Merger Talk

[Charles Bannerman]

All that I have been trying to put across is that it still hurts and it always will - and the scab gets itchy when peeple who either do not have a clue or are embellishing the facts come around. Plus the ploy of some to deride any suggestion that the merger continues to have a negative effect on today's support and attendances.

Do not forget that Caley and Thistle had been around since the late 1800's. The average crowds had dwindled significantly in the end and it was a case of hundreds attending games. BUT as was witnessed at the Scottish Cup replay in Perf there were and still are THOUSANDS of Caley and Thistle fans locally. I would say that it is only a minority who have chosen to follow ICT or "allowed" their offspring to do so.

And Caley and Thistle fans are annoyed that two local institutions were torn apart and it was the callous manner in which it happened was the annoying part.

Johndo... FACT - around SIX times as many fans attend ICT games now than Thistle and Caley combined for many years prior to 1994.

 

So next time you knock back an opportunity to convert £1000 into £6000 after start-up costs have been paid, please let me know because I would be very pleased to take it up.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Charlie - FACT - around SIX times more people supported Caley and Thistle compared to ICT today. Unfortunately many supported Caley and Thistle as their "second" team and favoured bigger teams. Since the merger many have bitterly opposed ICT and maintained their allegiance to the "bigger" teams. They have influenced many around them to do so. There are probably as many people leaving Inverness to follow the other teams on match days than those who sit in the North Stand. Initially there were a few that did both but the "rise" of ICT as stopped their attendance as well.

 

The support for Caley at the Perf game only goes to show the potential - perhaps in hindsight £1000 could have been converted in to £8-10,000 and the North Stand would be rocking.

[+bughtmaster]

Oh! for Goodness sake why can't we all just support the Sneckie team.

The Union was made between the two teams to further the cause of quality football in the Highlands, it has worked, we are a successful SPFL contender,  so get behind the pride of Sneckie. The marriage worked let's just remember that and leave the separatism behind like our neighbours over the bridge................... IN OUR SHADOW 

[Kingsmills]

Charlie - FACT - around SIX times more people supported Caley and Thistle compared to ICT today. Unfortunately many supported Caley and Thistle as their "second" team and favoured bigger teams. Since the merger many have bitterly opposed ICT and maintained their allegiance to the "bigger" teams. They have influenced many around them to do so. There are probably as many people leaving Inverness to follow the other teams on match days than those who sit in the North Stand. Initially there were a few that did both but the "rise" of ICT as stopped their attendance as well.

 

The support for Caley at the Perf game only goes to show the potential - perhaps in hindsight £1000 could have been converted in to £8-10,000 and the North Stand would be rocking.

 

Must be a sign of middle age but my memory fails me when it comes to recalling regular combined attendances of between 18,000 and 24,000 every second week at Kingsmills and Telford Street but, since it's a fact, there must have been. Halcyon days indeed. What a disaster that the merger took place and those tens of thousands no longer attend football matches in Inverness.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Kingsmills

[Charles Bannerman]

Oh! for Goodness sake why can't we all just support the Sneckie team.

The Union was made between the two teams

You'll get a MacFatwah from Big Alec and a tartan handbagging from Wee Nicola for calling it that

 

But you are dead right Bughtmaster. There were times in earlier years on here when it seemed that an account and evaulation of Caley Thistle's origins seemed relevant. Sometimes it is still helpful to clarify certain historical facts about the formation of the club. But the case for the "Union"   is now long proven beyond all conceivable doubt and revisiting the same old stuff again and again has become overwhelmingly boring.

The only mildly interesting - or perhaps rather amusing - aspect of more recent discussion is the manner in which the refusenik case has shifted.

It used to be that the few hundred who used to attend Thistle and Caley games were staying away in their thousands.

Now it seems to be that their children and their children's children are staying away - along with thousands who never went to Telford Street or Kingsmills in the first place

It just gets more and more bizarre as time goes on.

[Scotty]

The merger happened and is part of our history but the key word there is history, as in "the past, olden days, bygone days, the old days, long ago etc.".

 

It should never be forgotten, and those who chose not to support the new team are as much within their rights to do so as those of us who chose to embrace (Inverness) Caledonian Thistle. But no-one can say with any degree of certainty what would have happened had the two teams chosen to go alone ... not Charles Bannerman, not IHE, not any single one of the 'refuseniks' or anyone else because that did not happen ......

 

Would two Inverness teams going alone have split the votes and ended up with County and someone else from the south getting in ? 

Would Thistle have got in due to Jock's contacts, leaving Caley floundering in the HL or would we have got in in place of County?

Had one or both teams not got in would that have affected the support for each team? 

Would a go-it-alone Caley or Thistle have been so successful? 

 

If you have an answer to any of those questions then you are deluding yourself. You can have an opinion, perhaps even an informed opinion, but you cannot know what would have happened unless you have been to a parallel universe where it did !!! (ok, maybe IHE will know ... he is often on a different planet).    

 

For my mind, I prefer to remember it thus ....

 

The merger happened. It was painful. We came through it. We are stronger now. We are successful. We are ICT!

[Big G]

I think we should have a referendum on September 14th to decide if we stay in this "Union" or if Caley and Thistle should go it alone.

[Kingsmills]

In that case and that case alone count me in the 'Better Together' camp.

[Sneckboy]

I see both sides here. Scotty makes good points with his recent post, Inverness is very much on the football map due to the success of the merger. 'Success' meaning the club has seen a level of success few could have foreseen.

 

But I also see IHE's stance that there was a large latent support for the clubs before the merger. Agreed they'd fallen away somewhat but it was likely apathy - same old Highland League teams etc.: but Scottish Cup games fairly brought out the crowds.

 

What's annoying is the 'blazers' that ran Scottish football denied Northern teams access to the closed shop of the Scottish League until recently.

Scottish Football League places were at a premium and opportunities to join were limited. Thistle famously denied in 1974 by Ferranti/Meadowbank/Livingston - rumoured soon to be re-named West Lothian FC - a joke club, built on shifting sands that's effectively a franchise.

 

Caley and Inverness Thistle had longer, richer histories than that joke outfit.

 

What's particularly poignant is that this season introduces the first year of inclusion - whereby, if you're good enough, you get a shot at the Scottish League via a play-off system. Only minor adjustments are needed to join - such as floodlight brightness, tannoy volume and possibly a match-day qualified physio to be present.

 

Obviously, 20 years ago, we couldn't have forseen the opening-up of Scottish football.

 

Younger fans, who only know ICT, must wonder what all the fuss is about - but, again as mentioned by IHE, It's like Inverness and County now merging to get admission into a British League - as Highland United.

Could you support them with the same fervour?

 

It just irks me that other, dare I say, lesser, Highland teams like Buckie Thistle, Deveronvale, keith and Brora can get a crack at it whereas caley and thistle were denied that chance.

 

With the subsequent growth of Inverness over the past 20 years, there's every chance that if we hadn't merged, Caley and Thistle would both eventually be in the SPFL.

Derbys would attract huge crowds. The interest would be huge. Both would likely develop into Championship sides with Premiership football the obvious target.

 

Championship games, Caley v Raith Rovers and Inverness Thistle v Falkirk, would certainly, even on the same day, have a greater combined attendance than ICT v Hamilton, for example.

 

If Ross County can make the highest level of Scottish football (top 6 of that, no less), I see no reason why Caley or Thistle couldn't have done likewise.

Our clubs would still exist if the blazers had 'opened up' the league to all clubs years ago. 

 

I support Caley Thistle because they're my home-town team and are effectively the merger of my team with another, but, I can honestly say that even the League Cup final didn't invigorate me as much as a Scottish Cup game (any round) at Kingsmills!

 

As an interesting side-note; of the 6 guys I used to regularly meet-up with at the Corrie before games, only 2 of us now go to ICT games.

The 'refusnik' estimate is always played down!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Looks like Mr Bannerman is struggling to make a rational argument again and just continues to view the number of those that he rather derogatorily refers to as refuseniks as being thin in numbers. That is becos he does not and never has been "in touch" with the real footballing fraternity and listens to the upper echelons who have their own warped view. He also now appears to be supported by the traitors in the stand populous who are apparently ICT from the off.

At least Sneckboy can understand the argument - and how many, if they were honest , would agree with his side note - my numbers would be 20-30 and only 2-3 of their kids support ICT.

Scotty summed it up perfectly. Again I agree wholeheartedly but my point was about the numbers that have been lost because of the emotions of the merger - and that is clearly thousands rather than hundreds.

[12th Man]

But who were the real fans, the ones before Dalneigh was built, I think the thousands of town dwellers would have supported Thistle, leaving the fishermen at clachnaharry  and the cattle drovers from Rossshire and beyond to pop in and watch a Caley match.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Not a feckin clue - the defence rests.

[+Fraz]

I didn't even realise there was a merger.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Neither do half the cnuts on this page.

[Alex MacLeod]

Was there a merger?

 

Oh I so there was!!!

 

I'd very nearly forgotten.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well that kind of memory impairment is quite common in old age. Are all your mates who were sad enough to watch the original Jeggies still frequenting the Dump ?

[FoolPhysio]

. . . . now appears to be supported by the traitors in the stand populous who are apparently ICT from the off.

 

Oh dear.  Nothing emotive in that terminology then.

 

Well done in encouraging ICT fans.

 

Sheesh.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

You may find that the phrase "traitors in the stand " refers to the management and pro merger population of Caledonian FC. As ever it was tongue in cheek. Good luck with the humour bypass operation.

SHEESH

[dougal]

Mikey Noble is basically reiterating what I've been saying for years and the usual suspects can't handle it despite it being so glaringly obviously

So the likes of AC and Inter, Real and Athletico, United and City, Liverpool and Everton etc etc are all doing it wrong seeing their fans are from the same community

As the years pass Bannerman just gets more and more embarrassing, my advice would be for him to stick to commenting on the commonwealth games , something he allegedly knows something about although that's probably debatable as well

He doesn't know what it's like to be a football supporter and he NEVER will hence why he comes across as a pathetic little weasel

Dougal

Poor Dougal   He really is having such difficulty coming to terms with the stunning success of the merger-catalysed transition from a few hundred fans shouting abuse at each other in the relative anonymity of the Highland League to a high profile team in the top half of the Scottish Premiership. http://youtu.be/sfYoNPJcN30

[ferben1994]

Right. Camon who is the one they call Dougal

He has got to be a fan of the shadows

[ferben1994]

Ouch

Still can't work out who Douglas supports tho

I guess after personal abuse like this tho the banhammer will be out. :-D

I think I've cottoned on to who Dougal is actually. I'm not going to name names, but once you realise who it is, it becomes fairly obvious.

Is Dougal,,,,,Laurence?

Can't be surely but they are both entirely similar posters :-/

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Is Ferben February 8th ?

[ferben1994]

Yes how did ya guess

No

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

So. Two clubs became one.

 

In the meantime, fans developed split personalities.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Nowadays known as Dissociative Identity Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder. It would be quite frightening to switch between being a Caley man and a Jeggie of olde. Fortunately most ICT supporters have been able to blend the two with intermittent relapses based on repressed emotions, grief and post traumatic recalls. These are mainly caused by individuals who meet the criteria linked to "erseholes" who think that they know it all but are deluded and tend to write, read or listen to fabricated fairy tales.