John Hughes

[The Mantis]

Errrr he wasn't my 1st choice (or 2nd or 3rd), but can we not give him to the end of the season at least before declaring him as the devil incarnated.

His record shows nothing to suggest that he will immediately destroy any team he's at. In fact if anything the team he has left behind at any club is usually a far stronger one than he inherited... in every case, no matter his personal success. 

People are acting like we've re hired Brewster. It's downright barmy.

Yes he's not the most articulate, but it's not top of my agenda when he's involved in football, especially given that intelligence is evidently not a qualification required to critique football managers 3 games into their job

Lets look at those 3. 1st one St Mirren. Draw. Good result. Has anyone seen how dire our record is against St Mirren. It's not that good. I was fairly satisfied with a point as it was one on the fixture list that I had marked as a banana skin. Hearts Win 2-0 away. Good result, though expected against an inexperienced much weakened Hearts. tynecastle is still a very unhappy hunting ground for us. Aberdeen 4-3 loss. He must have said something worthwhile in the dressing room to change it round because we were dead and buried. Aberdeen however have been flying of late and are another team we tend to not get many point of.  4 points from 9 is fairly good from 3 tough fixtures and some people really need a realitiy check.

I agree with you overall, but we have a dire record against St Mirren? Never. We've dished out a few hammerings to them over the years and I think we've only lost once at their new place, last season in midweek.

Tynecastle a very unhappy hunting ground? Hearts are a huge club who would see us as a minnow and yet over the years I can hardly ever remember going there and getting humped. Nothing but happy memories in fact.

[Govan Jaggie]

Like most people he is not my first choice but he is in the seat. To think that we may not have seem a similar result with the other bloke in charge is rubbish. Remember his results against Motherwell and Celtic last year? No plan b when you are being hammered. I would say that the team were given the treatment at half time last week and came out fighting. I will continue to support the team and wish all the best goes for Yogi. IF it goes wrong I am sure the board will react if required.

[starchief]

 

Butcher's gone.  He left us.

 

(and we lost 4-0 to St Johnstone under his guidance - a much worse result than a draw with Aberdeen)

 

Hartley was nothing more than a possibility. Seems strange hero-worshipping someone with no connection to the club that gave no indication of a desire to be here.

 

I'm dubious about Hughes but I'll wait and see.

Oh right I'm a hero worshiper -look at Hartleys record as a player plus 25 caps for Scotland -back to back promotions -took Aberdeen to penalties and is in the top half of the championship with his part timers -yes he was my choice and I do think Hartley got cold feet after meeting the board .

 

So you start a thread on how great Hartley is and have him as an icon, yet he's never played for us and, according to your information, would probably have turned down an offer had it been forthcoming.  You would prefer ICT to offer Hartley the job so we could celebrate being turned down?  Where is the advantage in that?

 

I would have preferred Hartley too but my first choice was Jimmy Calderwood.  Given that he isn't and never has been the manager (or a player) for ICT, I'd find it a bit weird to have him as an icon and point out how much I like someone with no connection to the club.  Especially if I had information he didn't want to join us anyway.

 

I suspect there's a majority on here that doesn't expect great things from Yogi.  But this is the reality.  I hope he proves me wrong. I'd hope everyone with a liking for ICT does but I'm not too sure.

[clacher_holiday2]

For the record I'm not a Butcher fanboi and was happy to say thank you for raising the clubs profile and attracting players from a new talent pool... but goodbye!

 

If I was to criticise somebody at the club over the new manager affair it would be Kenny Cameron, who is responsible for the appointment and not Hughes himself, who I can say without meeting him is most likely a great guy to work with and be around.

 

The interview process was a PR success for the chairman but in reality looks to have been half arsed and lazy, we all thought there was a battle for the post from a group of up and coming young managers, proven SPL managers and even an ex Scotland manager, yet we ended up with Hughes because he interviewed well?   the fact Hughes didnt have any sort of backroom team or wider network of support didnt appear to even come up during the process, so how thorough was Kenny Cameron (and whoever else made the call)?

 

Why is it the fans of other clubs in Scotland laughed at the decision, yet KC claims he did all the background checks required for the post?  Obviously he could never have asked the fans of every team he managed for an opinion, as to a man they wouldve said he was in-affective as a coach, who would often be ignored by players he was barking at.  Are we to assume the opinions of all of his previous clubs boards were totally different from those of the fans on the terraces, who tracked him just as closely, or that KC didnt actually dig as deep into why Hughes kept failing as he should have?

 

Its done now and like the majority, I'm willing to sit back and accept mediocrity as the norm for as long as this current crop of players remains together with little drive to achieve even further beyond expectations.  Not because I'm obligated or expected to but because I know we have no other choice.

 

Just don't abuse me or other dissenting voices on here for not jumping on board with 'team yogi' etc.

[Kingsmills]

You are far from alone in being surprised by Hughes's appointment. You are far from alone in being disappointed by the appointment and very many of us doubt whether Yogi has the experience or ability to maintain our current position far less improve on it and it may well be that time will prove you and many of the rest of us were right all along.

 

However, that said, I fail to see why you, or anyone else, are not prepared to give the man a chance and can't for the life of me see what's to be gained by constantly voiced negativity so early in the new manager's tenure.

 

He may fail and his record to date suggests he probably will but at least give him the opportunity.

[Guest]

Butcher's gone.  He left us.

 

(and we lost 4-0 to St Johnstone under his guidance - a much worse result than a draw with Aberdeen)

 

Hartley was nothing more than a possibility. Seems strange hero-worshipping someone with no connection to the club that gave no indication of a desire to be here.

 

I'm dubious about Hughes but I'll wait and see.

Oh right I'm a hero worshiper -look at Hartleys record as a player plus 25 caps for Scotland -back to back promotions -took Aberdeen to penalties and is in the top half of the championship with his part timers -yes he was my choice and I do think Hartley got cold feet after meeting the board .

So you start a thread on how great Hartley is and have him as an icon, yet he's never played for us and, according to your information, would probably have turned down an offer had it been forthcoming.  You would prefer ICT to offer Hartley the job so we could celebrate being turned down?  Where is the advantage in that?

 

I would have preferred Hartley too but my first choice was Jimmy Calderwood.  Given that he isn't and never has been the manager (or a player) for ICT, I'd find it a bit weird to have him as an icon and point out how much I like someone with no connection to the club.  Especially if I had information he didn't want to join us anyway.

 

I suspect there's a majority on here that doesn't expect great things from Yogi.  But this is the reality.  I hope he proves me wrong. I'd hope everyone with a liking for ICT does but I'm not too sure.

You can see where starchief is going with this -him and AJ have an opinion and don't dare go against them.Fact remains yogi has bombed already - Patrick should have had the game wrapped up by half time ,some of the posters on here think a point is fine .

I can see hard times ahead for the thistle .KC took the cheap option and that's a fact.

[clacher_holiday2]

We've lost to Partick at home already this year.

[RedCard]

You can see where starchief is going with this -him and AJ have an opinion and don't dare go against them.Fact remains yogi has bombed already - Patrick should have had the game wrapped up by half time ,some of the posters on here think a point is fine .

I can see hard times ahead for the thistle .KC took the cheap option and that's a fact.

Edited December 27, 2013 by RedCard

[Renegade]

As I said before, next season we'll find out how good Hughes really is and it's far too early to be too judgmental.  There were some parts though of the whole managerial saga, that I did find a little odd. 

 

For one, why was Hughes offered a two and a half year deal?  That's an awful long time for a manager who has, and lets be honest, a rather mediocre managerial record.  Also, what was it about Hughes that sent him over the top?  Did Yogi pull off the usual superlatives of hard-working, boilersuits, spirit, passion and his epic banter with those behind the dugout?!  Did this sound better to Cameron than the dour drawls of Levein etc.?  Was it Hughes's promise to carry on as normal that was the music to the chairman's ears?

 

Some of us speculated at the time that perhaps Hughes had lined-up John Collins as assistant or Director of Football, or someone of that ilk, was what put him over the top, but it now seems to be that he had no plan of who his assistant would be whatsoever.  Why wasn't that considered at the time?

 

Not for one moment do I believe that Hughes was the first choice with the players or the board.  When have to ever heard of a man who was unemployed being the first choice, yet taking four weeks to appoint him?  If Hughes was the first choice and the outstanding candidate from the start, why was Hartley approached?  Let's be honest here - he wasn't.  I also claimed a while back that Foran's face didn't match what he was saying when Hughes was appointed - I still think that's so.  Foran also claimed that Hughes was the favourite with all the players from the start, yet goes on to say that some had never heard of him!  Was he really the first choice with all the players?  I rather doubt it.

 

Kenny Cameron claimed that Hughes was the "unanimous choice by the board".  While that may have been true, you've got to look at who the other choice was.  That person was Paul Telfer.  Not exactly a difficult decision.

 

Which brings me on to another point;  How on Earth did Paul Telfer wind up as second choice?!  The guy didn't exactly have a playing career that set the heather alight and his only coaching experience is as player/coach of Sutton United!  I mean, how on Earth did that happen?!  What does it say about the investigation process, when he can be deemed worthy of an interview?

 

Obviously, Hughes is now our man and we're stuck with him for the time being.  As I said earlier in the thread, it's too early to judge him, and he was by no means the man the majority wanted, but nor was he the worst candidate suggested.  Next season we'll find out how good he really is, but there were some parts of the whole saga which were a little strange to say the least.

[AJS]

 

 

 

Butcher's gone.  He left us.

 

(and we lost 4-0 to St Johnstone under his guidance - a much worse result than a draw with Aberdeen)

 

Hartley was nothing more than a possibility. Seems strange hero-worshipping someone with no connection to the club that gave no indication of a desire to be here.

 

I'm dubious about Hughes but I'll wait and see.

Oh right I'm a hero worshiper -look at Hartleys record as a player plus 25 caps for Scotland -back to back promotions -took Aberdeen to penalties and is in the top half of the championship with his part timers -yes he was my choice and I do think Hartley got cold feet after meeting the board . So you start a thread on how great Hartley is and have him as an icon, yet he's never played for us and, according to your information, would probably have turned down an offer had it been forthcoming.  You would prefer ICT to offer Hartley the job so we could celebrate being turned down?  Where is the advantage in that?

 

I would have preferred Hartley too but my first choice was Jimmy Calderwood.  Given that he isn't and never has been the manager (or a player) for ICT, I'd find it a bit weird to have him as an icon and point out how much I like someone with no connection to the club.  Especially if I had information he didn't want to join us anyway.

 

I suspect there's a majority on here that doesn't expect great things from Yogi.  But this is the reality.  I hope he proves me wrong. I'd hope everyone with a liking for ICT does but I'm not too sure.

You can see where starchief is going with this -him and AJ have an opinion and don't dare go against them.Fact remains yogi has bombed already - Patrick should have had the game wrapped up by half time ,some of the posters on here think a point is fine .

I can see hard times ahead for the thistle .KC took the cheap option and that's a fact.

 

 

I've never met someone who obsesses over what I say before  . 

 

Yogi was nowhere near my top choice. But he is the manager of my football club and it would be wrong of me (or anyone) to instantly dismiss him when he is new to the job. 

 

I dont really see how he is bombing. He's got our best result against Partick so far this season...

[Sneckboy]

Merry Xmas Renegade. I liked your post, there. Articulated much of what I've been thinking and feeling.

 

I spent Christmas down-south in the company of (amongst others) a Dundee fan who roundly mocked ICT's backward step in appointing Hughes. To be honest, I found it hard to justify the board's choice despite my best efforts. I'd argue black-was-white when it comes to 'defending' Caley Thistle, but I eventually conceded that JH was certainly not who I had in mind as the man to take us forward!

 

Interestingly, as an outsider, he was aware that a "long-serving, senior director" resigned during the recruitment process...maybe something we've not given enough credence to. 

 

Yes, we're all loyal to our team and defend them to the hilt, but it's also okay to acknowledge a catastrophic error. I'm sure most 'diehard' Cardiff City supporters are, today, disgusted by their Chaiman's decision to sack their boss. Being a fan doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with every decision your club makes.

 

One doesn't have to toe-the-part-line to be 100% behind the club. Managers come-and-go. The club is the constant. It's unrealistic to expect us to get the managerial appointment right all the time.

 

Beating Hearts in the League Cup semi is a very realistic expectation but won't 'prove' Hughes is the right man. He'd simply be in the right man in the right place at the right time.

Pass the sherry...

 

 

[alternative maryhill]

 

As I said before, next season we'll find out how good Hughes really is and it's far too early to be too judgmental.  There were some parts though of the whole managerial saga, that I did find a little odd. 

 

For one, why was Hughes offered a two and a half year deal?  That's an awful long time for a manager who has, and lets be honest, a rather mediocre managerial record.  

 

Like you I'm quite intrigued at how the board arrived at the shortlist and at the emergence of Telfer's name seemingly from nowhere, although if he had been given the job on the basis of promising coaching work that had gone under the radar, then it wouldn't have been all that inconsistent with previous appointments like Robertson and Brewster.

 

I don't think the two-and-a-half year deal was all that surprising though; in fact I would have been surprised if it had been less, as it would quite possibly have sent a message, both to Hughes and the fans, that the club were hedging their bets, and wouldn't have inspired confidence (you could argue, of course, that the appointment hasn't been that well met anyway, but people who were going to criticise the appointment would have done so anyway, regardless of the length of the deal, and would probably have just pointed to the short length of the contract as support for their arguments). There's no guarantee that Hughes would have accepted a shorter contract, but even if he had, and went on to do well enough that other clubs were interested, then wouldn't he be less likely to show loyalty to a club that hadn't shown a great deal of faith in him with their initial contract offer? If it came to it, it wouldn't break the club financially to pay off a two-and-a-half year contract a year early, while it still ties the manager to the club for a decent length of time if his first couple of seasons turn out to be a success and allows for a decent period in which to negotiate a new deal.

 

I think you're absolutely right that we won't be able to judge him fully until next year. I do think that he might be a little unlucky in that a fairly thin squad performed outstandingly in the first few months of the season and (Vincent apart) also got very lucky with injuries. Hughes is likely to preside over a period where there are natural drops in form, where players are injured and where some of the Butcher-signed replacements may be shown up as wanting, and where teams have grown better at nullifying the threats our players present. The worst-case scenario is that he also has to cope with the loss of McKay in January. At the same time, the way he responds to issues like these should give us some sense of where his strengths lie.

 

So far there hasn't been a lot to be critical of, nor a great deal to get excited about. I was impressed by the way he team came out with a renewed sense of purpose and took the game to the opposition in each of his first three games in charge, suggesting that he's a pretty effective half-time speaker; on the other hand, the line-up and tactics for yesterday's game didn't seem right, although maybe I'm suffering from inflated expectations. The Celtic game is probably just going to be one to forget, but January and February are going to be testing times - can he win the first full derby? (Surely...) Can he take anything from the away games at Motherwell and Aberdeen and keep us up in the mix with them? Can he better Butcher and get us to our first cup final? Whether fair or not, a lot of people's opinions of him will probably be strongly influenced by those games.                   

Edited December 27, 2013 by alternative maryhill

[Council Juice]

 

Errrr he wasn't my 1st choice (or 2nd or 3rd), but can we not give him to the end of the season at least before declaring him as the devil incarnated.

His record shows nothing to suggest that he will immediately destroy any team he's at. In fact if anything the team he has left behind at any club is usually a far stronger one than he inherited... in every case, no matter his personal success. 

People are acting like we've re hired Brewster. It's downright barmy.

Yes he's not the most articulate, but it's not top of my agenda when he's involved in football, especially given that intelligence is evidently not a qualification required to critique football managers 3 games into their job

Lets look at those 3. 1st one St Mirren. Draw. Good result. Has anyone seen how dire our record is against St Mirren. It's not that good. I was fairly satisfied with a point as it was one on the fixture list that I had marked as a banana skin. Hearts Win 2-0 away. Good result, though expected against an inexperienced much weakened Hearts. tynecastle is still a very unhappy hunting ground for us. Aberdeen 4-3 loss. He must have said something worthwhile in the dressing room to change it round because we were dead and buried. Aberdeen however have been flying of late and are another team we tend to not get many point of.  4 points from 9 is fairly good from 3 tough fixtures and some people really need a realitiy check.

I agree with you overall, but we have a dire record against St Mirren? Never. We've dished out a few hammerings to them over the years and I think we've only lost once at their new place, last season in midweek.

Tynecastle a very unhappy hunting ground? Hearts are a huge club who would see us as a minnow and yet over the years I can hardly ever remember going there and getting humped. Nothing but happy memories in fact.

 

We don't seem to pick up a great deal of wins against St Mirren down there. At home yes we've had a good few results but away its pretty even and I always remember draws. 

Hearts have a fairly good record at Tynecastle against us, though in recent times we've perhaps changed that due to their struggles. I'd still say going to Hearts at any time and getting a 2-0 win is a good result. Just as getting a draw at St Mirren is nothing unusual.

[Sneckboy]

ICT's record in Paisley against St. Mirren is more than decent!

 

All-time, all competitions...

Played 22, won 9, drawn 8, lost 5.  (averaging 1.6 points per game)

 

More recently, since our return to the 'SPL',

Played 7, won 3, drawn 3, lost 1.  (averaging 1.7 points per game)

 

[The Mantis]

ICT's record in Paisley against St. Mirren is more than decent!

 

All-time, all competitions...

Played 22, won 9, drawn 8, lost 5.  (averaging 1.6 points per game)

 

More recently, since our return to the 'SPL',

Played 7, won 3, drawn 3, lost 1.  (averaging 1.7 points per game)

Thanks Sneckboy. Can you prove me right for Hearts too

[Alex MacLeod]

ICT's record in Paisley against St. Mirren is more than decent!

 

All-time, all competitions...

Played 22, won 9, drawn 8, lost 5.  (averaging 1.6 points per game)

 

More recently, since our return to the 'SPL',

Played 7, won 3, drawn 3, lost 1.  (averaging 1.7 points per game)

Not sure where you got stats from Sneckboy. Soccerbase head to head has us Won 23 Drawn 13 and nine losses against St Mirren in all comps. Are you just counting SPL games?

Against Hearts its.8 wins 10 draws and 11 losses. 5 of those wins have been at Tynecastle

Edited December 29, 2013 by Alex MacLeod

[Sneckboy]

I was only counting our away record against St. Mirren, Alex, to 'counter' the poster who felt we had a relatively poor return in Paisley.

[Guest]

ICT's record in Paisley against St. Mirren is more than decent!

All-time, all competitions...

Played 22, won 9, drawn 8, lost 5. (averaging 1.6 points per game)

More recently, since our return to the 'SPL',

Played 7, won 3, drawn 3, lost 1. (averaging 1.7 points per game)

Not sure where you got stats from Sneckboy. Soccerbase head to head has us Won 23 Drawn 13 and nine losses against St Mirren in all comps. Are you just counting SPL games?

Against Hearts its.8 wins 10 draws and 11 losses. 5 of those wins have been at Tynecastle Sneckboy makes it up as he goes along -5 points from a possible 15 is a worry

Edited December 30, 2013 by Guest

[Council Juice]

I'm saying the results attained are not out of the ordinary and both are not easy places to go. As you can see from our own stats we do draw often against St Mirren.

[starchief]

Draw away to the Saints.  Decent but not incredible.

 

Terrible first half against the Dons, with an admirable 2nd.  Mixed.

 

1-0 loss to Celtic to an early goal. Well, they haven't lost all season.  I tend to take results against Celtic with a pinch of salt, be they a win, massive loss or draw.  They're out of everyone's league (...in a manner of speaking...).  No matter the result, it is completely up to how Celtic play.

 

Overall: bare pass to marginal fail.  Displays ability but loses concentration at times.  Shows the potential to do better.

[Renegade]

While it wasn't a bad performance against Celtic, I see we had our first real taste of the John Hughes Signature Tactic Spectacular!  You know, that tactic he used at Falkirk and Livingston (and probably others), where we earned the title of playing 'good football'.

 

That tactic is as follow - 

 

Goalkeeper passes a goal-kick along the ground to the full-back......who passes it back to the keeper.......who passes it to a centre back....who passes it back to the other centre back.....who passes it back to the keeper......who passes to the other full-back......who passes it to a centre-back......who passes it back to the full-back.....who passes it back to the keeper....who launches it up the park!

 

Not really 'good football' is it, and we knew it was going to happen.  We all want to see the ball on the deck, but I really was on the brink of pulling my hair-out at times, with this going nowhere passing, particularly when we were a goal down and needing to be a bit more direct.

[old caley girl]

While it wasn't a bad performance against Celtic, I see we had our first real taste of the John Hughes Signature Tactic Spectacular!  You know, that tactic he used at Falkirk and Livingston (and probably others), where we earned the title of playing 'good football'.

 

That tactic is as follow - 

 

Goalkeeper passes a goal-kick along the ground to the full-back......who passes it back to the keeper.......who passes it to a centre back....who passes it back to the other centre back.....who passes it back to the keeper......who passes to the other full-back......who passes it to a centre-back......who passes it back to the full-back.....who passes it back to the keeper....who launches it up the park!

 

Not really 'good football' is it, and we knew it was going to happen.  We all want to see the ball on the deck, but I really was on the brink of pulling my hair-out at times, with this going nowhere passing, particularly when we were a goal down and needing to be a bit more direct.

To be fair I don't think this is a new tactic since Hughes has arrived. Seen several times under Butcher as well.

[TopSix]

Fair play to him yesterday morning getting stuck in to the pitch covers.

[NoIInTeam]

Done nothing wrong so far IMHO. Waaaaay to early for any judgements positive or negative

[Rival]

I blame the merger.