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ICT v CELTIC - 25/08/12


CaleyD

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Minor correction - the game kicks off at 12:45.

Also, it appears that the link to ICT Official Website Highlights [Worldwide - Registration Reqd (free)] just redirects to ICT's main website. I think that they are just posting their highlights and interviews to their YouTube channel now. (http://www.youtube.com/OfficialICT)

Thank you for pointing that out....as you can see I put the thread up during the small hours as I knew I wouldn't have time this morning and forgot to change the time.

Yes, the highlights are all going on to our YouTube Channel, although they are on the Official SPL Channel first - http://www.youtube.com/splofficial

Old highlights are still on the official website, but we will be getting these moved over first chance we get (fairly sizeable exercise to get them all uploaded to YouTube).

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He asked the fans to get behind the team as they needed the twelfth man to kick in, a couple of embarrassed Come on Caley and then silence again. As well as the team having the worst performance of their season (they were all poor without exception) from minute one it was like being at a wake with a noisy party going on next door.

I don't think as a team we will be so nervous again, simple passes were going astray and players weren't doing their jobs well enough. Unfortunately that happens against Celtic sometimes. However, we are always going to be handicapped by having a third division support.

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He asked the fans to get behind the team as they needed the twelfth man to kick in, a couple of embarrassed Come on Caley and then silence again. As well as the team having the worst performance of their season (they were all poor without exception) from minute one it was like being at a wake with a noisy party going on next door.

I don't think as a team we will be so nervous again, simple passes were going astray and players weren't doing their jobs well enough. Unfortunately that happens against Celtic sometimes. However, we are always going to be handicapped by having a third division support.

Any chance you could lead the singing at Fir Park on Sunday then?

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Those two late goals, when Celtic had stopped playing, should not be allowed to detract from the fact that, for the first eighty minutes, we were an absolute embarrassment.

First up, the team selection was dreadful. We know Raven has struggled at right back. We know Sutherland has contributed nothing on the wing. Yet both started, while Nick Ross was stuck in a deep midfield role instead of on the wing. What does Morrison have to do to get a start?

I've no idea what the tactics were today. We appeared to be playing a shambles-0-1 formation from what I could see. Anyone who has watched Celtic the last 2 years knows Hooper drops deep into the space between midfield and attack - so most teams sit someone in front of the defence to counteract that. We didn't. So when he came deep, either our centre-half let him go, meaning he got the ball into feet and had time to turn and run at us, or the centre-half went with him, leaving Watt one on one with his partner (as for the second goal). The contrast to Ross County's performance against Celtic last week was striking. Derek Adams clearly had a tactical plan on how to make things difficult for their opponents. Terry Butcher just thought he'd put 11 players on the pitch and see what happened.

The third goal summed it up. Presumably the players got a bollocking at half-time, but none of them were switched on enough to interfere with what was a pretty simple set-piece trick. Frankly, I think it's because most of them didn't really care about whether we won or lost today.

Aside from Aaron Doran, none of our players looked like they wanted the ball...and Doran didn't use it that well when he got it. McKay was isolated as usual, but he failed to hold the ball up even when he got it into the channels or in to feet. The one time he got in behind, he wasn't quick enough to hold off the defenders. He's too small, he's too lightweight, he's not quick enough and he can't score...but apart from that, he's a top player.

Ross and Doran tried hard, at least; the former was clearly out of position. Andy Shinnie barely touched the ball, and had one of those days where it seemed like every decision he made was the wrong one. Is Sutherland blackmailing the manager with dodgy photos or something? I can't think of another reason why he is in the team. Draper might have got two goals, but for a big unit he was outmuscled and outfought a lot. He wasn't the only one who couldn't manage to complete 5 yard passes to unmarked teammates - there were a lot of others (what the hell do they do in training?) - but he was the most culpable. He also has the turning circle of a bus, and Celtic just passed the ball around him.

Our backline was so bad that they might have given me Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Raven was a catastrophe. He kept giving the ball away easily, kept being caught out of position, and kept being skinned. The centre-backs were also calamitous, particularly King, who was nutmegged within a minute by Hooper, and then was totally culpable for the second Celtic goal. Graeme Shinnie was the best of a bad bunch. Esson looked shaky at times, but I don't think he was culpable for any of the goals.

The only positive I can think of was the perfomance of Pepper as a sub, who was lively and keen to get involved...and whose through ball for Draper's second was the only piece of quality football we produced all day.

Lastly, Butcher should be censured for turning round and having a rant at the fans when we went 2-0 down. At that point we hadn't even managed to put three passes together, and there had been absolutely nothing to cheer - what does he expect? He should just be grateful that some of us (fewer and fewer by the week) are dumb enough to still pay through the nose to watch this utter dross.

Can you tell I'm angry?

Yeah you can tell and that is why I have to disagree with a lot of what you say. Sure we deserved to get beat today but to say that the players didn't seem to care is totally wrong. I thought the players did try and we simply got beat by the better team on the day. Losing the first goal early really killed us I think but to totally slate the players and management team as you have done, is just symtomatic of so many posters who cannot see any good in anything the team do.

I agree with you about Raven though, Meekings has to start next week along with Nick ross if he is fit. I actually think Sutherland was more involved today than in previous games but he seems to be really lacking confidence. I also thought the central defenders did not too bad, especially Warren in the second half but they do seem to have a tendancy to get caught square.

Final word on the crowd today, lack of home support is shocking. Don't want to hear the usual excuses from some posters, either you support the team or you don't and go to the games as otherwise, there will come a time when we have no team to support.

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A few younger/less experienced guys out there today who will never have played such a big team as celtic, so obvious there was going to be some nerves. Not helped by the absence of the captain who's job it would have been to calm the nerves and get players settled in to the match quicker. Just another example of how his actions in being red carded have effected us.

Yeah, not the best display, but as I said above, think that was down to a lack of leadership on the park. However, don't think it was as bad as some are making out. If this was last years squad then the heads would have gone down after two goals and we'd have shipped 6 or 7. I actually think at two down the team became more determined, and in their efforts to get forward and score we left ourselves open at the back and shipped another two goals. I also do not think we scored because celtic switched off, I don't actually think they did switch off, I just think at 4 goals down there was no reason for us to be nervous any more and we saw ICT doing what they have done in the first three games.

Say what you like about the performance, but I do not think it was in any way gutless, pathetic, embarrasing or any of the other things people have called it. We were simply outplayed by a better team for the most part and our guys deserve credit for not giving up and fighting it out to the end. Better to get -2 on the goal difference than -4.

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What did he say to the fans?

I think he was just gesturing the fans to make some noise.

Well done to the family section, they made more noise than the whole of the main stand and the standing section, for the last 10 mins.

Put the "singing" section to shame but thats not hard to do. The team needed the fans today and they did turn up but left there voices at home. Also hate to say County had 10 more fans than us at there game against Celtic

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I thought things had been looking positive so far. yeah...the team had a bad day at the office, that was evident from the goal in the first few mins. You cant afford that agaisnt the likes of Celtic. But hey, as i say, lets put it into perspective, it was Celtic it was against. If your to have an off day against anyone...it may as well be them. it could have been worse, and happened against the likes off St Mirren or St Johnstone etc. That would be far harder to bare

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poor but i tend to not judge the team too heavily on these games. butcher was naive imo for thinking a midfield of draper and ross could cope with celtic....although i know morrison isnt great, someone was needed to sit in front on the back 4. raven had a shocker and have to think meekings will start next week. shane again did not help the cause by giving the ball away constantly. messrs foran and otj antics certainly did us no favours today. anyways, onwards and upwards :)

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So after an excellent comeback against Hearts last week we got a totally hopeless performance today. As has been mentioned already, the two late goals leave only a mis-leading scoreline that does not reflect the drubbing it was. Our weaknesses at the back, middle and front were exploited by a makeshift Celtic team, that may be able to draw on talented youngsters like Watt, but in reality should never have proved to be the obstacle we allowed them to be. Devoid of any inspiration and invention, especially in the final third. Butcher and Malpas look like they have a massive job ahead, just to keep us in the SPL

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Nick Ross is too lightweight to play in the middle, Butcher had no other option though.

Gavin Morrison?

Not sure bout that. Messi, xavi, iniesta, are they big?

They have bigger builds than nick ross. Dont get me wrong i think ross is a good player but he needs to get some muscles so he doesnt get pushed off the ball as much

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I can't believe there's people trying to tell us that that was anything less than an embarresment. To me the result was not an important factor in the game and I'd have felt okay if the players had put the effort in and put some heart into the performance. They didn't. I've seen better Celtic teams come here and lose, but ICT were akin to a Third Division side today, meeting Celtic in the lower rounds of the cup.

Out of the whole squad, only really Pepper, Doran and Warren weren't hopeless, while a special mention must go to David Raven who was quite simply awful.

We've got a long hard season to endure ahead of us at this rate.

Edited by Renegade
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Nick Ross is too lightweight to play in the middle, Butcher had no other option though.

Gavin Morrison?

Not sure bout that. Messi, xavi, iniesta, are they big?

They have bigger builds than nick ross. Dont get me wrong i think ross is a good player but he needs to get some muscles so he doesnt get pushed off the ball as much

I wouldn't want nick to bulk up now. He's a neat and tidy player amd can pick a pass. He's naturally gifted, with a turn of pace to. So I'd argue that if he bulked up this could affect his overall game. Wouldn't want to risk it. Against Celtic he'll struggle to flourish. The whole team are virtually internationals so no need to worry about this result. Let's look to see how nick does against motherwell

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Not going to read any of the previous posts but this is how I saw it :

Positives / Excuses : Draper will play fer the shirt and so will Warren of the new boys - that is a goal difference of minus 2 rather than minus 4,5,6 or even 8. Pepper is one who will progress. It is still early days and perhaps some of the so called experienced newbies were taken aback by the experience. Perhaps "lessons" can be learned ??

CRITICISM: Neil Lennon must be laffing his feckin socks off at our predictability. His tactics tore us apart. Lets face it Butcher has till got the tactics, the selection and the formation WRONG. Why oh why would you ever put out a team at home to play a defensive 4-5-1 against Cellic and hold back - even Tinkervilee got the message to feckin press, feckin press and feckin press - we did the feckin usual against the Old Filth of losing goals at the feckin kick offs instaed of playing it ultra feckin tight - the goal at the start of the first half was ridiculous - and I wonder if ya noticed if we changed the feckin 1:1 marking at the next feckin corner kick.

Why the feck play Raven for an hour and then put on Meekings ???????????????????????????? What the feck were Warren and King defending like in the first half - was Warren actually asked to play well in front ?????????????? Where the feck was Nick Ross supposed to be feckin playing - he made space time and time again but never got a pass and why was he played so feckin deep ???????????????? Why oh feckin why do we sacrifice Shane as we do - he clearly aint a winger and he constantly lost position by his natural instinct to go inside ???????????? What role was A Shiñnie played in today as he should have had far more an offensive role ???????????? What a shift and effort from McKay but what a feckin waste as well.

I apologise to any happy clappers but if I (and others) as armchair managers can see these errors from game to game ????

Did Gavi have an Icelandic shirt on today - MORRISSON ??

Cant actually be fecked with the Smileys but what the feck was Esson doing at the second goal ??

And SORRY - but would it have been different with Tokely and Munro in centre defence and Draper and OTJ in front of them ??

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A few younger/less experienced guys out there today who will never have played such a big team as celtic, so obvious there was going to be some nerves. Not helped by the absence of the captain who's job it would have been to calm the nerves and get players settled in to the match quicker. Just another example of how his actions in being red carded have effected us.

Yeah, not the best display, but as I said above, think that was down to a lack of leadership on the park. However, don't think it was as bad as some are making out. If this was last years squad then the heads would have gone down after two goals and we'd have shipped 6 or 7. I actually think at two down the team became more determined, and in their efforts to get forward and score we left ourselves open at the back and shipped another two goals. I also do not think we scored because celtic switched off, I don't actually think they did switch off, I just think at 4 goals down there was no reason for us to be nervous any more and we saw ICT doing what they have done in the first three games.

Say what you like about the performance, but I do not think it was in any way gutless, pathetic, embarrasing or any of the other things people have called it. We were simply outplayed by a better team for the most part and our guys deserve credit for not giving up and fighting it out to the end. Better to get -2 on the goal difference than -4.

Good feckin post.

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Missed the first goal due to the police's idea of traffic "management" on a match day being to stop traffic coming off the bridge with the result that ther traffic was backing up almost to the Munlochy junction and I was in a queue for nearly 45 minutes and arrived 15 minutes after kick off. "Lucky b*stard" I hear you say.

I'm not too disheartened. Clearly there were weaknesses at the back and Celtic had more quality, but I felt 2 - 4 was a better reflection of the play than 0 - 4. Celtic never had spells were they were laying seige to our goal and to honest, never particularly threatened as much as one might expect the champions to do. They were just more clinical in front of goal.

But I don't think any of the ICT squad played particularly well. I've said it before and I'll say it again - it's not a lack of ability or passion, it is lack of confidence. To often there is either not the confidence to have a pop at goal or to take a man on. I thought that was particularly the case with Doran who, in many ways was about the best ICT player today. There were time that he controlled the ball well, slipped his marker and surged forward but then lacked the confidence to either drive into the box or play a more difficult but telling pass. Instead he would stop and look to play a simple ball to someone who was in no better position than he to do anything with it. At times there were players in good positions which he seemed unable to spot so don't know whether it is lack of awareness or lack of confidence I don't know, but he is someone who you feel could be a big player for us.

Again I thought that Billy Mackay put in a good shift but he needs to play in partnership with a bigger striker. I really would like to see him playing up front with Sutherland and I still fail to understand why Sutherland is played where he is. The poor lad's confidence looks shot to shreds and he is the obvious casulaty to make room for the return of OTJ and Foran (both of whom were badly missed today).

Raven looks as though he is going to struggle at this level and Meekings gave us a lot more options when he came on instead. The big disappointment for me was Andrew Shinnie who contributed little. I felt his work rate was poor and he seemed to be the one player who never pressured the opposition. Pepper showed much better attitude when he came on and whilst he was disposessed rather easily at times, he played a quality ball to Draper for the 2nd. Draper's composure for the 2 goals bodes well for the future. I was also encouraged by the willingness to play passing football even when 4 goals down and whilst the quality and cohesion in the side was a bit dissapointing, we will play worse and win this season.

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Awful defending, giving Esson little chance to stop the deluge. How can Butcher justify replacing the likes of Munro and Tokely with King and Raven is a complete mystery. They looked like what they are - lower division players out of their depth. And has been pointed out, with no real cover in front of them, the Celtic forwards ran them ragged, and you felt could have scored at any time. Almost a training ground exercise for them. The positives were that we did at times try to pass it and built a few good moves in midfield, but couldn't find any way to make it count - the only difference was when Draper went forward at the end and showed poor McKay how to get in and do something. Pepper looks promising, with a nice assist for the second goal. But all of that is wasted when you have a defence who are so naive. Tactically we didn't look set up to any solid gameplan, unlike Adams outfit last week. Which is chastening, and depressing.

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After the relative euphoria of last week's fighting comeback at Hearts, it was down to earth with a bang today, although the two well taken late goals eases the pain a bit. The defending was woeful for most of the game. Why on earth were they standing watching at the first goal instead of competing for the ball? King was mostly culpible I think, and he also got well skinned for the second goal. The whole defence was asleep for the third goal.

I've never really liked Meekings much as a full back (I can't get his desperate performance at home to Rangers at the end of Feb out of my mind), but I think he is currently a sounder option than Raven.

When do we expect to have Hogg back? Surely he will ousting King on today's performance.

Pass marks today from me only for Draper, Warren, McKay and, for the short while he was on, Pepper.

At least we didn't play hoof ball today, but giving the ball away to Celtic so softly on most occasions, was unfortunately just as damaging.

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Poorest performance against Celtic in a long time, I know he's taking pelters but Raven is just not up to it. Meakings or hurry back Cooper.

Okay I apprecaite it can be difficult to get a decent striker, we bought in all these lower league defenders, could we not have found some sort of semi decent striker.

I feel sorry for Billy Mackay, he puts a hell of a shift in but with little or no return.

I'm for giving Gavin Morrison a few starts as he puts himself about a bit, also give Pepper more of a runout on the wing, with Nick Ross looking to be out for a few games..

Cant get to down as many have said we dont expect much from a game against Celtic, but we made it so easy for them today. Stronger Celtic teams have been beaten by us or struggled to beat us (last minute winners etc)

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I think that tactically Terry gets it wrong almost every game. Not sure what he sees in training during the week, but the same criticism is levelled at the team every week. Some posters have described some of the new teams short comings and issues, which I think are being made worse by the tactics employed or lack of them.

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Woah there, Yes we had an off day a really crazy off day as far as passing is concerned but Mr Butcher will have learned a great deal from it and so will the players so much so that we will beat Celtic in our next meeting.

We now see a new strike force emerging with Andrew, Billy, Ross Draper, and Connor leading, then Meekings, Waren, Foran, alternating up with them.The defence will soon be strenthened into Hogg, OTJ, and G Shinnie. In the meantime King and Raven are there to fill the gaps. Imo Pepper should not be overplayed, he is not quite ready to make starts but Morrison or Ross could make the first half contribution paving the way for the second half

Esson doesn't seem to wake up fully until he has let in a couple of goals then he can play a blinder almost as if he knows he has to make up for his mistakes. I hope our Spannish lad gets his chance against Arbroath I would like to see just what he can do and it could also keep Esson more alert at the start of games if he sees he has a real rival threat.

I am not a bit downhearted, I sort of expected a loss with Lennon playing his mind games of tiredness, injuries, travel and ''important matches coming up'' all planned to raise expectations of ICT players and supporters and covering his own back in case the unexpected happened.

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