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Red Cards


WYNESS101

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I don't think you can appeal a sending off for two yellows which is a pity as, after seeing the highlights, it's clear that Warren's second yellow wasn't even a foul far less a booking.

 

Meekings was harsh but he did stupidly kick out with the ball nowhere near. Unlikely to be successfully appealed. 

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Both red cards were disgusting and were typical of an overall shocking performance from an official who lacked any real authority on the game and was quite blatantly in favour of Hearts - not that it mattered...we only needed 9!

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It's weird how a suspension from the league can carry over to the cup but yet yellows gained in previous cup games hold against them in the cup.

From this logic a league red would see you miss the cup game(ie potentially Stevenson) but does a cup red not carry to a league game suspension?

I don't think it matters too much with Warren unless it does carry to the league. We could argue he doesn't make the foul and thus does not merit the 2nd yellow. However the 1st yellow would still see him miss the final anyway due to yellows ridiculously carrying into the semi finals.

So does Meekings miss league games or cup games?

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I would like to think we would appeal the Meekings one. Yellow card all day long as it was a cynical trip, but that was all it was - not nearly aggressive enough to warrant a red.

 

I don't understand how a straight red card suspension stays in the cup whilst a double yellow suspension applies to the league? Could someone explain in simple terms for an idiot like me?

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I would like to think we would appeal the Meekings one. Yellow card all day long as it was a cynical trip, but that was all it was - not nearly aggressive enough to warrant a red.

 

I don't understand how a straight red card suspension stays in the cup whilst a double yellow suspension applies to the league? Could someone explain in simple terms for an idiot like me?

 

It depends on why the red card was issued. Yellow cards only apply to the competition they are issued in, so a red for two yellows means that the suspension is for the next however many games in that competition.

 

For denying a goal scoring opportunity, the suspension applies to the competition that the red cars was issued in.

 

For violent conduct, or serious foul play, the suspension applies to the next however many games in any competition.

 

I am guessing that Meekings went for either violent conduct or serious foul play - no way is hacking someone down about 90 yards from goal denying a goal scoring opportunity. So if he gets banned for two games, it will be 1 in the Scottish cup and one in the league.

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I don't think it can be appealed due to the ref interpreting it as he saw it. I could well be wrong like.

 

I think you can appeal a straight red - you can't appeal yellow cards. Ironically, as Warren doesn't miss a game until the final, and Meekings should be clear for the final it may be better to just take our medicine.

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I would like to think we would appeal the Meekings one. Yellow card all day long as it was a cynical trip, but that was all it was - not nearly aggressive enough to warrant a red.

 

I don't understand how a straight red card suspension stays in the cup whilst a double yellow suspension applies to the league? Could someone explain in simple terms for an idiot like me?

 

 

Meekings' laughable red was listed on the news wires as "serious foul play". 

 

If that is the case, then as others have posted above, he will be instantly suspended for the next ICT game regardless of which competition that game is in (unless we appeal it in which case I believe he would serve the ban immediately after the appeal is heard if we lose the appeal). So, assuming we don't appeal, he will be out for the cup this weekend and depending on how the SPFL disciplinary committee view it he may be awarded a further game or two if they think it is warranted. 

 

Only two red card offences - serious foul play and violent conduct - carry an instant ban that transcends any and all competitions. Other offences (second yellows, accumulation of yellows, or 'lesser' red cards) are served in the competition they were received in. His was listed as serious foul play so he is out of the next game. Hope that explains it simply ?

 

 

Going back to Warren for a second: Personally I think the idea that 1 yellow card earlier in a competition can ban you from the final if you happen to pick up another along the way is ridiculous. How many times have we seen players from numerous teams who put in hard honest shifts and - especially in the case of defenders - pick up a booking or two over the course of a competition. The final is huge for ICT and you have to think it is also a huge occasion for players in their careers. to lose out for simply doing your job is stupid and nonsensical. Maybe it is time to review for future competitions and maybe up it to 3 yellows or to wipe all bookings for each team when it comes to the quarters or semis ?

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The annoying thing is that both Warren's yellows were ridiculous. The first was soft, and the second was a foul by Watkins, but then if Watkins had got booked for it he'd have been of instead.

 

Didn't have a problem with Watkin's booking, he tripped the guy who had got away from him.

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Amidst all the righteous indignation about the injustice of the red cards, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the players must share some of the blame - it is not all down to poor refereeing decisions.  Warren's second yellow was an awful decision but he wouldn't have been off if he hadn't got the first yellow and I don't think he can have any complaints on that.  With no chance of getting the ball he puts his arms up as if to say "I'm here but I'm not making a challenge for the ball" but yet he steps into the Hearts players path.  He knew exactly what he was doing and the referee got that one right.  He was on a tightrope after that.

 

You could argue that justice was done with Meekings.  Whilst the offence that gave him the red was never a sending off offence, it was certainly an intentional and cynical foul and a very unnecessary one.  If he hadn't been so petulant then there would have been no decision for the referee to make.  Also, he could easily have got a yellow for the foul that led to the second goal in which case his later foul would have seen him off in any case.

 

We can't do anything about poor refereeing decisions but the club should be able to drill some discipline into the players so that they don't pick up cards as a result of challenges where there is clearly no real attempt or chance to win the ball.

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Amidst all the righteous indignation about the injustice of the red cards, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the players must share some of the blame - it is not all down to poor refereeing decisions.  Warren's second yellow was an awful decision but he wouldn't have been off if he hadn't got the first yellow and I don't think he can have any complaints on that.  With no chance of getting the ball he puts his arms up as if to say "I'm here but I'm not making a challenge for the ball" but yet he steps into the Hearts players path.  He knew exactly what he was doing and the referee got that one right.  He was on a tightrope after that.

 

You could argue that justice was done with Meekings.  Whilst the offence that gave him the red was never a sending off offence, it was certainly an intentional and cynical foul and a very unnecessary one.  If he hadn't been so petulant then there would have been no decision for the referee to make.  Also, he could easily have got a yellow for the foul that led to the second goal in which case his later foul would have seen him off in any case.

 

We can't do anything about poor refereeing decisions but the club should be able to drill some discipline into the players so that they don't pick up cards as a result of challenges where there is clearly no real attempt or chance to win the ball.

 

Our players are ill disciplined?  Can I draw your attention to Robinson's lunge on Mckay in the first half and Hamill's professional foul on Watkins.

 

The referee is there to produce a level playing field for both teams and I don't think anyone believes that happened on Sunday.  Players make rash decisions and should rightly be punished, likewise I'd say the referee certainly made a rash call for the red card.  

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The referee bottled the decision with regard to the two footed tackle on Billy. He went into the match conscious that he had sent Hamill off for heading the ball at Inverness when we first played Hearts and this may have influenced his judgement. All commentators have been critical of him in their assessment of the semi final.

 

Players have to adapt to the personality of a referee in every game. Warren was certainly walking a tightrope. He will argue that Hamill deliberately ran into him whilst Hamill and the referee deemed it a body check. Dundee United felt their player was body checked in the box against Partick this weekend but no action was taken. Warren did commit other fouls but it is unclear if he was at fault in any way with the apparent foul that lead to his sending off.

 

It is irrelevant how many fouls Meekings committed before the straight red. He was completely innocent at that point and the referee could only judge him on the impulsive foul he gave away. With both Warren and Meekings the referee seemed impulsive with his red cards. On the face of it the referee became the centre of attention. Josh's straight red lacked credibility but for one reason or another, just like Hamill's sending off in Inverness, the decision was rapid and impulsive.

 

I have also pointed out that I believe Hamill actually conceded a penalty one minute before Nick equalised. He went to tap his goalkeeper for taking the ball cleanly but he inadvertently touched the ball in the keeper's hands. Not only is that a penalty but also a sending off. 

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The manager should also share some blame. Warren's yellows were soft but he could have been yellow carded for the foul before the sendaing off. I'm sure that I wasn't the only one shouting for him to be subbed before the inevitable. Meekings' was a yellow and no way a red. The referee might take into account previous infringements when issuing a yellow but not a straight red. The system of match suspensions is as clear as mud to me. It didn't seem reasonable that Stevenson was able to use a re-scheduled game to avoid missing the cup game although I can't remember what his red was for.

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