Dear Mr Cameron,

[Alex MacLeod]

Lets put something in perspective here. Rangers Oldco own one share in the SPL. Rangers Oldco want to transfer that share to Newco. The SPL will debate and decide if that share can be transferred. The administrators of Oldco have a right, as the holders of the share, to attend and vote at any meeting of SPL chairmen. Its not about a vacancy. There is no vacancy at present. Its about the transferral of a share.

[Naelifts]

And my tuppence worth....................................

Dear Sir/Madam,

Can I through this email add my weight to the

argument to prevent Rangers re entering the SPL. It would appear that ,

across the country, there has never been such depth of feeling over any

other issue. And the voices are pretty much unanimous. We, the supporters,

will not tolerate any support for a Rangers bid to stay in the highest

league. It is debateable whether they should be allowed to ply there trade

in any senior league. I will not be appearing at Caledonian Stadium again if

this is allowed to proceed.

Please vote NO. We pay the wages..............we deserve to be heard

Roddy McClean

Peebles

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Glasgow City Rangers have announced ther new strip for the SPL next season :

[Plookeyes]

Hi I've been a season ticket holder for a few years and I'm seriously considering not reapplying if Caley Thistle vote to allow this 'newco' into the SPL.I cannot improve on what has been written here, I just want the board to know my feelings as one of the little people.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

[CaleyD]

Any chance we can keep this thread to sensible/prudent contributions only please.....struggling as it is to try and get through it to log/detail people's thoughts/views/opinions etc as it is.

Feel free to start a new dedicated "let's rip the p*sh" thread for the many jokes/images doing the rounds if you so wish.

Cheers Mun

[Proctor]

I also sent an email to Kenny Cameron last night. It was roughly along the same lines as the one I sent to the supporters trust/posted on here with a few more points.

[gordieict]

I agree its a no to the Newco but do appreciatte that the club is in a difficult position as they have a difficult enough job to balance the books as it is. I am not aware what the full financial implications are of saying no to the newco are, could they put ICT and other clubs to the wall? Very difficult.

Edited June 15, 2012 by gordieict

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

This thread is a bit like a long winded do***entary. It needs the intermittent injection of light relief in the form of an advertisement break. Proctor says it all in post no 90 - just copy and paste.

[Proctor]

Here is the email I sent to Mr Cameron. As you can see its slightly altered from the one posted on here earlier but thought I would add it in case there was any other valid points etc.

Dear Mr Cameron

I am a Caley Thistle fan writing to express my opinions on a Rangers Newco. I am of the opinion that a new version of Rangers should under no cir***stances be voted into the SPL.

While I appreciate that you have a huge decision on your hands and that you have probably received a number of emails on the subject, I feel it is only right that I contact you personally with my thoughts and to plea to you to vote NO to Newco Rangers.

I have contacted the ICT supporters Trust with a similar message as well as expressed my opinions on calythistleonline.com.

From an ICT perspective I feel you should not vote for a newco for the following reasons.

Football is still fundamentally a sport. While there has often been a clash between commercialism and football; this is the reason the SPL scores are reported in the sports section of the news and not at the same time as the FTSE 100. To let someone (in this case a football club) off for cutting corners in order to achieve commercial gain eliminates any notion of ICT being a sports team and Scottish football being a contest. Dwaine chambers was a big name in his sport but was still banned from competing for breaking the rules.

Surely allowing Rangers Newco into the SPL would have an adverse effect on the reputation of Scottish Football abroad? This would make Scottish Football look low-rent which for a league with a number of International TV Deals could have a negative impact on the reputation of ICT and other clubs overseas as a result.

Inverness Caledonian Thistle had to jump through a number of hoops to get into the SFL and even more to get into the SPL by sacrificing two clubs with passionate independent support and going to great expense to meet stadium criteria. Many figures at the club have worked hard over the years (the late Jock McDonald for example). Our neighbours Ross County are upgrading their stadium as we speak to play in the SPL. Why should a Newco automatically enjoy the privileges of SPL membership others have had to go to great expense to achieve?

Inverness Caledonian Thistle have always tried to live within their means and remain debt free. It could be argued that trying to do things the right way has meant the club has struggled to compete with teams who spend more and are in debt as a result. ICT voting Rangers Newco back into the SPL would mean the club are being hypocritical and devaluing their own good ethics. Why should the club go through the annual frustration of not being able to hold on to their top players when other teams that have effectively cheated can keep theirs and achieve higher league positions and cup runs? Why should members of the board such as yourself spend so long trying to balance the books when others are less scrupulous?

The television deal with SKY is often used as an excuse to ensure Rangers stay in the SPL. In my opinion Scottish Football should not rely on television money as TV is a fickle industry. It’s possible that if TV ratings for the SPL or football in general decreased SKY could pull the plug regardless of the presence of the Old Firm? British Professional Wrestling has never fully recovered from being pulled from ITV by Greg Dyke in the late 1980’s; this was a TV sport that famously got higher ratings than the FA Cup Final that soon after disappeared from the airways. Football clubs should ensure that they can survive without this money in the long term as one day it may not be there.

I would also like to point out there has been no guarantee that SKY would pull the plug completely on the SPL TV Deal should Rangers not be in the league. I also feel that Scottish football would still appear on TV without the Old Firm. After all SKY show football leagues with less appeal than ours such as the Australian Hyundai A-League and other fringe sports like Elite League Ice Hockey.

I fear that if ICT voted for Newco Rangers and fans of the club found out, there could be a backlash and a decrease in support which I fear the club could not afford. I fear this may not just come from our own supporters. I have spoken to a good friend of mine who is a Celtic Season ticket holder and a member of a Celtic supporter’s club. He has informed me that supporters clubs of many SPL teams are planning boycotts of the grounds of clubs who vote for Newco. I am unsure on how accurate or widespread this is but I feel the club may suffer in terms of attendances if this were to happen.

Both halves of the Old Firm have expressed interest to leave the SPL which shows a disregard for the wellbeing of other clubs in Scotland. Why should these clubs be sympathetic to them? A few years from now when Rangers are in a better position there is nothing stopping these clubs from saying the same thing again. The SPL clubs (ICT included) should try and ensure they can survive without the Old Firm regardless of how difficult this is. I would rather see ICT playing in a lower league and living within their means than see them being subsidy junkies in the SPL.

Having only one half of the Old Firm in the SPL will make it easier for ICT and other SPL teams to renegotiate voting rights and distribution of wealth. This would mean if/when Newco Rangers reach the SPL things are a lot fairer than before. With Newco Rangers automatically allowed into the SPL I feel this would be difficult.

Finally, making a Newco Rangers begin life in the Third Division may be a once in a lifetime chance to show how difficult it is for a team to survive out with the alleged land of milk and honey that is the SPL and to ensure that things change for the better down the pyramid. For a club like ICT who have had recent stint out with the SPL and may very well find themselves in that situation again, I feel this is vital as it will impact on the club's future.

I appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion on the matter and I also understand that you are privy to information regarding the club and the Newco situation that fans such as myself are not. I hope that you will make the right decision as chairman of the club, I have every confidence that as a businessman and as a man who as always tried to do whats best for the club and it's fans that you will. I do not envy you having to make the decision but I genuinely feel you and the other SPL chairman have a chance to make a real step forward in Scottish football.

Yours sincerely

James Proctor

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

No need for an "advert break" - just a pause fer applause :clapping:

[12th Man]

Well said proctor,

Its a sport and should be based on honesty and integrity, not profiteering.

If any clubs from the EPL run up depts and get kicked out does that mean the SPL will take them in as they may have a large fan base and can make a bit more cash?

What happens if Rangers stay in the SPL and finish in 12th place, new rules to avoid them getting relegated ?

The reputation of Scottish football is at risk if they stay in the league.

[TopSix]

This is in the Scotland on Sunday - SPL decision, ESPN, Sky... http://www.twitlonger.com/show/hsgrdu

Football shouldn't be about television coverage. It should be about community.

I've read Naelifts comment he posted in this thread a few times now and given it more thought. I'm going to agree with him. If a newco gets a vote in favour, count me out completely too.

[CaleyD]

The NewCo do not get a vote.

The SPL share still belongs to the OldCo, and it is they who would get a vote....and in that regard it would now be the Liquidators who would cast that vote.

There is an argument that the SPL share should be withdrawn from the OldCo, but it's not straight forward and very much falls into the realms of "interpretation" of the SPL Articles of Association.

[dougal]

Dear Mr Cameron

This will be the most important vote this club has had to make since the votes in 1993

Now in them days the existing fans were clearly shafted resulting in a very large numbers of stayaways which still has repercussions to this day hence our average attendance

Call it a warning from history but I sincerely hope the club has learnt from the catastrophic mistakes from the past and vote a 100% NO to re-admitting a Newco to the SPL

The last thing this club needs is to increase it's number of refuseniks all be it for a totally different reason

I've not emailed the club this but if CaleyD could read it in it's entirety at the next supporters trust get together with the club I would be very grateful

Regards

Dougal

[CaleyD]

Due to the sheer volume of responses then any thoughts of reading messages/emails in full to anyone is just not feasible.

All e.mails received have and will be circulated to everyone on the Trust Board and the club.

I have also taken a note of the points raised on this thread and they too will be documented and circulated in bullet point fashion.

If people wish their points to be noted individually then they need to be sent us via e.mail to admin@ictst.co.uk or letter to ICT Supporters Trust, Tulloch Caledonian Stadium, Stadium Road, Inverness, IV1 1FF. The reason for this is that it's very difficult for us to credit individual comments to anonymous communications, which is what forum posts are classed as. Whilst I hold a position on this forum and on the Trust Board it is not possible for me to share any personally identifiable information (identifying each comment as being from a unique person) between the two as I would be in breach of the DPA.

Not trying to be awkward or difficult (if anything it is more work for me, but that is fine), but when it comes to presenting a case then saying we have 100+ letters/e.mails carries far more weight and credibility than saying we have a thread on the forum with 100+ posts. Not an opinion/stance I agree with, but these things are what they are and I'd rather spend time discussing the points themselves than the source/validity of the points.

It's vitally important that every single fan who has an opinion one way or the other takes the time to contact us properly. Not only to ensure we can present the fullest picture possible of the fans thoughts and feelings on this matter, but so that the club can make a decision whilst in possession of as much information as possible.

Please do not sit back and do nothing because you think someone else will have said all you want to say....the numbers are every bit as important as the thoughts and opinions.

[roby]

Reading some off these posts makes my blood boil. Are we meant to be i c t supporters or what ?This threatening not to renew your season tickets unless our chairman votes against the newco is shameful .Regardless the rights and wrongs of the rangers fiasco we are supposed to be Caley jags fans and the true ones like myself who renewed mine 2 weeks ago will back the club whichever way they decide to vote . Seems to me that many off our so called loyal fans are looking for an excuse to jump ship !

[Alex MacLeod]

Reading some off these posts makes my blood boil. Are we meant to be i c t supporters or what ?This threatening not to renew your season tickets unless our chairman votes against the newco is shameful .Regardless the rights and wrongs of the rangers fiasco we are supposed to be Caley jags fans and the true ones like myself who renewed mine 2 weeks ago will back the club whichever way they decide to vote . Seems to me that many off our so called loyal fans are looking for an excuse to jump ship !

Nothing to do with jumping ship. If you read all the posts of those with the same opinion as myself you'll see that, if sporting integrity is not upheld and the newco forced to apply the the SFL, then we are turning our back on football. As I've said on a few post I cannot bring myself to support a sport that allows lawbreaking and tax dodging to go unpunished. If I dont pay my taxes I'll be severely punished. The same must apply to any business.

[12th Man]

The NewCo do not get a vote.

The SPL share still belongs to the OldCo, and it is they who would get a vote....and in that regard it would now be the Liquidators who would cast that vote.

There is an argument that the SPL share should be withdrawn from the OldCo, but it's not straight forward and very much falls into the realms of "interpretation" of the SPL Articles of Association.

Thats bizarre, a business that no longer exists has the right to cast a vote on the welfare of a club that it sold its assets to, Rangers has been wound up and like all the money it owed no longer exists.

[CaleyD]

Rangers has not (yet) been wound up. It is currently going through the liquidation process and that can take months...even years.

The share is effectively only worth one pound, and it can only be transferred to someone else with the SPL's permission....so as an "asset" it is of little value to the OldCo and I can't imagine they would want to incur the additional expense of a legal battle to hold on to it. After all, they have no legal interest in the NewCo, and as such should have no interest in whether they receive the share or not. In fact, if I were a creditor of the OldCo I would be asking serious questions about why the Liquidators would even spend time (and thus the creditors money) in attending any SPL meetings.

The ONLY reason the SPL (and we are talking the SPL Board, not the Member Clubs) would have for not recalling the share is to give the NewCo an extra vote, and that stinks to high heaven, IMO.

So, yeah, it is all very bizarre...but for slightly different reasons than you might have first thought.

[+Feb82000]

or what about leting newco rangers in to spl next season but they will not be on the same money deal as last season

[Scarlet Pimple]

12th MAN,----- IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT (I.E SAME OLD, SAME OLD) BUT IT'S ABOUT THE STATUS QUO WHEN THAT IS CONVENIENT. Right?

MEANING IF THE RULES CAN BE CONVENIENTLY SIDETRACKED TO ALLOW THE 'GERS TO ENTER THE SPL, THEN WHY NOT USE THEM ALSO TO ENSURE THAT THE DEVIANT CLUB IS ALLOWED TO SWAY THE RESULT IN IT'S FAVOUR.

If you see what I mean-- and THATt is bizarre and no mistake.

The whole thing is a sickening crock and the clubs must see this .

I think that if they vote in favour of allowing Rank Rotten Rangers into the SPL then they are about to commit suicide and I can't put it any more plainly than that. For sure, nothing will ever be the same again for the vast majority of the fans and if Scottish Football is currently on a downward slide then such a vote may well complete the job.

[TopSix]

Graham Spiers tweeted earlier: "If current vibes are correct then Celtic, Dons, Hibs, D Utd, M'Well + St Mirren all set to vote RFC to Div 3. A dire fate - but a just one.”

I sincerely hope ICTFC also vote to send them to Division 3.

[Gabby]

12th MAN,----- IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT (I.E SAME OLD, SAME OLD) BUT IT'S ABOUT THE STATUS QUO WHEN THAT IS CONVENIENT. Right?

MEANING IF THE RULES CAN BE CONVENIENTLY SIDETRACKED TO ALLOW THE 'GERS TO ENTER THE SPL, THEN WHY NOT USE THEM ALSO TO ENSURE THAT THE DEVIANT CLUB IS ALLOWED TO SWAY THE RESULT IN IT'S FAVOUR.

If you see what I mean-- and THATt is bizarre and no mistake.

The whole thing is a sickening crock and the clubs must see this .

I think that if they vote in favour of allowing Rank Rotten Rangers into the SPL then they are about to commit suicide and I can't put it any more plainly than that. For sure, nothing will ever be the same again for the vast majority of the fans and if Scottish Football is currently on a downward slide then such a vote may well complete the job.

I actually thought it was a very sensible idea.

However, I will be more interested to see the draw when it comes out to see if 12th Team has a home game on the same weekend as Celtic or Dundee Utd.

[CaleyD]

Graham Spiers tweeted earlier: "If current vibes are correct then Celtic, Dons, Hibs, D Utd, M'Well + St Mirren all set to vote RFC to Div 3. A dire fate - but a just one.”

I sincerely hope ICTFC also vote to send them to Division 3.

The SPL don't have the power to "send them to Division 3". They only have the power to say yes or not to entry to the SPL and what happens if the result is a No vote is entirely out of SPL hands.

The misinformation coming from some quarters really doesn't do much to help understanding of the situation.