Contract Situation

[Renegade]

I don't know how true it is but I do recollect talk that Hughes doesn't rate Vincent highly.  Remember there was talk of him being offloaded a couple of seasons back?

[PCS]

I don't think Vincent has ever fully recovered from fracturing his leg against Hibs.  Those first few games I thought we had the ideal replacement for Andrew Shinnie, playing in the hole behind Makay but he has never really done it.

Can't fault his work rate and he is immortalised in Caley lore forever more with that goal but if he goes, good luck to him.

Williams is a more versatile player and would be a big loss to the squad but he can't cross a ball which is a bit of a draw back for a winger.

[Renegade]

I agree with the poster above.  I don't think Vincent has shown anything like the same amount of bite that he showed when he first arrived.  Now the cup win was a brilliant moment but I do wonder if it's blurred some people's opinion somewhat.  Vincent's not a bad player and I would be pleased if he was retained, but if he was to go, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

In all honesty, I would aim to keep Williams out of the two every day of the week.  Fast, direct, versatile - he's a great and very underrated player for us.  It'd be a blow if he was to leave.

[RiG]

9 hours ago, PCS said:

I don't think Vincent has ever fully recovered from fracturing his leg against Hibs.  Those first few games I thought we had the ideal replacement for Andrew Shinnie, playing in the hole behind Makay but he has never really done it.

Can't fault his work rate and he is immortalised in Caley lore forever more with that goal but if he goes, good luck to him.

Williams is a more versatile player and would be a big loss to the squad but he can't cross a ball which is a bit of a draw back for a winger.

One swallow doesn't make a summer and all that but as recently as the 2 - 2 game with Dundee United Williams set up both goals with crosses from the left. The only ICT player to even try and take the ball out wide that day. He's not a good a crosser as say someone like Barry Robson was for us but I think that's pretty harsh to say he can't cross the ball.

I'd prefer Vincent to stay simply because I don't think that Hughes will be able to replace him with someone of the same standard.

[hislopsoffsideagain]

I have heard tales that Dundee have far greater resources at their disposal, courtesy of their American backers (a good source tells me that Rory Loy is on £3k/week, for example!) and so I'm not surprised that they could offer higher wages to both.

I like both Vincent and Williams, and I'd be disappointed if either left.  However, part of my anxiety is that, whilst it's possible we could replace them with superior players (maybe, in Ryan Williams/Liam Hughes, we already have) they are proven commodities - we know what we are getting from both.

Vincent, it must be remembered, was signed by Butcher for a particular role - to play in an advanced midfield position and bust a gut, doing the running so that the likes of Doran didn't have to.  And he did that very well until that injury.  When he came back, Hughes had come in and Vincent certainly took some time to adapt to the new style - but he has managed it and was playing well this season until he got injured again.  He has a great engine and has a wonderful knack for being in the right place to pick up the second ball.  The downside is very much the injuries - he's only played 67 games in 2 and a half years, which isn't great, and he has had too many periods where he has been unavailable for 2-3 months at a time.

Williams is actually quite a limited player, but one who works so hard that he is a far greater asset than many naturally gifted contemporaries.  And players with his sort of pace don't grow on trees.  He does feel to me like a jack of all trades and master of none though - not quite good enough at beating a full-back or crossing to be an out and out winger, not quite robust enough for central midfield, not defensively savvy enough for left-back (though I thought he might grow into that role given time).  But you can trust him to put in a shift and do the job he has been given.

To lose either would be a shame.  But neither are anywhere near irreplaceable.

Edited February 26, 2016 by hislopsoffsideagain

[PerfICT]

2 hours ago, RiG said:

One swallow doesn't make a summer and all that but as recently as the 2 - 2 game with Dundee United Williams set up both goals with crosses from the left. The only ICT player to even try and take the ball out wide that day. He's not a good a crosser as say someone like Barry Robson was for us but I think that's pretty harsh to say he can't cross the ball.

I'd prefer Vincent to stay simply because I don't think that Hughes will be able to replace him with someone of the same standard.

Not sure Hughes encourages crossing, tbh. From what I've seen this season, he's much keener to play narrow and for the wider players to cut-in and retain possession rather than go on the outside and hit a cross (presumably becuase that gifts away possession more often than not). I don't subscribe to that philosophy because good crosses can creat goals (Tremarco against Motherwell, Roberts against Aberdeen, Williams against DU, as stated above). you need a bit of both to keep the opposition guessing.

Vincent is a really importnat player for the style of football that Hughes plays - you need loads of movement to always have an out-ball and Vincent does that fantastically. His workrate is the highest in the team and it creates space for others. This has been missed when he is absent. That said, he has spent a lot of time on the treatment table, which is never attractive to managers. I still think (no evidence) that Hughes' comment about playing through knocks was aimed at Vincent; if the player thinks the same, a parting of the ways was inevitable.

[RiG]

Great post. Agree with all of that.

[PerfICT]

..;..and now Fon Williams is virtually begging for a contract in the Courier! Have any of our out of contract players been offered a contract at all? Are we planning to enter a 5-a-side team? Raven, Polworth and Fon Williams all indicated they want to stay - get them signed ICT - they are all first team regulars and good players: what are we waiting for? Has JH put in a bid for Messi that has blown the budget or something??

[RiG]

Interesting to read that it's between OFW or Brill to stay on next season along with Esson (no direct quotes to that effect though). Given that Hughes doesn't appear willing to offer a deal to an injury plagued Vincent would the same approach be taken with Brill?

[PerfICT]

I really like Brill, but his injuries are a worry. If I remember correctly, it was the opposite knee that went the second time, which is either really bad luck or a fundamental issue. On balance, I'd suggest that Brill would be more of a risk.

[Kingsmills]

On balance I would take a risk on Brill. In my view, while Fon Williams is a decent 'keeper, Brill is a better one.

[DundeeICT]

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/inverness-caledonian-thistle/859311/undefined-headline-1403/

despite the recent dire form, contracts are now being offered.

[TheCommissioner]

1 hour ago, PerthICT said:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/inverness-caledonian-thistle/859311/undefined-headline-1403/

despite the recent dire form, contracts are now being offered.

Say what you will about Horner but he shows determination and desire to get down the wing. He's only 24 and I'm sure with more first team action and training he may turn out to be quite a diamond in the mud.  I really don't like the reports that Vincent has been offered a pre-contract with Dundee, I really hope he signs for us. I feel that Vincent down the middle as CF/CAM with Doran (when at peak fitness) on the wing is what we are missing this season in terms of linking up the total football passing game to the striker at the front. 

[PerfICT]

Yup: Vincent is a huge miss - it is no coincidence that our form throughout the season has been dependent on Vincent's presence or absence. What he gives is an option - nobody else in our team has his movement. For the style we play, that is essential, otherwise it degenerates into sideways tippy tappy because nobody is available.

Regarding his future - I don't get the sense that Hughes rates him, so I doubt he'll be here next season. The only negative I see for Vincent is his regular injuries.

[Renegade]

I've been reliably informed Vincent will be released due to Hughes' belief that he is too injury-prone. 

[rocky1]

54 minutes ago, Renegade said:

I've been reliably informed Vincent will be released due to Hughes' belief that he is too injury-prone. 

I think Vincent's injuries are as much mental than physical. No doubting his football ability but he has to play to show that. 

[PerfICT]

2 hours ago, Renegade said:

I've been reliably informed Vincent will be released due to Hughes' belief that he is too injury-prone. 

Still think he was the target of the "play through injuries" jibe. If the above is correct, we've probably seen the last of the man who scored the goal to win us the cup! Not the way I'd have liked to see it end, but I suppose when you have a tiny squad, you can't take a risk on somebody who might only give you 10 games a season. However, I don't think JV has been man-managed very well and boy, have we missed him since Jan.

[CaleyAlly]

Letting Vincent go but keeping Horner? 

 

[bdu98196]

If we keep Horner its cos he decided to sign. If anyone bothers to read the article there are offers on the table for several players as JH has said for weeks, including Vincent. Personally I think JV is a luxury we cant afford given his lack of game time over the last few seasons. However if JV leaves (or any others) that have had offers its because they want more money or go elsewhere for reasons known to them - its not necessarily a case of we picked those who are staying over those who leave.

[RiG]

Scott Burns says that we are trying to offer Tansey a new deal. Will be interesting to see what happens here. If he rejects it I suspect a move to Aberdeen will be on the cards. On the plus side it's good to see us making a move to tie down a player (oo er) who still has a wee bit to run on his current deal.

[Kingsmills]

If he doesn't extend and Aberdeen come back in in the Summer renewing their bid of £200,000 then it probably makes commercial sense to sell.

[Gavroche]

From the Inverness Courier : "Danny Devine is keen to tie up his future as soon as possible and sign the two-year contract on offer from Caley Thistle." & "Devine is one of several players to have offers on the table from the club, with Williams, Horner, Liam Polworth and Owain Fon Williams also being offered extensions." http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk//Sport/Football/Caley-Thistle-defender-Danny-Devine-keen-to-resolve-future-after-receiving-offer-of-two-year-extension-15032016.htm

[qwerty11]

Dundee FC confirming Williams and Vincent have signed PCAs...3 year deals for both

[RiG]

They would have been daft not to go for those. Vincent I'm not too fussed about. Too injury prone over the last 3 seasons although I am worried that, despite these problems, we at least knew he was a good player and I don't feel that Hughes is able to adequately replace players we have lost. Some of his signings have been dreadful.
 
Williams I am more disappointed about. He's not an excellent player but he's decent enough. Versatile as well and that has helped us out a lot this season. Probably better as a left back than a midfielder as his crossing is surprisingly poor. Again, I've little confidence in Hughes in the transfer market to replace him. We obviously wanted to keep him so I'm puzzled by why we never offered the guy a deal until Dundee did. Pretty poor from us.

Hopefully we learn from this and offer contracts to players much earlier than we generally seem to do. Also, if we stay up, the board will need to support Hughes in the summer to replace the players we've lost. I'm not expecting silly money to be banded about but we've lost a fair amount of the players from our most successful seasons and they've never properly been replaced with some sticky plaster loan or short term signings used to paper over the cracks. This summer could be a very important one for ICT.

[Sneckboy]

Signed until the end of season (2018-19):
• Gary Warren
• Ross Draper

Signed until the end of season (2017-18):
• John Hughes - Manager
• Brian Rice - Assistant Manager

• Ryan Esson

Signed until the end of next season (2016-17):

• Richie Foran

• Greg Tansey

• Josh Meekings
• Carl Tremarco
 

 Signed until the end of this season (2015-16):

• Dean Brill

• Aaron Doran

• Danny Williams (Pre-contract signing for Dundee)

• James Vincent (Pre-contract signing for Dundee)

• David Raven

• Danny Devine

• Ali Sutherland (on loan at Brora Rangers)

• Liam Polworth

• Lewis Horner 

• Calum Ferguson

• Cammy Mackay

• Nat Wedderburn

• Jordan Roberts

• Owain Fon Williams

• Andrea Mbuyi-Mutombo

• Iain Vigurs
• Alex Fisher
• Ryan Williams
• Liam Hughes
 

On loan until the end of this season (2015-16):
• Miles Storey (from Swindon Town)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Development Squad players available for this season (2015-16):

• Calum Howarth

• Jason Brown  

• Jaime Wilson  

• Kane Hull (on loan at Fort William)

• Struan McArthur 

• Blair MacLennan 

• Chris Brown

• Stephen Rennie (on loan at Fort William)

• Chris Blackett

• Daniel Hoban (goalkeeper - on loan at Strathspey Thistle) 

• Alasdair Stark  

• Andrew Macrae

• Cameron Gilchrist