Cheerio Chuck

[Renegade]

Kingsmills ( or should that be Parkhead) you haven't clarified your post, you like a lot of people are of the opinion that Scottish Football is better without Rangers. How is it better?. We have had a good season, but crowds are down, there was no competition to Celtic in winning the league, Celtic on the day they won the league had to do cheap tickets for kids  to boost the crowd, crowds are down at all grounds, standard of play hasn't improved (ICT exception). Your comments about racists and bigots need backing up, how did Green pander to them?  Despite my recent posts I don't have a drum to beat about Rangers but do feel they have been unfairly treated and their treatment has been to the detriment of Scottish Football. Celtic are going to win the league for the foreseeable future eventually TV audiences will get tried of it and stop paying subscriptions, meaning loss of  money to the game. Football needs competition to survive unfortunately in Scotland, that competition normally means Rangers and Celtic. 

 

[Charles Bannerman]

Football needs competition to survive unfortunately in Scotland, that competition normally means Rangers and Celtic. 

Agent N... I would beg to disagree 100% and suggest the complete opposite. You imply Rangers and Celtic are the solution to the problem. I would put it to you in total contrast that Rangers and Celtic actually ARE the problem and that they have historically stifled competition from other clubs.

Scottish football is struggling for viability because so much of the cash circulating in it is going into the coffers at Ibrox and Celtic Park. Within a population base of just 5 million, there's not enough left for much else to survive at any significant level.

However Rangers and Celtic disappearing off to England, for instance, wouldn't solve the problem since the money would still follow them.

I'm afraid Scottish football is stuck with this situation since you can't unmake Rangers and Celtic in the form in which they exist - unless you can renegotiate the Anglo Irish Treaty and undo the Reformation!!

So you can fiddle about with league structure as much as you like. It really won't make any significant difference since there is no solution to the core problem of Old Firm hegemony.

I also don't think the negative factors you point to are a result of Rangers being in the Third Division this season. My own view is that from the perspective of the other 11 SPL clubs apart from Celtic, this has actually been a rather better season than normal.

OK, there has been no competition for the league title but that isn't any concern of these other 11 clubs and anyway nothing has really changed there - once again it has been won by an OF club. But on the other hand the other clubs have been going to Celtic Park or entertaining Celtic with a greater hope of taking something from them this season, there was an absolutely wonderful scrap for top six places, the battle is still not over in terms of who finishes second and there is an extra European place for one of these other 11 clubs.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Charles Bannerman

[+Fraz]

 

Seems that Charles Green is to stand down as chief executive of Sevco.

 

The SPL has been a breath of fresh air this season without the union flag waving bigots. Scottish football as a whole will smell a lot sweeter once this buffoon who panders to racists and bigots departs the scene.

 

Just because they wave union flags, does not make them bigots, if you don't like the flag of this country go and live somewhere else, I would suggest you are the bigot. Today at Parkhead we were entertained by a number of choruses of Paddy McCourt's Fenian army, because we live in a country where people fought and died, under the flag that you consider bigoted, they are entitled to do that. Did  I miss your post condemning the waving of the Irish flag and starry plough after the last time Celtic visited Inverness?. ..... Guess you weren't too disappointed in todays result!

 

The SPL hasn't been a breath of fresh air this season, ICT have had a magnificent season, but we all knew that Dundee were up against it and would get relegated and Celtic would win it. I would suggest the only fresh air is between your ears! 

 

 

 

Kingsmills ( or should that be Parkhead) you haven't clarified your post, you like a lot of people are of the opinion that Scottish Football is better without Rangers. How is it better?. We have had a good season, but crowds are down, there was no competition to Celtic in winning the league, Celtic on the day they won the league had to do cheap tickets for kids  to boost the crowd, crowds are down at all grounds, standard of play hasn't improved (ICT exception). Your comments about racists and bigots need backing up, how did Green pander to them?  Despite my recent posts I don't have a drum to beat about Rangers but do feel they have been unfairly treated and their treatment has been to the detriment of Scottish Football. Celtic are going to win the league for the foreseeable future eventually TV audiences will get tried of it and stop paying subscriptions, meaning loss of  money to the game. Football needs competition to survive unfortunately in Scotland, that competition normally means Rangers and Celtic. 

 

 

 

[Heilandee]

Been arguing since I was a youth with anyone who would listen,Scottish football would be a far better,more entertaining product with both the larger Glasgow teams out of the picture. The one statement of Agent N I totally agree with is " Football needs competition to survive" I also believe supporters need hope to keep them returning.When I started following Scottish football, Celtic and Rangers were dominant, but did not have a complete monopoly on championships, however,since 1985,(nearly 30 years!! ) no one outside these 2 has had a look in,with all other teams scrapping for crumbs from the top table with the odd cup win or one round jaunt into obscure European terroritory the prize for hanging on closest to their coat tails! Competition???? As Joe Royle would say, My ......!!!!

The interest this season has been seeing ICT and (sorry) County grasping the opperchancity and really going for it with a belief and confidence that they are where they are on merit,and yes, that was a breath of fresh air, also the pecking order throughout the game,(with the exception of Celtic) has changed big time,and any other season, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen would now be involved in a relegation scrap had we not so gloriously squandered our golden ticket out of first division obscurity :-(

I truly am disillusioned and dismayed with the state of the professional football set up in Scotland,the charlatans,cheats and self interested money men who control and manipute our game to the ruination of all have scunnered me and only an inbred sense of loyalty towards friends and club keep me returning at all,but even this gets tested more and more with every passing season.

[Kingsmills]

Couldn't agree more Heilendee. By the way, didn't we have a little wager at the begining of the season ? 

[Heilandee]

Your quite right Kingsmills,I hadn't forgotten, and when the inevitable becomes mathematical,I will drop in a chq for ICT youth development to LG at the TCS. :-)

[Charles Bannerman]

 had we not so gloriously squandered our golden ticket out of first division obscurity :-(

 

 

 an inbred sense of loyalty

This is a slight aside HD, but I'd be interested to hear what you mean by that? Do you mean that the Dees should have got rid of Barry Smith and brought in Bomber Brown earlier? Or are there other factors, given what Dundee have shown they can do more recently?

I know I was very critical of Dundee a few years ago during the second administration, but that whole set of values and norms has subsequently been upended with the more recent example of a club getting hugely into debt, using unjust insolvency laws to walk away from that before snapping up its own assets for a song whilst cherrypicking the bits of its previous existence it wants and conveniently ignoring the rest.

All of this, of course, whilst still continuing to suck away a large slice of the money circulating in Scotland for football purposes.

 

Oh, and I assume that your turn of phrase in the second quoted passage should be taken largely metaphorically?    

Edited April 23, 2013 by Charles Bannerman

[buckett]

"inbred sense of loyalty"

 

Yes, that's more a Dingwall thing.

 

[davie]

Kingsmills ( or should that be Parkhead) you haven't clarified your post, you like a lot of people are of the opinion that Scottish Football is better without Rangers. How is it better?. We have had a good season, but crowds are down, there was no competition to Celtic in winning the league, Celtic on the day they won the league had to do cheap tickets for kids  to boost the crowd, crowds are down at all grounds, standard of play hasn't improved (ICT exception). Your comments about racists and bigots need backing up, how did Green pander to them?  Despite my recent posts I don't have a drum to beat about Rangers but do feel they have been unfairly treated and their treatment has been to the detriment of Scottish Football. Celtic are going to win the league for the foreseeable future eventually TV audiences will get tried of it and stop paying subscriptions, meaning loss of  money to the game. Football needs competition to survive unfortunately in Scotland, that competition normally means Rangers and Celtic. 

 

I'm not getting involved in this but there's a few interesting points in here that are continually voiced by mainstream media. I have no opinion on the merits (or otherwise) of what happened to Rangers. What happened, happened and it may be that after CG's departure more information will clarify the true picture of what went on at Ibrox. What cannot be denied is that the SPL is a better place this year. People do tell me that its uncompeditive and that Celtic didn't have to try and that's why they won the league at such an early date. No one levels that criticism at Manchester United or the EPL, although Man Utd won the league the day after Celtic and may well finish with a record number of points amassed in that competition. Celtic's pricing for an end of season game, albeit one that promised a celebration, was entirely reasonable and mirrored pricing incentives that have been used by all the SPL clubs this year. The fact is that in times of economic uncertainty, entertainment industries suffer and football is just one of them. The quality (or otherwise) of the product is secondary but this has been the tightest SPL in years. Motherwell have been excellent and we could have been clear in second and close to Celtic if our early season run of draws had been translated to wins. From what I can remember, that wouldn't have taken much so it's not a flight of fancy to imagine. The standard of football has been better this year and that fear of losing that permeated previous seasons seems to have lessened. Celtic may win the League for the next however many seasons, but man United or City will win the EPL, Real or Barcelona will win La Liga and teams like Rosenborg will have a stranglehold on their leagues. Does it lessen the TV viewing public? No. Does it devalue the other clubs in these leagues? No. What will devalue it is continually talking it down. Tell a dog its bad for long enough and guess what? Bad it will be.

[KingBeastie]

I suspect the gap between 1st and 2nd is smaller than the gap between 2nd and 3rd in previous seasons.  This would suggest a (slightly) more competitive league.

[Heilandee]

Jeezo, ya have to be careful wi yer terminology roond these parts eh?..... "a sense of loyalty, bred into me from an early age"   

 

To answer yer question Charles, i never bought into the whole "never had a chance to prepare" "didn't know till the week before" excuses being trotted out.As supporters we discussed in the last 6 games of last season with County disappearing into the sunset the need to stay focused and play for second as there was a VERY good chance this could prove massive as things were unfolding,if we could see this with no info,I'm sure those with connections and nods and winks kent a whole lot more!!  Early season we struggled but it quickly became apparent Barry was showing undue loyalty to underachievers and good guy's like Matt Lockwood who were clearly out of their depth.We were unlucky with injuries but managed to hang onto St Mirren's coat tails, the turning point being in Paisley with Colin Nish getting sent off and losing a game we could have won to go equal on points. At this point it was obvious if we could start scoring goals we had a decent chance of competing and staying up. Gary Harkins was brought in which was a tremendous signing but extending 2 goal Colin Nish's contract and several other baffling signings during the January window, while County and St Mirren made very astute and ultimately match winning signings which saw County into the top six and St Mirren win their first trophy in 25 years showed up Barry's naiveté and the boards incompetence. IMHO our CEO has spent far too much time and energy championing the reconstruction process and i feel had put all his eggs into this basket and not focusing on staying up as "things were changing" 

Brown has proved that the squad are capable of results, but all, sadly for us, a little too late. The timing  of Barry's dismissal and manner of Browns appointment were also shocking but there's no arguing  Broons getting results  since his appointment.

 

All in all a great opportunity squandered in my opinion

Edited April 23, 2013 by Heilandee

[Kingsmills]

Going a bit off topic but I must say that while I thought Dundee would probably finish bottom of the pile, I believed that they had the players to make a much better fight of it than they did.

 

Although Barry Smith seems a very decent man, the fact that Brown has comes in and made a much better fist of it while only bringing in a 'keeper seems to confirm that. That said, I know which of the two I'd prefer to live net door to me !

[Charles Bannerman]

Jeezo, ya have to be careful wi yer terminology roond these parts eh?..... "a sense of loyalty, bred into me from an early age"   

 

To answer yer question Charles, i never bought into the whole "never had a chance to prepare" "didn't know till the week before" excuses being trotted out.As supporters we discussed in the last 6 games of last season with County disappearing into the sunset the need to stay focused and play for second as there was a VERY good chance this could prove massive as things were unfolding,if we could see this with no info,I'm sure those with connections and nods and winks kent a whole lot more!!  Early season we struggled but it quickly became apparent Barry was showing undue loyalty to underachievers and good guy's like Matt Lockwood who were clearly out of their depth.We were unlucky with injuries but managed to hang onto St Mirren's coat tails, the turning point being in Paisley with Colin Nish getting sent off and losing a game we could have won to go equal on points. At this point it was obvious if we could start scoring goals we had a decent chance of competing and staying up. Gary Harkins was brought in which was a tremendous signing but extending 2 goal Colin Nish's contract and several other baffling signings during the January window, while County and St Mirren made very astute and ultimately match winning signings which saw County into the top six and St Mirren win their first trophy in 25 years showed up Barry's naiveté and the boards incompetence. IMHO our CEO has spent far too much time and energy championing the reconstruction process and i feel had put all his eggs into this basket and not focusing on staying up as "things were changing" 

Brown has proved that the squad are capable of results, but all, sadly for us, a little too late. The timing  of Barry's dismissal and manner of Browns appointment were also shocking but there's no arguing  Broons getting results  since his appointment.

 

All in all a great opportunity squandered in my opinion

Interesting insight into a situation which nonetheless has still redeemed itself since the earlier, much darker days! Cheers HD.

[Kingsmills]

I see that Chuck intends to sell his shares to an individual who served a prison sentance for defrauding Customs and Excise of millions of pounds in a major VAT  fraud. Follow following in the (in)glorious tradition of Craig Whyte.

 

For a side who's fans profess such loyalty to Her Majesty they seem to have a succession of owners now who seem most remiss when it comes to contributing to her treasury.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that Craig Whyte's conduct, including his willful failure to pay over income tax and national insurance contributions collected from hundreds of staff including very highly paid professional football players, has been found to be criminal......yet.

[old caley girl]

I see that Chuck intends to sell his shares to an individual who served a prison sentance for defrauding Customs and Excise of millions of pounds in a major VAT  fraud. Follow following in the (in)glorious tradition of Craig Whyte.

 

For a side who's fans profess such loyalty to Her Majesty they seem to have a succession of owners now who seem most remiss when it comes to contributing to her treasury.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that Craig Whyte's conduct, including his willful failure to pay over income tax and national insurance contributions collected from hundreds of staff including very highly paid professional football players, has been found to be criminal......yet.

And just for info for the conspiracy theorists apparently he owns the bus firm that St Mirren use!

[Kingsmills]

 

I see that Chuck intends to sell his shares to an individual who served a prison sentance for defrauding Customs and Excise of millions of pounds in a major VAT  fraud. Follow following in the (in)glorious tradition of Craig Whyte.

 

For a side who's fans profess such loyalty to Her Majesty they seem to have a succession of owners now who seem most remiss when it comes to contributing to her treasury.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that Craig Whyte's conduct, including his willful failure to pay over income tax and national insurance contributions collected from hundreds of staff including very highly paid professional football players, has been found to be criminal......yet.

And just for info for the conspiracy theorists apparently he owns the bus firm that St Mirren use!

 

 

Has anyone checked the colour of the diesel in their tanks ?

[Scarlet Pimple]

Diesel in their tanks?   Why, they put it all in  their Vats to cover up the streaks of their fraud...

[Rainbow]

 

Kingsmills ( or should that be Parkhead) you haven't clarified your post, you like a lot of people are of the opinion that Scottish Football is better without Rangers. How is it better?. We have had a good season, but crowds are down, there was no competition to Celtic in winning the league, Celtic on the day they won the league had to do cheap tickets for kids  to boost the crowd, crowds are down at all grounds, standard of play hasn't improved (ICT exception). Your comments about racists and bigots need backing up, how did Green pander to them?  Despite my recent posts I don't have a drum to beat about Rangers but do feel they have been unfairly treated and their treatment has been to the detriment of Scottish Football. Celtic are going to win the league for the foreseeable future eventually TV audiences will get tried of it and stop paying subscriptions, meaning loss of  money to the game. Football needs competition to survive unfortunately in Scotland, that competition normally means Rangers and Celtic. 

 

I'm not getting involved in this but there's a few interesting points in here that are continually voiced by mainstream media. I have no opinion on the merits (or otherwise) of what happened to Rangers. What happened, happened and it may be that after CG's departure more information will clarify the true picture of what went on at Ibrox. What cannot be denied is that the SPL is a better place this year. People do tell me that its uncompeditive and that Celtic didn't have to try and that's why they won the league at such an early date. No one levels that criticism at Manchester United or the EPL, although Man Utd won the league the day after Celtic and may well finish with a record number of points amassed in that competition. Celtic's pricing for an end of season game, albeit one that promised a celebration, was entirely reasonable and mirrored pricing incentives that have been used by all the SPL clubs this year. The fact is that in times of economic uncertainty, entertainment industries suffer and football is just one of them. The quality (or otherwise) of the product is secondary but this has been the tightest SPL in years. Motherwell have been excellent and we could have been clear in second and close to Celtic if our early season run of draws had been translated to wins. From what I can remember, that wouldn't have taken much so it's not a flight of fancy to imagine. The standard of football has been better this year and that fear of losing that permeated previous seasons seems to have lessened. Celtic may win the League for the next however many seasons, but man United or City will win the EPL, Real or Barcelona will win La Liga and teams like Rosenborg will have a stranglehold on their leagues. Does it lessen the TV viewing public? No. Does it devalue the other clubs in these leagues? No. What will devalue it is continually talking it down. Tell a dog its bad for long enough and guess what? Bad it will be.

 

 

Just as an addition, Bayern Munich have won the Bundesliga 3 weeks ago and now have a 20 point lead on Dortmund with 4 games to go which prompted the Dortmund manager to warn of Scottish conditions in the Bundesliga. But the arenas are full and TV income will be nearly doubled beginning this summer.

[Kingsmills]

Having a population in excess of 80 million and teams enjoying great success in Europe helps with full stadia and lucrative TV deals.

[Rainbow]

That's correct Kingsmills, but according to the wee Ibrox boy's logic <sarcasm on> the arenas in Germany should be half empty and TV deals cancelled, alternatively the Bundesliga redcuced to 10 teams, one of which has to be 1860 Munich who are to be made owners of the old Olympic stadium by decree and given 500 million Euros to build a team that can rival Bayern for the title while all other arenas are to be reduced to 15 K seats to make sure no team outside Munich (which is BTW the captial of German media as well) will ever compete for the title. Oh and I forgot that Bayern Munich has to be turned into a Catholic club while 1860 must be Protestant. <sarcasm off>