3rd or 1st

[bauhaus]

Now that we are sure Newco/Servco/The Rangers will definately not start in the SPL ( RIGHTLY ) and the beaks who run the game seem determined to shoe horn them into the first Division. I am not sure this would be the best thing for Scottish football.

If we are going to punish them, we punish them good, and I would hope for the benefit of our football. The 3rd division is where I think they should be, and their attendances would re-invigorate the leagues from the bottom up. The boost in money to these lower league clubs would be tremendous, and they would still have something to play for, with promotion still possible through the play-offs, in the belief that this new Rangers would gain promotion at a canter.

If they were to be flushed into the first division, they would still be certs for coming back up, but the rest of the first division will have no way of promotion with their being no play-offs.

The SPL clubs have made the decision that they will be ok without the money Rangers help generate, so we should demote them to the third, sort out the spl monies distribution between clubs, and re organise the leagues before they get back up.

[+DoofersDad]

It's not a question of punishment. This is a new club - it is the old club and those who are responsible for all the wrong doing who need to be punished. The point is simply that a new club should enter an established league system at the bottom and work its way up. If they are good enough they will get into division 1 in 2 years time. If they are not good enough a club that is good enough will move into division 1 instead. Meanwhile it would be quite wrong to deny a place in the the first division to a team that is good enough, who play by the rules and who therefore have earnt that place. It is exactly the same argument as that which says they have no right to be in the SPL.

[+Fraz]

It's not a question of punishment. This is a new club - it is the old club and those who are responsible for all the wrong doing who need to be punished. The point is simply that a new club should enter an established league system at the bottom and work its way up. If they are good enough they will get into division 1 in 2 years time. If they are not good enough a club that is good enough will move into division 1 instead. Meanwhile it would be quite wrong to deny a place in the the first division to a team that is good enough, who play by the rules and who therefore have earnt that place. It is exactly the same argument as that which says they have no right to be in the SPL.

^^^ Wot he said.

[Downinthedumps]

It's not a question of punishment. This is a new club - it is the old club and those who are responsible for all the wrong doing who need to be punished. The point is simply that a new club should enter an established league system at the bottom and work its way up. If they are good enough they will get into division 1 in 2 years time. If they are not good enough a club that is good enough will move into division 1 instead. Meanwhile it would be quite wrong to deny a place in the the first division to a team that is good enough, who play by the rules and who therefore have earnt that place. It is exactly the same argument as that which says they have no right to be in the SPL.

Bollocks 3 rd division or nothing for the cheats

[Oddquine]

It's not a question of punishment. This is a new club - it is the old club and those who are responsible for all the wrong doing who need to be punished. The point is simply that a new club should enter an established league system at the bottom and work its way up. If they are good enough they will get into division 1 in 2 years time. If they are not good enough a club that is good enough will move into division 1 instead. Meanwhile it would be quite wrong to deny a place in the the first division to a team that is good enough, who play by the rules and who therefore have earnt that place. It is exactly the same argument as that which says they have no right to be in the SPL.

But does that not mean Newco starting in the Southern League or Highland League or equivalents to get the required three years of audited accounts etc that every other team which applies to join the SFL is required to have...or alternatively, buying a Club in one of the other divisions and taking their place as Airdrie United did? Every other brand new team takes a minimum three years, unless they go the alternative route, to even get to the application stage, so Newco should be looking at a minimum of five years in the wilderness before hitting SFL1....which should be plenty of time to ensure that by then, Scottish Football has sorted itself out...and stopped running the whole of Scottish football for the benefit of two teams and the flaming TV..

[+DoofersDad]

It's not a question of punishment. This is a new club - it is the old club and those who are responsible for all the wrong doing who need to be punished. The point is simply that a new club should enter an established league system at the bottom and work its way up. If they are good enough they will get into division 1 in 2 years time. If they are not good enough a club that is good enough will move into division 1 instead. Meanwhile it would be quite wrong to deny a place in the the first division to a team that is good enough, who play by the rules and who therefore have earnt that place. It is exactly the same argument as that which says they have no right to be in the SPL.

But does that not mean Newco starting in the Southern League or Highland League or equivalents to get the required three years of audited accounts etc that every other team which applies to join the SFL is required to have...or alternatively, buying a Club in one of the other divisions and taking their place as Airdrie United did? Every other brand new team takes a minimum three years, unless they go the alternative route, to even get to the application stage, so Newco should be looking at a minimum of five years in the wilderness before hitting SFL1....which should be plenty of time to ensure that by then, Scottish Football has sorted itself out...and stopped running the whole of Scottish football for the benefit of two teams and the flaming TV..

You may well be right. I don't know enough about the rules to say whether they have actually have any right to apply for the SFL in the first place. All I am saying is that if they do then it has to be division 3 or not at all.

[IBM]

It's not a question of punishment. This is a new club - it is the old club and those who are responsible for all the wrong doing who need to be punished. The point is simply that a new club should enter an established league system at the bottom and work its way up. If they are good enough they will get into division 1 in 2 years time. If they are not good enough a club that is good enough will move into division 1 instead. Meanwhile it would be quite wrong to deny a place in the the first division to a team that is good enough, who play by the rules and who therefore have earnt that place. It is exactly the same argument as that which says they have no right to be in the SPL.

But does that not mean Newco starting in the Southern League or Highland League or equivalents to get the required three years of audited accounts etc that every other team which applies to join the SFL is required to have...or alternatively, buying a Club in one of the other divisions and taking their place as Airdrie United did? Every other brand new team takes a minimum three years, unless they go the alternative route, to even get to the application stage, so Newco should be looking at a minimum of five years in the wilderness before hitting SFL1....which should be plenty of time to ensure that by then, Scottish Football has sorted itself out...and stopped running the whole of Scottish football for the benefit of two teams and the flaming TV..

You may well be right. I don't know enough about the rules to say whether they have actually have any right to apply for the SFL in the first place. All I am saying is that if they do then it has to be division 3 or not at all.

The last sentence says it all!

[Oddquine]

From what I see online, Peterhead has said they will also vote no to the SPL/SFA/SFL attempt to pretend that Newco is still Rangers and so important to Scottish football that it will die without their presence in the higher echelons.

Only need one more, I think, and the leagues of the self-interested who don't give toss about the good of Scottish football is dead in the water.

Fingers crossed that we get that one, at least.

Edited to say ........It appears that our completely incompetent SFL hierarchy have no idea how many votes are required to dump Newco to where they can do least damage. It appears that they are taking lawyers advice to help them interpret their own rules.

Best thing Scottish Football could do, imo, is sack every one of the current adminstration in the SPL, SFL and SFA........and start again with people who can actually do thinking!

Edited July 2, 2012 by Oddquine

[CaleyD]

Edited to say ........It appears that our completely incompetent SFL hierarchy have no idea how many votes are required to dump Newco to where they can do least damage. It appears that they are taking lawyers advice to help them interpret their own rules.

To be honest, I wouldn't expect them to have a rule to fit what is being asked of them. Like just about any business or organisation I have ever been involved with, different levels of vote are required for differing types of proposals and the SFL will be no different. I imagine that is where the confusion lies with regards to the required number of votes needed.

[+DoofersDad]

I'm looking forward to the Queen's Park / Rangers derby. Will it played at Loftus Road?

[Oddquine]

Edited to say ........It appears that our completely incompetent SFL hierarchy have no idea how many votes are required to dump Newco to where they can do least damage. It appears that they are taking lawyers advice to help them interpret their own rules.

To be honest, I wouldn't expect them to have a rule to fit what is being asked of them. Like just about any business or organisation I have ever been involved with, different levels of vote are required for differing types of proposals and the SFL will be no different. I imagine that is where the confusion lies with regards to the required number of votes needed.

Why not? Is the job of management not to foresee eventualities and prepare for them....or are the Scottish football authorities as incapable of seeing past the ends of their collective noses as our politicians are? It certainly seems so.

Given the number of clubs which have been in trouble over the years.....why is there still no sensible agreed unified policy among the SPL, SFA and SFL as to dealing with the fall out resulting from any financial troubles, which even the thickest fans (bar Rangers ones) could see was going to arise at some stage. Some of us have read stuff on the internet which gave pause for thought, even over the Murray years.

Everything to date has been done on the hoof as a reactive remedy to an individual Club problem as it occurs, which then appears to become a precedent, even if not appropriate in all circumstances...and nobody has had the foresight to say....."what if" and prepare for scenarios worse than anything they have seen yet. I'm not really blaming the Clubs involved in the various boards......because they are guided by those who are paid by them to do thinking and extrapolating and who laughingly call themselves administrators....but who would be hard pushed to administer a drink each to everybody having a party in a brewery full of alcohol on tap.

The whole current situation is a complete failure by the administrators of the various football authorities to do what is right, rather than what is expedient.

[Kirishima]

It's getting to the point that I think the fans should look at demanding resignations. The attitude of the staff in the SPL, SFL, SFA is so far off the mark of its shareholders (the fans) and the game itself that it is time they, not the clubs, began to feel the heat that the SPL chairmen were under.

[Oddquine]

I see Green is still not giving up on the SPL as he has been lobbying Chairmen.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2829872

Hope he hasn't convinced those who have already said they are voting no to change their minds. If newco get voted in now, there will be ructions.

"Rangers have clearly got some input into the decision-making process and the team and I are going to present to the SPL chairmen on Wednesday". There is no Rangers....oldco is currently "in the league" in liquidation with no team and no money.....and newco isn't in the league at all......or even a member of the SFA, come to that.......and for clubs which don't think they are the reincarnation of God......does that process alone not take seven weeks to get all the various paperwork checks done?:

[bauhaus]

Oddquine I think you gave yourself the answer to asking why thy didnt have a plan for this. The SFA/SPL/SFL have hardly been the best of buddies, and all were probably burying their head in the sand. I do hope that if The Rangers get out of this mess and end up in the SFL somewhere, these useless administrators do not put new rules and laws in place which would mean the next ones to go into admin dont suffer from the new regulations, as they will likely only end up in admin due to The Rangers no longer being in the league.

They have all chased the money, all clubs, and stretch their clubs to try and get success. Everyone of the top clubs in our country have had money problems, and hey look at Europe, Real Madrid in over £1000 million of debt, Man Utd were £ 860 MILLION in debt etc etc etc.

Without the SKY money Scottish football will fall down a casm, teams will have to cut back huge amounts of money, teams will become poorer, fans will grumble even more about the lack of quality, and soon it will be Celtic looking at englandshire lower leagues, whereas the rest will lose players to the englandshire non leagues even.

It is a very very brave decision from the spl chairmen, for sporting integrity, which is likely to have very serious consequences for our national league, and the possibility of 2 or 3 other clubs going into administration too. 3rd, 2nd and 1st divisions should be the beneficiaries of Oldco mismanagement, at least here's hoping.

[Ten4]

Its anybodys guess I personally would ban them for a year altogether but we could

Keep them in the SPL ? but give them a 40 point deduction & transfer embargo thence a chance of the last minute penalty scenario

to avoid relegation ?!

OR stick them in div1 also with a 40 point deduction & transfer embargo thence a chance of the last minute penalty scenario to get promotion ?!

or can someone just toss a coin to decide on something for godsake !!!!!!!!!!!

[Kirishima]

Craig Burley in Daily Record has really lost the plot. Slagging players off, saying Lafferty will be "found out" in Switzerland, saying Whittaker is only an engine, no more, and saying it's time the "muppets" stopped listening to the players...not clear who he means when he tals about muppets. Long and short he thinks the SFL Div 1 is the only choice and good for everyone.

Is this guy for real?? I know it's the Daily Ranger but even still!!!

[StockholmSyndrome]

Craig Burley's not the sharpest tool in the box. Neither are the editorial staff of the Daily Ranger. However, they're all worthy of Mensa membership compared to the idiots who are supposed to be in charge of Scottish football and who have let it get in such a mess. I wonder if Neil Doncaster's brain cell ever gets lonely?

[+bughtmaster]

Craig Burley's not the sharpest tool in the box. Neither are the editorial staff of the Daily Ranger. However, they're all worthy of Mensa membership compared to the idiots who are supposed to be in charge of Scottish football and who have let it get in such a mess. I wonder if Neil Doncaster's brain cell ever gets lonely?

no it doesn't know any differently

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

So a majority is required in the SFL ballot. Dundee have already reported they have been told they cannot vote and 11 of the other 29 clubs have already suggested no to SFL1 so SFL3 looks more likely unless some new ruling/deal is written/brokered. Will be intreresting to see how the teams from the different divisions vote.

[Alex MacLeod]

If Dundee are exempt from voting the surely the runners up in each of the playoffs should also be exempt as they would automatically go up a place. By that reckoning 14 votes needed to dump Sevco to the third.

[PaderbornCaley]

If Dundee are exempt from voting the surely the runners up in each of the playoffs should also be exempt as they would automatically go up a place. By that reckoning 14 votes needed to dump Sevco to the third.

With Airdrie saying they will not vote, then this seems likely.

[CaleyD]

Surely it could be argued that every SFL club has a vested interest? In fact, of all teams then Dundee (assuming they are the ones going up) have the least interest in the vote!!!

I know it's SFL v SPL, but strange that Dundee would be deemed to have a vested interest, but Rangers (Old Co) didn't and had a vote on whether or not to submit their successors.

[Laurence]

I noticed in this mornings Daily Record the following

The Headline

'OUT'

After 120 years in the top flight of Scottish football, Rangers are Out

I take issue with this because the club that applied for membership of the SPL has never kicked a ball

Do The press not realise this is a new company with no history, and no debts. and no records

I think and it is just my opinion, the NewCo should send all the parifinallia of the discredited and bancrupt earlier Rangers to the Kelvingrove museum. Just like Milton Keynes Dons did with all the relics they got from the old Wimbledon. They are now on display in the Merton Borough Town Hall.

A New start a new day and forget the past Daily Record. It's history.

Hanging on to diccredit past will do the Rangers no good at all.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Laurence

[PaderbornCaley]

I noticed in this mornings Daily Record the following

The Headline

'OUT'

After 120 years in the top flight of Scottish football, Rangers are Out

I take issue with this because the club that applied for membership of the SPL has never kicked a ball

Do The press not realise this is a new company with no history, and no debts. and no records

I think and it is just my opinion, the NewCo should send all the parifinallia of the discredited and bancrupt earlier Rangers to the Kelvingrove museum. Just like Milton Keynes Dons did with all the relics they got from the old Wimbledon. They are now on display in the Merton Borough Town Hall.

A New start a new day and forget the past Daily Record. It's history.

Hanging on to diccredit past will do the Rangers no good at all.

I agree - the problem is about half of the journalists in the central belt are fans of the club formerly known as Rangers. Most of the Daily Record journalists will also be fans of the club formerly known as Rangers. Spin, spin, spin!

[Yngwie]

With a Rangers in the 3rd division, do you think the Record will devote just a paragraph or two to their match reports like they always have done for every other 3rd division team?