Jump to content

Is Butcher the Man for the Job?


jaggy

Recommended Posts

Ok TB and MM have thier contract extension in place. A lot of the current team, many on loan do not. Has TB taken the team as far as he can, or has the recent changes been part of a longer term plan. We have to bare in mind the budget he is working to, but then again so are other teams. What does TB have to do next season ( assuming we stay up) to be at least best of the rest like last season and not sliding backwards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He should get a chance to sort this team out over the summer. It will take a lot of sorting. After that I'd give him and Maurice Malpas until Christmas to prove they can take things forward. It's no use waiting till March/April to change a manager.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Above Hibs and only two points below Aberdeen (win the game after the split and we're above them - not easy but far from impossible). Like to compare transfer budgets with those two? Also, clear of relegation, with Dunfermline almost certainly having a bigger budget.

Of course you could point out that St Mirren have done well. In fact, what we did last season. If they don't manage to do the same next season, however, would it be fair of the Buddies to sack their manager? I think that would be very harsh of them, so naturally, it would be very harsh of us.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think so. Can Butcher account for Tade missing a sitter against St Johnstone or McKay hitting the post when clean through today? If we had won our last 2 games (which we easily could have done so) I reckon the responses towards Butcher would be overwhelmingly positive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he is the way forward, unless the team does not improve, but what annoys me is how long it takes him to make a sub!!! he always seems to leave it till the last 10mins. Against st. Johnstone, he left it too late for a sub to make a decent impact, and was basically the same today against hibs!

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FOOK aff with the talks of budgets etc. ICT NEVER needed them before....as we had teamspirit. and THAT is what we are missing now. I dont know if its because most of the team are on short term contracts or on loan...but NONE of them seem to be playing with any passion for the club. Most are mercinaries and would jump ship if they got an extra fiver in their wagepacket. Thats how i see it.

ICT strength lay in the camoradarie of the team......a few new faces every season...no wholsesale changes.....and it worked for us.....until tinkering terry came along. Well, i hate to say it...but i believe we have seen all we are going to see from him, i would be preparing for a survival scrap next season

  • Agree 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

all that butcher can account for is the tactics on a match day. not giving away soft penalties, not missing easy chances and not players getting sent off.

has been one of the most inconsistent seasons weve ever had. and personally id put that down to injuries. butcher hasnt been able to pick the same team over and over like last season or the season before which ultimatly led to a great promotion push and our joint highest league finish.

so i dont see how bringing in a new manager or management team would help matters i agree with pele if thing are worse next season then it should be cosidered but for me that would depend on injury situation and what butcher does with his resources then.

remember last time butcher was under pressure and we stuck with him. when we were in mid table obscurity in the 1st division. he got us promoted. ive alway taken pride in the fact that we done that and im also proud that butcher is the longest serving manager in the spl.

stick with him through the hard times and the good times will come

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

all that butcher can account for is the tactics on a match day. not giving away soft penalties, not missing easy chances and not players getting sent off.

has been one of the most inconsistent seasons weve ever had. and personally id put that down to injuries. butcher hasnt been able to pick the same team over and over like last season or the season before which ultimatly led to a great promotion push and our joint highest league finish.

so i dont see how bringing in a new manager or management team would help matters i agree with pele if thing are worse next season then it should be cosidered but for me that would depend on injury situation and what butcher does with his resources then.

remember last time butcher was under pressure and we stuck with him. when we were in mid table obscurity in the 1st division. he got us promoted. ive alway taken pride in the fact that we done that and im also proud that butcher is the longest serving manager in the spl.

stick with him through the hard times and the good times will come

Luke, I admire your optimistic view but have to disagree with some.

TB is responsible for the team he has assembled. He sourced them, he gave them contracts and he sets them out for every match. He is no different from any other manager in this regard as they all 'live or die' by their choices.

I don't necessarily believe that dismissal (even if we could afford it thanks to the new contracts awarded) is the right call but I do expect him to be scrutinised in what he chooses to do. Blind faith is all very well but....

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

all that butcher can account for is the tactics on a match day. not giving away soft penalties, not missing easy chances and not players getting sent off.

has been one of the most inconsistent seasons weve ever had. and personally id put that down to injuries. butcher hasnt been able to pick the same team over and over like last season or the season before which ultimatly led to a great promotion push and our joint highest league finish.

so i dont see how bringing in a new manager or management team would help matters i agree with pele if thing are worse next season then it should be cosidered but for me that would depend on injury situation and what butcher does with his resources then.

remember last time butcher was under pressure and we stuck with him. when we were in mid table obscurity in the 1st division. he got us promoted. ive alway taken pride in the fact that we done that and im also proud that butcher is the longest serving manager in the spl.

stick with him through the hard times and the good times will come

Luke, I admire your optimistic view but have to disagree with some.

TB is responsible for the team he has assembled. He sourced them, he gave them contracts and he sets them out for every match. He is no different from any other manager in this regard as they all 'live or die' by their choices.

I don't necessarily believe that dismissal (even if we could afford it thanks to the new contracts awarded) is the right call but I do expect him to be scrutinised in what he chooses to do. Blind faith is all very well but....

the way i see it is the defending has been very naive this year. and thats because our first choice right back is 19, and centre back is 20. and alot of the season shinnie has played left back who is also 20 the only real experieced head we have at the back is tokely. now i believe that because butcher had no real choice but to go with young players because older more experienced players in the 'prime' of their career cost money. if butcher had more financial backing then yes i would be frustrated at the defending and his choice not to sign and experienced defender but he doesnt so im happy that we look like we will stay up this year and im satisfied with how butcher has done this season with injuries, suspensions etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason why we have such young inexperienced player playing in these positions is down to Butcher. For example, whilst I'm not certain he would have started every game but, Grant Munro was allowed to leave and has been outstanding for County this season. Even being suggested he could win First Division POY. Appreciate it's not the same standard but there is little difference from the bottom of the SPL and top of the first for me. How good would it have been for these young kids to play with a real solid pro like Grant?

Also don't buy the finance part either. TB could have signed cheap back up goalie and used the money being paid to JT (big money by our standards) on someone who could play every week. Was a replacement for Ryan Easson high on your list of priorities? No, not on mine either.

There have been some really strange decisions made by TB and they were his alone.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Terry brought these guys in...so must have thought they were up to the job. How many of Terrys purchases have been a match/an improvement on what we already had? I think Johnny Hayes is one of the very few sucsess stories, but i cant recall if it was even terry who brought him in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason why we have such young inexperienced player playing in these positions is down to Butcher. For example, whilst I'm not certain he would have started every game but, Grant Munro was allowed to leave and has been outstanding for County this season. Even being suggested he could win First Division POY. Appreciate it's not the same standard but there is little difference from the bottom of the SPL and top of the first for me. How good would it have been for these young kids to play with a real solid pro like Grant?

Also don't buy the finance part either. TB could have signed cheap back up goalie and used the money being paid to JT (big money by our standards) on someone who could play every week. Was a replacement for Ryan Easson high on your list of priorities? No, not on mine either.

There have been some really strange decisions made by TB and they were his alone.

i see where your coming from on grant. he is one of the nice guys and a top pro aswell. but i think butcher expected to have more experience resigning. there was duff which he didnt. money grabbing t*wat he is. i speculate that he had a gentlemens agreement with hogg. but hes hardly been around the chaging rooms this season to offer his help to the youngsters and the same with jones.

we have 4-5 realy experienced heads

tokely, esson, foran, jones, hogg are all realy experienced player we arnt short of experience because imo they are 5 definate starters when fit but jones and hogg have been out for almost all of the season and havnt been there for the youngsters which shifts alot of responsibility to the other 3 with one being a keeper he can only realy help the defenders. if jones and hogg wernt injured for most of the season perhaps they youngsters would have had more help and possibly done better. i dont know perhaps grant would have helped but im not going to dwell on it.

personally i think its brilliant having tuffey. a cheap back up keeper could have left us with someone like chris smith (god forbid) but we have tuffey who imo is just as good as esson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Terry brought these guys in...so must have thought they were up to the job. How many of Terrys purchases have been a match/an improvement on what we already had? I think Johnny Hayes is one of the very few sucsess stories, but i cant recall if it was even terry who brought him in?

id say tuffey

foran

cox

gillet

golobart

tansey

tade

dorans

meekings

A.shinnie

tade

and davis have all been good signings.

its not just about signings hes brought shane, ross, shinnie and morrison all through from the youth set up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having JT is brilliant............if we can afford it. I don't think we can.

Think Grant would have been more than useful this season. Seen him play three times and he has been outstanding. I think we are entitled to dwell on his departure. No problem when guys who have served us really well are allowed to move on (with dignity) because someone better has come on the scene. This is not the case.

Cheers.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Terry brought these guys in...so must have thought they were up to the job. How many of Terrys purchases have been a match/an improvement on what we already had? I think Johnny Hayes is one of the very few sucsess stories, but i cant recall if it was even terry who brought him in?

id say tuffey

foran

cox

gillet

golobart

tansey

tade

dorans

meekings

A.shinnie

tade

and davis have all been good signings.

its not just about signings hes brought shane, ross, shinnie and morrison all through from the youth set up.

Tuffey - Esson keeping out of the team and rightly so but when he gets his chance has been a bit dodgy, lack of match games obviously in that but also he's a very expensive commodity

Foran - Not in his glory days at all yet still played week in week out, in wrong positions and because of TB who you would think if he brought him in would know what was best

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - Dodgy at the best of times

Golobart - Scored the best own goal ever and has inconsistency written all over him

Tansey - IMO one of the worst players we've ever signed

Tade - Headless chicken and if you compare how many goals he's scored to how many guilt edged chances he's missed then it adds up to a poor player

Dorans - Injured

Meekings - Liability

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - No interest in playing FOR us (e.g. the mentality and history of the club but then again why should he) and poor a lot of the time

Younger players - yes he has brought them in....to sit on the bench or get 5-10 mins a game or the rare ineffective start

Poor signing, sorry LOAN, players I think

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As regards whether Butcher has a good eye for a player, here are his signings by transfer window according to Wikipedia and Soccerbase. Apologies for those I've missed. I've listed Foran, Cox, Hayes, Duff (controversial, I know!), Gillet, Hogg, Andy Shinnie and loanees Golobart and Davis as hits. That's not very many, considering it's been three years...

January 2009 (Gatheussi, Morais and Mihadjuks were all Brewster signings)

Richie Foran - HIT at least until this season, now club captain

Eric Odhiambo - JURY OUT hugely inconsistent but certainly got a few goals. Now playing for Denizlispor in Turkey

Summer 2009

Nauris Bulvitis (loan) - JURY OUT a regular at centre back in div 1 but loan not extended beyond end of season. Now back in Latvia playing for Spartak Jurmala

Lee Cox - HIT only 18 when signed but a regular in midfield for two seasons. Left in January 2012 for Swindon Town for about £50,000

Robert Eagle - MISS flattered to deceive in midfield. Now playing for Lowestoft Town

Stuart Golabek - JURY OUT clearly not as good as he was in his first spell, but was solid enough at left back

Jonny Hayes - HIT even in the SPL, he is still our biggest attacking threat

Dani Sanchez - JURY OUT infuriating at times, but definitely showed flashes of ability. Now at Wellington Phoenix in the Aussie A-League

Dan Stratford - MISS mediocre midfield player. Back in the USA playing for West Virginia University

Stuart Duff (loan in November 2010) - JURY OUT only played a few games before returning to Aberdeen

Summer 2010

Gil Blumenshtein - MISS hopeless Israeli midfielder with more hair than ability. Now playing for Hapoel Ramat HaSharon back in Israel

Stuart Duff - HIT solid but unspectacular midfield player who gave us versatility and depth. Now playing for Kazakhstan side Kairat

Kenny Gillet - HIT missed much of last season injured but has looked good for the most part this year

Chris Innes - JURY OUT experienced reserve centre back, but clearly past his best. Now at Arbroath

Kevin McCann (loan) - JURY OUT started really well but injury-prone. Now at Livingston

Jonny Tuffey - JURY OUT certainly a good backup keeper to have around but has played only a handful of games

January 2011

Aaron Doran (loan later made permanent) - JURY OUT looked great initially, but injured for the majority of this season

Chris Hogg - HIT when fit, our best centre-back. Cruciate injury has kept him out since November

Alex MacDonald (loan) - MISS - just one goal and no better than anyone else we had available

Summer 2011

Tom Aldred (loan) - MISS struggled in his first few games, then threw a hissy fit when dropped

Aiden Chippendale (loan) - MISS didn't look anything special and his loan wasn't extended past January

David Davis (loan) - HIT added drive quality to our midfield - now a first team regular at Wolves!

Roman Golobart (loan) - HIT some dreadful blunders but several MOTM performances and in the running for CTO's player of the year

Billy McKay - JURY OUT might come good, but 1 goal in 18 games is a woeful return

Josh Meekings - JURY OUT a lot of naive defending but he is still young. Long throws are useful!

Thomas Piermayr - JURY OUT decent in patches, but rash at times and picks up a lot of bookings

Andy Shinnie - HIT after a hideous start he was in stunning form when he broke his foot

Gregory Tade - JURY OUT nine goals are a plus but is either very good or very bad

Greg Tansey - JURY OUT a regular in the team but so far has not lived up to expectations (except when playing Dunfermline)

Owain Tudur Jones - JURY OUT cursed by injury this season

January 2012

Claude Gnakpa - JURY OUT a few bright flashes but rarely looks bothered

Steve Williams (loan) - JURY OUT looked good initially but made scapegoat for Rangers hammering and out of favour since

Sam Winnall (loan) - JURY OUT but has barely got a chance since joining

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tuffey - Esson keeping out of the team and rightly so but when he gets his chance has been a bit dodgy, lack of match games obviously in that but also he's a very expensive commodity

Foran - Not in his glory days at all yet still played week in week out, in wrong positions and because of TB who you would think if he brought him in would know what was best

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - Dodgy at the best of times

Golobart - Scored the best own goal ever and has inconsistency written all over him

Tansey - IMO one of the worst players we've ever signed

Tade - Headless chicken and if you compare how many goals he's scored to how many guilt edged chances he's missed then it adds up to a poor player

Dorans - Injured

Meekings - Liability

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - No interest in playing FOR us (e.g. the mentality and history of the club but then again why should he) and poor a lot of the time

Younger players - yes he has brought them in....to sit on the bench or get 5-10 mins a game or the rare ineffective start

Poor signing, sorry LOAN, players I think

or

Tuffey - great back up to esson one of the best no 2's in the league

Foran - gave us 2 very good seasons up front with rooney was key in our promotion push

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - mr composure

Golobart - shakey start but has proved to be a great young centre half

Tansey - mr consistent week in week out still young can only improve

Tade - a threat no matter what

Dorans - had a sinsilating 6 month loan has another year to comback and perhaps replace hayes

Meekings - 19 years old can only improve had a great start

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - a man with so much ability proven by the fact hes playing premiership and was brilliant for us

and out of the players hes brought through gavin morrisons the only player that hasnt played 30+ games

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tuffey - Esson keeping out of the team and rightly so but when he gets his chance has been a bit dodgy, lack of match games obviously in that but also he's a very expensive commodity

Foran - Not in his glory days at all yet still played week in week out, in wrong positions and because of TB who you would think if he brought him in would know what was best

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - Dodgy at the best of times

Golobart - Scored the best own goal ever and has inconsistency written all over him

Tansey - IMO one of the worst players we've ever signed

Tade - Headless chicken and if you compare how many goals he's scored to how many guilt edged chances he's missed then it adds up to a poor player

Dorans - Injured

Meekings - Liability

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - No interest in playing FOR us (e.g. the mentality and history of the club but then again why should he) and poor a lot of the time

Younger players - yes he has brought them in....to sit on the bench or get 5-10 mins a game or the rare ineffective start

Poor signing, sorry LOAN, players I think

or

Tuffey - great back up to esson one of the best no 2's in the league

Foran - gave us 2 very good seasons up front with rooney was key in our promotion push

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - mr composure

Golobart - shakey start but has proved to be a great young centre half

Tansey - mr consistent week in week out still young can only improve

Tade - a threat no matter what

Dorans - had a sinsilating 6 month loan has another year to comback and perhaps replace hayes

Meekings - 19 years old can only improve had a great start

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - a man with so much ability proven by the fact hes playing premiership and was brilliant for us

and out of the players hes brought through gavin morrisons the only player that hasnt played 30+ games

Tade - A threat... to all Caley fans sanity

Tansey?! Are you serious??? I cannot for the life of me see how he is a good player!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tuffey - Esson keeping out of the team and rightly so but when he gets his chance has been a bit dodgy, lack of match games obviously in that but also he's a very expensive commodity

Foran - Not in his glory days at all yet still played week in week out, in wrong positions and because of TB who you would think if he brought him in would know what was best

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - Dodgy at the best of times

Golobart - Scored the best own goal ever and has inconsistency written all over him

Tansey - IMO one of the worst players we've ever signed

Tade - Headless chicken and if you compare how many goals he's scored to how many guilt edged chances he's missed then it adds up to a poor player

Dorans - Injured

Meekings - Liability

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - No interest in playing FOR us (e.g. the mentality and history of the club but then again why should he) and poor a lot of the time

Younger players - yes he has brought them in....to sit on the bench or get 5-10 mins a game or the rare ineffective start

Poor signing, sorry LOAN, players I think

or

Tuffey - great back up to esson one of the best no 2's in the league

Foran - gave us 2 very good seasons up front with rooney was key in our promotion push

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - mr composure

Golobart - shakey start but has proved to be a great young centre half

Tansey - mr consistent week in week out still young can only improve

Tade - a threat no matter what

Dorans - had a sinsilating 6 month loan has another year to comback and perhaps replace hayes

Meekings - 19 years old can only improve had a great start

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - a man with so much ability proven by the fact hes playing premiership and was brilliant for us

and out of the players hes brought through gavin morrisons the only player that hasnt played 30+ games

Tade - A threat... to all Caley fans sanity

Tansey?! Are you serious??? I cannot for the life of me see how he is a good player!

And just to add Gnapka and Winnall. TB brought them in, why not play them? Because he knows he's made mistakes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

or

Tuffey - great back up to esson one of the best no 2's in the league

Foran - gave us 2 very good seasons up front with rooney was key in our promotion push

Cox - Arguably a match for Black, no complaints there

Gillet - mr composure

Golobart - shakey start but has proved to be a great young centre half

Tansey - mr consistent week in week out still young can only improve

Tade - a threat no matter what

Dorans - had a sinsilating 6 month loan has another year to comback and perhaps replace hayes

Meekings - 19 years old can only improve had a great start

A.Shinnie - Great player who took a while to find his stride but injured unfortunately

Davis - a man with so much ability proven by the fact hes playing premiership and was brilliant for us

and out of the players hes brought through gavin morrisons the only player that hasnt played 30+ games

This is pretty much the polar opposite of reality.

Tuffey - agreed, good back up. Nothing more.

Foran - Yes he was good in the First Division, but this isn't the First Division. He is crap in this league, you know, the league with the good players?

Cox - A poor mans Ian Black. Not a match at all.

Gillet - Was good, then he got injured (I think) and he's been crap since.

Golobart - Not convinced at all.

Tansey - Mr consistently crap. I struggle to see what he takes to the team.

Tade - A threat to our teams ability to remain in this league. Can't finish a fish supper.

Dorans - A poor mans Hayes. Scarcely a replacement.

Meekings - A ticking timebomb. Too slow, can't defend, and always good for a red card. Always.

A. Shinnie - Crap start but has improved. The question is, what's he going to be like when he comes back?

Davis - Doesn't play for us anymore... But when he was here, he could beat entire midfields on his own when he wanted to.

Also to address the topic... HE'S HAD THREE YEARS!!!! He's relegated us, promoted us from the worst First Division in recent memory and unsuccessfully attempted to rebuild from "losing" most of the ageing core of the team. Does he have to be photographed taking a dump on the club crest before some folk on here turn on him?

Edited by Jay_7
  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. : Terms of Use : Guidelines : Privacy Policy