The Big Scottish Independence Debate

[Charles Bannerman]

 

 

You are, I assume, absolutely horrified that the centralisation of the police forces in England is being seriously considered to save money

Centralisation of police forces in England is something that is being punted by the Cops themselves presumably for their own particular reasons. The political will down there is to keep policing local - as it should be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29105022

Up here it's the politicians who want to centralise policing just like they want to centralise everything else and the policy looks highly unlikely to save nearly as much as they claim.

[Ayeseetee]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29339787

Called it... only 6 days after the referendum.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[starchief]

 

Start the countdown for the first of many **** up's,  the bombing of iraq and maybe syria!

Most people approve of fighting the Islamic State.  This is true for both the UK and Scotland.  For the RAF taking part, by far most approve than disapprove.

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/17/full-results-iraq-syria-and/

 

This is not the false war of Blair and Bush, led in the UK by Scots-born Blair and Brown, supported by most Scottish MPs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862397.stm), endorsed by Holyrood (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2665027.stm).  This was against the express will of most voters, be they Scottish or rUK.

 

You may be happy to leave minorities and moderate to be killed as it's "not your problem" but you're out of step with the majority again.

 

And replied before the referendum.  Most in favour of action against IS, just as most were in favour of staying in the Union.

[Ayeseetee]

 

 

Start the countdown for the first of many **** up's,  the bombing of iraq and maybe syria!

Most people approve of fighting the Islamic State.  This is true for both the UK and Scotland.  For the RAF taking part, by far most approve than disapprove.

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/17/full-results-iraq-syria-and/

 

This is not the false war of Blair and Bush, led in the UK by Scots-born Blair and Brown, supported by most Scottish MPs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862397.stm), endorsed by Holyrood (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2665027.stm).  This was against the express will of most voters, be they Scottish or rUK.

 

You may be happy to leave minorities and moderate to be killed as it's "not your problem" but you're out of step with the majority again.

 

And replied before the referendum.  Most in favour of action against IS, just as most were in favour of staying in the Union.

 

 

Just wait for those same people to moan about the beheadings and terrorists attacks that will follow...

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[Ayeseetee]

 

 

Start the countdown for the first of many **** up's,  the bombing of iraq and maybe syria!

Most people approve of fighting the Islamic State.  This is true for both the UK and Scotland.  For the RAF taking part, by far most approve than disapprove.

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/17/full-results-iraq-syria-and/

 

This is not the false war of Blair and Bush, led in the UK by Scots-born Blair and Brown, supported by most Scottish MPs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862397.stm), endorsed by Holyrood (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2665027.stm).  This was against the express will of most voters, be they Scottish or rUK.

 

You may be happy to leave minorities and moderate to be killed as it's "not your problem" but you're out of step with the majority again.

 

And replied before the referendum.  Most in favour of action against IS, just as most were in favour of staying in the Union.

 

 

If we do what most people want then bye bye trident 

 

http://www.cnduk.org/campaigns/no-to-trident/opinion-polls

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[Ayeseetee]

Why did I not do my own research....

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/majority-of-britons-opposed-to-bombing-isis-in-iraq-and-syria-but-david-cameron-leaves-the-door-to-action-open-9704980.html

 

"Only 35 per cent of people agree that Britain should take part in air strikes, while 50 per cent disagree and 15 per cent are “don’t know"

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[starchief]

Fine by me.  Replace with a cheaper, smaller alternative the most popular option, according to YouGov:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/

"Replace with equally powerful system 26
Replace with less powerful/expensive system 35
Give up nuclear weapons completely 24
Don't know 14"

 

Little support for abandoning nuclear weapons mind.

"If the government decided there is no cheaper alternative...

UK should order four new nuclear submarines 56
UK should give up nuclear weapons 29
Don't know 15"

[starchief]

Why did I not do my own research....

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/majority-of-britons-opposed-to-bombing-isis-in-iraq-and-syria-but-david-cameron-leaves-the-door-to-action-open-9704980.html

 

"Only 35 per cent of people agree that Britain should take part in air strikes, while 50 per cent disagree and 15 per cent are “don’t know"

 

 

 

Old data, I'm afraid.  Events, dear boy, events.

[Ayeseetee]

Fine by me.  Replace with a cheaper, smaller alternative the most popular option, according to YouGov:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/

"Replace with equally powerful system 26

Replace with less powerful/expensive system 35

Give up nuclear weapons completely 24

Don't know 14"

 

Little support for abandoning nuclear weapons mind.

"If the government decided there is no cheaper alternative...

UK should order four new nuclear submarines 56

UK should give up nuclear weapons 29

Don't know 15"

 

july 2013.... got anything more recent?

 

like my poll about people being against the bombing of isis which was taken this month and one person getting beheaded is no reason to start another war 

 

 

p.s the americans are dealing with it with or without us.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[starchief]

 

 

Just wait for those same people to moan about the beheadings and terrorists attacks that will follow...

 

We don't need to wait, they're already here.

[starchief]

 

Fine by me.  Replace with a cheaper, smaller alternative the most popular option, according to YouGov:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/

"Replace with equally powerful system 26

Replace with less powerful/expensive system 35

Give up nuclear weapons completely 24

Don't know 14"

 

Little support for abandoning nuclear weapons mind.

"If the government decided there is no cheaper alternative...

UK should order four new nuclear submarines 56

UK should give up nuclear weapons 29

Don't know 15"

 

july 2013.... got anything more recent?

 

like my poll about people being against the bombing of isis which was taken this month...

 

Nope.  You?

 

Your poll is still out of date.  I quoted a more recent one.

[Ayeseetee]

 

 

Fine by me.  Replace with a cheaper, smaller alternative the most popular option, according to YouGov:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/

"Replace with equally powerful system 26

Replace with less powerful/expensive system 35

Give up nuclear weapons completely 24

Don't know 14"

 

Little support for abandoning nuclear weapons mind.

"If the government decided there is no cheaper alternative...

UK should order four new nuclear submarines 56

UK should give up nuclear weapons 29

Don't know 15"

 

july 2013.... got anything more recent?

 

like my poll about people being against the bombing of isis which was taken this month...

 

Nope.  You?

 

Your poll is still out of date.  I quoted a more recent one.

 

 

 

give me a Link to that more recent one then?

[starchief]

 

 

 

Start the countdown for the first of many **** up's,  the bombing of iraq and maybe syria!

Most people approve of fighting the Islamic State.  This is true for both the UK and Scotland.  For the RAF taking part, by far most approve than disapprove.

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/17/full-results-iraq-syria-and/

 

This is not the false war of Blair and Bush, led in the UK by Scots-born Blair and Brown, supported by most Scottish MPs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862397.stm), endorsed by Holyrood (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2665027.stm).  This was against the express will of most voters, be they Scottish or rUK.

 

You may be happy to leave minorities and moderate to be killed as it's "not your problem" but you're out of step with the majority again.

 

 

[Ayeseetee]

Oh well get ready for a 10+ year war while we try to fix the mess we started...

 

 

Just remember everytime an innocent person dies that you wanted this and thier death will likley create more extremists.

 

 

approx 140,000 innocent men women and children died in iraq in the last war.

[Alex MacLeod]

Oh well get ready for a 10+ year war while we try to fix the mess we started...

 

 

Just remember everytime an innocent person dies that you wanted this and thier death will likley create more extremists.

 

 

approx 140,000 innocent men women and children died in iraq in the last war.

Nothing unusual there then. We've been fighting in Afghanistan since 1839

[Ayeseetee]

WARNING REALITY BELOW (16+)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like the bit where they justify shooting the children....     

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[Ayeseetee]

Delete that last post if it's against the rules

 

I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think people have become a bit detached from the whole confilct and needed to see what sort of thing they are agreeing to.

 

 

I want to get those extremists as much as anyone else but I put the safety of the civilians caught in the middle above that!

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[Ayeseetee]

One god damn referendum and already I sound like some sort of hippy... 

Edited September 24, 2014 by Ayeseetee

[Alex MacLeod]

 

Mr Bannerman, may I ask have you ever been outside of this UK. Up until recent years we were one of the very few countries in the world with a police force who didn't carry guns. We also live in a country where police officers are being killed or seriously injured in the line of duty by guns so why shouldn't they carry the ultimate protection?

Alex... much of what Ayeseetee has said in this debate I have disagreed with, but I am totally with him in what he says in post 1614. There is also a sub-plot to the carrying of guns question in that it is certainly even less necessary in the likes of Inverness than it is in the central belt, but our one size fits all National Police Force dictates that our local cops should have to have them as well, hence depriving us of local control.

There's the irony. At a time when there is much shouting about devolving powers from "Westminster" to Edinburgh, we are also seeing powers being centralised from areas like the Highlands... also to Edinburgh.

 

and until yesterday many of us would have said 'even less necessary in the likes of Shetland'.

I may be wrong but I believe Police Scotland headquarters are actually in Alloa.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Alex MacLeod

[Charles Bannerman]

 

 

Mr Bannerman, may I ask have you ever been outside of this UK. Up until recent years we were one of the very few countries in the world with a police force who didn't carry guns. We also live in a country where police officers are being killed or seriously injured in the line of duty by guns so why shouldn't they carry the ultimate protection?

Alex... much of what Ayeseetee has said in this debate I have disagreed with, but I am totally with him in what he says in post 1614. There is also a sub-plot to the carrying of guns question in that it is certainly even less necessary in the likes of Inverness than it is in the central belt, but our one size fits all National Police Force dictates that our local cops should have to have them as well, hence depriving us of local control.

There's the irony. At a time when there is much shouting about devolving powers from "Westminster" to Edinburgh, we are also seeing powers being centralised from areas like the Highlands... also to Edinburgh.

 

and until yesterday many of us would have said 'even less necessary in the likes of Shetland'.

I may be wrong but I believe Police Scotland headquarters are actually in Alloa.

 

Alex... you know quite well that I am using "Edinburgh" in the same generic manner as Qddquine and others use "Westminster"!

[Charles Bannerman]

 

 

 

Just wait for those same people to moan about the beheadings and terrorists attacks that will follow...

 

 

You mean in the same way as the Poles moaned about Britain and France declaring war on Germany in September 1939?

Or are you Neville Chamberlain in disguise? (Mmm.... given your rather outdated mid-20th century brand of utopian ultra Socialism... perhaps not!)

 

Interesting though. "Most people don't want nuclear weapons"....... "Most people don't support strikes against ISIS".

You have clearly found your close scrutiny of "The Alex Salmond Book Of Unsubstantiated Assertions" highly influential!

Edited September 24, 2014 by Charles Bannerman

[Ayeseetee]

You should really write for the daily mail you managed to get terrorists/foreigners/nazis/snp together in 4 sentences!

 

 

Typical bannerman looking backwards instead of forwards 

[Kingsmills]

With a massive increase in party membership from 26,000 to over 60,000 I doubt if the SNP are entirely unhappy about the consequences of the referendum.

 

Scottish Labour, by contrast, are being rather coy about what has happened to their membership figures since Thursday last..

Edited September 24, 2014 by Kingsmills

[dougiedanger]

Apparently, 51% of Scots-born voters voted Yes, while 74% of non-Scots UK-born voters voted no.

So the Scots did actually vote for independence.

[Kingsmills]

Apparently, 51% of Scots-born voters voted Yes, while 74% of non-Scots UK-born voters voted no.

So the Scots did actually vote for independence.

 

Don't see the relevance of that statistic. Everyone choosing to make Scotland their domicile was entitled to vote on the future of their country irrespective of their place of birth and quite properly so.