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The Big Scottish Independence Debate


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Barack Obama wants the union to remain the way it is so that's the debate over as far as I'm concerned

Dougal

 

Why should what Obama wants be the end of the debate?  He doesn't actually endorse either side either and regardless the debate will go on.

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Barack Obama wants the union to remain the way it is so that's the debate over as far as I'm concerned

Dougal

 

Why should what Obama wants be the end of the debate?  He doesn't actually endorse either side either and regardless the debate will go on.

 

 

You replied to a Dougal post taking it seriously. That qualifies for a woosh...

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Barack Obama wants the union to remain the way it is so that's the debate over as far as I'm concerned

Dougal

 

Why should what Obama wants be the end of the debate?  He doesn't actually endorse either side either and regardless the debate will go on.

 

 

You replied to a Dougal post taking it seriously. That qualifies for a woosh...

 

 

:sad:

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Good article here http://wingsoverscotland.com/its-about-democracy-stupid/  from a guest contributor on Wings.

 

C&Ping it to here....(bar the cartoon), so folk don't have to ignore the link. Luckily it is in short paras for those who are allergic to reading long tortuous sentences/paragraphs.......like what I produce!

 

“Great Britain” began with the Union of the Crowns in 1603, when James the VI of Scotland ascended to the Throne of England and Ireland, but the “United Kingdom” didn’t come into existence until the Act of Union in 1707, which effectively dissolved the Scottish Parliament. The “British Empire” began with the Union with Scotland and, if those in support of a Yes vote have their way, it will end with Scottish independence.

 

But what’s any of that got to do with Barack Obama?

 

I can ask that because I’m an American. If a native Scot tries to do so they’re likely be dismissed as backward and chippy “Bravehearts”. But ever since that morning in 1707 when Scots awoke to the news that their Parliament had been dissolved by a handful of lords and rioted in the streets, through the joys of the battle of Culloden, the Highland Clearances, and so on all the way to the brutality of Thatcherism in the 1980s it’s been clear who benefits most from this political construct.

 

Much has been written about how the upcoming independence referendum represents a divorce between Scotland and England. But if we’re making relationship analogies, let’s just say that historically the British government is a power-hungry polygamist and Scotland is just the latest in a long line of unwilling wives to leave.

 

This is how we’re so sure that the many of the threats that emanate from Westminster are indeed bluffs. We’ve rung up all of Britain’s exes: the USA, India, Ireland (and the entirety of the Commonwealth), and we can see that whilst the UK government can be an abusive partner and often behaves dreadfully during a break-up, once the deed is done they become much more cordial with their their former flames, because it’s in their best interests. Heck, they even send the Royalty around periodically for grand visits just to be friendly.

 

Another fact is clear too – whilst all nations have their ups and downs, absolutely none of the countries that have broken up with Westminster have ever come crawling back.

 

It’s very hard to communicate to people in the United States the level of centralisation of government within the UK. When most who hear why, as a “New Scot” from the States, I support a Yes Vote, they often look at me in puzzlement and say, “Well, that’s like supporting North Dakota leaving the USA”.

 

Not quite. Scotland is a nation of just over 5 million people, a similar size to Ireland, Denmark, New Zealand and Norway, and we balance our budget on pocket-money grudgingly returned to us from our own taxes by Westminster. We don’t control the revenues from our oil & gas industry, our whisky, water, fishing, farming or tourism.

 

The smallest of towns in anywhere USA has far more tax-raising power AND spending control than the entirety of Scotland. Most towns, counties or states can set sales tax (VAT), property tax, alcohol sales and even borrow to invest in their infrastructure. We have minimal representation in Westminster and far less in the European Parliament in Brussels than we would if we were independent.

 

The entire strategy of the No campaign has been to overwhelm people with doubts about whether Scotland could manage these tasks that are second-nature to small US towns, leaving the average voter to believe that they need a degree in international law to cast a vote. I listen to a lot of BBC World Service radio in the wee small hours, and night after night I hear these brave journalists travel to the farthest-flung corners of the globe to interview, analyse and report on an impressive array of topics.

 

However, when it comes to reporting on most issues in Scotland, it seems that we’re a no-go area. Rather, the majority of the media prefer to rely on some London-based hairdresser or a celebrity who maybe had a Scottish granny or went on occasional holidays to Skye for all first-hand knowledge of the situation. We are not known or much cared about in what’s supposedly our own country, even three centuries on. It’s time to face the reality, and start seeing other people.

 

The referendum is an amazing opportunity for the people who choose to call Scotland home to partake in a political process in which their votes will actually matter.

 

Together we could craft a constitution to reflect the needs and values of our community, and make sure that each person within Scotland can actually share in the bounty of her many resources. Priorities such as our NHS, free tuition, affordable childcare and a welfare system that doesn’t harass and demonise the sick, disabled and elderly can be protected in a way that we simply can’t do now.

 

There will be bumps in the road, the outside world will still exist and influence us – but we can finally speak with our own voice and at least have a chance of being heard.

 

I believe in real representative democracy. I believe in accountability. I believe that the status quo is not as good as it gets, and I believe a better Scotland is possible. Where my ancestors had to fight with rifles and cannon to free themselves from London rule, I’m voting Yes to begin that process of making that better future happen. My President should be able to understand that, and get out of the way.

 

 

 

 

 

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So, in which country were you actually born, Oddquine? The United States or Scotland?

Scotland, of course.  The best (and most abused) little country in the world!  Why you asking?

Edited by Oddquine
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Dunno!

Maybe because I misread the quote as being partly yours.

'Cos this thread has got my head upside down , my emotions in a whirl and my emoticoms  going berserk :cry::wink::smile::sad::ohmy::blush::laugh::lol::crazy:

 

Oh an before I forget when I now click on the "SHOW ALL" for emoticoms nothing happens when I try to ouick up one of tyhem and paste it into the thread?

 

Can someone please assist in this  challenging situation?

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Think Colin Fox did well....loved his bit about the double-dip delusion being promulgated on us by Westminster with their "Better Together" mantra, (from about 2.35 mins in). He kinda discomboblutated the interviewer, who drew proceedings quickly to a close! :lol:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=WGQw1E5zWBA

 

 

Edited to add a link to this http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/100-days-until-the-door-opens/

 

But in case nobody reads it...the last few paragraphs.....

 

Compare and contrast. What sort of country do you want to live in. You can live in a land of hope, or you can live in the land of the po-faced and the pettit lip. A country where you’re told what’s good for you while the rich get ever richer and inequalities widen, where emigration in search of work is described as a Union benefit. Or an independent country governed by people who live here, people we can vote out of office if they do not live up to our expectations.

 

A Slovene friend once told me why he supported independence for his small country. He said: I love my country because it is small and harmless, and it needs people to look after it.

 

This small and harmless country is ours, and we will look after it because it is our home. Westminster politicians said that they wanted to turn the country into a land of owner occupiers when they sold off the family silver, we will answer them by telling them we’ll be the owner occupiers of our own land. All that interests them is how they can use our resources and our talents to further their own careers. Let’s make the future of Scotland our priority, the future of our children, our grandchildren, and generations yet to come. Let’s show the world what a small and harmless country can do, and be a voice for peace and justice in this world.

Edited by Oddquine
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My goodness these Cybernats are a nasty, nasty bunch.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10891229/Alex-Salmonds-office-implicated-in-smear-attack-on-mother-who-spoke-up-for-the-Union.html

 

Yessers on this forum use the term "Project Fear" without a hint of irony when there is a small army of fellow Nats who systematically abuse anyone who dares raise their head above the parapet and speak up for the union. It's not just anonymous trolls either, with your beloved Wings site calling that poor mum a liar too. What is it about (some) nationalists that makes them so intolerant of other peoples views?  I'm sure there are people on the other side who have crossed the line too but I don't see the same degree of organised vitriol. 

 

Recently we've had boycotts threatened against Barrhead Travel because the owner expressed his view that independence would be bad for business, and against cinemas who sold advertising space to Better Together.  Nearly every major business in Scotland is against independence but few of them dare come out of the closet for fear a backlash that just makes it more trouble than its worth. Michelle Mone has suffered from it too, Andy Murray has chosen his words very carefully, and today JK Rowling will no doubt be getting it after nailing her colours, and money, to the mast.

 

I wouls suggest that these Cybernats will soon be doing more harm than good to their cause.

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and today JK Rowling will no doubt be getting it

 

Yep, these rabid Nats are again showing their true colours posting hate filled abuse because someone dares to have a different opinion. 

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/scottish-nationalists-who-reacted-really-badly-to-jk-rowl

 

I was going to suggest that Yes Scotland could capitalise by having a fundraising bonfire of Harry Potter books, but it sounds like their members don't have many left now.

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and today JK Rowling will no doubt be getting it

 

Yep, these rabid Nats are again showing their true colours posting hate filled abuse because someone dares to have a different opinion. 

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jonstone/scottish-nationalists-who-reacted-really-badly-to-jk-rowl

 

I was going to suggest that Yes Scotland could capitalise by having a fundraising bonfire of Harry Potter books, but it sounds like their members don't have many left now.

 

If you are suggesting that yes supporters are akin to book burning Nazis, you are every bit as out of order as the abusers you are so quick to condemn.

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It's not really my suggestion at all, it was reported on the radio news earlier that angry Cybernats had taken to social media proclaiming that they would be burning and binning their Harry Potter books and DVDs. 

 

I think even most nationalists realise that the Cybernats are doing more harm than good now, driving away potential converts from the middle ground.

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Here lies another example of bias. The media keep banging on about'cybernats' but don't mention the vile abuse coming from the other side. You showed a link and mentioned it was reported on the radio. The link was random twitter posts.

How about these ones. Ones wishing that Andy Murray had been killed in the Dunblane shootings because he is Scottish...have a read

http://wingsoverscotland.com/british-together/

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New poll in the Daily Record, very positive for Yes. :smile:

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bombshell-daily-record-poll-shows-3678091 

 

Latest Daily Record poll will be a boost to Alex Salmond

The prospect of another five years of David Cameron as Prime Minister would be enough to convince Scots to vote for independence, a bombshell poll reveals today.

The dramatic survey for the Daily Record shows the Yes campaign will win a majority if they can persuade voters Cameron is heading back to Downing Street in the 2015 Westminster general election.

The Survation poll of 1004 Scots also found the Yes and No camps are virtually neck-and-neck with less than 100 days to go until the historic referendum.

A total of 39 per cent plan to vote Yes on September 18, with just 44 per cent saying No.

If you remove those who have still to make up their mind that would give a wafer-thin majority to unionists, with a referendum result of 53 per cent No and 47 per cent Yes.

The figures mean there has been a tightening in the race since the last Survation poll for the Record four weeks ago. Then, 37 per cent were intending to vote Yes compared with 47 per cent backing No.

The results come in the wake of the European Parliament elections, where the success of Nigel Farage’s UKIP in England was used by many Nationalists as an argument for independence.

But the most dramatic results in the new poll came when we asked how Scots would vote if they were sure Cameron would remain PM.

Then, the figures change to 44 per cent Yes and 38 per cent No – giving a comfortable referendum victory to the nationalists, with a result of 54 per cent Yes and 46 per cent No.

The change is caused mostly by Labour supporters changing their referendum vote.

The news is a major boost for First Minister Alex Salmond, whose life-long dream of independence now seems in touching distance.

The figures will worry the No campaign, who know the Tory-led Government could be one of their biggest weaknesses in the campaign in the weeks ahead. Polling expert John Curtice said: “This should act as a warning sign to the No side that they can take nothing for granted about the result.”

The Strathclyde University professor added: “One of the things to watch over the summer is that a rise in the polls for the Tories as far as the Westminster general election is concerned could mean some Scots reconsidering their referendum vote.”

Labour leader Ed Miliband remains ahead in the race for Downing Street, with one poll published this week saying he leads the Tories by four points.

But the Yes campaign has made it one of their central arguments that a separate Scotland would never get Tory governments Scots didn’t vote for.

Salmond has also tried to capitalise on Cameron’s unpopularity north of the border by demanding he take part in a TV debate with him.

The Yes campaign was last night celebrating the best poll result they have had in several months.

Yes Scotland chief executive Blair Jenkins said it confirmed their message is “getting through”.

He added: “This is the best Survation poll – the gap between Yes and No has halved since last month – and Yes now only needs a three-point swing to move ahead. The poll also highlights the strong appeal of the guarantee that Scotland always gets the government we vote for only with independence - instead of being inflicted with Tory governments.

“This independence guarantee is undoubtedly a major factor in persuading more and more Labour voters and members to vote Yes.”

Better Together chief Blair McDougall put a brave face on the results. He said: “This is yet another poll showing the campaign to keep Scotland in the UK ahead.”

But he admitted it showed “there can be no complacency from those of us who passionately believe that being part of the UK secures the brightest future for Scotland”.

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My goodness these Cybernats are a nasty, nasty bunch.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10891229/Alex-Salmonds-office-implicated-in-smear-attack-on-mother-who-spoke-up-for-the-Union.html

 

Yessers on this forum use the term "Project Fear" without a hint of irony when there is a small army of fellow Nats who systematically abuse anyone who dares raise their head above the parapet and speak up for the union. It's not just anonymous trolls either, with your beloved Wings site calling that poor mum a liar too. What is it about (some) nationalists that makes them so intolerant of other peoples views?  I'm sure there are people on the other side who have crossed the line too but I don't see the same degree of organised vitriol. 

 

Recently we've had boycotts threatened against Barrhead Travel because the owner expressed his view that independence would be bad for business, and against cinemas who sold advertising space to Better Together.  Nearly every major business in Scotland is against independence but few of them dare come out of the closet for fear a backlash that just makes it more trouble than its worth. Michelle Mone has suffered from it too, Andy Murray has chosen his words very carefully, and today JK Rowling will no doubt be getting it after nailing her colours, and money, to the mast.

 

I wouls suggest that these Cybernats will soon be doing more harm than good to their cause.

 

Pretty much as nasty as CyberBrits, I find, and I wish both lots would wind their necks in. However, the CyberNats and CyberBrits are just wee unimportant people, like me and you, venting their spleen anywhere they can vent it....undoubtedly because they have nothing more sensible to say. I remember the tweets saying Andy Murray was a Scottish C--t and a c--t Jock and lots of people using that kind of epithet and hoping he'd lose the wimbledon final..even if you don't! The one thing I have always thought about twitter(apart from the fact that I can't say anything much on it, because I don't do 140 characters or less saying anything)..and to an extent about FaceBook, is that they are a blight on the internet world.  They are systems too easily abused by the numpties, or hackers. Can you, or anyone, prove, for example, that the people in either camp reputedly tweeting abusive crap are actually people in the camp it looks like they are in, from the tweets?  There is getting to be a tendency to assume what is on twitter is as believable as what appears in the MSM..and it just isn't necessarily so in the case of Twitter.and rarely so in the case of the MSM.

I find it more, infinitely more, worrying that the Unionist MSM will happily produce unsubstantiated gossip, call it "news" and run with it for days...like the "CyberNat" abuse against Susan Calman, which couldn't be substantiated.....and ditto the CyberNat abuse of Kezia Dugdale, which also couldn't be substantiated, but spun for all it was worth even to the extent that one Unionist paper actually followed, doorstepped and identified names and abodes of private citizens they claimed were Cybernats. Yet when both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon got abuse and death threats on twitter..not a peep from the MSM that I ever noticed.

 

And I see they are at it again with Clare Lally.....To quote Wings, who actually checks out the stuff in the media.......

We spent much of yesterday evening trying to actually track down the “vicious barrage” of vile cybernat abuse that Labour and “Better Together” activist says she was subjected to after being revealed to be rather less of an “ordinary” member of the public than the No camp presented her as at its recent Glasgow rally, and which has received blanket media coverage.

As yet, we’ve drawn a blank. We’ve made repeated requests, including to people who’ve contacted us angrily claiming to be her friends or family members, for evidence of any abusive comments at all. All have been met with an abrupt outbreak of silence.

 

Scotland 2014 devoted almost its entire 30-minute show to the issue last night. To depict the terrible onslaught, the above tweets [3] were all they could come up with. The entire affair is starting to smell distinctly piscine.

 

The decision to blur the names of the “offensive” tweeters is curious in itself. These people have posted something in public, so it’s hard to see what purpose is served by obscuring them. One of the tweets – the Panini sticker album joke – is actually one of ours. Curiously the BBC has edited part of it out:

 

Rest here http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-worst-of-the-worst/

 

and last para Our request remains open. If anyone has any evidence of ANY abuse being directed at Clare Lally we’d like to see it, and we will unequivocally condemn it. Until then, we reserve the right to call foul. In its absence no rational conclusion will be possible other than that “cybernats” – a pejorative term in itself – have been vilified and excoriated by politicians and journalists, yet again, on the basis of phantoms.

Edited by Oddquine
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New poll in the Daily Record, very positive for Yes. :smile:

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bombshell-daily-record-poll-shows-3678091 

 

Latest Daily Record poll will be a boost to Alex Salmond

The prospect of another five years of David Cameron as Prime Minister would be enough to convince Scots to vote for independence, a bombshell poll reveals today.

 

 

This really illustrates the farcical nature of the process we are going through.  The referendum is about the ongoing future of Scotland and not the make up of the Government for just the next 5 years. Yet it appears that we may choose to discard 300 years of history as part of the United Kingdom based on the fact that at one particular point in time in Scotland a particular Scottish politician is more popular than a particular English politician.  The implications of this are just too depressing to contemplate at the moment.

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New poll in the Daily Record, very positive for Yes. :smile:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bombshell-daily-record-poll-shows-3678091

Latest Daily Record poll will be a boost to Alex SalmondThe prospect of another five years of David Cameron as Prime Minister would be enough to convince Scots to vote for independence, a bombshell poll reveals today.

This really illustrates the farcical nature of the process we are going through. The referendum is about the ongoing future of Scotland and not the make up of the Government for just the next 5 years. Yet it appears that we may choose to discard 300 years of history as part of the United Kingdom based on the fact that at one particular point in time in Scotland a particular Scottish politician is more popular than a particular English politician. The implications of this are just too depressing to contemplate at the moment. From being a regular contributor, I've avoided reading this thread for several months now.

Being recently retired I'm only too aware of how easy it is to spend all day on web forums, and how destructive a pastime it can be. I'm not really prepared to put in the hours that some others do, in order to do myself justice, in the unlikely event that there are any 'don't knows' left reading the thread.

So my computer time nowadays tends to be spent on creative things, and even better, I try to go outside and get away from it altogether.

Doofer's Dad, what you say is very true, but to turn it around, you should have been saying it for months to all the people who are voting no, because they don't like Alex Salmond.

This is even more depressing and short-sighted than your example, as David Cameron will be followed by more of the same, or maybe Blair-style Labour, or worse, Farage.

Come Independence, Salmond's job will be done and you will be free to elect Greens, Libs, moderate Tories, whatever.

I clicked on this by mistake as I saw Doofer's Dad's name and thought that he was replying to my World Cup post. I intend to crawl back under my stone unless I get alerts from this post.

I'm in Innsbruck right now and I regret that Austria are not competing as I would be able to visit a 'fan-zone' for the first time........

Edited by TheMantis
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I noticed that the author of that report also tended towards the YES campaign with his reporting.

He describes a hypothetical 8% point 'win' for YES as being 'comfortable', whereas earlier he claimed the actual 6% lead for NO was 'neck and neck' and 'wafer thin'!!

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I noticed that the author of that report also tended towards the YES campaign with his reporting.

He describes a hypothetical 8% point 'win' for YES as being 'comfortable', whereas earlier he claimed the actual 6% lead for NO was 'neck and neck' and 'wafer thin'!!

Difference between a lead and a win I suppose.

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New poll in the Daily Record, very positive for Yes. :smile:

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bombshell-daily-record-poll-shows-3678091 

 

Latest Daily Record poll will be a boost to Alex Salmond

The prospect of another five years of David Cameron as Prime Minister would be enough to convince Scots to vote for independence, a bombshell poll reveals today.

 

 

This really illustrates the farcical nature of the process we are going through.  The referendum is about the ongoing future of Scotland and not the make up of the Government for just the next 5 years. Yet it appears that we may choose to discard 300 years of history as part of the United Kingdom based on the fact that at one particular point in time in Scotland a particular Scottish politician is more popular than a particular English politician.  The implications of this are just too depressing to contemplate at the moment.

 

 

No offence, but for many those 300 years would be quite gladly discarded, and it has nothing to do with who happens to be in power at the moment.

 

Indeed the prospect of such a break is far from depressing; it would be a thing of great joy and the fulfillment of a lifetime's wish. :smile:   

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Robin McAlpine, of The Jimmy Reid Foundation says (and don't ask me where, but likely in one of the pay for view newspapers, as it has been C&P'd and not linked.)What he says is so true..and only the wilfully blind can deny it. (There was a survey done in March which said that 21% of Yes supporters had suffered online abuse and 8% of No supporters.) C&P'd here by me, and I'll provide the link when I find it......and any bolding is mine.

 

The BBC did a pretty long interview with me yesterday. I wanted to express my amazement at how they were covering the breaking story about Labour being caught out trying to pass off a member of their Shadow Cabinet as an ordinary member of the public. I asked if I’d be allowed to get on record criticisms of how Better Together has behaved. They only use a short, anodyne excerpt in the final broadcast. Purely because I have a need to get this off my chest today, this is (more-or-less) the stuff they didn’t use.

 The Better Together campaign has been one extended smear operation and the permanent attacks on Yes supporters as abusive and aggressive has been part of that campaign from day one. They have sought to portray the independence debate as a nasty, hostile and scary one because they are actively trying to put people off from getting involved. It is a fundamentally anti-democratic practice and is beneath what is a wonderful and inspiring campaign.

I would defend anyone’s right not to join the Scottish Labour Shadow Cabinet. I would speak out for anyone’s right not to get onto a platform at a national political event and make their children the subject of a political speech. But once you’ve decided that you’re going to do these things then I will defend everyone else’s right to respond – in a civilised way.

It seems to me that Better Together believes that the role of the people of Scotland is to stand aside in silence while they lecture us. This is an amazing conception of democracy and it is remarkable that the people of Better Together think that they are a privileged elite whose right to free speech trumps everyone else’s.

I have been involved in politics in Scotland for over 20 years (longer as a co-opted child) and this campaign is certainly not particularly nasty. I can just remember the Miners’ Strike. I can remember the Poll Tax campaign, the campaign to abolish Clause Four in the Labour Party, the anti-globalisation campaigning of the 2000s and much more. They were all much more hostile than this campaign.

It would be lovely if there were no personalised attacks in politics. I would love it if Johann Lamont didn’t call nationalism a ‘virus’, if she didn’t make jibes about her opponents being childless, if she didn’t call all her opponents liars. I’d love it if Ian Davidson wasn’t threatening to give female politicians “a doing”, if Anas Sarwar wasn’t accusing the Scottish Parliament of being an anti-democratic dictatorship, if Alastair Darling didn’t keep equating support for Scottish independence with fascism. Unfortunately, in politics as in life, people don’t always behave like they should.

Labour behaves as if it has installed a switch in Ms Lally which enables them to switch her on and off as a politician as they see fit – now she’s a politician, now she’s not. Unfortunately, once you’ve appointed someone to your Shadow Cabinet you can’t switch it off again. If Ms Lally is not able to cope with the job she has been given as part of a Shadow Cabinet, if she was not properly told what such a position would entail, then Labour has failed in a duty of care to her. It is nothing whatsoever to do with the Yes campaign. It is worth noting that technically Claire Lally as a member of the Labour Shadow Cabinet is senior to Alastair Darling who is only a backbench MP – such are the ridiculous outcomes of political gimmicks. But shallow, content-free stunts in which you use the mother of a disabled child to give the impression that you’re a party with a strong grass-roots backfires when it amounts to nothing more than the cynical use of a woman as window dressing.

 I wish I didn’t get nasty things written about me on the internet and I don’t write abusive things about other people on the internet. But if we are to start a national search for nastiness can we begin with the broad No movement. It contains within it fascist groups like the Scottish Defence League, racists like the British National Party, bigots like the extreme end of the Orange Order, nutters like UKIP and hundreds of individuals who are more than happy to write the most vile things about Yes campaigners. Since the only research done on the campaign so far showed that a big majority of the nasty things written on social media come from the No campaign, why can’t we start by asking Alastiar Darling and Blair McDougall to crack down on that? They might also want to have a word with Tory MSPs who attack pensioners like the Weirs, their rabid media partners who have demonstrated no bounds to their bile and ‘satirists’ on their side who write about the violent deaths of gentle Scottish artists like Alasdair Gray.

Once this campaign is over, each and every one of us will have to answer for what we did and what we said. I am absolutely confident that I will be able to look back at my deeds and words with pride. I can say the same of almost all the people who are campaigning beside me. We have gone door to door, town hall to town hall, and we have told a positive story about Scotland’s future without telling lies about our opponents or trying to scare the people of Scotland with vague threats.

Better Together and their media partners seem to believe they are the Spanish Inquisition, that they alone can determine guilt and innocence, that any base act on their part is simply a necessary evil in a campaign to protect their privilege. I too believe that they have behaved like the Spanish Inquisition. Then again, I was kind of expecting it.

 

Edited to add the link  http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/12/spin-and-smear/

 

And this link for anyone who thinks there are only nasty abusive nutters in the Yes Campaign.......

.https://twitter.com/BritNatAbuseBot   that's a robot archiving BritNat abuse/smears.

Edited by Oddquine
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This article http://www.bigmouthstrikesagain.com/archives/5411 is worth a read on both sides. The below paragraphs say it all for me.

 

 

September’s vote isn’t about which political party you prefer. It’s about how we keep the bastards honest.  Those bastards might be SNP, or Labour, or Green, or Conservative. It doesn’t matter. We’re being asked to choose a system, not a party.

One of the most dangerous ideas that’s gained currency – and it’s an idea that the No campaign is really pushing – is the idea that a Yes vote is a vote for the SNP. It isn’t. Independence could turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to Labour in Scotland, to the Greens, even to the Conservative party: a reborn Scottish Conservative party, one that has more in common with the long tradition of small-c conservatism than the UK party, could one day have more MPs than Scotland has pandas.

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Will the Shetlands and Orkneys vote to leave Scotland if the Yes vote succeeds? Reports here in NZ say that this is a real possibility.  A bit like the Inuit in northern Quebec voting to leave Quebec and return to Canada should Quebec vote for independence.

 

Would the Western Isles follow suit? Could the Highlands also leave an Independent Scotland?  Reports here in NZ indicate that the drive for Independence is largely driven by the disaffected inhabitants of the Central belt of Scotland where strong nationalistic tendencies abide and that as a result Scotland could split two or three ways after Independence takes place.

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