[Scarlet Pimple]

At last the long ball stuff has an upside--it stops the full backs constantly passing to each other instead of trying to get the ball up the park.

Doesn't that just gall you --looks either cynical indifference to the theory of attack or just lazy, safety first stuff or get the responsibilty of losing the ball off my back? Back and fore like yo-yos sometimes. -- is that what the fan pays for?

[dougal]

Why is it frowned upon if you have a negative point to make about the club on this site?

I'm sorry to break the news to the happy clappers on here but that is what a football forum is all about, it would be one boring site if everyone had the same opinion and everyone just posted the same repetitive crap

Not going to name and shame as I don't want to enter into any arguments but it's time they entered the real world

I personally think Butcher and Malpas have taken this club as far as they can, a top six finish will not happen under this duo

One thing is for certain is they won't be sacked as we couldn't afford too, I say let their contracts run out and then the time will be right to change the management so we can get some fresh ideas as I sadly see the club stagnating at present

This might rile some but what about Derek Adams? Say what you want about the guy but he's taken a SFL diddy club to a Scottish cup final and now to the SPL( unless something drastically goes wrong which I can't see happening)

Dougal

[Huisdean]

Don't think it is frowned upon, at least not by me, to have a negative or different viewpoint on this forum. The problem is that so many posters hold deeply entrenched views and cannot see the other side of the argument. That isn't good for debate.

As for County abd Drerek Adams, they got lucky to get to the final and were well beaten in the final. Winning the first division and then competing in the SPL are two different things. County also have a lot of staff outr of contract at the end of the season and it still remains to be seen whether the players that have/stay can play at SPL level. Comparisons with County at this stage are meaningless.

[ICTPaisley]

Don't think it is frowned upon, at least not by me, to have a negative or different viewpoint on this forum. The problem is that so many posters hold deeply entrenched views and cannot see the other side of the argument. That isn't good for debate.

As for County abd Drerek Adams, they got lucky to get to the final and were well beaten in the final. Winning the first division and then competing in the SPL are two different things. County also have a lot of staff outr of contract at the end of the season and it still remains to be seen whether the players that have/stay can play at SPL level. Comparisons with County at this stage are meaningless.

they got lucky? They destroyed Celtic 2-0 at hampden and fully deserved the cup final that we still haven't had. I would also say winning the first division is a great achievement, it's certainly harder winning the first division than staying up. Over the past 10 seasons I think Gretna were the only team to go back down. Dunfermline are looking good for the drop this year too but most teams comfortably finish their first season off the bottom.

[AJS]

I think there's two things here that are leading to frustration in some quarters. One is that ICT still have yet to achieve a top six finish. The SPL glamour has finally worn off and I think that many people are tired of the bottom six mediocrity that seems to happen every season. The club needs top six and needs it soon. Things have gone stale.

The other, is the style of football. What we have to understand here, is that Terry Butcher is a long ball manager. He's done it here, he did it at Brentford, he did at Coventry and it was a big factor in his sacking at Sydney. Many people, and I know I am one of them, are sick of the game being played in the stratosphere. It's not football, it's not what people want to see. Craig Brewster played much the same style and was slaughtered for it - there was none of this "be quiet and look at the positives" attitude that seems to blind many people nowadays towards "dissenters" when he was in charge. I'm also no fan of this "it's Butcher's team and he can do what he likes" way of thinking, in fact, such a statement is absolute rubbish. It's not just Butcher's team - it's ours too. Butcher's got some people eating out of his hand, but take away the media savvyness that he brings, and what do we really have this season? At this point, not a lot.

Renegade makes a good point. Butcher said at the end of last season that he was keen to change our style of play but you couldnt even count on one hand the number of times it has been put into practice. I think the only difference is that there are first team members that still very much want to play for Butcher whereas with Brewster that wasnt the case.

[PaderbornCaley]

Why is it frowned upon if you have a negative point to make about the club on this site?

I'm sorry to break the news to the happy clappers on here but that is what a football forum is all about, it would be one boring site if everyone had the same opinion and everyone just posted the same repetitive crap

Not going to name and shame as I don't want to enter into any arguments but it's time they entered the real world

I personally think Butcher and Malpas have taken this club as far as they can, a top six finish will not happen under this duo

One thing is for certain is they won't be sacked as we couldn't afford too, I say let their contracts run out and then the time will be right to change the management so we can get some fresh ideas as I sadly see the club stagnating at present

This might rile some but what about Derek Adams? Say what you want about the guy but he's taken a SFL diddy club to a Scottish cup final and now to the SPL( unless something drastically goes wrong which I can't see happening)

Dougal

I have to say that Doiugal is spot on regarding people not having same opinions. I wouldn't use this site if there weren't any debate. This thread is a very healthy thread that is justified after many grumblings about Butcher. Look at the thread title. 'Butcher OUT?'. Notice the question mark. It's an invitation to discuss the management, not to tell people that they shouldn't have any negative opninion on the management team!

So, to answer the question, Butcher Out? No. But I agree that he cannot take us any further. But who could? On our budget we will always struggle to be a top 6 team. What I expect from the management however, is to be able to construct a team that seem motivated to at least challenge, or play well. There's no shame in losing to the likes of Dundee United - there is when the players don't seem to care. It is Butchers team now and he is responsible for them. He must re-construct in the summer and he will be given the chance. But as I have said in a previous post, if he makes the same mistakes and panic buys, we WILL have another bad season and will be likely relegation contenders. Hopefully he has learned from last summer and in the new season, he gets the team (no doubt with lots of new players due to contracts running out) winning or at least playing well / motivated.

As for Derek Adams. No way would I ever want him near this club. He has done a great job with County but he appears to be deeply unpopular with many in Dingwall. I don't think he is a very nice person - he is certainly a very angry man! Look at all his touchline bans. I can't remember who it was, but remember him punching one of his players in the dresssing room after a match. He's a loose cannon - possibly a competent football manager in terms of tactics but too much of a bomb scare imho.

Edited March 9, 2012 by CapitalCaley

[AJS]

It was Sean Higgins he punched and i believe it led to Tony Bullock resigning.

[Jay_7]

For me an interesting point raised by CapitalCaley is the phrase "when the players don't seem to care"

I recall much earlier in the season that questions were asked of David Davis' motivation, directly via Twitter. His response? Well the next game played was against Kilmarnock...

There are very few players this season who I could accuse of regularly looking like they give a flying f**k about the result of any given game this season.

[Renegade]

I see Butcher reckons today that injuries cost the club a top six place. Aye Terry that's the only reason why, isn't it........?

[starchief]

He must re-construct in the summer and he will be given the chance.

He has to strengthen in central defence. Is that bloke Hogg still without a club? We also need more invention on the left wing. Maybe we could try to get Aaron Doran back again. We're desperately lacking a defensive mid. I hear Welsh international Tudur-Jones is available. All that leaves is someone capable of working a bit of magic and sticking the ball away. Didn't Rangers have someone like that. Think he's the brother of Graeme Shinnie. Andrew or something. That, combined with our current squad, should probably be chasing top six.

[12th Man]

To coin a common Dundee United fans phrase used for years, 'its all about next season'. Considering County will probably be entering the SPL arena with a unified, slick passing team with good tactics, we really do need to get it right for next season.

[+DoofersDad]

When I first saw the name of this thread I thought it was going to contain conjecture regarding Terry's sexual preferences - but fortunately it's been far more interesting than that.

[+Wanderer]

I see the problem now...apparently Terry doesn't attend the same matches we do. From today's Scotsman:

"Butcher, on reflection, was generally satisfied with his side’s performance at Tannadice but he bemoaned a lack of invention. “I’m just looking for us to do a little bit better than Monday night,” he said."

£21 entry, £25 petrol...can't say I was 'generally satisfied', must confess.

[12th Man]

£1.85 bus, watch the game for free on tv, £2.80 a pint at the club and a free lift home.

Unless you live further south then a 270+ mile round trip on a Monday night isnt really worth it and 170 miles of that journey is single carrigeway for us.

Monday night football isnt good for fans where as Friday night football in Aberdeen was very popular.

[lukemackay]

I see Butcher reckons today that injuries cost the club a top six place. Aye Terry that's the only reason why, isn't it........?

So if we had a fit jones, doran, hogg, and meekings, all season we wouldn't be higher in the league? There's no doubt that we would be higher imo

[AJS]

I see Butcher reckons today that injuries cost the club a top six place. Aye Terry that's the only reason why, isn't it........?

So if we had a fit jones, doran, hogg, and meekings, all season we wouldn't be higher in the league? There's no doubt that we would be higher imo

Add a fit Hayes, Golobart and Shinnie to that and its a definite