Small crowds? Little wonder!

[ferben1994]

theres a goddam celtic shop on the high street and i cant even get me my 5 year old and 7 year old correct fittin topsstrips from the part time portacabin at the stadium. maybe if they got that right it would provide much needed revenue?

just a thought.

[ferben1994]

cant beleive i posted that twice.!! d'ya reckon it'll generate twice the income lol!!

[ferben1994]

also cant beleive wrong thread also. thats it am off the beer.

[CaleyD]

Bridge Ender/12th Man,

I am taking on board what you are saying and I'd be the first to admit that we're not (yet) getting everything right with Caley Jags Together (Trust name is no more).

We're very much in a period of transition right now and part of the process is dividing up the organisations activities and assigning directors to them with a view that they then recruit from the wider membership for assistance...so we're already moving along the road suggested in terms of getting more people involved and once these groups get a proper handle on what they are needing then we will be able to go out there with more specific requests from our side of things.

I know the club are also looking at doing something similar and Caley Jags Together will have a more formal link in with that.

There's a reason why we are where we are and why it proves so tough to get fan assistance. As frustrating as I sometimes find it I know it's not going to all be sorted over night and actually see it as a 3 to 5 year project to get back to anything like the "working together" culture we had pre-SPL when fans really did feel a part of the club instead of just feeling like a (poorly treated) customer.

We all have a part to play in that, even without having to be asked, even if it's just sharing a story/post on Facebook/Twitter or acknowledging the positive changes from time to time. e.g. We've got 3 players who have been called up for international duty next weekend yet the threads on here about it have very little comment on them. That should be a big deal for the fans of any club and we should all be shouting about it every chance we get.

[caleyboy]

Bridge Ender/12th Man,

I am taking on board what you are saying and I'd be the first to admit that we're not (yet) getting everything right with Caley Jags Together (Trust name is no more).

We're very much in a period of transition right now and part of the process is dividing up the organisations activities and assigning directors to them with a view that they then recruit from the wider membership for assistance...so we're already moving along the road suggested in terms of getting more people involved and once these groups get a proper handle on what they are needing then we will be able to go out there with more specific requests from our side of things.

I know the club are also looking at doing something similar and Caley Jags Together will have a more formal link in with that.

There's a reason why we are where we are and why it proves so tough to get fan assistance. As frustrating as I sometimes find it I know it's not going to all be sorted over night and actually see it as a 3 to 5 year project to get back to anything like the "working together" culture we had pre-SPL when fans really did feel a part of the club instead of just feeling like a (poorly treated) customer.

We all have a part to play in that, even without having to be asked, even if it's just sharing a story/post on Facebook/Twitter or acknowledging the positive changes from time to time. e.g. We've got 3 players who have been called up for international duty next weekend yet the threads on here about it have very little comment on them. That should be a big deal for the fans of any club and we should all be shouting about it every chance we get.

Caley D - I applaud your dedication and efforts - I really don't know where you get the time to work - maybe your too well off and don't need to!

You probably remember this type of back-up has been tried before, unfortunately without much success (Commercial and Management). Maybe it wasn't set up correctly or didn't have the right people with the necessary experience or maybe even didn't have the Board's assistance. Who knows, I wish you luck BUT unfortunately we don't have 3 to 5 years to sort this mess out. That's why we need to invest in experience at this stage - OK I hear what you say about not having any money but if this deterioration continues we will have even less.

The fans haven't caused this problem, it's bums on seats the club needs and we need them sitting on them NOW! I know you feel I am negative but sorry here I go again - the director's are responsible for EVERYTHING at this club and I cretainly haven'd heard ANY of them coming up with ideas on what they are doing to rectify the problem, have you?

What does the average fan want?

• An exciting team (OK, not always possible because of financial restraints but one that gives everything they have)
  
• Value for money
  
• An entertaining match day experience so they look forward to their Saturday afternoon every second week
  
• The feeling of being wanted by their club (the tinks seem to be good at this)
  

Not easy I know but all areas the Directors should address sooner rather than later.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

What does the average fan want?

• An exciting team (OK, not always possible because of financial restraints but one that gives everything they have)
  
• Value for money
  
• An entertaining match day experience so they look forward to their Saturday afternoon every second week
  
• The feeling of being wanted by their club (the tinks seem to be good at this)
  

Not easy I know but all areas the Directors should address sooner rather than later.

Interesting points you make. My father is a season ticket holder at ICT and has been for many seasons and I have heard him make all four of those points above (as well as a few others) more and more over the last couple of seasons. Of those I believe points 3 and 4 are those that are his biggest grumble.

Although I am overseas and only get to attend 1 or 2 games a season I do hear more and more that the County experience is a better overall product at all levels for the spectator. Not one which I wish to experience myself but they must be doing some things better.

Therefore if that is the case then it is to the club I look to embrace the new competition they have been given for 'bums on seats' in the SPL and show that they can offer a better product both on and off the pitch....and maybe to achieve that some will have to consider the greater need and not personal gratification.

I watch from afar with interest....

[CaleyD]

Caley D - I applaud your dedication and efforts - I really don't know where you get the time to work - maybe your too well off and don't need to!

You probably remember this type of back-up has been tried before, unfortunately without much success (Commercial and Management). Maybe it wasn't set up correctly or didn't have the right people with the necessary experience or maybe even didn't have the Board's assistance. Who knows, I wish you luck BUT unfortunately we don't have 3 to 5 years to sort this mess out. That's why we need to invest in experience at this stage - OK I hear what you say about not having any money but if this deterioration continues we will have even less.

You're right, we don't have 3 to 5 years to sort things out and I wasn't suggesting we do. Things have to start changing (for the better) now....but it will take that length of time, IMO, to get back to where we were in terms of the relationship between the club and fans that existed prior to our entry to the SPL and started going down hill from then on.

How long it will take to reverse the trend in terms of falling numbers...I have no clue. It needs to happen quick, and it needs to happen in conjunction with the above.

I know I keep on about the lack of money, and part of the turnaround needs to be looking at ways to fund certain things. I don't buy into the theory that Directors should exist to keep dipping in to their own pockets to finance things and in fairness to some of our Directors/Ex Directors, they have done more than their share in that regard. Yes, you could argue that they are merely funding their own mismanagement, but like it or not, football clubs in their current form are not sustainable businesses....and whilst doing everything else that needs done, a sustainable model which doesn't rely on handouts also needs to be put in place. (I'll save you the lecture on my thoughts about the need for community business models as I'm not sure a single post can be that long)

The fans haven't caused this problem, it's bums on seats the club needs and we need them sitting on them NOW! I know you feel I am negative but sorry here I go again - the director's are responsible for EVERYTHING at this club and I cretainly haven'd heard ANY of them coming up with ideas on what they are doing to rectify the problem, have you?

There comes a point when you have to stop playing the blame game and accept that if you want change then you have to play your part in bringing it about. Have the club made poor decisions in the past?...sure. Have the fans been less than supportive at times?...sure. Does that change where we are at now and what needs to be done?...not in the slightest.

What does the average fan want?

• An exciting team (OK, not always possible because of financial restraints but one that gives everything they have)
  
• Value for money
  
• An entertaining match day experience so they look forward to their Saturday afternoon every second week
  
• The feeling of being wanted by their club (the tinks seem to be good at this)
  

Not easy I know but all areas the Directors should address sooner rather than later.

I would, personally, whittle that list down to just 2 points....the last two.

Ultimately the Board have very little control over the team, how they play and what they do. They can only provide a pot of money which is used to employ management and players, and beyond that it falls to the manager to make it as successful as possible within the budget he has. Levels of success and entertainment are subjective, and the board would be chasing their tail and getting involved in things they are not expert at (or expected to be expert at) if they were to try and interfere with that to any great extent.

The second point...get points three and four right and point two takes care of itself, so let's not get hung up on it as a separate issue.

Beyond your list, the club need to be looking at the non fan/match/football related activities which are needed to help support everything else. I don't know what goes on in terms of functions/conferencing etc on a day to day basis, so I'm in position to comment on where that is at, but it's not an area which should be ignored....far from it.

I can't/wouldn't try to speak on behalf of the Directors of the club...but I think the fact that they have realised and accepted that things are broken is an important first step. The increased communication and working relationship with Caley Jags Together also indicates a willingness to go looking for reasons to why we are where we are and ideas on how to change it.

That's only the very start of the process, and yes I do know for a fact that there's more to come. I'm not in a position to give any detail on what that it is, and that's partly down to not having full facts/details on the next step...but one is definitely in the pipeline and I fully agree with and support what I know of it so far.

As much as some people might like to accuse me of having "crossed over" or being a "poacher turned gamekeeper"....I can assure you that I absolutely share all the same frustrations and disappointments as every other fan. The difference for me now, as I have said, is that things are changing and instead of wasting time and energy on being angry and upset about it, I can now spend that time and energy doing things to try and change it....either through my involvement with Caley Jags Together, or directly with the club.

Yes, I do work (and need to), but I'm fortunate, I think, to work for myself and that allows me a lot of flexibility with my time. Wish I could do more, and if some rich person out there wanted to pay me to work full time for ICT then I would happily give up my other work...maybe I'll win the lottery instead!!!

In saying that, it's not about how much a person does, I would be happier seeing 1000 fans give 1 hour a month than I would seeing 10 fans giving 100 hours a month....because that would be the surest indication of all that the ICT Community (Club, Fans, City, Businesses) were getting things right and everyone was supporting the club/team.

All that aside....I think you, me and many others are saying we want to see much and such the same thing. I also accept that I am in a position where I'm seeing more day to day to convince me that the club board have turned a corner in terms of their approach/attitude to things and that news/message needs to be getting out there more in order to show others the same thing....point very much taken on board and will be fed back.

I guess what I really want to see from fans is a bit less of "the club should be doing...." and a bit more of "how can I be doing". Again, I accept that the club/Caley Jags Together need to facilitate that and that point has been taken on board also and will be fed back.

Anyway....off to hide as the "not at the game, but know everything must have been bad because we got beat brigade" will be out in full force and I find that more demoralising than anything else that's going on with the club just now.....!!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Is narcissism contagious ?

[MarkD]

I guess what I really want to see from fans is a bit less of "the club should be doing...." and a bit more of "how can I be doing". Again, I accept that the club/Caley Jags Together need to facilitate that and that point has been taken on board also and will be fed back.

"Ask not what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club"?

[Charles Bannerman]

"Ask not what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club"?

I think the guy who originally said that came to a sticky end not too long afterwards. I would beware book depositories and grassy knolls if I were you.

[Oddquine]

Is narcissism contagious ?

I dunno. Do you think you have been smitting others on here?

[CaleyD]

I guess what I really want to see from fans is a bit less of "the club should be doing...." and a bit more of "how can I be doing". Again, I accept that the club/Caley Jags Together need to facilitate that and that point has been taken on board also and will be fed back.

"Ask not what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club"?

I was thinking more along the lines of.....

"Let every opponent know... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of our club."

[bigman]

All we need is a team on the field that excites, re Pele style of football. It might come but I can see the system we use means at the end of the season we have to start again.

I don,t want to harp on about it, but over the bridge we now have ex caley players being the foundations of a winning team.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Is narcissism contagious ?

I dunno. Do you think you have been smitting others on here?

If anybody loved your post then they are clearly narcissitic - whereas I am an anti-narcissit:

The concept of antinarcissism was proposed by Francis Pasche in 1964. The context was a theoretical debate seeking initially to define narcissism and then to describe its role in psychic development.

The difficulties, complexities, and, for some, the aporias of narcissism led to two antithetical choices. Some abandoned the notion of primary narcissism, giving a fundamental role to the primary object-relation (this was true of the English school, Michael Balint, and John Bowlby). Others, like Paul Federn and Béla Grunberger, were led to separate narcissism from the libido. This, it seemed to them, was necessary in order to account for the ubiquity of narcissism in mental life. But this was not the opinion of Francis Pasche, who chose to reintroduce a duality, or even a dialectic, into the concept of narcissism itself (1965).

Both narcissism and antinarcissism were characterized for Pasche by an object and a direction. The object was the same for both: the ego. The direction, however, was not the same: centripetal for narcissism, centrifugal for antinarcissism. Antinarcissism could be thought of as a centrifugal investment, in which the subject tends to be divested of the self, to give up their own substance and reserves of love, and to do this independently of any economic factors. In this sense, anti-narcissism is actually a manifestation of Thanatos, that is, of unbinding separation and dispersion, but not of aggressiveness.

There is a striking convergence between Francis Pasche's conception of antinarcissism and what Sándor Ferenczi called, in his final writings, the "altruistic drive" (1949, fragment dated 24 August 1930).

[+DoofersDad]

All we need is a team on the field that excites, re Pele style of football. It might come but I can see the system we use means at the end of the season we have to start again.

I don,t want to harp on about it, but over the bridge we now have ex caley players being the foundations of a winning boring team.

Sorted it for you.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

I think you mean 'altruistic drivel' ;-)

[Ten4]

Is narcissism contagious ?

You might not be a narcissist - but you are always mostly a nark!

Is that in the dickshoenorry?

[Oddquine]

Is narcissism contagious ?

I dunno. Do you think you have been smitting others on here?

If anybody loved your post then they are clearly narcissitic - whereas I am an anti-narcissit:

The concept of antinarcissism was proposed by Francis Pasche in 1964. The context was a theoretical debate seeking initially to define narcissism and then to describe its role in psychic development.

The difficulties, complexities, and, for some, the aporias of narcissism led to two antithetical choices. Some abandoned the notion of primary narcissism, giving a fundamental role to the primary object-relation (this was true of the English school, Michael Balint, and John Bowlby). Others, like Paul Federn and Béla Grunberger, were led to separate narcissism from the libido. This, it seemed to them, was necessary in order to account for the ubiquity of narcissism in mental life. But this was not the opinion of Francis Pasche, who chose to reintroduce a duality, or even a dialectic, into the concept of narcissism itself (1965).

Both narcissism and antinarcissism were characterized for Pasche by an object and a direction. The object was the same for both: the ego. The direction, however, was not the same: centripetal for narcissism, centrifugal for antinarcissism. Antinarcissism could be thought of as a centrifugal investment, in which the subject tends to be divested of the self, to give up their own substance and reserves of love, and to do this independently of any economic factors. In this sense, anti-narcissism is actually a manifestation of Thanatos, that is, of unbinding separation and dispersion, but not of aggressiveness.

There is a striking convergence between Francis Pasche's conception of antinarcissism and what Sándor Ferenczi called, in his final writings, the "altruistic drive" (1949, fragment dated 24 August 1930).

[clacher_holiday2]

No amount of 'match day experience' will ever stop the rot, whats possible anyway? Beyonce lookalikes and more mascots? It'll still be -10 degrees in the wind down the dump this winter, it'll take a hell of alot more to get folk in.

You know it wouldnt even make a difference giving seats away for a quid each, if there is no investment in the playing staff then why should the people of Inverness be expected to care about the club? Would there be a difference if Hayes, Tade etc were persuaded to stay on with contract offers, upto a year/6 months before their deals ended? This business of having players earn new deals is of no benefit to ICT when the new deals are being offered are by rival SPL clubs, if a player proves their worth with regards to a new deal they should be rewarded with one instantly, this last minute stuff just winds the fans up.

anything else is just re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic and i bet they had proposals, action plans and delegations for that aswell

Edited September 4, 2012 by clacher_holiday2

[Scarlet Pimple]

Ten4 -- 234 posts

IHE -- TEN THOUSAND posts...

No contest.

Duff gen from the Scarlet Pimple, illustrious descendant of the Pimpernel line and countless past generations of brilliant spys. Copyright material courtesy of Alexandre Dumas, Author Extraordinaire.

Watch this space for another sensational expose in the near future...............

[+Gringo]

Things have to start changing (for the better) now....but it will take that length of time, IMO, to get back to where we were in terms of the relationship between the club and fans that existed prior to our entry to the SPL and started going down hill from then on.

There's the answer, get back to where we belong and stop punching above our weight.

[CaleyD]

Things have to start changing (for the better) now....but it will take that length of time, IMO, to get back to where we were in terms of the relationship between the club and fans that existed prior to our entry to the SPL and started going down hill from then on.

There's the answer, get back to where we belong and stop punching above our weight.

Such a bad thing if we have a sustainable, well supported club that people want to be a part of?

[SMEE]

Are ICT really doing that bad relativley speaking? I mean the likes of the Edinburgh, Dundee teams, and the Aberdeen team, all have a hell of a lot more population than inverness has to draw on, but I would say their percentage of the population who attend their games wouldnt be any greater than ours. Do you know what i mean? For eg.....Aberdeen has 4.5 times the population of Invernesss....but i doubt they get 4.5 times the attendances that ICT do. Back when Aberdeen were sucsessful, they played to nigh on 24 000 for most home games, now....what is their average gate? Probably 1/3 of that

[40POCKETS]

.

. Back when Aberdeen were sucsessful, they played to nigh on 24 000 for most home games,

Don't think so. Average gate was about 14000.

[lukemackay]

Think he's talking about the 'good old days' not te calderwood days