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St Mirren say "No"


HighlandCop

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So, when are they revealing their ideas for improving Scottish football?  If they say no to what was on offer, they surely must have an alternative.  Chuckles at St Mirren couple of weeks ago, conspiricy?

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FFS C*unty!!!!

They were happy to beat the drum for a SPL 2, or restructure when they were Division 1. But now they are in with the big boys and doing quite well everythings rosey now and they vote change down!

Well done county, you have effectively killed our game! PATHETIC LITTLE CLUB!

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well done ross co and st mirren

:clapoverhead:  :clapoverhead:  :clapoverhead:  :clapoverhead:  :clapoverhead: :clapoverhead:  :clapoverhead:  :clapoverhead:  :clapoverhead:  

 

 

football as it should be. determine your own fate over the length of a season.

 

imagine finishing 9th out of 12 and due to losing players to injury, team hitting a bad patch,  getting relegated. what a crock of sh1t

 

no stupid reset of points, no mini league and no play off's which are only to fleece the paying customer.

remember aberdeen in the plays off some years ago. worst games of football ever seen. 2 teams not wanting to lose, playing on rock hard , bumpy pitches and players thinking of summer hols

 

if dundee were better prepared this season, no fault on their part due to the dithering over newco, maybe relegation would have gone to the wire like top six, euro place, 2nd spot. 

best spl in years

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I can't believe how many people are disappointed with this outcome. Thankfully this ridiculous idea has been binned and hopefully will lead to Neil Doncaster leaving his post and somebody willing to select the positive aspects of the proposal into a sensible reconstruction idea taking his place.

:smile:

Edited by cal234ey
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To me St mirren seem to be the bad guys. Stuart Gilmore said that the 11-1 voting system should be gone and i couldnt agree moreBut an statement by the SPL just now seems to suggest that there was an agreement to reduce it 9-3 but as it is thrased the same two clubs voted against. Why has st mirren done that when that is what they objected to and why would county object that to, it seems today that clubs tried to make concessions to get through and they still rejected. Disgraceful i was never a big fan of the 12-12-18 with a lot of clubs stumbling block being the reset points in the middle 8. I agree that is fair but why were the other two leagues not going to be reset. I would have been very angry if say Caley missed out in europe because the team getting the spot accumalated points against the weaker teams that didnt even play in that league anymore. But the major ideas of wealth distribution, merging into one govening body as well as pyramid and play offs. Once the structure is in place you can start to build and if 12-12-18 is abysmal then we can change it much easier and that has now gone. I dread to think what will happen to the first division clubs now they needed that money.

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So that's it then, no change in a game that seeks a new major sponsor this year and has to look again at tv rights soon. No change in a game that at least we can all agree is dying by degree in this country. Dying because we couldn't try something new by simply altering with a points resetting a split in the league that we already have anyway and we could have altered after three years. No change in the cash distribution (how many more clubs after Dunfermline will we be saying goodbye to?) No pyramid that allows genuine progress on merit. No change to a derided 11:1 voting system. Why? because of the utter self interest of the two chairmen of two clubs who thought that they might be at risk of ending up in that split group and couldn't see the bigger picture.

It's a shame that the picture has been clouded by the single issue of a bigger SPL. It simply isn't sustainable because the fans that have shouted loudest are those of clubs who are at the greatest risk of losing out on SPL status. They're not coming through the turnstiles in greater numbers, they're not investing in their clubs and they're not offering credible alternatives even after the clubs did their bidding last summer. They are just sitting in the back of the cave, afraid to come out and face the new. OK, the 12-12-18 wasn't perfect but it could have protected us from what I reckon will now be ratcheted up pressure for The Rangers to be accellerated into the top tier and boost income the old way. After all, according to St Mirren & County, we don't want change.

We might just have seen the biggest cutting off your nose to spite your face that Scottish football has seen in years, but at least we know exactly where the blame lies. 

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Stewart Milne hasn't got a leg to stand on. It was him and his club that stopped the 11-1 majority vote from being changed earlier in the season. Ironically enough, if he had voted for it then, league reconstruction would have been passed through today.

 

Despite the many good parts of the plan (redistribution of money, playoffs, pyramid structure) the abomination of the planned splits, especially the middle 8, was ridiculous. How can you expect clubs to be able to sell season tickets at the start of the year not knowing what mini-league they would be in. Here you go guys, get your season tickets, we might have another game against Celtic, we might have one against Morton. Who knows! For the likes of Dundee this year, who knew they weren't going to make the top 8, they could have sat back, made sure they avoided suspensions, injuries etc and basically only turn up for the last part of the season. And the likes of Ross County this year wouldn't have made the top 8 and look where they are now! And it was a farce that if the whole thing DID get voted through and it turned out to be a complete disaster, nothing could be changed for 3 years.

 

Personally I think we should retain the current league structure but introduce the good ideas: redistribution of money, playoffs, the pyramid structure, one governing body, and the 9-3 voting majority. The current split has generated plenty of excitement over the years. Granted, the last 5 games can be meaningless if you are in the bottom half and have already secured survival, but think of the excitement of not knowing who would make the top 6 in the previous 33 games before it.

 

Hopefully now this means Doncaster will be resigning. I will personally drive him and Regan back to wherever the hell they came from.

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So that's it then, no change in a game that seeks a new major sponsor this year and has to look again at tv rights soon. No change in a game that at least we can all agree is dying by degree in this country. Dying because we couldn't try something new by simply altering with a points resetting a split in the league that we already have anyway and we could have altered after three years. No change in the cash distribution (how many more clubs after Dunfermline will we be saying goodbye to?) No pyramid that allows genuine progress on merit. No change to a derided 11:1 voting system. Why? because of the utter self interest of the two chairmen of two clubs who thought that they might be at risk of ending up in that split group and couldn't see the bigger picture.

It's a shame that the picture has been clouded by the single issue of a bigger SPL. It simply isn't sustainable because the fans that have shouted loudest are those of clubs who are at the greatest risk of losing out on SPL status. They're not coming through the turnstiles in greater numbers, they're not investing in their clubs and they're not offering credible alternatives even after the clubs did their bidding last summer. They are just sitting in the back of the cave, afraid to come out and face the new. OK, the 12-12-18 wasn't perfect but it could have protected us from what I reckon will now be ratcheted up pressure for The Rangers to be accellerated into the top tier and boost income the old way. After all, according to St Mirren & County, we don't want change.

We might just have seen the biggest cutting off your nose to spite your face that Scottish football has seen in years, but at least we know exactly where the blame lies. 

 

I disagree that the game is dying. In the last two days we have had two incredibly exciting semi-finals, this seasons SPL has been incredibly competitive regarding the race for Europe/Top six. The 12-12-18 would not have led to the race to win the SPL being more competitive, Celtic would still have won it comfortably. With regards to relegation, over the course of 14 games, would Partick, Morton, Falkirk and Livingston (Current SFL1 top four) really have enough in their squad to beat the likes of St Mirren, Hearts and Hibs? I doubt it. I excluded Dundee as they are not really SPL standard and this would probably lead to just the 1up 1down we currently have. 

 

The split just now is only for 5 games which is ~13% of the season. The proposed split is for 14 games which is ~39% of that season. The two splits are completely incomparable. I have no issue with the current split in the league. The 8-8-8 split is seriously flawed.

 

I feel the cash distribution needs to be changed but not because Dunfermline are in financial difficulty, that is through their own mis-managament and should not be the sole catalyst for change. I fully believe it should be altered as just now it is completely unfair and aimed at keeping all of the money in the top league and most of that swallowed up by Celtic. Dunfermline can only blame themselves for their problems.

 

Also Aberdeen are responsible for not binning the 11-1 earlier in the season as they thought they would come second and thus collect the 2nd place cash pot. So Stewart Milne only has himself to blame for a 10-2 vote killing of 12-12-18.

 

This will also not lead to Sevco being moved up the leagues to compensate. They will take their place in SFL 2 next year and the reconstruction will not be in place for next season.

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I am afraid that EVERY system would be flawed in somebody's eyes - I am glad that this proposal has not gone through but we have to change. I would prefer to go more like the English system - I would suggest three leagues of 14 - the bottom 3 go down automatically - the top two go up and the next four fight for the third place.

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I am glad this was voted down by the only 2 Chairmen who had the guts to listen to what the majority of fans want.  I have never heard anything so ridiculous as the split form 2 x 12 to 3 x 8 in all my days and am glad that was knocked on the head. Why can't the SPL/SFA/SFL accept the other proposals which did make some sense though - this whole "Its all or nothing" statement sounds like a Del boy type of double glazing salesman offering you a great deal, but only if you sign up right now !!

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So that's it then, no change in a game that seeks a new major sponsor this year and has to look again at tv rights soon. No change in a game that at least we can all agree is dying by degree in this country. Dying because we couldn't try something new by simply altering with a points resetting a split in the league that we already have anyway and we could have altered after three years. No change in the cash distribution (how many more clubs after Dunfermline will we be saying goodbye to?) No pyramid that allows genuine progress on merit. No change to a derided 11:1 voting system. Why? because of the utter self interest of the two chairmen of two clubs who thought that they might be at risk of ending up in that split group and couldn't see the bigger picture.

It's a shame that the picture has been clouded by the single issue of a bigger SPL. It simply isn't sustainable because the fans that have shouted loudest are those of clubs who are at the greatest risk of losing out on SPL status. They're not coming through the turnstiles in greater numbers, they're not investing in their clubs and they're not offering credible alternatives even after the clubs did their bidding last summer. They are just sitting in the back of the cave, afraid to come out and face the new. OK, the 12-12-18 wasn't perfect but it could have protected us from what I reckon will now be ratcheted up pressure for The Rangers to be accellerated into the top tier and boost income the old way. After all, according to St Mirren & County, we don't want change.

We might just have seen the biggest cutting off your nose to spite your face that Scottish football has seen in years, but at least we know exactly where the blame lies. 

 

Find this a pretty disappointing point of view from someone meant to represent us as fans.

 

Also, paragraphs are your friend  :wink:

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12-12-18 sounds a decent split but I don't understand why the 8-8-8 split needs to be a part of the package.  I can't see that much more money being created from it.  Why not have a single governing body, a fairer split of money, a pyramid etc but keep the SPL as it is?  What's the reason?

 

I haven't followed this as I lose the will to live about league reconstruction and all that pish.

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Credit to Roy MacGregor and Stuart Gilmore for sticking to their principles.

 

A single league set up, play offs and a fairer distribution of income could have been brought in for next season without the other elements that proved ultimately to be deal breaking.

 

The stance of the SPL that it had to be all or nothing was nothing short of intimidation and blackmail.

 

Yes, existing SPL clubs would have slightly reduced income per capita. Yes they would have been a bit more at risk of relegation but the product would instantly be more attractive to Sponsors and TV partners and the risk of relegation would be balanced by the guarantee that the financial consequences would be less dire than now.

 

Finally, the 11-1 voting structure has to be changed to no more than 9-3. It is no longer any secret that the structure was brought in so that no important change colid be effective without the consent of both members of the Old Firm. I can't, for the life of me, understand why all the current members of the SPL apart from Celtic have not changed the voting structure already.

 

Sadly, it is only a matter of time before The Rangers are back in the top tier and if that position hasn't changed by then the Old Firm veto will remain for ever and a day.

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Finally, the 11-1 voting structure has to be changed to no more than 9-3. It is no longer any secret that the structure was brought in so that no important change colid be effective without the consent of both members of the Old Firm. I can't, for the life of me, understand why all the current members of the SPL apart from Celtic have not changed the voting structure already.

 

 

They voted to change the voting structure today as well.  Two Chairmen voted No.  Gilmour and MacGregor.  The 11-1 voting structure stays.

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Credit to Roy MacGregor and Stuart Gilmore for sticking to their principles.

 

A single league set up, play offs and a fairer distribution of income could have been brought in for next season without the other elements that proved ultimately to be deal breaking.

 

The stance of the SPL that it had to be all or nothing was nothing short of intimidation and blackmail.

 

Yes, existing SPL clubs would have slightly reduced income per capita. Yes they would have been a bit more at risk of relegation but the product would instantly be more attractive to Sponsors and TV partners and the risk of relegation would be balanced by the guarantee that the financial consequences would be less dire than now.

 

Finally, the 11-1 voting structure has to be changed to no more than 9-3. It is no longer any secret that the structure was brought in so that no important change colid be effective without the consent of both members of the Old Firm. I can't, for the life of me, understand why all the current members of the SPL apart from Celtic have not changed the voting structure already.

 

Sadly, it is only a matter of time before The Rangers are back in the top tier and if that position hasn't changed by then the Old Firm veto will remain for ever and a day.

 

 

This would have happened today but St Mirren and Ross County rejected that.  :slapme:

 

Fair play to Ross County and Roy McGregor for listening to the fans and not bowing down to the pressure imposed by Peter Lawwell but what are the motives of St Mirren other than having self interest?

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Very disappointed that this wasn't voted through.  Financially, it would have been a better package.  At first reading I thought the structure was crazy but once I got my head around it I really liked the concept.  It would have been much more exciting than the current structure. 

 

I'm reading on various social media such as Twitter that ICT fans are complaining that the club didn't consult them.  I live in Glasgow now but I was well aware of the open meeting with CJT that was advertised on here, the official website, and elsewhere.  I couldn't attend but read all the documentation from the meeting.  Happy that Kenny voted yes but it's a shame it wasn't enough for others. 

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