Royal Mail

[PullMyFinger]

it's the "English rule" I can't stomach for whoever we get in Westminster Scotland is only a geographical area.

Mmmm... that sounds very much like the way the Highlands would fare under "central belt rule" in a separate Scotland. At least within the UK, the Highlands is one of several peripheral areas across all four constituent parts.

That's why I can't see why anyone up here would want to vote to have their every single affair dictated by a central belt administration which is already showing alarming signs of wanting to centralise things on itself - such as through single Police and Fire services and the freeze on Council Tax which reduces the autonomy of locally elected councils.

I'd rather be "dictated to" by a Scottish Government elected solely by the peolple who live in Scotland than a "British one". In the last 50 years what has the UK government done for the Highlands?

AAhaa Mr Bannerman, well said. Exactly my way of thinking.

Central belt rule would see the Highlands as their waste area, bribe the residents to go along with their plans for windfarms, nuclear waste dumping, Pylons and all the nasties that would make money and prosperity for the lowlands.

Ruin our natural beauty, our scenic heritage. Scar the lands with millions more fir trees instead of the deciduous forests of old.

Ignore the fact ( as Westminster has done) that we have some of the potentially best deep water harbours around the UK that have never ever been fully utilised.

Flood more Glens and dam them to enable more pipeline exports of our wonderful water.

Oh yes, Scotland would be rich and prosperous but only as far as the Caledonian Canal............. If that!!

As for being a Democracy no chance, a dictated to Republic I fear. The signs have been emanating from this Scottish Parliament for some time now.

Be very careful for what you wish for.

I would like to think Scotland will someday be self ruled but the people and structure to do this successfully are far in the future.

Too wee, too stupid, too poor.

I'm sh1tting bricks reading that Hammerhouse script.

[PaderbornCaley]

There's a simple solution.

Independence for the Highlands and Islands. The Republic of the Highlands and Islands.

We have the wind technology and the oil.

Angus Macneil or Charles Kennedy as our Teasoch.

Simples

[+bughtmaster]

We could include the Islands too...............

[+DoofersDad]

An Independent nation of the Scottish Highlands and Islands would require a separate National Football League of the Highlands and Islands. And as annual champions that would mean European football every year for ICT! Bring it on!

[Charles Bannerman]

An Independent nation of the Scottish Highlands and Islands would require a separate National Football League of the Highlands and Islands. And as annual champions that would mean European football every year for ICT! Bring it on!

Might a smaller nation like that not only be eligible for one European place? Now that would make Highland derbies interesting!

More seriously though, you raise a very interesting question there. SNP dogma for the last 40 years has dictated that you take the chunk of land that most of the oil sits off and conveniently use that as the fundamental of a case to make it independent.

OK Alex... let's follow that through to its logical conclusion and concoct the mantra "It's The Highlands' Oil" (although I admit Shetland also have a good shout there!) and hold a referendum instead about the very far North of the British Isles splitting off and grabbing all the oil revenues. Surely the SNP couldn't fault what is more or less a carbon copy of their own policy. And after all, Pictland was an independent nation for centuries before the relatively transient entity of Scotland was even thought of.

This is what I can't accept about the SNP's position. The constitutional situation within the British Isles has evolved in various stages for almost 2000 years and has largely been a process of aggregation into a larger and more efficient unit. But what the SNP seem to want to do is selectively to take the intermediate stage called Scotland and turn the clock back to revert to it.

One other advantage of an independent Highlands (which I'm not for one minute calling for but am merely using to illustrate a basic fallacy of the SNP position) is that we wouldn't have the burden of west central Scotland and all its social, health and sectarian problems either.

So "what if" (and I don't believe for a minute that this will happen) we get a "yes" vote in the 2014 separation poll? A few years down the line the people of the Highlands realise that they are fed up being dominated by the central belt whose social and health problems they are also subsidising.

Presumably President Salmond would have to feel equally obliged to agree to a referendum within the oil rich North?

See what I mean about it being absolutely crazy for any Highlander to vote yes in the forthcoming Salmorendum?

Just a footnote prompted by something I read in a paper yesterday. The SNP used to make a lot of the "arc of prosperity" until Ireland and Iceland went totally bellyup. Now that just seems to leave Norway... oil rich Norway..... where the price of a litre is - wait for it - £1.70!!

Edited September 3, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[dougiedanger]

AAhaa Mr Bannerman, well said. Exactly my way of thinking.

Central belt rule would see the Highlands as their waste area, bribe the residents to go along with their plans for windfarms, nuclear waste dumping, Pylons and all the nasties that would make money and prosperity for the lowlands.

Ruin our natural beauty, our scenic heritage. Scar the lands with millions more fir trees instead of the deciduous forests of old.

Ignore the fact ( as Westminster has done) that we have some of the potentially best deep water harbours around the UK that have never ever been fully utilised.

Flood more Glens and dam them to enable more pipeline exports of our wonderful water.

Oh yes, Scotland would be rich and prosperous but only as far as the Caledonian Canal............. If that!!

As for being a Democracy no chance, a dictated to Republic I fear. The signs have been emanating from this Scottish Parliament for some time now.

Be very careful for what you wish for.

I would like to think Scotland will someday be self ruled but the people and structure to do this successfully are far in the future.

Have you been listening to Laurence, bughtmaster?

On the prospect of ruining our "natural beauty," you could argue that centuries of mismanagement by absentee landlords have already done that. The idea that the Highlands is an unspoiled landscape is a complete myth. Every square inch of it has been exploited and altered, and the people have largely been cleared from it, which has allowed the complete disfiguration of what must have once been one of the world's most beautiful landscapes.

[Charles Bannerman]

On the prospect of ruining our "natural beauty," you could argue that centuries of mismanagement by absentee landlords have already done that. The idea that the Highlands is an unspoiled landscape is a complete myth. Every square inch of it has been exploited and altered, and the people have largely been cleared from it, which has allowed the complete disfiguration of what must have once been one of the world's most beautiful landscapes.

I don't think I would go as far as that, but Landlordism has got a lot to answer for. On the other hand a certain amount of it is a direct consequence of the Feudal System which was seriously in decline by the early/mid 18th century and was really needing knocked on the head. But unfortunately the 45 rebellion - which was one of the direct consequences of that Feudal System - caused that knocking on the head process to be rather more ruthless than might otherwise have been the case.

That's a really complicated one where I would actually place much of the root cause of the Clearances and the aftermath of Culloden on the Feudal System whose demise these events secured. The big problem there was that the landlords, apart from the ones who forfeited their estates after the 45, were allowed to carry on regardless.

I'm not too sure that the Highlands have been all that badly disfigured compared with many of the country's industrial areas and quite frankly if it's away in the back of beyond and if the local residents aren't really bothered, I don't actually see too much of a problem with a bit of disfigurement in the name of economic progress.

Where I do get a bit cheesed off over this issue is when you get these militant hillwalkers taking offence at us developing our own natural assets because this means that they don't have such a nice view when they're out on their weekend wanderings.

They seem to expect miles and miles of b****r all to be completely retained solely for their occasional aesthetic gratification.

However, the system of land ownership in this country is indeed absolutely wrong.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[+bughtmaster]

AAhaa Mr Bannerman, well said. Exactly my way of thinking.

Central belt rule would see the Highlands as their waste area, bribe the residents to go along with their plans for windfarms, nuclear waste dumping, Pylons and all the nasties that would make money and prosperity for the lowlands.

Ruin our natural beauty, our scenic heritage. Scar the lands with millions more fir trees instead of the deciduous forests of old.

Ignore the fact ( as Westminster has done) that we have some of the potentially best deep water harbours around the UK that have never ever been fully utilised.

Flood more Glens and dam them to enable more pipeline exports of our wonderful water.

Oh yes, Scotland would be rich and prosperous but only as far as the Caledonian Canal............. If that!!

As for being a Democracy no chance, a dictated to Republic I fear. The signs have been emanating from this Scottish Parliament for some time now.

Be very careful for what you wish for.

I would like to think Scotland will someday be self ruled but the people and structure to do this successfully are far in the future.

Have you been listening to Laurence, bughtmaster?

On the prospect of ruining our "natural beauty," you could argue that centuries of mismanagement by absentee landlords have already done that. The idea that the Highlands is an unspoiled landscape is a complete myth. Every square inch of it has been exploited and altered, and the people have largely been cleared from it, which has allowed the complete disfiguration of what must have once been one of the world's most beautiful landscapes.

dougiedanger, please why would I be listening to Laurence, These are my own views as a Scotsman who loves the Northern Highlands.

Charles I have climbed many a mountain, fished many rivers and lochs admired the views, the wildlife and the fresh air. I have seen many changes in my 74 years and feel entitled to my groat's worth to try and stop further desecration and exploitation of our homeland.