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ICT -V- Aberdeen


Scotty

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Dont start that bull shyte on this thread ---please!!!

Thought we might have hung on at 1-0 but slack defending cost us again.

Anyway would have take 1-1 before the game, so almost happy, Did Doran get tapped as he went to slide the ball past Clangers? TB went off the feckin head!l he was going apeshyte at the 4th clown at fulltime.

Game looked a 0-0 till the sending off which gave foran the red mist and adrenalin rush to become my mom, Andre did well, and will be shoe in for LB as he showed G shinnie how to defend as a LB.

Shinnies brother has fallen away to a level which we have not seen for a long time and should have been subbed long before he was.

Tudirs red was pretty harsh as he hadn't been spoken to before that, no wonder TB feckin hates ref's!

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Great posts above from RiG, Bishbasbosh and particularly from Renegade. Agree with most of what was said although not RiG's view of Hayes (he was generally poor) or Bishbasbosh's view that we had the right set up to start with.

We struggled to create in the first half because Foran was up front. Andrew Shinnie was very poor today and was rightly subbed early in the 2nd half. Sutherland came on and played up front and despite being a man down, that really sparked the game. This was partly because that is where Sutherland should be played and he was very effective. Bit it was even more because Foran was so much more effective when he dropped into a deeper midfield position. He put in twice as much effort than OTJ and Shinnie did between them whilst they were on the park.

I would have hoped that TB would have seen how much more threatening we were with Sutherland up front and therefore I was rather dismayed to see that when MacKay came on for the tiring Doran (who was in serious danger of getting a second yellow) MacKay went up front and Sutherland went wide. Why not just leave Sutherland to carry on with the great job he was doing and either put MacKay wide or bring on Pepper instead? By the way, is there any word of how bad Shane's injury is?

No doubt the highlights will see whether OTJ's tackle deserved a red. From the North Stand my immediate reaction was that it was a clear straight red. Having said that, I have also seen reds given for less than Meekings' and Foran's tackels. I thought Doran's booking was very soft but he was lucky not to get a second yellow later in the game. We could have been down to 7! No doubt Aberdeen fans are commenting on what a dirty side we are and how we are lucky we had as many as 10 on the park at the end of the game. We want to see fight and commitment from the players but we also need to see judgement and discipline - I am concerned we have some players who are prone to poor judgement at times and this could cost us later in the season.

Finally - what a poor turnout from Inverness fans. The South stand was fuller than the North Stand. Subtract 2000 from the crowd for the travelling support and you get the numbers for the home support. Shocking for an SPL match against the Dons. Let's not get into the arguments of why the Inverness public are not supporting the local team but our crowds are going to drop below the 3000 mark soon and we cannot sustain SPL football with than kind of fan base. It was good to see a generally more solid defensive performance today but we have to start winning matches to attract the fans back.

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Just listened to Fora's interview and he was convinced that Doran had his ankle clipped as was about to shoot past Langfield and that we should have had second pen.

Prob why TB was going spare.

'Terry Butcher says he is glad he is not playing anymore - for referee George Salmond's own sake.

The Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager thought his side were denied a second penalty and should not have had a red card in the draw with Aberdeen .

"If I was playing now, I would be up on an assault charge, if not more," the former England captain said, hopefully with tongue in cheek.

"Referees are the most inconsistent people that I have ever seen."

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Scotty

Maybe you are right about Vine scoring the winner for St Johnstone.

The report I saw was written by a character who didn't speak very good English and you have access to the British Grape-Vine which I don't ..send me the link if one is available..eh?

There you go...... Sorted. :tongue:

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Great posts above from RiG, Bishbasbosh and particularly from Renegade. Agree with most of what was said although not RiG's view of Hayes (he was generally poor) or Bishbasbosh's view that we had the right set up to start with.

Generally poor or not he got the better of our full backs on a number of occasions and only needed to be asked once to get a good ball in to allow Aberdeen to equalise. Our wing play was insipid by comparison.

Finally - what a poor turnout from Inverness fans. The South stand was fuller than the North Stand. Subtract 2000 from the crowd for the travelling support and you get the numbers for the home support. Shocking for an SPL match against the Dons. Let's not get into the arguments of why the Inverness public are not supporting the local team but our crowds are going to drop below the 3000 mark soon and we cannot sustain SPL football with than kind of fan base. It was good to see a generally more solid defensive performance today but we have to start winning matches to attract the fans back.

Indeed it was a horrible turnout but our attendances against Aberdeen have been plummeting for some time now.

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Still, 2,500 odd fans turning up to see what is seen by some, oddly, as a Derby game is very poor. Given that we have say 2,000 (at best) season ticket holders then that is a very poor effort from the locals. Are they being priced out though and are many simply fed up and disinterested with ICT just now?

Just listened to Fora's interview and he was convinced that Doran had his ankle clipped as was about to shoot past Langfield and that we should have had second pen.

Prob why TB was going spare.

Butcher was having words with the referee at full time that's for sure!

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Dorans ankle was more than clipped, foot came over the top of his leg and impeded the shot and it also looks like he was leant on at the same time...not to mention the fact that it ended with the player going straight through him....a foul in itself, regardless of whether it stopped him getting a proper shot off or not. A more solid penalty than the one awarded to Sutherland, IMO.

The SPL YouTube channel have "Penalty Claims" video (looks like rules on showing controversial issues has been relaxed) which will go live tomorrow evening and the incident is included in that....unfortunately it doesn't include video from the main stand side which we took ourselves and gives a much clearer angle, but I'll check the position on us being allowed to put that up on our own channel.

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Dorans ankle was more than clipped, foot came over the top of his leg and impeded the shot and it also looks like he was leant on at the same time...not to mention the fact that it ended with the player going straight through him....a foul in itself, regardless of whether it stopped him getting a proper shot off or not. A more solid penalty than the one awarded to Sutherland, IMO.

The SPL YouTube channel have "Penalty Claims" video (looks like rules on showing controversial issues has been relaxed) which will go live tomorrow evening and the incident is included in that....unfortunately it doesn't include video from the main stand side which we took ourselves and gives a much clearer angle, but I'll check the position on us being allowed to put that up on our own channel.

A bigger ref would have given a 2nd penalty and a better ref wouldnt have tried to balance out his mistakes with even more mistakes.

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. Are they being priced out though and are many simply fed up and disinterested with ICT just now?

I certainly can no longer afford to go, unless as a one off treat. But the weekends ICT are at home, seem to mostly coincide with the weekends i have my kids staying. If things were different....id be there every week. That sed, i havent been subjected to the dire football as much as others, so i might not be so willing to say that after a season like last.

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. Are they being priced out though and are many simply fed up and disinterested with ICT just now?

I certainly can no longer afford to go, unless as a one off treat. But the weekends ICT are at home, seem to mostly coincide with the weekends i have my kids staying. If things were different....id be there every week. That sed, i havent been subjected to the dire football as much as others, so i might not be so willing to say that after a season like last.

If you have an opportunity you should definatly still be coming. The footballs ben much improved from last, we havnt got that ilusive win but it will come I'm sure if we keep playing like we can.

But don't listen to me il just be told in vomiting rainbows.

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A real step in the right direction after the last 2 games but just couldnt hold on for the win we crave. Disappointed but not disheartened after that showing. OTJ's red card was the wrong call. Mistimed and poorly executed but ive seen bookings given for worse. Though Anderson got a slight touch of the ball but got plenty of Shane before hand, that was a correct call.

Thought Andre Blackman had a great debut. Thrown in at the deep end with a full game and up against a tricky opponent in Jonny Hayes but he stuck to his task well and deserved his man of the match award. Foran worked his socks off yet again. Both up front and in midfield, has improved his game a lot from last season and has already matched his total scoring tally from last season :notworthy: .

Another player that impressed me was Draper. He may be inconsistent but at his best he is brilliant. Made some life saving tackles and always looked to break forward. Warren is another who put in a solid display.

Raven is taking a lot of shtick. His distribution was poor yesterday and he is by no means the quickest but i wouldnt describe him as terrible. What i would say is that Meekings is probably better at right back and i would imagine when King and Hogg are back fit Meekings will revert to right back once again.

At home we look difficult to beat but we need to start cutting out the lack of concentration at the end of games and turn these draws into wins.

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ESSON 7/10 - Thought that was a bit more like the aggresive, eager Ryan of yore.

RAVEN 6/10 - His confidence is clearly fragile and I suspect the he was told to get rid as soon as possible but he more than held hisl own against two lively wingers - and Grandpa Broon had clearly targeted him. He even really got forward in the second half. But my gawd has be been "proctorised" as every minor error that he makes is jumped upon - and there were a few others who were not ostracised for even more dismeanours.

MEEKINGS 6/10 - Full of commitment and enthusiasm but it really needs to be harnessed. He could/should have seen a red at Well and again yesterday. He is surely just a stand in at centre back as I do not feel that he has the requisites to play there and needs to concentrate on being a full back.

WARREN 8/10 - I am really taking to this guy. He has equal endearing qualities to Meekings but he is far more composed and thoughtful AND disciplined. Keeping this lad fit may actually be the key to our season - I will even go as far as stating that he has more potential than Munro and Tokely ever had, My MOM.

BLACKMAN 8/10 - Simply the best Blackman we have ever fielded at left back. He simply has the pace to recover and covers the back four line like a traditional left back did - better than Mispass at least. Reckon he will be even better when he haste chance to be more offensive. Hope that he is fit fer next week as he toiled in the last quarter.

DORAN. 6/10 - Is he frustrating or feckin wot - reckon he had too much feckin pasta in midweek and left his shooting boots at the Vatican. If only he could find consistency. Will have to wait fer the highlights but I felt that he had lost control of the ball and had scarfed it but he was deffo clipped in the execution and the ref clearly avoided a third red card scenario.

OTJ 4/10 if he didn't gob off - feck all if he did - said it all on another thread.

DRAPER 8/10 - Now this is the type of player who was born to play in the SPL !!

G.SHINNIE 6/10 - Got a fair deal of stick yesterday but it is difficult to move positions BUT he did interchange well with Blackman and that be one muvverfecker of a combination in a few games time.

FORAN 8/10 - Captain Marvel and looking after his boys like a true Mrs Brown. Will have to start off a he's here, he,s there, he's every feckin where chant soon.

A.SHINNIE 5/10 - Sorry but his body language says it all. I suspect that he doesn't like how he is being played and/or where heis being played. I simply feel that he has to be given a more influential role. I can also detect some real tension between him and Butcher and fear that he will be the next casualty of war.

Most of the rest is covered in a variety of positive but clear posts but here are my criticisms !!

OTJ should not have been started and we have to give the playmaker role to Andy Shinnie - We should have utilised Pepper sooner when they were there foR the taking - Shane looked really strong in the middle and got us the goal with his pace and strength -so why ship him out wide left ??

And that is really that APART from the one aspect that totally pushed me off - in the last 10-15 minutes Aberdire totally looked as I

If they wanted the points more and we played for a point - that is a big difference and shows that we need to get the no win monkey off our backs ASAP.

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I think IHE has it pretty well spot on - but no marks for Shane?

Fair point about the Proctorisation of Raven. His distribution was poor yesterday and that is what people notice, but he actually defended pretty well.

Highlights now up. Can't really argue with OTJ's red. He lost possession through poor control of the ball and was reckless in response. Foran is a lucky boy as was Meekins but that was not shown on the highlights. I don't think any of the three tackles were malicious but all were reckless. These are the sort of tackles you think you are hard done by if you get a straight red but are relieved if it is only yellow.

Anderson is unlucky but the decison for the penalty and the red card was correct. He did foul Sutherland before he cleared the ball.

Doran was clearly fouled but he had plenty time to bury it or move it on to Shane who had an open goal. Wrong decision but we didn't deserve to get the right one.

As for the Aberdeen goal! That clip could be used as an example to demonstrate just about every aspect of poor defending from a set piece that you could ever image. How they must be laughing in Aberdeen (and Dingwall) as they watch that tonight.

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The first half was poor stuff, with nothing really happening. Aberdeen had more possession but didn't do much with it and we didn't really threaten the few times we got the ball. Foran had a couple of chances but couldn't get the ball down. A great blocking tackle from Draper on Hughes (I think) was Aberdeens best opening.

The second half took off more. Aberdeen forced a corner with the first attack of the game, from which Andrew COnsidine's shot was cleared off the line. We seemed to push up a bit more and tried to get Foran into play more. The match really took off when Owain Tudur Jones was sent off for a tackle on Ryan Fraser. Jones was obviously going for the ball, sliding in to hook the ball away but mistimed it as Fraser nipped in, sending the wee winger up in the air. It's a difficult one - personally I think it should have been a yellow, he wasn't reckless, he wasn't out of control but it was mistimed and gave Fraser a sore one. Teh fact that Jones is massive and Fraser tiny made it look much worse.

Terry Butcher was going mental on the touchline and I think he could end up getting in trouble with the SFA for his behaviour. He was swearing and shouting "He's the worst ref I've ever seen" to the crowd. We rejigged by subsituting Andy Shinnie, who had been quiet, and bringing on Shane Sutherland who went up front while Foran dropped back into midfield. Soon after we took the lead, with a ball forward from Shinnie putting Shane Sutherland clean through on goal, where Russell Anderson brought him down. It looked a penalty to me and a red card. Foran knocked it in.

Not long after that we broke away following an Aberdeen attack with Foran carrying the ball forward and Doran, Sutherland and Shinnie up against only Mark Reynolds. Foran played in Doran, right in front of goal, but he got the ball stuck beneath his feet and sent the ball bobbling wide. our players seemed to claim for a penalty but nothing was given.

After the goal we were sitting very deep and Aberdeen pushed on, having lots of possession but not really creating any clear chances until Hayes made a run to the byline and crossed for Cameron Smith to head home, a pretty simple goal. Perhaps our centreal defenders should've done better marking Smith or Blackman done a better job matching Hayes.

I dont' think we can complain about a point and there were some positives. I thought that Foran, Draper and Warren all had good games, Andre Blackman looked decent on his debut and gives us another option on the left hand side. On the other hand, we lost a lead for the third time this season and haven't kept a clean sheet yet. Also, I thought Doran and Andy Shinnie were very poor. ShinnieA doesn't relish playing with Foran up front as the more direct balls don't suit his game, he prefers it into feet. Doran looked one paced and missed an absolute sitter for the goal. He obvously has talent, he's shown that in the past, but he needs to perform consistently. One of the most important things we need to start doing is getting our creative attacking players in possession in the right areas of the pitch. We played very deep and there's not much point in getting someone like Doran on teh ball ten yards inside his own half, we need to push up and get him on the ball in the final third. We also need better movement and runs from our attacking players - often the full backs or midfielders would emerge with the ball and not have a forward pass to make.

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Doran was clearly fouled but he had plenty time to bury it or move it on to Shane who had an open goal. Wrong decision but we didn't deserve to get the right one.

What a bizarre comment....your basically saying that he deserved to be fouled, and that is somehow ok that no penalty was awarded because he took a touch instead of just hitting it first time!!!

What ever happened to the concept of supporters looking for reasons to support a team and it's players? It seems to have become the norm these days to look for reasons not too!!!

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Doran was clearly fouled but he had plenty time to bury it or move it on to Shane who had an open goal. Wrong decision but we didn't deserve to get the right one.

What a bizarre comment....your basically saying that he deserved to be fouled, and that is somehow ok that no penalty was awarded because he took a touch instead of just hitting it first time!!!

What ever happened to the concept of supporters looking for reasons to support a team and it's players? It seems to have become the norm these days to look for reasons not too!!!

What a bizarre couple of comments.

Of course I'm not saying he deserved to be fouled and I very clearly stated that the referee made the wrong decision. What I am saying is that had the right decision been made, Doran would be able to count himself lucky as he was fouled after having made a hash of a golden opportunity.

As for supporting a team and its players I think that can best be served by providing encouragement on the park and being objective both in crticism and praise off it on this forum. In speaking to any Dons fans I may, of course, refer to what a diving cheating squirt Fraser is, but the reality is he was on the receiving end of some tackles which should not have been made. That kind of indiscipline is not going to help the campaign this season and it serves no purpose in trying to justify it on this forum. Nor does it serve any purpose bleating on about a bad penalty decison when the ball should have been in the back of the net before the defender got anywhere near the ball (or the player).

No matter how good at their job people are, they do it better if areas for improvement are identified and worked on. By all means lets have some tongue in cheek banter, but when discussing serious topics let's try to be reasonably objective. It is completely wrong to equate being critical with not providing support - the reality is that objective criticism is often more supportive than saying "well done" when it was anything but.

And why should we be "looking for reasons to support" our team. No need to look. We should simply be supporting the team - full stop - and saying things as we see them. What is the point of trying to deceive ourselves and others that things are different - we learn nothing from that. I sincerely hope the manager doesn't resort to looking for reasons to support his players rather than telling them how it is. The changing room discussion on Saturday might have gone something like this.

"Christ we were hellish unlucky with the equaliser lads! Never mind, it was just one of those things - don't worry about it. You all did your best. There was no reason to think the referee would actually give the foul when Graeme pulled the lad's shirt. And what a cheating rabble they are to take a free kick before checking that you had all ambled back in to your defensive positions. And as for Jonny actually being able to cross a ball! well, who would have thought that? And what a great effort it was from the five of you marking that new lad, Smith. Or was it 6 of you? My but he's a big lad. Must be all of 8 foot 6! There was nothing anybody could have done to intercept that imperious leap of his. In any case, he looked a couple of yards offside to me. Come on Richie - get that Rioja open!"

I have a suspicion that Terry's post match analysis might have gone somewhat differently.

I will continue to support ICT by giving praise where praise is due and objective (and hopefully constructive) criticsm where it is not.

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" In speaking to any Dons fans I may, of course, refer to what a diving cheating squirt Fraser is, but the reality is he was on the receiving end of some tackles which should not have been made."

I disagree. After the OTJ challenge he reacted as if he had a career ending injury. Red card comes out. Two minutes later he's sprinting up and down the park again, absolutly nothing wrong with him. Scumbag. When a player conducts himself like that he deserves to be dealt with in the harshest manner possible. My only complaint is that Foran didn't kick him hard enough.

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As I have stated on another thread, and as it had looked from the North Stand at the time - Doran dithered and found himself in "two minds" whether to dink the keeper or to go round him and it appears that he sclaffed the ball BUT almost at the same time as a very clumsy challenge. It therefore was a penalty and a red card and would have been if it hadnt been 10 a side and a more dubious penalty awarded before.

On this occasion I do disagree with Doofers Dad as I did feel that we deserved the three points but I can certainly see the rationale behind his critiques. As I have said before not everybody is a happy clapper that sees the "evil" but never speaks it and holds Mr Butcher in a protected, demigod status. In many ways constructive criticism is healthy and for the good of the team.

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