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Should Hughes be SACKED?


Guest Mahonio

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I was indicating ( Crystal ball wise) about the situation in a years time if the board don't sort out the mess we are in and likely to be

 

And you know it  so why the pedantic post?

 

I can see Messrs Warren , Meekings,  McKay, Doran  and maybe Ross heading to Hibernian in the summer

 

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Laurence --you certainly have come out of the woodwork with some bizarre views.

Such as :" Half our team will go to Hibs?"  Baloney! I give them more credit for staying at ICT than you obviously do and for good reason. Butcher betrayed us --in advance before he actually left, for one thing. He is a desperate man now and cannot be trusted.

 

Your views on swearing on here do create concern . We now assume that you fully approve of it. Well, there is nothing like setting out your stall in public. If, as you say, the poster is entitled to pit talk because his or her command of the English language is very poor then I suppose that poor spelling is also acceptable as an excuse to swear as well--check yours and use the spell checker.

provided. If you saw my posts before I use the spell-checker then you would have something to complain about.

 

Re: Contracts : a Contracts are usually in writing so that the terms cannot be changed without very compelling reasons. As I was taught at school--and yes, that wasn't yesterday, meaning the value and implementation of a contract  goes back at least as far as Magna Carta  and the terms of one are pre-supposed to have already been thought out  and assessed etc. etc well before signatures are appended. IT is NOT open for change in midstream at the whim of either party.

In short--remember the old adage: "A contract is a contract is a contract."

 

Here's another  old adage for you :  "" I'll mquit whilst I am ahread."  OOps , sorry, Laurence I am so exhausted  by working in thengardeh today that I forgit tpo ,spell check ...... SHOOT! :wink:

 

 

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Well done Scarlet you have to keep those youngsters in their place from time to time. : -)

 

Only jesting Laurence, 

SP was one on the first employees at the Royal Bank of Scotland.

Edited by 12th Man
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In fairness to Laurence, even Stephen Fry says that swearing is a necessary part of language when used correctly.


But to answer the OPs original question. YES sack him, if only to close this bloody thread.

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This is the win % of each team so far this season just to show that 65% is a very unrealistic target when only one team managed to make it too that 

 

Aberdeen - 54%

Celtic - 82%

Dundee U - 45%

Hearts - 25%

Hibs - 22%

ICT - 42%

Killie - 25%

Motherwell - 54%

Partick - 20%

Ross County - 25%

St Johnston - 42%

St Mirren - 25%

 

Rounded down to the nearest whole %

 

Tsk tsk, you should always round up after 5. The nearest sig fig and all that.  :tuttut:

 

I really don't care about win percentages

Just read Doofers Dad analysis  of the situation about record defeats 

I can see relegation fodder when it jumps out at me

I can see Messrs Warren , Meekings,  McKay, Doran  and maybe Ross heading to Hibernian in the summer

The scenario is grim and the outlook is bleak unless the board make some enormous decisions.

So lets have no more stats and a little more realism. I have watched football at all levels for the best part of 8 decades so I know a little bit about teams going downhill.

The team have not been playing brilliantly, but even as bad as Yogi appears, form under him is of that of around 7th place, not relegation fodder.

 

Contracts don't mean a thing if a player is unhappy and wants out, he will go.

 

Well, they do, and while they can leave they either have to go at the end of them or pay an exit fee, even IF they envoke the Webster rule which there are absolutely no indications of players being that unhappy at all at ICT with Hughes in charge.

 

If you were one of ICT top players  would you ask to leave, or stay and have relegation on your CV.

If a better offer comes in would you take it?

If ICT were relegated next season it would be highly likely that a) any out of contract players would likely leave yes, and try and stay in the top flight. b) the club would likely accept any decent bids for still contracted players to make up for the loss of money due to drop in division. and c) we would need to get any of the higher earners of the wage bill anyway (even though they would have clauses for wage drops)

If ICT are not relegated, and an better offer comes in from a bigger club, and even if we were doing well (as last season) and on the up we'd still run the risk of losing top talent to bigger clubs. Did you not see what happened with Tudor-Jones and Andy Shinnie?

 

Scotty you can get 4.1 against Hibernian being relegated. So fill your boots

Even if they did there is a good chance they will be back quick sticks.

Butcher has done it before, if my memory serves me right.

Butcher did not have Ranger and Hearts in the league, as well as the usual suspects Falkirk and Hamilton. It could take 3 season for them to get up though it could arguably be said they'd be the best off financially.

 

 

This all came about with me trying to show a particular scenario , which could happen

 

In a former life I was a Contacts manager  for British rail. My job was to oversee contracts the emerging  rail companies were signing prior to privatisation.

 

I know for a fact that contracts can be broken . Take for instance a players agent applying to the courts on the grounds of  "changed conditions" - He could say at the time of signing  the manager was Terry Butcher, Now it is John Hughes. That is just one example of contract breaking.  I am not saying a player will. But in life anything is  possible. So to sit in an Ivory tower thinking players can't leave  is not realistic.

 

To make a contract watertight is not easy. These agents are not daft they cover all basis.

How bad do you actually think it is at ICT? From everything I've seen the players seem to like Hughes, even if results haven't been great. ALL the out of contract 1st team players signed new deals AFTER Butcher left. Some long term. They want to stay, not force a move via the courts and face a long protracted and likely costly legal battle.

I'm not trolling either. I'm just pointing out pretty obvious facts.

And yes the scenarios are all possible. But if I will the Euro millions there is also the likelihood I'd invest a little in my favourite club. Maybe even an improved main stand and a standing structure opposite the main stand, as well as some money towards a new training complex and academy......

This would have to be a roll over mind. :cheer01:

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I repeat......under the law  a contract is a contract is a contract. That is an old saw that never varies.

 

In the absence of any qualifying  clause in the contractual Agreement which states that a player can terminate the contract at will, or if the Manager changes etc. etc,, he is committed to that club, NOT the manager or any other changes of personnel. He also must fulfil his part of the bargain regardless of these changes which, after all, are well known at the outset  to occur at any club throughout the season.

 

Any standard player knows that personnel at the club changes, including the trainer, the Manager , the members of the Executive etc.,etc. And that is why the CLUB is usually a separate legal entity, just like a person is a separate legal unit from the next person, meaning the CLUB as a  legal persona can negotiate individual contracts with  individual players on their own behalf  in their capacity as a separate legal entity. 

 

Laurence's view that these legal agreements can be broken at the will of a player or the player's representative is basically meaningless unless there are clauses in that Agreement which allow for that.

If you have seen instances of what you think are easy exits from such an Agreement, Laurence, you can bet your bottom dollar that there are terms in the agreement that allow for this in some way, shape or form.....including the ability to terminate that  contract on the mutual agreement of both parties.

 

If the terms of a contract were not enforceable at law then there would be no need for ANY written agreement between the club and player and the result of that would be that the club's plans and operations would be entirely at the whims of players or their representatives and no club could operate under these circumstances: i.e. there could be no planning ahead with any certainty and no Director would be willing to invest money in that club with any certainty of getting a return on the investment let alone the  return of his capital.  

And THAT is why these valid, enforceable, legal agreements are in place to hold the parties to their word or bond to ensure stability of the  club and in the life of that player as well. Obviously, if a player could terminate at will then the club would equally be entitled to the same privilege so why bother signing an agreement in these citcumstances?

 

However, if a player is unhappy and he or she consults with the club Management and secures their agreement to a transfer or termination of their employment, that may be acceptable to both parties IF the terms of the written signed Agreement  allows for this. If it does not (and remember that this clause would not be in the contract unless the management foresaw that this eventuality might easily arise in the future to the detriment of the club!) then probably only a court of law could adjudicate the issue in my view.

 

Otherwise I do not understand what you are talking about because your views are  bizarre to say the least.

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To the Mods: I have a very strong suspicion that SP's account has been hacked in the last few days - probably by Mrs Scarlet - some very sensible and readable commentary on employment law and pensions lately. Can you investigate please?

 

#wherestherealpimple

Edited by Wanderer
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Och it takes one tae know one I suppose. :smile:

 

Good tae hear frae youse , Wanderer--I have missed you, you old fruit.

 

SP only posts like that after he has had his six-monthly visit to see his old  faither , Daddy Pimpernel,  so we have tae mak allowances , like.

Daddy  is a bit of an old school type that rarely let's down his guard so S P  takes it all in his stride and lets a wee bit of that rub off on him for a few moments of time. Hence the lesson in loquacity.

 

But he'll be back tae his auld form shortly.

 

Love frae Mrs Scarlet . 

P.S.  Heh , Wanderer, have you downloaded  thon book of mine  www.destiniesinmotion.com. .You'll like it I promise. :clapoverhead: and then just show it to the MIssus ' for her birthday --she will be gobsmacked ............ :wave:

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Give him the summer to work on the team, get in the players he wants and mould them to his style of play. If after 6 games of next season we are near the bottle and still playing crap football, get him out!

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Please, please can we close this thread now? Every time I think the feckin things died, some joker resurrects it.

Could we also close down the betting forum as I don't enjoy them?  Mind you, I don't look at them for that very reason.  Maybe there's a lesson to be learnt there?

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