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The Big Scottish Independence Debate


Laurence

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Alex, Oddquine - your posts make it abundantly that you are really not familiar in the least with the ins and outs of Scottish education, from which I have just departed after 37 years on ther job. However I am interested that you should both be of the view that this service which, more than any other has been uniquely a Scottish product for so long, is so poor. This does not appear to reflect any great confidence on the part of either of you in Scotland's ability to organise its own affairs.

 

The Curriculum for Excellence is a poor product whose conspicuous features include a severe dumbing down and an almost paranoid rejection of knowledge as a virtue. Worse still it is being overseen by an Education minister whose incompetence is surpassed only by his utter conviction about his own infallibility.

On which subject... has Michael Russell emigrated? Or has he just been spending a lot of his time on St Kilda, making arrangements for a Correctional Facility for the Idealogically Unsound (like me :lol: ) which they will presumably want to set up there in the event of a yes vote?

On the other hand, if you were trying to cope with a daily tide of people telling you that your woolly wish list is complete mince, would you want to afford any public prominence at all to someone like Michael Russell? :laugh:  :laugh:

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Alex, Oddquine - your posts make it abundantly that you are really not familiar in the least with the ins and outs of Scottish education, from which I have just departed after 37 years on ther job. However I am interested that you should both be of the view that this service which, more than any other has been uniquely a Scottish product for so long, is so poor. This does not appear to reflect any great confidence on the part of either of you in Scotland's ability to organise its own affairs.

 

The Curriculum for Excellence is a poor product whose conspicuous features include a severe dumbing down and an almost paranoid rejection of knowledge as a virtue. Worse still it is being overseen by an Education minister whose incompetence is surpassed only by his utter conviction about his own infallibility.

On which subject... has Michael Russell emigrated? Or has he just been spending a lot of his time on St Kilda, making arrangements for a Correctional Facility for the Idealogically Unsound (like me :lol: ) which they will presumably want to set up there in the event of a yes vote?

On the other hand, if you were trying to cope with a daily tide of people telling you that your woolly wish list is complete mince, would you want to afford any public prominence at all to someone like Michael Russell? :laugh:  :laugh:

After a yes vote, people like yourself, with all that experience, could help build an education system that's the envy of the world.

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After a 'No' vote it'll pretty much be: muddling by, doing ok, ups and downs, pretty good place to live, could be worse...

 

After a 'Yes' vote it'll pretty much be: muddling by, doing ok, ups and downs, pretty good place to live, could be worse...

 

Just depends if you are desperate to carry a Scottish passport and exchange Scottish currency at Berwick or Carlisle...

 

Hope that clears it up.

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After a 'No' vote it'll pretty much be: muddling by, doing ok, ups and downs, pretty good place to live, could be worse...

 

After a 'Yes' vote it'll pretty much be: muddling by, doing ok, ups and downs, pretty good place to live, could be worse...

 

Just depends if you are desperate to carry a Scottish passport and exchange Scottish currency at Berwick or Carlisle...

 

Hope that clears it up.

Carry a european passport just now. Why would I change that?

I need to change currency to go out of Britian so whats the difference?

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The real issue here is why is William Banks emails being sent to you? This would never, ever happen in an independent Scotland. :fishing:

 

And yes, all political views are welcome, but please do a little background research before making outlandish claims. :wink:

 

 What do you mean the real issue - I don't understand that comment, the real issue is this pointless  exercise in bringing to a vote the asperations of a political party whose eyes are lighting up with the thoughts of outright power.

I am William Banks so I receive my e-mails ,  My Full name is William Laurence Banks, my father was William or Billy Banks, my mum didn't want big Bill and little Bill in the house so I was called Laurence.

 

On legel documents I do get addressed as William .

 

With regards to my e-mails I have very little security because it is a business e-mail address , I get a lot of orders through it, therefore I don't want to block any potential sales with security.

 

With regard to research, I am old enough to know my own mind, I don't need anyone else especially Salmond and Sturgeon telling me what to believe.

 

I was earning a living when they were in 3 cornered pants

 

I take independance to be like a divorce court. The judge asks why do you want a divorce to the wife?, who answers because I can manage on my own?.

It is not a case of managing it is a case of what is best for both partners, and divorce is not the answer.

 

We get a lot of talk on how we can manage as a separate state. But very little talk on why, we should want too.

 

Like I have said before my biggest worry is the Royal mail, if I lose the domestic rates to the UK, It will cost me at least £100 a week and probably more if the Royal mail leave Scotland. I travel a lot to England, I don't want to be paying for green card car Insurance, or getting a card to allow me to get medical facilities over the border, and if Scotland is forced by the EEC to join the Euro , to have to mess around with currency. Also when I travel abroad I want the back up of a UK passport, not some woolly document printed in Edinburgh  , where I will struggle to find a consulate or embassy to take care of me. Basically I don't want to live in a foreign country , Or I am sure hundreds and thousands of Scottish nationals living in England don't want to either.

 

This whole referendum business is a waste of money and time. I think the SNP are wasting a lot of public money on it.

 

I had a place in France for 17 years I know what a pain  travelling in a foreign land is. Why should the Scots want all this agro is beyond me,

 

As far as I can see just exercising the parish pump.

 

Remember way back all these months ago. Whats Laurence's arguements when his postage cost go up in a United Kingdom. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26728116

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A small selection from the Better Together Campaign's positive message to persuade us to vote NO to Independence :smile: .........

 

We’re positive there’ll be no currency union....in fact we are even positive that, on Independence, sterling will immediately become an untradeable currency especially to stop Scotland using it without a formal currency agreement;
We’re positive Scotland will be thrown out the EU and have to rejoin as a brand new country, which will take years and years and years;
We're positive Scotland will be forced, unlike any other EU country, to join the ERM and then adopt the Euro;
We’re positive all your businesses will head south ;
We're positive the oil will run out...if not tomorrow, then at some indeterminate time in the future, just as we said in 1979 and have been saying regularly since.....we're positive right now that there is hardly any left, and what is left won't last long;
We're positive you won't be able to afford your pensions (though we are not positive the UK Ponzi scheme isn't going to be in the same boat before too long.);
We're positive you won't be welcome in NATO if you get rid of Trident;
We're positive that, in an Independent Scotland, Salmond will become Mugabe/Kim Jong-Il/Milosevic/Hitler in a kilt (or tartan trews);
We're positive that a Scot or two in the Cabinet, a whole 59 representatives of Scottish constituencies in the 650 house Parliament, and a Scottish Parliament with pocket money to spend on what we allow it to be spent on, gives Scotland the best of both worlds (which means no real voice anywhere in the world, with all policies being dictated by Westminster without taking any notice of Scotland's preferences);
We're positive that UK participation in wars on behalf of USA business interests are good for Scotland....just look at all the Scottish citizens employed in the UK military services..
We're positive that it is worth Scotland getting the lowest level of CAP payments in the EU as long as the UK gets the EU rebate.
We're positive you won't be allowed to take part in the Eurovision song contest (even though Israel does)
We're positive that after Independence the island will be renamed to "not Britain" so nobody in an independent Scotland can,ever after, call themselves British.
We're positive that the BBC will work out how to stop only Scottish citizens in Scotland watching BBC programmes on any kind of receiver at all, even though they have not worked out yet what the BBC Charter means by unbiased and even-handed. (So good luck with that one, then, Beeb!)
We're positive Scotland won't get the AAA credit rating the UK has (or had before it started to slide down in the estimation of some agencies.)
We're positive that Scotland won't be able to cope with its share of the UK's £1.3 trillion debt.....and to make sure of that, we will increase it daily until the vote and beyond.
We're positive that things for Scotland will change if you vote NO....we don't know just what, we don't know just when, we don't know if it will be better or if it will be worse, we don't know if we will get any change through Westminster anyway, but honest....we are positive things for Scotland will change!
We're positive that apart from the unquantified change in Scottish devolution on a NO vote(as in previous positivity statement) nothing in the UK will change....we'll still renew Trident, still park it sixty miles from Glasgow, still roll back the Welfare State, still target the easy marks....the jobless, the disabled, the young, the workers on PAYE...and probably add the pensioners after 2015, still sell off the little family silver left in the UK to our pals in big business to make profits (which we hope will trickle down to us in the way of political donations, cushy jobs, shares etc), still sell off public service jobs to our pals in big business to make profits (which we hope will trickle down to us in the way of political donations, cushy jobs, shares etc), continue to produce tax laws which are so woolly and complicated that accountants make profits by working out how to get a coach and horses through them (and we hope their gratitude will trickle down to us in the way of political donations etc), continue to bankroll and schmooze all those bankers who would have been jailed, if the money they'd been playing fast and loose with had been handed to them directly in benefits, as fraudsters, continue to increase the numbers in the bloated unelected House of Lords to sodding ridiculous levels to reward all their cronies, donors, dunted MPs with an income and perks for the rest of their lives.

 

We're positive that come 2015,  it'll just be different zebras, very similar stripe patterns.......because our undemocratic voting system ensures that shades of right wing policies will produce different variations of the same policies.......not different policies.

 

We're positive Margaret Thatcher's legacy will live on regardless of which party is in charge...and we really can't see why Scots would have any problem with that.

 

Alistair Darling (NuLabour) the official face of Better Together, thinks that Project Fear is winning the economic argument...anyone who thinks the Union is winning the economic argument, care to provide chapter and verse as to why they agree with that belief?

 

Edited by Oddquine
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Found this interesting.......http://wingsoverscotland.com/before-the-oil-the-deluge/

 

There are photos of the info from the records.........but it appears that subsidised Scotland, in the year 1920-1921 (when the publication of the information was discontinued....I wonder why), and before the discovery of oil.......

 

Transmitted to the UK Treasury, the total of       £119,753,000.

Spent on Scottish Services the total of                £33,096,000

 

And £86,657,000 was retained in London for "Imperial Services"

 

Been saying to folk for years, and particularly since devolution, that the reason Scottish infrastructure, for example, is so flaming bad is because it was never a Westminster priority, and there is no way that 15 years of devolution could sort out the neglect of 300 years of the Union.. (though the Lab/LibDem Governments not handing back unspent Barnett money to Westminster might have helped a bit.).

 

The last photo simply illustrates that having MPs for English Constituencies forcing through bills applicable to Scotland, despite the majority of Scottish Constituency MPs voting against it, is not a new thing.....it has been happening all along...but we had neither the media or the internet in those days to make us aware of it.

 

And just noticed the figures over the time, from 1911 to 1921, when they did publish records (and we can see why they stopped doing it) are in this link  http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-historical-debt/

 

Not surprising that the 1920s had the highest emigration from Scotland of any decade on record.

Edited by Oddquine
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Good article but...

 

How does Scotland get rid of a UK government?  Answer: it can't.

 

How does Inverness get rid of an independent Scotland government?  Answer: it can't.

 

If the whole of Scotland votes Labour, they still won't be able to outpower the rest of the UK.

 

If the whole of the north votes Lib Dem, they still won't be able to outpower the Central Belt.

 

It's the same argument just at different levels.

 

The question is: at what level do you think government works best?  European? UK? Scotland?  Regional?

 

For me, it's a movable feast.

 

10 years ago, I would have argued for greater EU integration.  I now see the EU has moved far from their federal model to an anti-democratic centralised model, where banks can fine democratically-elected governments.  So for now, I see a strong UK as being able to pull back from this but an independent Scotland forced into accepting a more centralised EU.  With more democracy back in the EU (as was the dream previously), I'd quite happily consider independence.  So, for me, not now.

 

I know someone will talk about how someone said 'not this time' in the 70s and lived to regret it but that's what politics is.  Unless you are 'independence at any price' then it is a matter of timing.

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Good article but...

 

How does Scotland get rid of a UK government?  Answer: it can't.

 

How does Inverness get rid of an independent Scotland government?  Answer: it can't.

 

If the whole of Scotland votes Labour, they still won't be able to outpower the rest of the UK.

 

If the whole of the north votes Lib Dem, they still won't be able to outpower the Central Belt.

 

It's the same argument just at different levels.

 

The question is: at what level do you think government works best?  European? UK? Scotland?  Regional?

 

For me, it's a movable feast.

 

10 years ago, I would have argued for greater EU integration.  I now see the EU has moved far from their federal model to an anti-democratic centralised model, where banks can fine democratically-elected governments.  So for now, I see a strong UK as being able to pull back from this but an independent Scotland forced into accepting a more centralised EU.  With more democracy back in the EU (as was the dream previously), I'd quite happily consider independence.  So, for me, not now.

 

I know someone will talk about how someone said 'not this time' in the 70s and lived to regret it but that's what politics is.  Unless you are 'independence at any price' then it is a matter of timing.

I see where you're coming from on the EU issue but the chances are the UK will end up outside altogether with no chance of influence. As to your point about being outvoted by the central belt, with our (almost) pr system, we're already better represented in the Scottish Parliament. Certainly better than we are at Westminster with Danny boy at the wheel.

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Doesn't assuage the basic question though.

 

As for the EU, it has strayed so far from it's original goals, I'd be hard pressed to state an in/out preference but that's perhaps for another time.

 

You can't assuage the basic question, though...because that's democracy for you, starchief.  The majority trumps the minority, and if the majority is in one wee part of anywhere, then that is where the main focus will be. In the UK, it is London and the South..........in Scotland it will be the Central Belt. However, any party in Scotland which wants to be re-elected can't afford to ignore large swathes of the country...while Westminster parties don't need Scottish votes to be re-elected, not even NuLabour....so can ignore us with impunity.

 

We have utterly flawed "democracy" in Westminster, which the UK appears happy to keep.... the Inverness and Nairn constituency voted against removing the undemocratic FPTP system, as did the rest of the Highlands and Islands, after all...so being a  tiny gog in a ginormous wheel appears to suit the Scots voter even better than being a slightly bigger cog in a much smaller wheel (which would assuage the basic question, if assuage, in your mind, means making less intense...as in mitigating the effects) ....though I guess the FPTP system helps maintain the chip supported by the UK security blanket round Scottish shoulders.

 

I really can't see any logic in saying that it is more beneficial to Inverness and area (Highlands and Islands) to have 1.08% (7)  of 100% (650) MPs or 13.6%(7) of  9.07% (59) of 100% (650) than 11.6%(15) of 100% (129)....particularly in a Scottish Parliament which, even with the current PR system, is unlikely to have many majority Governments and will usually require a measure of compromise to pass bills. 

 

Much as I dislike the EU, (being an EFTA fan)...equally, I can see no logic in the notion that 6 EU MPs, elected by Scotland, out of a total of 73 representing mainly UK interests, are more beneficial to Scotland's interests than a dedicated Scottish representative in every EU committee from the EU Commission downwards and at least as many EU MPs as the likes of Denmark (13). 

 

With direct Scottish representation, Scottish farmers would at least do better out of CAP, if nothing else, rather than receiving currently at the third lowest CAP level in the EU. As a whole entity, the UK has a smaller agricultural sector than the likes of France, hence the UK rebate, but Scotland, within the UK, has a per-capita agricultural sector much larger than that of the UK as a whole...but does not receive the benefits it would be due..and does not get those lost benefits made up from the rebate, which goes direct to Westminster.

 

I hope that some political party will give us a vote on EU membership at some stage.....but I'd be reluctant to say "no thanks" to EU membership right now, before negotiations are completed and benefits (or otherwise) are felt. We can't judge the effects of the EU in an Independent Scotland on how the UK deals with it/benefits(or otherwise) from it.  It's a bit like the "nay-sayers" trumpeting that we can't afford to do this, that or the other because they assume we will follow slavishly all the policies currently in train in the UK, and spend our income on exactly the same bloated levels of incompetence and uselessness as we are forced to by dint of having the bulk of our UK input spent "on our behalf".

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It's long, admittedly..........but it shows that the Unionist mindset has not changed one iota since 1995.  George Robertson as he was then, and Lord Baron Robertson of Port Ellen, KT CGMG, FRSA, FRSE, PC , as he is now, toes the Westminster line by offering only the benefits to the Union from Scotland and not the benefits to Scotland from the Union. 

 

Have to say, I don't remember George Robertson choosing to ditch the Westminster gravy train in 1999 to stand for election to Holyrood.....in fact, I believe he buggered off,in 1999, to join the NATO gravy train and become the only Secretary General of NATO to not get a second term in the job! So how incompetent does that make him?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-2A47U5PQ

 

 

Not a lot has changed in the intervening years, imo...bar George Robertson talks crap now clothed in ermine as an unelected unionist placeman with a lifetime sinecure, rather than an elected unionist placeman chasing his future directorships and lecture tour income. He amply illustrates what is wrong with UK politics.

Edited by Oddquine
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IF you have any sense of irony.you just gotta love this!  (C&P'd from Bella Caledonia.because even less would read it if I just linked to it.)

 

I Shall Vote NO

[After Christopher Logue, I Shall Vote Labour (1966)]
By A.R. Frith

 

I shall vote No because, without Westminster, We’d never have got rid of the Poll Tax

I shall vote No because eight hundred thousand Scots live in England, and there are no jobs here to match their talents and meet their aspirations

I shall vote No, because my grandmother was a MacDougall

I shall vote No in case Shell and BP leave and take their oil with them

I shall vote No because otherwise we would have to give back the pandas

I shall vote No because I am feart

I shall vote No because the people who promised us a better deal if we voted No in 79, and warned us of the dire consequences of devolution in 97, tell us we should

I shall vote No so as not to let down my fellow socialists in Billericay and Basildon

and

I shall vote No, because if we got rid of Trident and stopped taking part in illegal wars we would be a target for terrorism

I shall vote No because if I lived under a government that listened to me and had policies I agreed with, I wouldn’t feel British

I shall vote No because the RAF will bomb our airports if we are a separate country

I shall vote No because to vote Yes dishonours the Dead of the Great War, who laid down their lives for the rights of small nations

I shall vote No, lest being cut off from England turns Red Leicester cheese and Lincolnshire sausages into unobtainable foreign delicacies, like croissants, or bananas

I shall vote No, because, as a progressive, I have more in common with Billy Bragg or Tariq Ali, who aren’t Scottish, than some toff like Lord Forsyth, who is.

I shall vote No, because the certainty of billions of pounds worth of spending cuts to come is preferable to the uncertainty of wealth

I shall vote No, because it is blindingly obvious that Scotlands voice at the UN, and other international bodies, will be much diminished if we are a member-state

I shall vote No because having a parliament with no real power, and another which is run by people we didnt vote for, is the best of both worlds

I shall vote No because I trust and admire Nick Clegg, who is promising us Federalism when the Liberals return to office

I shall vote No, because Emma Thompson would vote No, and her Dad did The Magic Roundabout

I shall vote No, because A.C. Grayling would vote No,and his Mum was born on Burns Night

I shall vote No because David Bowie asked Kate Moss to tell us to, and he lives in New York and used to be famous

I shall vote No, because nobody ever asks me what I think

I shall vote No, because a triple-A credit rating is vital in the modern world

I shall vote No because things are just fine as they are

I shall vote No because the English say they love us,

and that if we vote Yes, they will wreck our economy.

 

And if you're still in the mood for more.......this is quite amusing as well.......a sample of the goodies on offer http://thescottishscaremonger.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2014-03-10T17:18:00-07:00&max-results=7&reverse-paginate=true

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At last, the positive Better Together Campaign, they have been promising for the last year and more.....and it started fairly well with the first photo which was tweeted.....I wouldn't go so far as to say truthful....and could certainly argue that it is doing what Westminster does so well...promising jam tomorrow, maybe, perhaps.....but certainly more positive.....as there isn't a NO in sight!

post-4751-0-11995600-1398107331.jpg

 

And from there it was downhill with the first couple of billboards......though the NO is certainly more polite than all the other ways they have managed to say NO so far.

 

post-4751-0-72822000-1398107616.jpg

 

and

 

post-4751-0-99566900-1398107826.jpg

 

 

Shame it's all a load of crock, isn't it?

 

And if anyone wants.I'll tell you why! :wink:

Edited by Oddquine
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The better together campaign are asking voters to put a cross in the "No" box so it stands to reason that the word "No" will feature prominently in their advertising campaign.  If the question on the ballot paper was "Do you want Scotland to remain within the United Kingdom?" then the advertising might be "Do you want to keep using the pound?  Yes please!"  To suggest the use of the word "No" in this context is negative really is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in this campaign.

 

 

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The better together campaign are asking voters to put a cross in the "No" box so it stands to reason that the word "No" will feature prominently in their advertising campaign.  If the question on the ballot paper was "Do you want Scotland to remain within the United Kingdom?" then the advertising might be "Do you want to keep using the pound?  Yes please!"  To suggest the use of the word "No" in this context is negative really is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in this campaign.

 

:rotflmao:  Thought that might get a bite. 

 

I was going to say that the second two posters were variations on a theme which has been done to death already (the pound one) and one which that great economics guru and pension stealer, Gordon Brown is going to scare the crap out of us at length in Glasgow tomorrow (and on the telly and in the papers for the next few days)......but thought simpler was better.

 

Sorry! :blush:

 

Edited to add....spot the difference in headlines.between those for consumption North and South of the Border regarding Pensions. :ohmy:

post-4751-0-22423600-1398159650.jpg

 

Edited by Oddquine
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Why is it that only the Scots who live in Scotland get to vote on Independence?  Surely the Scots who live outside of Scotland and outside of the U.K. have the right to vote on Scottish Independence -  and if not -  why not?

 

Personally I would like to vote in this referendum.  I am a Highlander born and bred. Like many of my compatriots I am now living overseas ( in NZ ).  Surely we are all entitled to vote.  

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It's a good question, culduthel. I'm interested to see what replies you get from the more regular posters on this thread.

I heard that the exclusion of the expat vote (around one million) is likely to be challenged in 'the courts'.

 

It would appear to me that the vote is for the-people-of-Scotland (those persons domiciled in Scotland, regardless of nationality) rather than for Scottish people, per se., if that makes sense.

 

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Why is it that only the Scots who live in Scotland get to vote on Independence?

 

It is easy to justify either the inclusion or exclusion of Scots not currently residing here, but ultimately the ones living outwith Scotland have been excluded because they are less insular and are therefore far more likely to vote No.

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Why should the rules to vote in the referendum be any different to those for any election that determines the political direction of Scotland?  If ex pat scots were to be allowed to vote then how on earth would you define who is a Scot  and who is not.  The only way you can realistically vote is based on your residency.  If you have chosen to move away from Scotland then why should you have a vote which impacts on those of us who actually live here?

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Why is it that only the Scots who live in Scotland get to vote on Independence?

 

It is easy to justify either the inclusion or exclusion of Scots not currently residing here, but ultimately the ones living outwith Scotland have been excluded because they are less insular and are therefore far more likely to vote No.

 

Insular??? By that logic, every country ever to claim it's independence must also be insular. I don't think it's insular to want to stand up in the world and engage with the world on your own terms. Westminster s plan for a referendum on EU? Now that must be insular too then?

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Why should the rules to vote in the referendum be any different to those for any election that determines the political direction of Scotland?  If ex pat scots were to be allowed to vote then how on earth would you define who is a Scot  and who is not.  The only way you can realistically vote is based on your residency.  If you have chosen to move away from Scotland then why should you have a vote which impacts on those of us who actually live here?

 

But this referendum is not like "any election".  It is about permanent independence for Scotland - the land of my birth and the country that defines my nationality and my passport.  It is about a matter which has the potential to significantly ( and permanently ) alter and affect my identity and status and the identity and status of all Scots living outside Scotland for the rest of their lives. Yet we/they are not allowed a voice! 

 

I am being told that because I don't live physically in Scotland I get no say in the matter of my Nationality, passport and status being changed forever.

 

I now know what it feels like to have my human rights ignored, abused and violated while people stand by unconcerned and uncaring.

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Why should the rules to vote in the referendum be any different to those for any election that determines the political direction of Scotland?  If ex pat scots were to be allowed to vote then how on earth would you define who is a Scot  and who is not.  The only way you can realistically vote is based on your residency.  If you have chosen to move away from Scotland then why should you have a vote which impacts on those of us who actually live here?

 

But this referendum is not like "any election".  It is about permanent independence for Scotland - the land of my birth and the country that defines my nationality and my passport.  It is about a matter which has the potential to significantly ( and permanently ) alter and affect my identity and status and the identity and status of all Scots living outside Scotland for the rest of their lives. Yet we/they are not allowed a voice! 

 

I am being told that because I don't live physically in Scotland I get no say in the matter of my Nationality, passport and status being changed forever.

 

I now know what it feels like to have my human rights ignored, abused and violated while people stand by unconcerned and uncaring.

 

So what you are saying is, that you, and others like you, having freely chosen to live furth of Scotland, should forever get to decide the direction Scotland takes.....even though you aren't going to have to live with the consequences?  You believe you, and others like you, have the human right, (though not a legal one), to decide for me, and for all of us who have freely chosen to stay in the land of our birth, and make our lives here...and for all those who have freely chosen to come and make their homes and lives in Scotland...our political future.... even though it is going to make no real impact on your life?

 

Scotland will always be the land of your birth, and the land which has shaped you and defined your nationality, as it has mine.  Scotland is not  going anywhere physically, but is just trying to extricate itself from a political union which no longer works for us, and for which no ordinary Scot voted in the first instance. After Independence, you will still be a Scot....and still British.

 

Would you advocate that the five million Scots in Canada get to permanently decide the future for the five million people actually  living and working in Scotland?  Do you think that my cousin and his family in Australia, with dual British/Australian citizenship should be able to cast  four votes on the future of Scotland and the Scots from thousands of miles away, with no intentions of ever living here permanently again, four votes which may well completely cancel out the three votes cast by me and my children who will be here, living with the consequences,for the rest of our lives?

 

Why would your status change if we vote for independence?  Will you be any less of a Scot, or any less British?  You will still be a Scot, living furth of Scotland, with a UK passport..just as you are now....and will certainly be until March 2016.  Whether rUk will allow dual nationality with Scotland is still up in the air, as I haven't seen anything which says they will definitely.....but then making definite decisions, before the vote, loses them a scaremongering opportunity. However, if they set their face against it, but allow it for other countries...then you would really have to think that getting out of a Union dominated by a load of huffy childish politicians was a very good idea. Though, even if they do allow dual nationality, if you are already a New Zealand passport holder.you would have to choose Scottish or UK, as triple nationality is not yet on the global radar.

Edited by Oddquine
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