Contract Situation

[bishbashbosh]

5 minutes ago, Alex MacLeod said:

Everything boils down to money. We have to have a first team squad and we have to have a development squad. Four or five years ago our average player wage was suggested as being around £700 a week. Now its being reported at over £1,000. The club income has remained pretty much the same over the years but the costs have risen.

I'm inclined to think that cash is also the reason why contracts are as they are. Each time a player is offered a new contract there will likely be an increase in wage, a signing on fee and maybe even an agents fee to be agreed and paid. If a club is working hand to mouth, with no cash in the bank, as I think we are then that money is not always available. I'm also inclined to think maybe the chairman doesn't want to make offers until he can work out the projected budget for next year. To do that he needs to see what position we finish this term.

The club is competing with County for fans and sponsorship in an area where there's not any big industry with loads of cash in their advertising budgets and unless a rich sugar daddy comes along with unlimited funds then I think there are two choices for survival. 1. We continue as we are and make the best of what we've got or 2. We become the first top league part time team in the country. Second choice does not bear thinking about.

I think hughes was given cash for both transfer windows this year but chose to spend it on midfielders most of whom he doesn't play.

listen to the Dubliners singing a pub with no beer and substitute " a team with no strikers"

remembering our only striker ( found by chairman) is really a left winger according to the manager

[forresjags]

Always seem to scraping around for finance, becoming tiresome does not inspire future fans or players.

Time for the board to step up and take the club forward instead of standing with their arms crossed feeling hard done by.

It was them after all that accepted only half of what Ryan Christie was really worth and not to mention the pittance we got for McKay and feck all for Shinnie . Need to manage contracts so much better.

[SteveA]

6 hours ago, sneckfan said:

Our other managers have had to put up with the same conditions yet manage to make signings. I understand his frustration but his signings are questionable and why are they all midfielders? He seems to think if he signs midfielders they can cover in defence and up front but they can't. Both Falkirk and Hibs fans have said he's terrible in the transfer market and I really fear for this summer. Is our scouting team the clubs or Yogis pick? A relative of another player told me Raven will be leaving - this is a player that was asking for a new contract this year.

 

If David Raven is not offered a new deal it is a disgrace. One of our best performers for a few years now and a player that wants to stay. We have no one at the club who is better than him in his position and going by John Hughes recruitment so far, i cant see him signing someone anywhere near as solid and consistent. The lack of players signed up for next season is a major worry.

[Renegade]

This Raven saga is starting to remind me of when Butcher started attempting to freeze out Munro, Duncan and later Tokely. He might not be flamboyant, but a more solid, reliable, steady full back at this level you'll have trouble finding. The fact he's come out asking for a deal in the press and is still yet to get one gives me the impression that he finds Yogi someone he doesn't want to or finds difficult to speak to, something that could well give credence to the rumours that Yogi's man management isn't the best. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Renegade

[+DoofersDad]

Couldn't agree more.  Can't help but feel that a fit Raven at right back yesterday would have given us more width and penetration going forward.  Meanwhile, Meekings back in the middle with Warren would have given us a bit more solidity at the back.  It would be absolutely crazy not to offer Raven a contract.

[TopSix]

10 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

Couldn't agree more.  Can't help but feel that a fit Raven at right back yesterday would have given us more width and penetration going forward.  Meanwhile, Meekings back in the middle with Warren would have given us a bit more solidity at the back.  It would be absolutely crazy not to offer Raven a contract.

^This. 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Comparisons between Butcher and Hughes !! Wow - that took a long time for some.

Do you think that the problem with most managers that we have is that the team initially becomes a success. This goes to the managers head. They begin to have an increased feeling of self worth and importance. They then begin to think that they are bigger than the club. They then begin to think that they are "immortal" and become Draconian and instill "fear" in all around them and chasten and isolate anyone who dares to challenge them. Their narcisstic traits come to the fore. They manipulate the "dependent" board into a contract that would never be bettered elsewhere - and puts them in a much stronger personal position and lessens the funds available for players. And then they publicise themselves as being the potential saviours of "bigger" clubs or clubs that they have held a previous affection for.

Now is that all the managers fault ? Why does it keep on happening to us ?

Edited April 4, 2016 by IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Next time - hopefully soon - lets either go for a rookie and Foran as assistant or Foran with an "old head" -a Brown Owl -  sitting alongside to guide in a clearly agreed consultancy position. And let's appoint a Head Scout. Let's Be Prepared.

[Hearach]

If David Raven isn't signed up then I am afraid as far as I am concerned it is another nail in John Hughes' coffin.

[+DoofersDad]

59 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Comparisons between Butcher and Hughes !! Wow - that took a long time for some.

Do you think that the problem with most managers that we have is that the team initially becomes a success. This goes to the managers head. They begin to have an increased feeling of self worth and importance. They then begin to think that they are bigger than the club. They then begin to think that they are "immortal" and become Draconian and instill "fear" in all around them and chasten and isolate anyone who dares to challenge them. Their narcisstic traits come to the fore. They manipulate the "dependent" board into a contract that would never be bettered elsewhere - and puts them in a much stronger personal position and lessens the funds available for players. And then they publicise themselves as being the potential saviours of "bigger" clubs or clubs that they have held a previous affection for.

Now is that all the managers fault ? Why does it keep on happening to us ?

Saints preserve us from any one who thinks they are "immortal"!

I think there's a lot of truth in what you are saying but would add that for managers who have been very successful as players, they also seem to have an expectation that they should be managing at the same level with the same success.  When the team does not achieve that, they start to blame everyone except themselves.  In his interview after the game on Saturday, Hughes was bemoaning the fact that poor defending and an inability to get the ball over the line at the other end cost us a game we dominated.  Of course individual players make errors, but just who  is it that chooses to play one of our two best central defenders at right back and our only striker on the wing?  Hughes may justify the decisions based on what limited options he has, but whose fault is it that we don't have adequate cover in these positions?  Whatever talents Hughes may have, it does seem that getting the right mix of players signed up on contracts is not one of them.  And frankly, if you do not have the right mix of players signed up, it really doesn't matter what your other talents are, you are not going to have success.

Hughes needs to demonstrate some success in getting current players onto new contracts and signing some better players from elsewhere.  If he can't because the Board is cutting back on the budget then he at least needs to use the budget he has to get a better balance within the squad.  He shouldn't be publicly bleating on about how limited our budget is and he certainly shouldn't be deflecting the blame onto the players.  Actions speak louder than words and we need some action from the manager on the contract front - and soon.

[bdu98196]

3 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Hughes was bemoaning the fact that poor defending and an inability to get the ball over the line at the other end cost us a game we dominated.

The 2 ironic factors in that are 1) Hughes was a defender so should be able to coach that skill and help his players develop both in terms of ability and position etc and b) his previous assistant was creative and knew how to make or score goals, therefore when he left perhaps JH should have picked an assistant to replace those skills. If we have a coaching team who only played in defensive roles then does that create an imbalance?

[izzy]

15 hours ago, Renegade said:

This Raven saga is starting to remind me of when Butcher started attempting to freeze out Munro, Duncan and later Tokely. He might not be flamboyant, but a more solid, reliable, steady full back at this level you'll have trouble finding. The fact he's come out asking for a deal in the press and is still yet to get one gives me the impression that he finds Yogi someone he doesn't want to or finds difficult to speak to, something that could well give credence to the rumours that Yogi's man management isn't the best. 

Totally agree with Renegade here .....Also when we lose a goal why does Yogi come flying out of the dugout like someone

possessed and get ripped into Ryan Esson regardless of whose to blame ......He is losing respect all round !!!

[Huisdean]

1 hour ago, bdu98196 said:

The 2 ironic factors in that are 1) Hughes was a defender so should be able to coach that skill and help his players develop both in terms of ability and position etc and b) his previous assistant was creative and knew how to make or score goals, therefore when he left perhaps JH should have picked an assistant to replace those skills. If we have a coaching team who only played in defensive roles then does that create an imbalance?

You can coach players all you want but if they make mistakes during a game, not always the managers fault (not defending JH here, just making a point).In my opinion, too much coaching of players at times and this leaves some unable to think for themselves.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

But from a psychological perspective comparisons of the differing narcisstic personality traits of all three is fascinating. Brewster was an accomplished, flair player who played a part for a while both on and off the park. He also brought along a diet and fitness ethos. In the beginning he appeared to be of a less aloof and less flambouyant character. Butcher was as close to the narcissist as you could get right from the off. He was never going to change. A top drawer player with charm and charisma abounding. He took with him loyal back up and his personna, reputation and ability to attract players and media was very attractive. But he was never going to change or to accommodate. He was mega draconian and he ended up revealing his true colours. Hughes was more of a spirited rather than talented player. Straight talking, honest and likeable. Started off by playing the working class hero. And then accomplishment would appear to have gone to his head, as it had done before, and the narcissistic traits took over. 

Now I am not saying that narcisstic traits are not useful, especially for a football manager but they need to be watered down or controlled. If you allow a narcissist to take control then you are doomed as they perceive that they are not in the wrong and are in full control.

Sometimes it is not about the ability in the training and coaching sphere (Brewster was a great footballing role model) nor the tactical knowledge. It is often about the dressing room and the man management skills. All three were/are "tyrants" in their own way. I suspect that they thrive to be the dream narcissist as were Ferguson and Clough. BUT think about it - what was different about Ferguson and Clough? And what is different about Pochetino, Ranieri and Klopp ? And nearer home Craig Brown and Andy Roxburgh.

[+DoofersDad]

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/spfl/880755/fon-williams-looking-sign-new-caley-thistle-contract/

Fon Williams sounds very keen to stay in Inverness.  He didn't have his finest 94 minutes on Saturday but hopefully he can be signed up soon.

[Robert]

I agree. Other than the home Astra game and Saturday he has been pretty sound.

that said, would like Deano to stay too!

Edited April 5, 2016 by Robert
Typo!

[Gavroche]

"six contract offers are on chairman Kenny Cameron’s table" : http://www.highland-news.co.uk/Sport/Football/Inverness-Caley-Thistle/Caley-Jags-boss-John-Hughes-out-to-stop-legend-Billy-Mckay-at-Dundee-United-06042016.htm?

[RiG]

Some folk have been guessing at the six players on Twitter. Inclined to go with Devine, Roberts, OFW, Doran, Polworth and maybe Tansey to ward off any interest from Aberdeen in the summer?

EDIT: Good move by the way to publicly announce our signing targets.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RiG

[PerfICT]

I doubt Doran will be among the 6. JH had him on the bench more often than not, even when he was fully fit - not Hughes' favourite IMO. He's also a high wage. I'm sure Horner will be amongst those with offers and I'm equally convinced that Raven will not. I get the impression that Roberts isn't fancied either. If any of these hunches are right, I'll be hugely disappointed!

[Sir C the 3rd]

Devine, Horner, vigurs, polworth, fon Williams and either Hughes or wedderburn in my opinion. Hardly inspiring but this is what I've come to expect recently.

[Renegade]

We know Fon Williams, Polworth and Devine have been offered new deals but I also recollect talk that a new contract was being offered to Tansey after the Aberdeen saga.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see Horner retained.

Can't help but shake the feeling though that Roberts and Raven will not be offered deals.  If that turns out to be true, I for one will not be pleased, especially if they're replaced in dross and in the case of the latter, replaced by playing our best centre-back out of position.

[RiG]

I've said before I think we might see previously established first teamers like Doran and Raven moved on in the summer.

[Hearach]

Roberts Raven and Doran not being offered new contracts while our manager praises ex players to the skies. Not impressed

[ictfcsince94]

Don't understand why Robert's is out of favour, he's shown well since coming back from injury, and does he not have a 1 year extension clause on his current contract? His extended lay-off may also provide a bargaining chip for the club to keep costs down for future contracts? 

IMO one of our more skilful players....

[Gavroche]

Good news soon ? http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/Sport/Football/Polworth-extension-could-be-completed-this-week-11042016.htm