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Section E treatment


jamie ictfc

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Thank you Yngwie. I did have a bit of a rant to reply with as I do not appreciate being labeled a racist. But I'm on my phone and can't be bothered. Suffice to say you clearly don't understand what my post meant and throwing around the term racist only serves to diminish it when there is a genuine issue.

If you feel my first post is racist please report it to the mods of not surely an apology is in order. :/

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I was not in Section E (I am still in Section G) but I had my bag searched quite thoroughly, both on Saturday and Tuesday evening "just in case I had a smoke bomb" or whatever!  As an oap who has been to virtually every game since ICT came into existence, I try to be helpful to the Stewards and show them that my bag holds only my binos (to see the boys more clearly at the other end of the pitch) my fleece blanket and other items to keep me and my fellow fans a bit warm on a cold footie day.  No bottles no nothing untoward, ever.  A goodie - me.  I wouldnt know what a smoke bomb looked like.  However, it was sad to see Section E being filmed - what about the young persons there - were their parents aware their children were being filmed - isnt there some rule where permission must be granted before filming can take place of persons under a certain age?  I agree smoke bombs should have no place within ICT or any football stadium but ... for example I saw no Police officers trying to film the fans from where the coin was flung and injured one of our fans at Ibrox at the cup game just a few weeks ago.  Who decided that the young people in our Section E were responsible for what happened at Dingwall?  What evidence?  From whom?

 

Asked a police friend about the filming rules this morning. The filming is not covert/hidden so they are allowed to film without permission. The tapes are studied and if anything untoward is found they try and identify the face from the film. If the tape is not needed again it is destroyed. He did seen surprised that we had been targeted in this way and the amount of attention being devoted to the use of the g word. Have to agree with Liz on this that we all seem to being tarred with the same brush here unfortunately.

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Let's get back to the OP's observations, because they seem to have provoked a bit of a sh*tstorm. There does seem to have been an increased police presence at the home end on tuesday (the difference from home/ away in terms of hi-vis jackets was noticeable) and this had nothing to do with the Club. as CD says, it is the police who dictate the terms of their operation to the club, not the other way round. It's clear that the increased security was made on assumptions about the likelihood of a repeat of chucking smoke bombs or fans getting onto the pitch. As it turns out, those assumptions were wrong although the police would no doubt contend that their actions potentially prevented any disorder. What is clear is that the club could have faced sanctions over the smoke bomb at the start of the Dingwall game as it caused the start of a broadcast event (which is subject to a contract) being delayed. Just as well it was the BBC with no advert breaks to schedule. Fans on the pitch is just a massive no no, we used to have fences to prevent that sort of thing and we don't want them back. So the causes of the increased police presence were our own fault and we need to just accept that, move on and keep supporting the team.

Another matter altogether lies around fans being filmed (I personally find it disturbing that the police can film me, without my consent, without any reasonable suspicion attached to my actions. This is at least the 4th time that I can think of that this has happened at TCS, so it's not a training/ readiness thing. It's intelligence gathering. If you don't like that, ask the police why they did it through a freedom of information inquiry and take the matter up with your MP. I have.

In terms of being asked or warned (as some have put it) that any chants about gypsies would be rewarded with a night in the cells, it is curious that the match recording clearly has County fans singing about rather being gypsies than tinks. How you would then enforce calling something racist or dicriminatory when those subjected to the songs were singing the same thing (and clearly accepting the name) is beyond me. The match commander (the senior police officer present) needs to brief his officers properly and unequivocally about their approach to enforcing certain laws and I would bet that, because this relatively new law is as yet unclear and untested he would find it difficult. It's a question of context. 

What we do all need to keep in mind is the good name of ICT and it's supporters and do everything that we can to preserve it. Does anyone think that a couple of "fan ambassadors" attached to this section of the crowd, who could liaise between security/ police and fans in a non confrontational way be useful? I would also say that, if the matchday experience is diminished for fans because of this stuff, get CaleyJagsTogether to seek a response on your behalf from the club. police or security company. It's what CJT is there for. 

Sorry about the length of this post.

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So how should the police have dealt with things?  Just pretend it never happened?

 

Let's say the police did nothing whatsoever and someone thought it would be fun to repeat the incident on Tuesday night.  Let's say that someone was struck by a flying smoke bomb and/or had a respiratory condition that was triggered off by it and (god forbid) the worst happened.

 

We'd all be up in arms that the police, in full knowledge of a previous incident, had done nothing to prevent a repeat of it and we'd be calling for inquests, enquiries, sackings and all kinds.

 

You can't have it all ways.

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So how should the police have dealt with things?  Just pretend it never happened?

 

Let's say the police did nothing whatsoever and someone thought it would be fun to repeat the incident on Tuesday night.  Let's say that someone was struck by a flying smoke bomb and/or had a respiratory condition that was triggered off by it and (god forbid) the worst happened.

 

We'd all be up in arms that the police, in full knowledge of a previous incident, had done nothing to prevent a repeat of it and we'd be calling for inquests, enquiries, sackings and all kinds.

 

You can't have it all ways.

 

 

 

Your responces always appear to be if's and buts, based on the facts.

 

Everybody in that section was searched.

 

Therefore nobody has smoke bombs.

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But the police could not know that if they hadn't searched you.

 

For people like the police it's all about risk assessment....which boils down to ifs and buts.  IF they do nothing BUT something happens, then ultimately they are accountable for their inaction.  It would seem that people on this thread are trying to argue that those responsible for the increased police presence are in no way accountable and should just be left to do as they please despite breaking the law.  Life doesn't work like that unfortunately.

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As mentioned the reputation of section E has been somewhat diminshed for reasons we all know. To deny that those responsible for the smoke bomb in Dingwall is comedy. I dont consider it a massive offence nor one that caused harm. However in light of the injury Rio Ferdinand recieved in the Manchester derby the idiot from section E who through a coin onto the pitch when Viguars scored doesnt help anyone a feeble effort i might add barely making it over the wall it missed a security guard by not much distance. The security guard was rather irate about as well lucky that he neither knew who did it as well as the fact his supervisor didnt seem interested to take him on.

 

If we are going to play the hard done by card lets at least not give me more reasons for the actions to be justified, Please?

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I never take flares to a game.  In fact I don't wear flares at all.  Soooooooooo 1970's man.

 

I don't mind being filmed.  In fact I've even starred in a few low budget movies in the past.  In one I had to go and fix this photocopier as these 2 secretaries in very short skirts were working late...

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I never take flares to a game.  In fact I don't wear flares at all.  Soooooooooo 1970's man.

 

I don't mind being filmed.  In fact I've even starred in a few low budget movies in the past.  In one I had to go and fix this photocopier as these 2 secretaries in very short skirts were working late...

Possibly the biggest case of wishful thinking I've ever seen on here

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did anyone watch the arbroath celtic game tonight?

 

every 20 minutes there was a loud bang and at one of them the camera cut accross to the celtic fans after one of the bangs and it was a smoke bomb, they didnt even throw it they kept it in the stand. why dont celtic get the same treatment we get? because theres more of them? the systems fecked.

Sections of the celtic support are filmed at most games as are aberdeen , hibs etc

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I would rather be filmed than being photographed, fingerprinted, ejected and/or put in to a feckin cell. I would imagine that would be extremely distressing. What these yoofs need is an older adult role model.

 

I was reliably informed that the police were filming as several complaints had been made after the County game by fans of BOTH teams, in respect to behaviour and language. The police had little option to do what they did. I bet they all thought that it was a feckin waste of time as well.

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Im tempted to go topless next time the polis feel the urge to get their camera out. Show off the abs and make sure they see how beautiful sections of the ICT support look :tongueincheek:

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The smoke bomb at Victoria Park may not have been ANY of the Section E crowd.

It's not VP any longer so let's not call it that. The shadows are quick enough to slag us off about selling out 18 years ago so let's just remember they've just franchised their stadium!

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Another new account here, however most likely a different view than others (older wiser head quite possibly).

 

First and foremost, like many others have said reap what you sow. Now I am not that active on twitter, however it was easy to see on the lead up to the game at County that #SMOKEBOMBS were going to be used. First tip, if you want to get away with it don't brag about it on networks as easy accessible as the likes of twitter it will only come back to bite you on the arse as it has showed now. Some of those on here who are complaining about the actions taken have put photos up of the incident. Think lads, just think.

 

Maybe the police did go over the top, however 7 officers in the grand scheme of things is not a large amount, filming yes a step too far however as someone has previously said this can't come directly from the club, they cannot make that decision.

 

Caley are a family club and want to protect that reputation it generates more fans which in turn generates more income. Anyone seen to damage it will be sought out unfortunately. Easier for them to ban one or two 'troublesome' fans and gain positive publicity than losing a family of supporters.

 

Every team has more boisterous fans, and almost every fan will do something in the safety of numbers that he/she wouldn't do in the street. It is the mob mentality and it has happened for many many years and will continue to happen (I myself have had a ban imposed on me that stopped me from following Scotland internationally). However you need to know at Caley you will be caught out, I see someone mentioned Celtic last night against Arbroath, when teams like this let them off they stick together and it is near impossible to tell just who has let it off and who is holding it. It's not worth the Police or Stewards time to go in and trying to find the main perpatrator. Obviously Caley don't have this, which is why IMO it was thrown on to the pitch against County because whoever let it off knew they would be caught within seconds.

 

Now those who stand in Section E/G wherever, this isn't me having a go at you. I speak to a few of you and you do seem a good bunch, all be it a few who can't handle their drink but again you get those in all supports. Support the side, by having a good laugh not spending the night in a cell and having an expensive court case to pay out for.

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