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The Big Scottish Independence Debate


Laurence

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I got a lot of flack from the Yes vote and an SNP feeding frenzy

- see below

The Big Scottish Independence Debate

Posted by Kingsmills on 10 November 2013 - 12:38 PM in Serious Topics

Laurence, on 10 Nov 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I don't know why this debate rambles on

The Independence debate is dead in the water

And I suspect so are the prospects for the furore of the SNP

( reply was) A year to go and many twists and turns yet despite the disingenuous doom momgers.

There indeed be a bit of a furore but the future of the SNP is assured.

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The SNP do have a leader! But, like all parties, eventually do, will be seeking a new one shortly.

I disagree. They (SNP) most certainly have a future - they're not going away! They are running the Scottish Parliament, and will be until at least 2016 - when, I predict, they'll again be the biggest party.

Not directly 'attacking' you, Laurence, as your views are a broadly, a microcosm of what's been bugging me since the referendum.

This air of arrogance which I find particularly annoying, as, I have since transferred my allegiances to YES -  and am feeling mugged-off and frankly embarrassed and naive for voting NO.

I watched a 'post-mortem' on Scotland Tonight, last night and that man, Pat Kane, amongst others, talks a lot of sense.

A very interesting point mentioned, re. media bias, was the statistic that of 31 'print publications' (newspapers, Sundays's etc.), only one backed YES! In a poll where 45% voted YES in a turnout of 85%!!! Something very wrong there.

Bring on the next referendum. Lessons have been learned and next time, the result will be very, and irrevocably, different!!

SCOTLAND!

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A year later the No Vote had a 33% lead over the Yes - I was right Dead in The Water

I was also right the SNP - Now have no leader , No money and No future.

 

One so aged and wise will no doubt see the broader sweep of history and realize that the referendum was a crucial stage in the independence process, not an end in itself but the beginning of the end of the union.

 

My only hope is that you will still be around to see that day.

 

Maybe by then you will have composed a single coherent sentence on CTO.

 

Hope springs eternal. :smile:

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A very interesting point mentioned, re. media bias, was the statistic that of 31 'print publications' (newspapers, Sundays's etc.), only one backed YES!

 

That's a stat that has been trotted out for the last few months, and it is clearly intended to imply that the other 30 were against independence when that isn't the case at all.

 

Barring the likes of the Daily Mail and the Torygraph (which nobody reads up here anyway) you would have been be hard pushed to notice a bias in most papers.  I walked past a news stand every day, interested to see what the papers were saying.  Scotland's biggest paper, the Record, would be classed as a No paper but was clearly aware that about half its readers were Yessers and gave plenty of coverage to both sides of the debate. 

 

post-50-0-14894700-1412173498.png  post-50-0-93587300-1412173513.jpg

 

The next biggest, The Sun, just avoided the serious issues and would look for a humorous angle every day.  Probably the best approach! However, Salmond's years of schmoozing Rupert Murdoch nearly paid off and The Sun was reportedly very close to coming out fully in favour of Yes on a number of occasions, and would certainly have done so if they had believed Yes was going to win, but the Sun doesn't back losers, so it stayed on the fence.

 

The other point here is that newspapers have faced a massive decline in sales and have never been so uninfluential. People get their news and information from other sources these days - more folk would regularly read Wings Over Scotland than read most of our newspapers. 

 

And from what I could see, Yes had almost complete control over social media, where (mis)information spreads rapidly and without question. My wife's Facebook feed was always full of neat graphics made by Yes supporteers containing half truths, conspiracy theories, out of date figures and fabricated quotes, all liked and shared by tens of thousands. Hat's off to them, that's the way to run a campaign in the modern era!

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A year later the No Vote had a 33% lead over the Yes - I was right Dead in The Water

I was also right the SNP - Now have no leader , No money and No future.

 

That will be the party that have more than doubled their membership in the last fortnight and who now have almost as many members in Scotland than all the other parties combined and far more than the Liberal Democrats throughout the UK.

 

There have been a lot of good, valuable and intelligent contributions made by supporters of the Union on this thread. Some on the other hand can simply be dismissed as incoherent, inarticulate and unintelligent ramblings...

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There have been a lot of good, valuable and intelligent contributions made by supporters of the Union on this thread. Some on the other hand can simply be dismissed as incoherent, inarticulate and unintelligent ramblings...

 

Those would be the contributions made by opponents of the union, I take it? :whistle:

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The next biggest, The Sun, just avoided the serious issues and would look for a humorous angle every day.  Probably the best approach! However, Salmond's years of schmoozing Rupert Murdoch nearly paid off and The Sun was reportedly very close to coming out fully in favour of Yes on a number of occasions, and would certainly have done so if they had believed Yes was going to win, but the Sun doesn't back losers, so it stayed on the fence.

 

The Daily Star probably did even better still since during the campaign it managed seldom to depart from its standard front page agenda of who is copulating with whom on Big Brother, the latest spat among X Factor judges or which female participant in Strictly Come Dancing was wearing the least clothes.

The Sun is a pretty cynical publication since it knows exactly how to wind up and manipulate its not terribly cerebral readership. And, as Yngwie says, is adept at jumping on to the side of whoever it thinks will win. That reminds me of Churchill's description of Italy joining World War 2 as Hitler was on the point of defeating France in 1940 as "rushing to the aid of the victor". Many of us will remember the "It's The Sun Wot Won It" headline after the 1992 election.

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However that is not entirely unexpected, given that for the last 3 odd years the only thing they have given a toss about has been their Referendum.

 

Wow! A party that honours its manifesto. Whatever next  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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And from what I could see, Yes had almost complete control over social media, where (mis)information spreads rapidly and without question. My wife's Facebook feed was always full of neat graphics made by Yes supporteers containing half truths, conspiracy theories, out of date figures and fabricated quotes, all liked and shared by tens of thousands. Hat's off to them, that's the way to run a campaign in the modern era!

 

People did question it though. Every time I saw something negative featuring on a Yes page there were always people warning that they should not be coming across like the No campaign.

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When did you have an original thought?

You speak on issues brought forward by others never can I remember you putting forward an original view.

You gun from the side-lines and think it is funny

You pertain to speak on behalf of the club. When I suspect you don't have any genuine connection with running the club

you are not in my book a person to be respected.

Any body who brings a guys personal life into a perfectly honest question about a lack of a scoreboard at the club who resorts to personal abuse for no reason I can see does not deserve any respect.

I think the reason you post on this forum is to show off to your mates, cut it out and grow up.

 

I'm sure Kingsmills is big enough and ugly enough to speak for himself but I see you're using your mind-reading talents to try and get a position as a moderator.

I think a few weeks working in a modern comprehensive would be enough to disabuse you of the daft notion that a person is worthy of respect simply for having spent a lot of years on the planet.

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I think a few weeks working in a modern comprehensive would be enough to disabuse you of the daft notion that a person is worthy of respect simply for having spent a lot of years on the planet.

 

As well as to have you asking why on earth about a third of the population are afforded the responsibility of having a vote when they won't have the blindest scooby about the issues relating to what they are voting for?

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Reports are coming through to New Zealand about a conspiracy group who rigged the vote at the referendum in favor of  the No vote.

 

Seemingly Yes voters believe that a coalition of Elvis, George W Bush, The Shooter from the Grassy Knoll, Senior Freemasons and Senior Illuminati gathered in Roswell with various Alien species and hatched a very successful plot to overturn the Yes vote.  Upwards of 100,000 Yes supporters have seemingly signed a petition in protest and are demanding a recount or another referendum. 

 

Is this all true?

The list which has reached NZ is actually incomplete. You are clearly not aware of the thick wad of 400,000 false papers marked "NO" that Lord Lucan smuggled in, hidden up Shergar's backside.

 

 

It turns out you are correct Charles.  Reports coming through now confirm your additions.  Also it seems the whole conspiracy was orchestrated by the Elders Of Zion who have been hiding Lord Lucan and Shergar in the Bermuda Triangle for the last few decades in preparation for just such an event as the Referendum.  Seemingly the Chemtrails that were spotted across Scotland the day before the referendum are a "No Gas" that approximately 55 percent of the population would be sensitive to.  What devious people they are.

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Reports are coming through to New Zealand about a conspiracy group who rigged the vote at the referendum in favor of  the No vote.

 

Seemingly Yes voters believe that a coalition of Elvis, George W Bush, The Shooter from the Grassy Knoll, Senior Freemasons and Senior Illuminati gathered in Roswell with various Alien species and hatched a very successful plot to overturn the Yes vote.  Upwards of 100,000 Yes supporters have seemingly signed a petition in protest and are demanding a recount or another referendum. 

 

Is this all true?

The list which has reached NZ is actually incomplete. You are clearly not aware of the thick wad of 400,000 false papers marked "NO" that Lord Lucan smuggled in, hidden up Shergar's backside.

 

 

It turns out you are correct Charles.  Reports coming through now confirm your additions.  Also it seems the whole conspiracy was orchestrated by the Elders Of Zion who have been hiding Lord Lucan and Shergar in the Bermuda Triangle for the last few decades in preparation for just such an event as the Referendum.  Seemingly the Chemtrails that were spotted across Scotland the day before the referendum are a "No Gas" that approximately 55 percent of the population would be sensitive to.  What devious people they are.

 

 

And four counting staff at the Highland referendum count in Dingwall were sacked on the night for giving thumbs up and high fiving each other when they opened Yes votes whilst booing when they opened NO votes. Meanwhile EVERY SINGLE OTHER count official in Scotland was signed up personally by Elvis for the Elders of Zion or by the Most Worshipful Master The Lord Lucan for the Winston Churchill Westminster Grand Lodge Loyal No. 1707.

 

PS - ONE of these statements is actually TRUE! :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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Reports are coming through to New Zealand about a conspiracy group who rigged the vote at the referendum in favor of  the No vote.

 

Seemingly Yes voters believe that a coalition of Elvis, George W Bush, The Shooter from the Grassy Knoll, Senior Freemasons and Senior Illuminati gathered in Roswell with various Alien species and hatched a very successful plot to overturn the Yes vote.  Upwards of 100,000 Yes supporters have seemingly signed a petition in protest and are demanding a recount or another referendum. 

 

Is this all true?

The list which has reached NZ is actually incomplete. You are clearly not aware of the thick wad of 400,000 false papers marked "NO" that Lord Lucan smuggled in, hidden up Shergar's backside.

 

 

It turns out you are correct Charles.  Reports coming through now confirm your additions.  Also it seems the whole conspiracy was orchestrated by the Elders Of Zion who have been hiding Lord Lucan and Shergar in the Bermuda Triangle for the last few decades in preparation for just such an event as the Referendum.  Seemingly the Chemtrails that were spotted across Scotland the day before the referendum are a "No Gas" that approximately 55 percent of the population would be sensitive to.  What devious people they are.

 

 

And four counting staff at the Highland referendum count in Dingwall were sacked on the night for giving thumbs up and high fiving each other when they opened Yes votes whilst booing when they opened NO votes. Meanwhile EVERY SINGLE OTHER count official in Scotland was signed up personally by Elvis for the Elders of Zion or by the Most Worshipful Master The Lord Lucan for the Winston Churchill Westminster Grand Lodge Loyal No. 1707.

 

PS - ONE of these statements is actually TRUE! :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:  :rotflmao:

 

 

They are all true if you are a Yes voter.

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Indeed they may well be :smile: , and the four clowns at the Highland count just go to emphasise the juvenile level at which the SNP traditionally goes about its business, such as plastering the place with an unseemly plethora of posters every time there's an election and giving out badges to canvassers for getting five converts to Yes - upgraded (whoopee!) to a pen if you get ten.

What were they giving for 20? Early Learning vouchers? I hope Inverness recipients cashed theirs in before the shop closed for the last time yesterday!

 

In fact, I wonder if the fathers of the four said clowns were among the morons I saw chanting and shouting on the steps of Inverness Town Hall when Russell Johnston gave the SNP candidate a right electoral roasting four decades ago.

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A year later the No Vote had a 33% lead over the Yes - I was right Dead in The Water

I was also right the SNP - Now have no leader , No money and No future.

 

Increased membership 3 fold in 2 weeks, even at the lowest possible membership subscription that's an extra £600,000 in the kitty and at the recommended subscription rate £1.8m and many new members will no doubt have put in more than the minimum or recommended subs. Still weighing up whether to join the SNP or Greens, leaning towards the SNP - must decide soon! Was a much easier decision on Sept 18th.

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Indeed they may well be :smile: , and the four clowns at the Highland count just go to emphasise the juvenile level at which the SNP traditionally goes about its business, such as plastering the place with an unseemly plethora of posters every time there's an election and giving out badges to canvassers for getting five converts to Yes - upgraded (whoopee!) to a pen if you get ten.

 

What a right shower of bastards  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

A Yes shop in Glasgow was set alight the week before the vote and Jim Sillars gets abuse about his dead wife, but meanwhile there are actually people at large who put up posters?

Death by anecdote. Get a life Charles.

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I think a few weeks working in a modern comprehensive would be enough to disabuse you of the daft notion that a person is worthy of respect simply for having spent a lot of years on the planet.

 

As well as to have you asking why on earth about a third of the population are afforded the responsibility of having a vote when they won't have the blindest scooby about the issues relating to what they are voting for?

 

 

Steady on there Charles, I know quite a few people over seventy who have made a point of keeping abreast of current affairs. You can't just generalise and dismiss them all in that fashion.

Edited by Kingsmills
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