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Inverness C.T. -V- Dundee Utd


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Whilst in the happy clapper camp and having only seen the game on TV, I am unable to comment, with any degree of knowledge, on the overall play of Ross today.

I do however feel that Butcher and now Hughes are/ were in a better position to judge him via training and match day than someone who wishes him punted to Elgin on the strength of their tremendous in depth knowledge of the player whilst only watching a game.

Is it possible when playing that he, Ross, may be following instructions from the bench that this pundit is unaware of?

Is it possible on the other hand that this pundit is correct and both the managers are so crap that they can be replaced by a keyboard warrior at little expense to our club?

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Was good to see Polworth and Christie on the pitch at the same time today. The sons of Inverness football royalty! 

 

On a separate note, with a squad of 21 'first-teamers' and with 4 players out (Draper, Foran, Watkins and Vincent), we had a squad of 17 available today - effectively 'enforcing' the manager into selecting an U20 player for the bench.

But, there were two! - Adam Evans and Joe Gorman. I just wonder what's happening with Matt Cooper?

Despite having previously made a handful of appearances, he's not been considered at all recently. I rate him, but see him being released at the end of the season.

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I thought Ross did okay today too.  Dreadful penalty but he tidies up well and provides some good touches.  Never a dominant player but we'd be much less creative without him. 

 

Not half as dreadful as Jason Puncheon's for my other team this weekend!

Watched all but the first 15mins on TV, thought the best match I have seen on TV this season. We were lucky with the penatly not given against us, but overall considering the midield we could put out, we played some good stuff....Doran had the best game I have seen him play, Shinnie did a good job in midfield, Tremaco doing well at left back and useful games from Polworth and Williams, Greenhalgh had a tidy cameo as sub. Overall given recent results very heartening.

 

Crowd looked very sparse on TV and no atmosphere at all. bar last 5-10mins

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EAGLE4CALEY

 

Something positive is happening which may or may not be good for our respective personalities --you and I are almost in total agreement on this one. :clapping:

 

I fell asleep about fifteen minutes BEFORE  the end of the game so I missed the Christie sub but from the game that I did see I feel this way:-

 

These cameras for Setanta or whatever are fabulous. Either that or it was the HD I was viewing. Also plaudits to the camerapersons, a bunch of toilers who often go unsung--in all weathers.

 

 It was an evenly-matched contest by two fit teams who worked hard, By the end of the first half ICT were dominant. D. U. are a hard-enough working team but their possession ratio,on the day, was not as high as ours. 

Our team was dominant in the second but did not use the wings enough i.m.h.o. They should do that and then cross the ball hard across the goalmouth  for any touch that would deflect it in. And how often did we see wingers running down to the byline?

 

Polworth,  on the left side in the second half, played a neat pass forward to another Caley player but failed to keep running down the wing  going forward on the outside as an overlap which could have allowed him to cut inside in a very dangerous position.and so left the other guy without someone to pass to. I think he could be a very useful player if he was instructed to drive forward and Williams  also seemed to make a decent contribution. But they both need to be encouraged and to be given the ball so they can gain in confidence! With encouragement they both could come good and Williams does loft in a very nice set piece.

 

Doran worked hard on the right  but he could also have cut to the byline with great advantage. Either way he is going to get the opportunity to flight in a ball to the goalmouth or at least get a corner out of it. He seemed to me to be more prominent and dominant ,however, than in former games.

 

On what I saw, Nick Ross was not that bad. He worked hard and stuck to it.  He has pace but seems perhaps a bit too light in the frame. I felt sorry for him when he missed the penalty. He should have belted it as hard as he could and low.

Of course that's with hindsight! :ohmy: Perhaps penalty -taking is not as easy as it seems--in ice hockey in Canada most players miss one-on-ones with the goalie rather than scoring.

 

Why did some players not stand out? -Well, maybe the poster was right who said they are playing to orders. Often though, when Doran was going up the right wing, he had no one beside him to pass to and so was invariably forced to loft a high ball into the box where the taller Dundee United players were able to see it coming and cope before Billy got a touch. Billy's goal was a wonder strike in a very tough cramped area though, calm, controlled and deadly.

 

Dean did his job but maybe it would be a good thing if Ryan  got a spell in the goal too to keep both sharp. Meekings is a bit of a tough character and had better watch some of his interventions, or the team will be short of a man.

 

That ref , Mr Beaton, seemed to be on good enough terms with the players and seemed to use common sense in tricky situations,

The penalty was a no-brainer and was fair. On balance I think he did a good job.

 

Sorry about the Dundee United player who got injured . The ankle ligament injury is a very painful one but, if he is lucky it will

heal fairly quickly.

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Maybe if some on this forum spent as much time getting behind the team rather than the constant carping against certain players, the atmosphere would be better. I cannot believe some are saying Doran should be dropped after todays performance, for me he was MOM. While I am not Nick Ross's biggest fan, I thought he did okay today. He is the one player always looking for space and often is the player making himself available to take the ball, especially from throw ins. He does need to man up and get into challenges a bit more although he does win the ball quite a bit when he does tackle.

Still on the subject of Nick Ross, I have 2 beauts sitting in front of me who do nothing but sit and shout abuse at Nick Ross from the kick off. I had a go at them twice today and they eventually shut up but some fans do need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Fair enough to have a go at folk who shout abuse at players at a game but I fail to see what is wrong with making objective criticism of players on this forum.  If this forum is not for expressing opinions then what is it for?  I don't think it is supportive to the team simply to praise the praiseworthy and keep quiet about aspects which are not so good.  If folk feel particular players are not making quite the contribution to the team as they should be and feel there are better options, then it is surely supportive to the team to voice those views. 

 

Nick Ross has been a "promising" player for a number of years but IMHO has not lived up to that promise.  He has some nice little touches but rarely makes a particularly telling contribution to the game.  He has now had a long run in the team and in my view the team needs someone rather more creative and incisive and with an eye for goal.  I can't see that we would be any worse off by giving Christie or Pepper a decent run in the side.

 

If all our players were available then I would put Shinnie back to left back and play Vincent, Draper, Foran, Doran, Watkins, and Mckay.  With the option of Tremarco at left back releasing Shinnie into midfield as well as the availability of Greenhalgh, Christie, Pepper, Williams and Polworth then Ross would struggle to even get on the bench.  TM4J's suggestion of putting him out on loan is a sensible one in my view.  Personally I feel Ross is not quite up to the standard required, but if he does have the ability to justify him being selected ahead of these other players, it is not being translated into performances on the park.  A period on loan at a lower level may just give him the opportunity to shine and gain a bit of confidence.  In my view that would be supportive of both him and the team.

 

No doubt others will leap to Nick's defence and that would be good.  That is what the forum is all about.  Support the players on the park however bad they play, but please let's not stifle honest opinions about the players on this forum.

 

I wasn't protecting Nick Ross in this but just felt he was being unfairly singled out by some posters, and people at the game, for adverse criticism . I would not for one moment deny posters the opportunity of having different opinions to mine but stick by what I said about some fans at the game today. the level of abuse directed at some players is simply not warranted but has gone on for as far back as i can remember at the ground.

I think we would lose something if Nick is not in the team but I guess the only way to find out is to drop him and try something else. we can all then make a judgement on how effective he is.

 

I diagree about loaning him out as where would we loan him to?. I don't think a first division team would help as he has played at that level already and going to levels below that adds no value at all.

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Nick Ross failed to score a penalty so now he gets slated. Lets all forget the fact that he's scored twice this season. Has assisted in a few and generally has played well. Lets just blame him for us not winning yesterday in a game that we apparently dominated but couldnt beat their keeper in. In fact lets drop him and stop trying to bring through local talent.

 

Why the hell would we put a first team regular out on loan to a lower league? Get real people.

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Whilst in the happy clapper camp and having only seen the game on TV, I am unable to comment, with any degree of knowledge, on the overall play of Ross today.

I do however feel that Butcher and now Hughes are/ were in a better position to judge him via training and match day than someone who wishes him punted to Elgin on the strength of their tremendous in depth knowledge of the player whilst only watching a game.

Is it possible when playing that he, Ross, may be following instructions from the bench that this pundit is unaware of?

Is it possible on the other hand that this pundit is correct and both the managers are so crap that they can be replaced by a keyboard warrior at little expense to our club?

 interestingly Hughes says in his post match interview that Nick Ross played the best hes seen him yesterday.

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Nick Ross failed to score a penalty so now he gets slated. Lets all forget the fact that he's scored twice this season. Has assisted in a few and generally has played well. Lets just blame him for us not winning yesterday in a game that we apparently dominated but couldnt beat their keeper in. In fact lets drop him and stop trying to bring through local talent.

 

Why the hell would we put a first team regular out on loan to a lower league? Get real people.

 

Nick has not been slated because he missed a penalty but because there is no end product at the end of his neat and tidy play. All too often he has shot towards goal and every time they lack power and conviction. He has scored twice..........whoop dee doo, get him knighted. Both were penalties and one of them should have been saved. Get back to me when he starts contributing regularly in open play instead of shirking tackles and aerial presence and lacking power.

 

Stop throwing yer toys out of the pram, someone had to say it sooner or later. Your rose tinted specs are starting to grate.

 

His link play is generally good, he does not often waste balls, but for me he needs to man up big style. If that hurts, then so be it, but it is the opinion that I will stick by at the moment until he shows me otherwise.

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TM4TJ, Nick Ross is a tidy, efficient and reasonably talented midfielder. His main contribution in that team is to creating space, linking with others and creating opportunities for the likes of Billy Mckay. Doran, although mildly more attacking is in the same boat. Slagging (and your irresistable pull towards sarcasm puts a few of your posts into this category) him is ok, but what you're doing is effectively slagging a plumber for being a sh*te electrician. Devalues it really.  As Hughes said yesterday, he slotted in Shinie to win the penalty and created a lot in midfield - and that's his job. The missed penalty was a poor strike, but anyone can do that. A bit of measured criticism would go a long way here.

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I am a big Nick Ross fan and think he has great potential and is now seeing a lot more of the ball,

 

However, I do agree with TMFTJ that his end product is questionable at present and think he needs some help and good guidance and I hope JH is the man to do it.

 

He badly needs to score some goals to help him along the way and the team needs this from him too IMO     

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I cant believe someone is slating Nick Ross for not getting to the Dundee United goal..bullet header, no time to react, whats he supposed to do short of throwing a hand up and making a diving save? Seems a bit of a witch hunt some of these comments in my opinion are well wide of the mark. 

Would we be having this conversation if the penalty had gone in...doubt it!

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I cant believe someone is slating Nick Ross for not getting to the Dundee United goal..bullet header, no time to react, whats he supposed to do short of throwing a hand up and making a diving save? Seems a bit of a witch hunt some of these comments in my opinion are well wide of the mark. 

Would we be having this conversation if the penalty had gone in...doubt it!

 

He's casually leaning against the post, essentially in the net, by the time the ball's past him.  Did he not realise a corner was about to be taken?  If he moves over faster he can at least attempt head to head it out.

 

It used to be Tokely and Butcher that could do no wrong in some people's eyes on here, now they're gone, Ross seems to have taken up the mantle.  :rolleyes:

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Davie, I understand what he is trying to do, but I see players in other teams with more strength. There is nothing wrong with his technical ability and vision. There was an audible gasp when he stood up to take the penalty and unfortunately he dollied into the keepers hands. More than just me that was cheesed off I can assure you.

 

Is there something wrong on these forums when anyone dare say something out of the normal, against protocol if you like.

 

It might not be obvious, but I like Nick and constantly remind a few that sit roundabout me about some of his more attractive traits, but most if not all agree that he needs to man up, toughen up get stuck in whatever.

 

I like your analogy, but my criticism is measured, measured over a couple of seasons of watching Nick. I think Paul McStay might have gone from prospect to talented player quicker...............now there's sarcasm for you.

 

It seems OK to slag Danny Williams on here, or Theeagle or Dougal etc, but look out if our local hero gets mentioned. My bad, how dare me, it's a football forum for football fans ffs, I'm afraid we take the rough with the smooth, or we are in danger of becoming a closed shop/clique and anyone stepping out of line will be horsewhipped.

 

Aye Johndo, our midfield has disappeared just now and we do lack height, with Draper and Foran out and Vincent missing. Next week we will be without Warren, meh.

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A run of defeats including a terrible game against county. Sunday was a huge improvement of late and I'm happy to take all the positives from the game, 4 potential strikers, 2 gutsy midfielders who also like to test the keeper with power and a respected back 4, bring on the D***s, Ooops I seem to have given them 3 stars instead of 2

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Whilst in the happy clapper camp and having only seen the game on TV, I am unable to comment, with any degree of knowledge, on the overall play of Ross today.

I do however feel that Butcher and now Hughes are/ were in a better position to judge him via training and match day than someone who wishes him punted to Elgin on the strength of their tremendous in depth knowledge of the player whilst only watching a game.

Is it possible when playing that he, Ross, may be following instructions from the bench that this pundit is unaware of?

Is it possible on the other hand that this pundit is correct and both the managers are so crap that they can be replaced by a keyboard warrior at little expense to our club?

So the manager never makes an error of judgement or he wouldn't be the manager of this club.  And therefore those of us who watch the matches shouldn't have the audacity to make any critical comment as we clearly have no idea what we are talking about.  What complete and utter nonsense!

 

Whilst accepting that the manager usually does know better than anyone on this forum, managers certainly don't get it right all the time.  Interestingly you mention how the manager sees the players on the training ground as well as at the game, but actually that is often part of the problem.  Often players demonstrate attributes on the training ground that simply do not get translated into the match situation.  Managers then persist in them in the hope that they will come good on match day or simply keep picking them because their overall impression is that the player who shines on the training ground is the better player - others don't get a look in.  Butcher's insistence on playing Barrowman rather than Rooney when he first came here was a case in point. 

 

I also remember more recently when many of us were questioning Butcher persisting playing Shane Sutherland on the wing, Caley D defended the manager by saying we should see the things he was doing on the training ground.  Well, he might have been great on the wing on the training ground but he wasn't on a match day - and now he's at Elgin. 

 

You don't win points by playing well on the training ground - it's the performance on match days that matter and the paying customer has every right to comment on it.

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Nick Ross is a talented footballer but at the same time he is very frustrating. Forget the penalty it was terrible effort but lets not forget our goal machine upfront has been culpable of missing some. I think Nick Ross is in the same category for me as Tom Cleverly at United. They both have a good level of technical ability but my beef with both of them is they dont show there ability enough and always look to pass instead of trying to get forward and maybe use there skill to take people on. I know Nick is not the quickest but what he lacks in pace he could use in guile and a little trickery which he could use. He just lacks a little bit of cutting edge at times and even though i dont think he is good as Doran he has the potential to create just as much but in this respect i agree with Manfer. But i wouldnt suggest he be sent out on loan and ever stop his progression or send him backwards.

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Whilst in the happy clapper camp and having only seen the game on TV, I am unable to comment, with any degree of knowledge, on the overall play of Ross today.

I do however feel that Butcher and now Hughes are/ were in a better position to judge him via training and match day than someone who wishes him punted to Elgin on the strength of their tremendous in depth knowledge of the player whilst only watching a game.

Is it possible when playing that he, Ross, may be following instructions from the bench that this pundit is unaware of?

Is it possible on the other hand that this pundit is correct and both the managers are so crap that they can be replaced by a keyboard warrior at little expense to our club?

So the manager never makes an error of judgement or he wouldn't be the manager of this club.  And therefore those of us who watch the matches shouldn't have the audacity to make any critical comment as we clearly have no idea what we are talking about.  What complete and utter nonsense!

 

Whilst accepting that the manager usually does know better than anyone on this forum, managers certainly don't get it right all the time.  Interestingly you mention how the manager sees the players on the training ground as well as at the game, but actually that is often part of the problem.  Often players demonstrate attributes on the training ground that simply do not get translated into the match situation.  Managers then persist in them in the hope that they will come good on match day or simply keep picking them because their overall impression is that the player who shines on the training ground is the better player - others don't get a look in.  Butcher's insistence on playing Barrowman rather than Rooney when he first came here was a case in point. 

 

I also remember more recently when many of us were questioning Butcher persisting playing Shane Sutherland on the wing, Caley D defended the manager by saying we should see the things he was doing on the training ground.  Well, he might have been great on the wing on the training ground but he wasn't on a match day - and now he's at Elgin. 

 

You don't win points by playing well on the training ground - it's the performance on match days that matter and the paying customer has every right to comment on it.

I will, once more, bow to your undoubted deeper understanding on this subject than me!

I was once told that faultless is lifeless so I am sure we will all agree that Mr Butcher and Hughes are indeed so full of life that they must make mistakes. The point being overlooked is .... it is not a mistake - it is, in the view of the Ross 'punt him' brigade ... an ongoing mismanagement by two managers who between them, have seen professional football up close and ... would you believe, have learnt less than the keyboard warriors on here!

Is Ross a target for EPL clubs? I don't think so! Is he the best we have in that position? Possibly. Can he improve? Of course. Is he going to improve by suggesting we punt him into a team two leagues below us? I would have thought that a keyboard warrior with delusions of Fergusion football knowledge, would even see a fault in that.

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Nick Ross to me is a bit of a tidy, unsung hero. He keeps the ball rolling. Not overly offensive (won't score double figures) and not a defending mid either but he links pay well and is neat and tidy at it.
He's not much of a goal scorer or a assist maker, nor can he really tackle. In that respect he reminds me of Michael Carrick. Derided for years before everyone saw last year the job he does for the side. Always consistent and always in the 1st eleven. There's a reason for that. He's dependable. had he scored the pen and we had won I doubt anyone would be saying anything.
 

How was the pitch yesterday? I see that fanny Jackie Mcnamara criticise it and blamed it on the injury. Normally we're known for having a top pitch, but it is winter and the weather has been quite harsh. I've not seen it of late. Normally it's like a bowling green.
Bit hypocritical of anyone from Tannadice to critique another pitch given the amount of times it's been reduced to a sand pit.

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Nick is never going to turn into a bull from a gazelle. Not in the short term, anyway,  so why not quit whilst you are  ahead and start focussing on his good, positive points and play ,instead of the boring negative criticisms.

 

 I have seen him go into good tackles, hit a fantastic goal from outside the box, score two great penalties with quite venomous shots from such a slightly built player(!), run like a gazelle last Sunday and keep up with the opposition player without flinching or quitting and, frankly, why the heck don't some of you say something nice and upbeat about Nick who seems like  a really decent young man and player who tries his best.

 

Both Williams and Polworth are newbies but no one criticises them. I liked what I saw of them too.   Dean made a few nervous  jumps in the last couple of matches and seemed  a bit shaky  for goodness sake but no one is criticising him in the same way. Williams and Polworth have talent and worked hard and no doubt will come good but why pick on Nick Ross for goodness sake?

 

I think he could be tried with advantage on the wing where he can run like fun,  draw out the defence and may do very well on the right side. If we only have Billy up front how are we going to score goals since he is marked closely now.  

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I'd like to see that SP. Get Doran behind the main striker and Shinnie in a left wing free role interchanging with him, just like Bale without the constant diving. When fit Draper and Foran in the middle of the park. Sorted.

I do think Ross has the pace and passing ability to be a effective winger.

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*Said on another thread and expanded here* Just seen the penalty and whilst it isn't very accurate in terms of height or direction it is well struck. If the keeper goes the other way it would be a "confidently struck penalty"

And it was also his excellent through ball which won the penalty in the 1st place. Right through the legs of the defender, perfectly weighted into Shinnies path.

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