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ICT -V- St Johnstone


Scotty

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Half price entry to see a half assed performance...and it would seem only half the ball boys!!! Seriously, how much time was wasted waiting for someone to retrieve the ball tonight? We were complaining about St Johnstone wasting time towards the end, but the truth of the matter is, all they had to do (and were doing when they realised) was to stick the ball out of play at the Main Stand side corners as it took forever and a day to collect it and get it back into play.... embarrassing.

Agree with much of what has been said about our own performance, but totally disagree with the suggestions that St Johnstone were any better. For all the talk of Sandaza and Sheridan, they did very little to trouble us and I would say we had more shots (on and off target) than St Johnstone.

The only thing that separated us tonight was the totally naive, stupid and utterly pointless penalty conceded by Tade.

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Poor display, but even poorer management. I'm probably the umpteenth person to say it, but I'll say it nonetheless as it's obvious to all us fans - Mackay is by no means a lone striker and our system was horrifically unfair to him (1x 5'7 attacker vs 2/3/4 6'+ defenders only ever has one winner, despite Billy's absolute best efforts), Tansey's starting berth begs belief and Tade and Sutherland don't work out wide. Tade is very much a form player and it was apparent from early on that nothing was going his way and he needed subbed, yet Ross was kept on bench till too late (not the type of guy to instantly turn a game) and Winnall bizarrely never got near the pitch, yet Gnapka got a run out. Not one did I see TB or MM encourage the team, all the screaming did was instill more fear in the players. Fair play to those on the pitch, didnt see Foran do his usual turn-on-teammates stuff, and amazingly Tokely and Golabart didn't have a bust up after a crigeworthy mess on second half.

Tokely most obvious MoM in a longtime, passmarks to Shinnie too.

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Forgot about Tansey. Sorry but you have done little to earn a place in the team, and your dead balls are rubbish. Where are all these thirty yard free kicks we were promised when you signed from wherever. Not up to scratch in one of our problem areas, our midfield has absolutely no creativity. Hopefully in getting some of the injured players back this will improve, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Butcher has got into the habit recently of getting into arguments with members of the crowd behind his dugout. I get the distinct feeling that his failure to make a change for so long was sheer bloody-mindedness at the fact that everyone in the ten rows behind him kept pointing out that substitutions were needed!

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That was bad. The two things for me were the lack of quality on show and the lack of tactical nous from the manager.

Tudur-Jones may do well in the future and I thought he started pretty well. Perhaps he's not match fit but he completely faded out of the game after the first 20 minutes. There was simply no invention, no cutting edge and no composure in front of goal. And whilst the team battled well to get possession, when they had the ball they seemed unable to do anything with it. The passing was absolutely dire but then there was so little movement off the ball to give options. This was summed up for me by the number of times Tuffey collected the ball looking to release it quickly but there was never anyone wide and free to collect it and he ended up with the long punt to our 5' 7" target man.

And that brings me to the tactics. Why oh why does Terry continue with a tactic which doesn't work and which has never looked like working. MacKay has his good points but for me he needs a big striker alongside. Sutherland is not a winger and is far more effective up front. So as the goals are simply not coming, Terry must know it is time to try something different. St Johnstone pressed high and crowded the midfield and Terry had no answer to it. Substitutions too little too late. Nick Ross looked more likely to create chances than anyone else but didn't really have time to create an impact.

The high point was clearlyTokely's inspirational performance. I can't remember seeing a game when one player has been so much better than anyone else in the team. It was therefore very disappointing that his performance did not seem to lift the others. It was almost a case of "let's give the ball away so we can admire some more of Roscoe's defending!"

Despite all this gloom, the strange thing is that we actually had the better chances and with finishing of even division 2 standard we would have won the game.

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we had 57% possession each team had 2 shots on target and it was decided by a penalty. does that not just sum up our season? its time to get player signed up for next season work to end this season on a high.

Edited by lukemackay
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tonight i felt we looked like a team with nothing to play for and im certain that butcher will knock it out of them (possibly literally) and itll get better from tonight to the end of the season.

Dont hold yer breath mate....

That was criminal tonight, to take money off fans and play like that? TB / MM had no clue whatsoever how to play Saints, wrong team, wrong set up, wrong tactics...

Makes me laugh that TB wants to keep Tade... why? you get donkeys cheap at Blackpool beach!

Shane is so out of sorts where he is and yet the management persist in playing him wide! and why does tansey get a start? the guy is PYSH, cant run cant shoot worth a feck what is he on the pitch every week for?

Really thinking of not going on sunday.

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Dear oh dear i must admit i saw this coming, excluding the run we went on in January we seem to have this habbit of being S**t after winning a game.

Another game, another gifted goal for the oppostition. Not an OG tonight but instead a penalty. People think it was soft but for me Tade didnt have to be anywhere near the box, i dont think Craig was getting to the ball anyway and it just summed up Tade's performance tonight which was arguably his worst for the club.

We huffed, puffed but just couldnt blow St Johnstones defence down but at the same time we were passing the ball to ghosts that only ICT players seemed to be able to see and when we did we spurned whatever chances came our way. Tade being the most guilty, the goal was gaping and he scuffed it wide, im sorry but my right foot is just for putting the other boot on and i still could have scored that.

What was really frustrating for me though was that St Johnstone weren't even at their best tonight, one shot on target all game, which was their spot-kick. They had players like Croft and Sandaza out there who were easing through this game and it seemed that the best we could muster was a few passes that would eventually lead to nothing.

One player who evades criticism tonight is Billy McKay who for me was awesome. He ran his little heart out, chasing long balls, chasing lost causes, trying to carve out chances for himself and team mates and doing his best against a strong defence and was probably the only player out there tonight for our side that could have been referred to as a threat.

When Claude Gnakpa came on i feared the worst but in about 5 minutes he managed carve out a beautiful cross that Foran nearly got on the end of and a wonderful strike that clipped the bar in the last minute. If he would just put a bit more effort into his overall effort in a game he could be a good player.

We HAVE to pick ourselves up for the Hibs game now, we have and will have no more games in hand now and need to keep as much distance between ourselves and the scrap for the drop as possible, i dread the idea of looking over our shoulders after the fixtures split. Boys you know you are better than this so start showing it!!!

Edited by ajsict92
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A bit of perspective is required.

Yes, it was poor and the points regarding the overall lack of quality are accurate. Unfortunately we are in the business of looking for free signings and paying low wages - this does not add up to the ability to simply make simple changes.

In terms of Butcher, the biggest problem that he seemed lost as to how to change things in the second half. That said, we simply do not have any 'impact' players on the bench who can fundimentally change the type of game we play (the two who could are both currently injured).

The defense as a whole were pretty solid. TJ as expected after being out for 6 months ran out of steam after an hour, however he is one of the few players who doesn't panic when people come near him and can pass to within 20m of a team mate (when they are only 20m away!).

Tansey - I'm afraid he is one of the most 'ordinary' players I have ever seen for a while. Never has a poor game, but then rarely seems to have a good game. Came hear as a 'goal scoring' midfielder you will recall

The main difference last night can be summarised as the difference between top six and bottom six teams (we are clearly the latter at the moment). We have two gold plated chances and can't even shoot without tripping over the ball. They get a sniff from a penalty and win the game.

Unless we get a serious amount of money from somewhere (which we won't) we have to look to build a team over a few seasons and hopefully develop our own players to augment this. This is year 1 of the development and there are some changes to be made over the summer, however to maintain perspective, we were not played off the park and we did in fact have clear chances in the first half to win the game.

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I could come on here and criticise all the players for the performance last night but that for me wasnt the biggest worry for me.

The biggest worries i have of last night was the 'tactics' and 'personnel' chosen by the manager. I agree it must have been difficult to change things after putting on a good first half display at Aberdeen however we were playing a largely average Aberdeen side and it is clear to see that St Johnstone are playing well this season and may require a different approach. Whether we have a scouting system in place that analyses oppositions' normal tactics i dont know but it our tactics did not work last night.

It was clear to anyone there last night that lumping high balls to a small forward was not working, this doesnt work ever, so why on earth were we happy to persist with it! Our midfield didnt gel at all last night. Tansey came here as an attacking midfielder who can score goals but he constantly plays deep and to be honest his set-pieces and shooting have been very poor of late. Foran started very well in his new role as a holding midfielder however with Tansey and OTJ basically playing the same role do we really need 3 holding midfielders? Where is the creativity?

Set pieces were a shambles last night, do were practice them in training? All we did was lump the ball into the box and hope for the best

Sutherland and Tade are wasted out on the wings and by the time Terry saw fit to change it, it was too late and his decision to put Tansey at right midfield was a strange one. We really need players like Hayes and Doran back to have any success on the wings

Playing McKay up front alone was a risk and playing high balls to him was lunacy however on the rare occasion he got the ball to him, in space, in the box, he did very well and looked capable of creating something. It didnt happen often enough though

I have to say last night left feeling really really disheartened and i havent felt this low about watching Caley in a long time. I dont get to many away games through other commitments and costs and i can honestly say i cannot remember the last time i left TCS thinking we played good football, were spot on tactically and i have optimism for the future. It seems on the rare occasion we play good football we are away from homee and youve got to ask why, i cant for the life of me understand why

Bring on next season, get some new players in, dead wood out and start again

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I don’t know where to start with that performance last night, it truly was bloody awful, abysmal. Easily one of the worst performances of our SPL era and aside from Rosco’s inspirational performance there were almost no positives to take from that game.

Tuffey looked confident and assured in goal tonight but as he didn’t really have anything to do it’s difficult to give him anything more than a neutral score for his performance, he at the very least avoids criticism for last night’s showing.

A hard worker and a player I have really begun to like (mainly as he makes me laugh at least 2 or 3 times every game) is Golobart who was reasonable too, despite the usual couple of shaky moments he seems to have every game, he, as he always does, put in an effort.

Ross Tokely - Brilliant as always. How much better did we look up front when he went forward for the last 5 minutes? Last night I thought for a moment, maybe this is a role he could be very useful in for us since all we do is hoof high balls forward all the time. I quickly realised however that the massive Ross Tokely sized hole that would be left in defence would probably cost us more goals than he would help us create at the other end.

Piermayr and Shinnie were at best average.

Jones largely seemed to let the game pass him by and looked like he was scared to get stuck in (maybe with his recent injury in mind).

Foran has been garbage all season and was garbage last night.

Tansey ran about endlessly without contributing anything constructive.

Sutherland at times played quite well, he showed willing and a few flashes of talent but every time the final ball was awful.

Billy McKay never stood a chance last night, why persist in pumping high balls forward to the smallest player in our team all night. It was obvious from the start (and in previous games) that this isn’t working (why would it)? As far as I’m concerned the jury is still out on McKay but under the current system we will never find out how good he is.

Tade had an off day, as someone has mentioned previously he is very much a form player and last night I can categorically say, “he was not on form”.

Nick Ross looked good when he came on and should have been introduced earlier.

Gnapka – Despite some of the criticism he has come under on here I think he looks like he has the potential to be a very good player, never had time to make an impact and was unlucky with his chance.

Whilst I’m a big fan of Terry Butcher and I am more than happy to have him as our manager, it’s obvious the current system is not working and changes need to be made. Listening to his post match interview last night is sounds as though he may be considering this, although he is starting to sound like a broken record as far as this is concerned. We have been horrendously unlucky with injuries this season and undoubtedly would be much higher in the league had we kept a fully fit squad, for this Terry can’t be blamed. We have the basis of a good team and with a little tweak here and there and a fully fit squad I think the outlook for next season looks fairly positive.

That said, I am away this weekend and quite glad I won’t have to sit through another 90 minutes of that dross.

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I think the matter of the long ball is a big issue here. At the end of last season, Butcher said there would be a change in the footballing style for this season, so where is it? There has been some change, that's for sure, the new style is just more long balls! But should we expect anything different? Butcher's long ball style was hated at Sydney and it was hated at Brentford - he is a long ball manager.

I think this can primarily be seen yesterday was in the first half. Tuffey was about to take a quick passed goal kick to Piermayr, only for Butcher to come racing to the edge of his area screaming "Get it up the park! Get it up the park!". This just shows that it what he wants to see and doesn't have the courage in his players to play and to win. The problem is, most of these players are one HE brought in.

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Long ball is a style that's worked for many clubs. It's not simply a matter of not trusting players, just a tactic. People like Ruud Gullit and Glenn Hoddle would regularly, and would be lauded, for making the long ball. The difference was that they were usually at an unexpected moment and absolutely spot on.

That said, I think a midfield that can bring in Jones, Tansey, Ross and Foran (leaving aside the wingers and the injured) is actually at it's best when playing the passing game. None of them are really the 100mph engine players that Terry wants them to be. Building from Jones at the back, with Tansey and Ross passing up to the wings is the way to go.

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Long ball is a style that's worked for many clubs. It's not simply a matter of not trusting players, just a tactic. People like Ruud Gullit and Glenn Hoddle would regularly, and would be lauded, for making the long ball. The difference was that they were usually at an unexpected moment and absolutely spot on.

That said, I think a midfield that can bring in Jones, Tansey, Ross and Foran (leaving aside the wingers and the injured) is actually at it's best when playing the passing game. None of them are really the 100mph engine players that Terry wants them to be. Building from Jones at the back, with Tansey and Ross passing up to the wings is the way to go.

that for me is an excellent suggestion. I think if you relieve some of the defensive duties asked of Tansey then he has more scope to get forward and link the defence to attack. Tansey and Ross in the midfield in front of Jones would be hugely more creative than having three deep central midfielders IMO

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I have no problem with long balls when we have players capaple of utilizing it properly, the problem is we don't. There is a big difference as you mention between players like Hoddle and Gullit picking out a player (in space) with a well executed long ball and just constantly punting the ball forward into a gaggle of players in the hope that eventually one of our players will win the ball.

We have plenty of good midfield players but the problem is they are largely redundant for long spells during games as the ball is just being contantly hoofed over them.

Edited by ict123
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What can I say that hasnt already been said. Ive had more exciting nights watching paint dry! Boring boring boring. Roll on sunday with the hope things will improve. The only players who get any pass marks from me are Roscoe Shinnie and Mackay. Ref was awful as were the tactics from Terry and Mo. Think they should apologise to the fans who spent good money last night.

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Not only does it dishearten regular fans but how on earth are we to attract new fans if we continue to put out useless displays on the park.

I am always on at friends (who either dont support local teams or dont usally follow football) in Inverness to come along to games and last night i took my fourth guest this season to a home game. They were hugely suprised how poor we were and i think i would be hard pushed to tempt them back. This is not the first time this is happened when ive taken friends to home games, it really doesnt do us any favours

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Long ball is a style that's worked for many clubs. It's not simply a matter of not trusting players, just a tactic. People like Ruud Gullit and Glenn Hoddle would regularly, and would be lauded, for making the long ball. The difference was that they were usually at an unexpected moment and absolutely spot on.

I think the difference is though, is that Hoddle and Gullit and others were some of the best ball players of the last few decades. Their's were really long passes than long balls, as was at least some method to it. What we're seeing here is kick and rush stuff.

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I think this can primarily be seen yesterday was in the first half. Tuffey was about to take a quick passed goal kick to Piermayr, only for Butcher to come racing to the edge of his area screaming "Get it up the park! Get it up the park!". This just shows that it what he wants to see and doesn't have the courage in his players to play and to win. The problem is, most of these players are one HE brought in.

i was shouting the same as tel. Piermayr was a joke last night. his passing was shocking. it seemed every time he got the ball he passed it out of the park. will take it easy on him though as he is definately behind meekings, tokley, anybody really for the right back slot.

hope if we stay up that next year tel forgets about talking up the players. several people who dont go to football have asked me this year why does butcher talk about top six in the papers all the time when the team is bottom of the league. is bottom 3 our best position this year. dont think top six was ever on .

take a leaf out of county's book. even when they were 17 points ahead adams is very cautious in the press with the usual take one game at a time and see where we end up. looks like he ordered the players to say the same things as you will not see them talking winning league until it happens.

our players/ management this year talked top six top six top six etc etc

from what i have watched every week excluding the 1-0 win at home to hearts we would struggle to make the top six of the bottom six if you catch my drift.

we are a basement club, getting basement players.

sj were like us last season leaking goals and no threat up front. they brought in sandaza,sheridan,croft, and wright,mccracken, mackay at back.

afraid we will only ever get players that no one else wants.

i remember when butcher was talking about signing tade. i thought why is he alerting other clubs about to the fact we are signing this great player. truth is no on else was stupid enough to take him.

same as tansey, motherwell had a look at him but decided was not good enough.

sorry to go on about this but tel had scotlands best young player in his grasp- mackay steven but decided not to take the chance. the boy was desperate to stay at ict

he is now too good for united. watch him go next season down in england or even at the old firm.

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sorry to go on about this but tel had scotlands best young player in his grasp- mackay steven but decided not to take the chance. the boy was desperate to stay at ict

he is now too good for united. watch him go next season down in england or even at the old firm.

And he had a terrible injury record. So bad that when he played one non-competitive game (which he wasn't even able to finish), he was then out for months. Depsite this, ICT still offered him a pay-as-you-play contract. GMS was so hesitant about his ability to play any significant amount of games, that he turned us down. He had no interest, we must assume, for any team in the SPL and SFL1 to end up at Airdrie.

If we had signed him, he would probably have been in the treatment room and recupuration for most of the season. He'd then be coming back towards the end of a one-year contract with possibly some fine performances. I then suspect he'd reward that faith in him with a 'next season down in england or even at the old firm'.

ICT saw the talent. Saw the injury record (that was ongoing) but were still prepared to offer him a chance at SPL football by a play/pay contract to prove his fitness. It was absolutely the correct decision.

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Can you explain the logic in signing OTJ then? His injury record is every bit as bad if not worse. If the truth be told, aside from his one major injury at Liverpool GMS has played approximately 50 games over the past two seasons! Hardly injury prone?

My worry is clear: TB does not value players like GMS as they do not fit into his preferred playing mode. I like players like GMS because they play the game the way it should be. I will pay good money to watch players like this. I will pay nothing to watch hit and hope football. I am not alone.

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Sometimes you take a chance that a player better than what we had will get over his injury blight. Was OTJ a risk too far? Depends on what you think of the risk.

With GMS though, it wasn't a risk that he wouldn't stay fit. It was reality. He was going to be out for months had we have signed him. The fact is people wouldn't have come to see him play as he would have been on the sidelines getting treatment and recuperating. Also, he was offered a contract which he turned down.

It's not comparing like with like.

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You lot must be deluded. According to Alex everything is "working well" for ICT

No, sorry friend but you are the deluded one if you can take the statement your referring to and turn it into the statement your making. And just for you I'll reproduce my original below. Please note the word If at the beginning of my sentence.

If everything is working well with this team you can be assured SMEE will come along and throw a spanner in the works. I do wonder, considering he's forever telling us how he can't get to games due to children, how many performances he's actually seen.

Now, obviously you need help in the translation here so let me decipher.

If the world was black SMEE would say it was white.

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Sometimes you take a chance that a player better than what we had will get over his injury blight. Was OTJ a risk too far? Depends on what you think of the risk.

With GMS though, it wasn't a risk that he wouldn't stay fit. It was reality. He was going to be out for months had we have signed him. The fact is people wouldn't have come to see him play as he would have been on the sidelines getting treatment and recuperating. Also, he was offered a contract which he turned down.

It's not comparing like with like.

We'll agree to disagree.

I would have picked GMS over OTJ any time for reasons I have stated many times previously. Why is OTJ here? I know the answer and so do you. Not certain about the refusal of GMS to accept a contract. Take your word for it as I don't know. What I do know is that he accepted an offer from Airdrie and an offer from Dundee Utd.

You are also correct in stating that it is not comparing like with like. GMS has played almost every game for his club since he has signed for them over the past two seasons (nearly 50?), OTJ has played about a dozen (half as sub).

Don't get started on the comparable wage packets of either. As I understand it..........that's scary!

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