Matchday Thread St Johnstone -V- ICT

[tm4tj]

There are times in a season when it appears that everythings against you and today seemed to be one of them. This looked to to be a classic caley jags away backs against the wall day until Raven was sent off, and the outcome hinged on that. After it, we were always going to have to defend desperately and we did that immensely well until 77 minutes when the erxtra man finally told. Meekings may think he should have done better, but it was a tired tackle on hasslebaink that allowed him to cross for the goal. Unsurprising when you look at the amount of runs forward he had to do to support a midfield that was fighting like hell. Tony Reguero kept us in it, just as Allan Mannus did in the last game for the Saints.

 

No doubt people have now had a chance to look at raven's red card. It was not a last man challenge (Meekings and Taylor were coming round). It didn't deny a goalscoring opportunity (it was a diagonal ball going wide) and there was little or no contact and what contact there was with Raven's arm coming across - unintentional. I've seen the footage god knows how many times, and Dave confirmed it. The game was decided on that, and with 11 men we might very well have held out.

 

Don't forget that St johnstone were in europe last year and are fourth on merit and to say that they are rubbish is, frankly, rubbish.We have matched them every game this season when we have been 11 on 11, so the result could be said to be par for the course. Pathetic? No, and it does both sides an injustice to infer that. Just a sore one, and one that makes the next two home games crucial.

 

I'm with Johndo here, the passports out.

That first highlighted bit sums it up.................we were set to play negative football against a negative side

 

Second...............what has that got to do with the price of cheese?

 

Third...................they are rubbish, and that is not rubbish

 

Fourth..................It was pathetic, as pathetic as the County game on Friday night, the effort is not in question, the way we go about it is

 

Fifth...................that part is very true, unfortunately we have become the architects of our own downfall recently, despite our top-six appearance

[RiG]

How many times does it need to be repeated - whether Raven was the "last man" or not is completely irrelevant. There is nothing in the laws of the game that say a player should be sent off because he is the last man.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

What would happen in a wummins football match or if Dave the Rave was a transexual ?

[Bluesman]

and with the red card, they were lucky...thought it was pretty harsh as it was a race for the ball rather than a clear scoring chance to me. We were better than them second half but it was always going to be tough from the card on.

[AJS]

If it had been against us we would have been screaming for a red card, whether Vine would have had control of the ball or not is questionable but if he did he would have been clean through, Thomson had a shocker of a game but i think he may have made the right call. 

[FoolPhysio]

How many times does it need to be repeated - whether Raven was the "last man" or not is completely irrelevant. There is nothing in the laws of the game that say a player should be sent off because he is the last man.

Law 12 - fouls and misconduct

Sending-off offences

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the following seven offences:

- serious foul play

- violent conduct

- spitting at an opponent or any other person

- denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

- denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

- using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

- receiving a second caution in the same match

A player, substitute or substituted player who has been sent off must leave the vicinity of the field of play and the technical area.

The only defence would be that Raven clipped the player without intent, by the player running across him and catching his leg in normal stride.

Having looked at the highlights, that is debateable and I feel that an appeal would not be upheld.

[Rasczak]

How many times does it need to be repeated - whether Raven was the "last man" or not is completely irrelevant. There is nothing in the laws of the game that say a player should be sent off because he is the last man.

Law 12 - fouls and misconduct

Sending-off offences

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the following seven offences:

- serious foul play

- violent conduct

- spitting at an opponent or any other person

- denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

- denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

- using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures

- receiving a second caution in the same match

A player, substitute or substituted player who has been sent off must leave the vicinity of the field of play and the technical area.

The only defence would be that Raven clipped the player without intent, by the player running across him and catching his leg in normal stride.

Having looked at the highlights, that is debateable and I feel that an appeal would not be upheld.

That wouldn't be the defence IMO. The scenario for a sending off is 2 fold, first would a free kick or penalty be given regardless of any other factors, second if there had been no infringement would the attacker have an obvious chance to score.

I think that in any other circumstances, the foul would have been given anyway, what is to debated is whether Vine had a clear chance at goal if it were not for the foul. My first thought, the sanitised version anyway, watching on screen was, "Wait a minute, who else would get there, is there a red coming.", so wasn't surprised.

Having seen the replay at the time, I haven't watched the highlights yet, it did look like maybe there was cover and so it may not be an obvious chance. Any appeal would likely be on the basis that it was not an obvious chance, looking to get it reduced to a yellow.

[Renegade]

I think the worrying thing for me is that we've barely created any chances for weeks.  Aside from Doran's consolation at Celtic Park and Draper's header in the 0-0 St Johnstone game (as well as that half chance when Doran was through on Mannus in that aforementioned game), we've looked nothing like scoring, with many of our attacks breaking down three-quarters of the way up the park (often by Doran dilly-dallying on the ball too much) and other tame long shots.  

 

I can't help but think that our set-up is setting us back.  Let me make this categorically clear - Draper is not a winger and never will be and Doran should not be played on the left.  Of the former, you wouldn't play Jones out there and the role doesn't suit Draper.  Butcher seems to be looking to turn Doran into a left-sided Hayes, but that's one thing he won't be.  Doran is not as direct as Hayes was and isn't the type of winger who suits cutting inside and shooting.  He's a far better player on the right, getting to the byline and crossing into the box.

 

To be fair to Butcher, it was refreshing to see him go with a more open set-up on Saturday, with Doran on the right and Jones and Draper in the middle (Andrew Shinnie had a slight hamstring injury apparently), but after Raven was sent off, we didn't look like scoring.  Draper onto the right and Doran to the left wasn't the way to go.  I'd far rather have seen Shinnie moving to left-back and Foran going onto left wing.  It was almost like the set-up was to play for a goalless draw and bringing on Nick Ross as a lone striker was never going to improve our goal threat and just compounded that belief.

 

I think if anything that was a game that showed that Sutherland won't be around these parts for much longer, as he would have been a far better lone front man than Ross.

 

If we are to be beat Motherwell, we've got to play a more open game as we did in the first half of the season, trying to stifle the opposition like in Perth will only hold out for so long.

[Renegade]

Oh and before I forget, Tade was rubbish!

 

Some ICT fans applauded him off the park though 

[PaderbornCaley]

Oh and before I forget, Tade was rubbish!

Some ICT fans applauded him off the park though

Some ICT fans (myself included) were applauding Chris Hogg (who in return gave the customary applaud back to the fans) which then resulted in more fans applauding him.

It just happened to be when Tade was coming off. In saying that, Tade did get applause from some main stand folk at the last home game.

[Yngwie]

Oh and before I forget, Tade was rubbish!

 

 

Agreed.

 

I see he recently got done for speeding - certainly wasn't on the pitch.