Merger Talk

[Charles Bannerman]

 

I personally know dozens of ex Caley and Thistle fans that have never set foot inside the new stadium and who rejoice when ICT get beat .

 

I know a few who claim they don't attend ICT "because of the merger"....but when pushed on the subject it transpires that they rarely ever went to the football pre-merger anyway, so would hardly count as a lost fan.  It's almost as if it's just a convenient get out clause for many local OF supporters when challenged on why they don't support their local team as well.

 

The truth is, as I pointed out, the real "stay aways" are few and far between and are certainly have no significant impact on current crowds.

 

Donald.... I can also back that up since it's something I have also heard from time to time. (I know this must look bad and uncool, you and I agreeing with you so often... but what the hell - it's Christmas!!!

[Yngwie]

I personally know dozens of ex Caley and Thistle fans that have never set foot inside the new stadium and who rejoice when ICT get beat .

 

They must be on Prozac this season, poor souls.

[ForzaCaley]

I personally know dozens of ex Caley and Thistle fans that have never set foot inside the new stadium and who rejoice when ICT get beat .

 

Are you one of them?

[KingBeastie]

I personally know dozens of ex Caley and Thistle fans that have never set foot inside the new stadium and who rejoice when ICT get beat .

You should keep better company DC.

[ForzaCaley]

what i've always struggled to understand is the mentality of a County supporting refusenik

 

For example.....

'Hi i'm a Caley fan who hates the Jaggies so much i would rather support a proper Highland team like RCFC than some plastic franchise FC.'

 

'Hi, im a Thistle fan who hates all Caley tinks so much that i can't stand supporting a team in 'predominantly blue shirts' and would rather support County'

 

 

So now instead, both these hardcore Caley and Thistle fans who were against the merger are standing side by side the same people they are supposed to Loathe so much, not only that but the ex-jaggies are supporting a team in NAVY BLUE. 

 

Frankly, they deserve each other 

[SMEE]

Al tell you all this. ICT will NEVER come close in my affections as Caledonian FC did. Its all very well for the many of you on here who werent about at the time, or those who didnt support either team, to mock those ex Caley and Thistle fans who choose to stay away. You have NO inkling of what these teams meant to people. I openly admit my love for the game died, quite a bit, when The merger happened.

 

I have to ask.....where were the majority (of the ICT support) when it was only highland league football that was on offer? 

Edited December 20, 2012 by SMEE

[dougiedanger]

 

I personally know dozens of ex Caley and Thistle fans that have never set foot inside the new stadium and who rejoice when ICT get beat .

You should keep better company DC.

 

Bit unfair, as there are many so-called refuseniks who grew up with a real attachment to the old clubs, and who are 100% football people and all round good c**ts. 

[SMEE]

Oh....and i also happen to think that a Caley lone bid...or maybe thistle lone bid too...would have been more appealing to the people of inverness. I dont care what anyone says to the contrary

[Alex MacLeod]

Fact.....had any one of those teams gone it alone and been accepted into Scottish league system they'd probably still be a part time team wallowing in among the Brechin's, Montrose's and East Stirling's with, maybe, the odd foray into Div 2. As a part time team with a few hundred fans there would not have been the money to get us where we are now.

 

Not a fact at all - just an opinion!

 

And my opinion is that Caley, on their own could have done just as well as ICT have - possibly better because they wouldn't have had the merger baggage.

 

As the only Scottish League team in Inverness they would have attracted just as much investment as ICT have and would have made it into the SPL in a similar timescale, attracting larger crowds as they progressed.

 

Don't believe me? Look at Ross County!!

 

No comparison. ICT have stayed, barring one blip, in the top league for near a decade. Compare when and if RC can do the same.

[Alex MacLeod]

Al tell you all this. ICT will NEVER come close in my affections as Caledonian FC did. Its all very well for the many of you on here who werent about at the time, or those who didnt support either team, to mock those ex Caley and Thistle fans who choose to stay away. You have NO inkling of what these teams meant to people. I openly admit my love for the game died, quite a bit, when The merger happened.

 

I have to ask.....where were the majority (of the ICT support) when it was only highland league football that was on offer? 

In Glasgow supporting their true love.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Alex MacLeod

[buckett]

Sorry Buckett, I just can't buy into the notion that Caley would have done just as well on their own. Their fan base would have been so much smaller, Caley actually weren't that popular and indeed were even actively disliked  in Inverness outwith their own orbit, they would not have had the universal appeal that ICT had, would they have got in on their own in the first place?, and if they did they would only have had a fraction of the resources that ICT had. For instance, of the £4.8M stadium budget, at least £1.8M would not have been available to Caley since there was a lot of public funding they wouldn't have got and they wouldn't have had Thistle's asset contribution either.

 

 

A very linear and simplistic viewpoint, Charles, which I'm afraid just doesn't hold water. 

 

As you're probably aware, many years before the merger Caley had been trying to relocate with a view to Scottish League entry. I think there was a site in Carse which had been considered although the District Council had been very obstructive to this proposal. Had it gone ahead we would have had a Scottish League team in Inverness with a stadium within easy walking distance of thousands of houses and with room for expansion to accommodate the growing support. No need for £4.8M stadium budgets and no need for another team's assets. And with such an accessible stadium, attendances would probably exceed those of ICT now.

 

I mention this because there are so many ifs and buts that you can't just make a statement like "it couldn't have happened without the merger". Of course it could!

 

Also, I have to take exception to your statement that "Caley weren't that popular . . . actively disliked in Inverness." This is simply not true!

[The Mantis]

Fact.....had any one of those teams gone it alone and been accepted into Scottish league system they'd probably still be a part time team wallowing in among the Brechin's, Montrose's and East Stirling's with, maybe, the odd foray into Div 2. As a part time team with a few hundred fans there would not have been the money to get us where we are now.

 

Not a fact at all - just an opinion!

 

And my opinion is that Caley, on their own could have done just as well as ICT have - possibly better because they wouldn't have had the merger baggage.

 

As the only Scottish League team in Inverness they would have attracted just as much investment as ICT have and would have made it into the SPL in a similar timescale, attracting larger crowds as they progressed.

 

Don't believe me? Look at Ross County!!

 

 

No comparison. ICT have stayed, barring one blip, in the top league for near a decade. Compare when and if RC can do the same.

 

That's not what you said though Alex...... Brechin, Montrose, East Stirling?

Caley would have been good for Div 1 at least. Caley were a bigger club than those 3 even in the HL. Round about 1992 Caley had a wage bill of around £130 000.

[TopSix]

The shadows on Twitter are lapping this thread up.

[buckett]

 

 

Fact.....had any one of those teams gone it alone and been accepted into Scottish league system they'd probably still be a part time team wallowing in among the Brechin's, Montrose's and East Stirling's with, maybe, the odd foray into Div 2. As a part time team with a few hundred fans there would not have been the money to get us where we are now.

 

Not a fact at all - just an opinion!

 

And my opinion is that Caley, on their own could have done just as well as ICT have - possibly better because they wouldn't have had the merger baggage.

 

As the only Scottish League team in Inverness they would have attracted just as much investment as ICT have and would have made it into the SPL in a similar timescale, attracting larger crowds as they progressed.

 

Don't believe me? Look at Ross County!!

 

 

No comparison. ICT have stayed, barring one blip, in the top league for near a decade. Compare when and if RC can do the same.

 

 

No comparison!!??

 

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but Inverness is a much bigger town than Dingwall, with a much bigger fanbase.

 

And yet, looking further up your post, near the top, where you talk about a part-time team making the odd foray into Div 2 . . . . a few hundred fans!

 

I think our neighbours across the bridge have long exceeded that status!

 

Don't get me wrong - I like the way things have turned out with our merged team. But each of these teams could have gone it alone and achieved as much - no doubt about it!

[The Mantis]

 

Also, I have to take exception to your statement that "Caley weren't that popular . . . actively disliked in Inverness." This is simply not true!

 

Spot on. 3600 v Clyde and a 5500 sellout v St Johnstone suggests that, given the opportunity to boycott a Caley game, there were an awful lot of folks whose noses got the better of them!

[The Mantis]

The shadows on Twitter are lapping this thread up.

They've got feck all else to talk about anyway.

[Alex MacLeod]

Just been looking at crowd figures through all the leagues and there's a definite pattern. 1st season in SFL decent crowds averaging maybe 2,000. Cant be bothered doing the maths. Following season drops off quite a bit. Novelty's worn of. Then its the run to the league title and the crowds rise again. As they do for first season in Div2. Then they dwindle again till the run to the Div 2 title. Good crowds for 1st season in Div 1 then dwindles till the run to the div 1 title. Good gate for first couple of seasons in SPL then drops of a little each season. The blip brought about a bit of a drop that never really recovered much. I'd wager that if we get to a final and if we finish top three many will emerge out of the woodwork (or shadows) to follow us again for a time.

 

The above is just observations. I may make comment about merger but, to be honest, it doesn't really mean too much to me. I stopped watching football in my teens and never really got back into it till the end of the nineties. And even then it was Brockville I went to now and again.

[Renegade]

The shadows on Twitter are lapping this thread up.

 

Which is ironic as they have been "mongrels" far longer than we have (as my new signature suggests!).  There is a fundamental difference though.  Inverness Thistle (who are also a previous merger of themselves, Crown and Union) and Caledonian merged to form Caledonian Thistle in order to join the Scottish Football Leagues.  Dingwall United Victoria and Dingwall Thistle were two tiny provincial clubs who had to merge together to a former another tiny provincial team in order to join the big fancy Highland League (they somehow managed to gain a license to play in it's inaugural season in 1893 but had to resign - how embarrassing!).  They then merged proper in 1929, to form the glorified Muir of Ord Rovers that we all know today (they also had to change their original name from "Dingwall Victors" to "Ross County", probably to gather more support!).  

[lukemackay]

Al tell you all this. ICT will NEVER come close in my affections as Caledonian FC did. Its all very well for the many of you on here who werent about at the time, or those who didnt support either team, to mock those ex Caley and Thistle fans who choose to stay away. You have NO inkling of what these teams meant to people. I openly admit my love for the game died, quite a bit, when The merger happened.

I have to ask.....where were the majority (of the ICT support) when it was only highland league football that was on offer?

I was a twinkle in my fathers eye. So I would've been at Nairn county games with him. Sorry

[The Mantis]

 

The shadows on Twitter are lapping this thread up.

 

Which is ironic as they have been "mongrels" far longer than we have (as my new signature suggests!).  There is a fundamental difference though.  Inverness Thistle (who are also a previous merger of themselves, Crown and Union) and Caledonian merged to form Caledonian Thistle in order to join the Scottish Football Leagues.  Dingwall United Victoria and Dingwall Thistle were two tiny provincial clubs who had to merge together to a former another tiny provincial team in order to join the big fancy Highland League (they somehow managed to gain a license to play in it's inaugural season in 1893 but had to resign - how embarrassing!).  They then merged proper in 1929, to form the glorified Muir of Ord Rovers that we all know today (they also had to change their original name from "Dingwall Victors" to "Ross County", probably to gather more support!).  

 

Rene, I think you have the distinction of being the first one to rise to the bait after about 2 weeks :lol:

Their nickname for us hasn't exactly taken off even though they're SEETHING at their own nickname.

Did Culbokie Comets not figure somewhere in the mix then?

Edited December 20, 2012 by TheMantis

[The Mantis]

 

 

 no more than 226 people ever voted against the merger, even though recruitment by the anti merger faction was exhaustive.

 

Whereas the other side played by the rules

[Kingsmills]

Fact.....had any one of those teams gone it alone and been accepted into Scottish league system they'd probably still be a part time team wallowing in among the Brechin's, Montrose's and East Stirling's with, maybe, the odd foray into Div 2. As a part time team with a few hundred fans there would not have been the money to get us where we are now.

In all seriousness, I largely concur with that.At best a team yo yoing between the Second and First Divisions. Even with our combined resources we have come perilously close to having to revert to part time status more than once.

[SMEE]

 

Sorry Buckett, I just can't buy into the notion that Caley would have done just as well on their own. Their fan base would have been so much smaller, Caley actually weren't that popular and indeed were even actively disliked  in Inverness outwith their own orbit, they would not have had the universal appeal that ICT had, would they have got in on their own in the first place?, and if they did they would only have had a fraction of the resources that ICT had. For instance, of the £4.8M stadium budget, at least £1.8M would not have been available to Caley since there was a lot of public funding they wouldn't have got and they wouldn't have had Thistle's asset contribution either.

 

 

A very linear and simplistic viewpoint, Charles, which I'm afraid just doesn't hold water. 

 

As you're probably aware, many years before the merger Caley had been trying to relocate with a view to Scottish League entry. I think there was a site in Carse which had been considered although the District Council had been very obstructive to this proposal. Had it gone ahead we would have had a Scottish League team in Inverness with a stadium within easy walking distance of thousands of houses and with room for expansion to accommodate the growing support. No need for £4.8M stadium budgets and no need for another team's assets. And with such an accessible stadium, attendances would probably exceed those of ICT now.

 

I mention this because there are so many ifs and buts that you can't just make a statement like "it couldn't have happened without the merger". Of course it could!

 

Also, I have to take exception to your statement that "Caley weren't that popular . . . actively disliked in Inverness." This is simply not true!

 

I remember Caley taking nigh on 6000 to St Johnstone for a third round Scottish Cup Replay. ICT couldnt even muster that for National Semi Finals at the national stadium. 

[SMEE]

Anyone want to give me ONE shred of evidence why a lone Caley OR Thistle in the SFL would have been any less sucsessful than what ICT have acheived. I reckon they would have had a bigger, more loyal fanbase. And been every bit as enticing to the local business community. I think they would still have been able to attract the same calibre of player etc as ict did....and i see no reason why a lone Caley (or Thistle) wouldnt have been able to acheive the sucsess ICT has

Edited December 20, 2012 by SMEE

[lukemackay]

Anyone want to give me ONE shred of evidence why a lone Caley OR Thistle in the SFL would have been any less sucsessful than what ICT have acheived. I reckon they would have had a bigger, more loyal fanbase. And been every bit as enticing to the local business community.

You've had almost 20 years to find this out yourself. Why didnt you?