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Should Hughes be SACKED?


Guest Mahonio

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Personally I thought we were back to our usual fast paced, direct style of play tonight rather than the slower, short passing game that was on show in recent fixtures.   Maybe Hughes was trolling us

I'll have you know that Yogi lets me pick the team every week.

Brill is actually well on the way to rivalling or bettering the amount of clean sheets in a season at 20 (a record currently held by Ryan at 23) This doesn't tally with the current hand-wringing about

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No he shouldn’t be sacked but if he keeps this torrid form up much longer then I don’t know how his job could be tenable.

 

I was disappointed in Hughes’ appointment. I would have rather had Kenny Sheils, Paul Hartley or even Jimmy Calderwood.  At the time I accepted that although Yogi wasn’t my first choice I would give him a chance.

 

We have been utterly abysmal under his leadership. Prior to the Partick game we went five games without scoring. We managed one home win which was against a team two tiers below us (in a reply I might add). We have only won two in a row once. Under Butcher at the start of the season we went six games undefeated.

 

Yogi getting us to the final was not a big achievement in my book. He managed us for one match in that tournament against a threadbare side who have been relegated since the start of the season.

 

We released two strikers in the January window and never replaced them. If anything happens to Billy then we are left without an out and out first team striker. I doubt Foran can play in that position for 90 minutes.

 

Curtis and Toby were not regular first team players. We lost no players following Butcher’s departure. Sp I can’t understand why we have taken such a dramatic dip in form since he left. Yogi is the obvious variable.

 

I appreciate that we have had a run of a lot of games but I feel we haven’t utilised our squad enough. Ryan Christie for me has been a standout when he has appeared yet he has not been handed a start, Polworth scored last night but will he get a chance on Saturday? Adam Evans has been good for the U20s so why not reward him? Brill concedes five goals in quick succession so why not play Ryan Esson?

 

I don’t go through life blindly following authority so I dispute the attitude that “if the board appointed him then he is fine by me”. I happen to think that we have one of the best boards in Scottish football but it doesn’t mean to say that they don’t make mistakes.  I don’t buy the “punching above our weight” thing either. We finished fourth last season, had very little squad changes this year and were comfortably in contention for a European place before Yogi’s appointment.

 

I really hope Hughes does turn it around as he seems to be a passionate man who I wish all the best but I find myself growing more and more frustrated with him as time goes on. 

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I did some back of an envelope stuff might not be 100% accurate but somewhere near

 

Since John Hughes took over the league table if the season started then is like this

 

                             PLD  Points

Celtic                     17      46

Aberdeen              16      35

Dundee U             15      27   

Motherwell            14      26

Kilmarnock    =      17     23

ST  Johnstone  =   15     23    

ICT                        16     20

Hibs                       16    17

Partick                   16    16

Ross                      15    13

ST Mirren               16     9

Hearts                    16     9

 

I submit my only comment if we take form like this into next season we  may well not  make the top six  Especially with

Hibs and Partick  on the up and up 

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Guest Mahonio

No he shouldn’t be sacked but if he keeps this torrid form up much longer then I don’t know how his job could be tenable.

I was disappointed in Hughes’ appointment. I would have rather had Kenny Sheils, Paul Hartley or even Jimmy Calderwood. At the time I accepted that although Yogi wasn’t my first choice I would give him a chance.

We have been utterly abysmal under his leadership. Prior to the Partick game we went five games without scoring. We managed one home win which was against a team two tiers below us (in a reply I might add). We have only won two in a row once. Under Butcher at the start of the season we went six games undefeated.

Yogi getting us to the final was not a big achievement in my book. He managed us for one match in that tournament against a threadbare side who have been relegated since the start of the season.

We released two strikers in the January window and never replaced them. If anything happens to Billy then we are left without an out and out first team striker. I doubt Foran can play in that position for 90 minutes.

Curtis and Toby were not regular first team players. We lost no players following Butcher’s departure. Sp I can’t understand why we have taken such a dramatic dip in form since he left. Yogi is the obvious variable.

I appreciate that we have had a run of a lot of games but I feel we haven’t utilised our squad enough. Ryan Christie for me has been a standout when he has appeared yet he has not been handed a start, Polworth scored last night but will he get a chance on Saturday? Adam Evans has been good for the U20s so why not reward him? Brill concedes five goals in quick succession so why not play Ryan Esson?

I don’t go through life blindly following authority so I dispute the attitude that “if the board appointed him then he is fine by me”. I happen to think that we have one of the best boards in Scottish football but it doesn’t mean to say that they don’t make mistakes. I don’t buy the “punching above our weight” thing either. We finished fourth last season, had very little squad changes this year and were comfortably in contention for a European place before Yogi’s appointment.

I really hope Hughes does turn it around as he seems to be a passionate man who I wish all the best but I find myself growing more and more frustrated with him as time goes on.

I was baffled as to why KS wasn't appointed especially with comment by Cameron after JH's appointment about "Hughes being a bit like Butcher" or words to that affect but I may add, surely Shiels is "more like Butcher", he would rant at players and more than likely kick door down in dressing room after poor performances/results AND he would likely get sent to stands a lot :P, he was my choice, as a lot on here ken.

My worry is, when do board decide change is needed because last thing we want is another Brewster situation, he was axed a lot later than he should have been which proved costly. I agree that time is needed but how long until its to late, one boy told me on Tues that he wouldn't be surprised if Hughes got sacked at end of season, thought to myself, can't see it tbh as he needs to get his players in, I reckon probably about Oct/Nov, if things aren't going well, thats when change will be needed but I am thinking positively as normal :ictscarf:.

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I'd prefer Hughes to go as soon as, as I think he will drag us down to level we will struggle to get back from.  It's not just disastrous form here but also his previous.  However, I don't expect him to get sacked.  Not now.  Not at the end of the year.  Not Oct/Nov.  Probably not even Xmas, unless we are marooned at the bottom.  Out board are loyal to a fault.  I fully expect to be sitting here next year, with an ICT far out of the top six, struggling against relegation, with Yogi still esconsed in his job, despite having the same players that had us at 2nd.

 

I desperately hope I'm wrong.  Way more than any desire to be smug, nodding my head.  Nice guy though he is, everything screams to me, this is how it was at Hibs.  Good squad without being able to get the best out of them and a bad run of results that he seems to have no answer for, nor any desire to vary the team when it's not working.

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If we get poor results against Ross and St Mirren well what then?

 

. Put it like this Hughes is in the last chance saloon in my book, but who am I just some old couch potato ?

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A number of errors in your table, Laurence, but I've got a program that shows the table between any given dates.

What really strikes me is the 'goals scored' column - we're easily the poorest in the division since Hughes arrived.

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Genuine question. If we sacked John Hughes, who would we replace him with? Jimmy Calderwood? Pat Fenlon? Derek Adams? 

 

I personally feel that John Hughes deserves to be manager next season so that he can have the summer before the new season to get his ideas implemented into the team so that all players are comfortable. I agree that now is not the time to be making changes within the squad and pre season is the best time to be doing that but when John Hughes came in it has been busy from the off and he's tried the best that he can do with what he's got at the moment.

I am at the viewpoint that success won't happen overnight when changes happen but I think given time it will all click together and John Hughes and Inverness CT could be the perfect marriage. 

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Guest Mahonio

Genuine question. If we sacked John Hughes, who would we replace him with? Jimmy Calderwood? Pat Fenlon? Derek Adams?

My answer to that would be either Jimmy Calderwood or Kevin MacDonald (former Swindon boss) but anyone could be available by time he may be sacked. It really depends who is available if/when he is sacked or resigns.

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Kevin MacDonald was my preference when Butcher left and I think he'd have been a shrewd and effective choice.  Whether he'd want to move back up here or not is another matter and I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to stay down south.

 

Jimmy Calderwood though?  No way!  I heard a few horror stories about him when he was at Ross County, so I wouldn't want him any near our club.  Seemingly he was extremely arrogant and walked around Victoria Park like he was doing them a favour.....that's when he was there of course.  I heard he'd regularly turn up at 11am on the Thursday, leave at 11.30am, same again on the Friday, go to the game on Saturday and then go back home to the central belt and not re-appear until the following Thursday!  He also appointed his son as assistant. :blink: He might have a good record at Aberdeen and Dunfermline (though Kilmarnock and County chose not to keep him), but he's a horror of a man, has a habit of falling out with people, plays dreadful football to watch and would probably plough the team full of journeymen Dutchmen, which is not what we need at this club.

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There you go sums it up, there's no realistic other candidate that would be worthy of the job. I have stated that the club missed a trick with not opting for Paul Hartley and Co but the other side of it maybe we dodged a bullet.

Also not forgetting with John Hughes being a long term contract we'd have to pay compensation for sacking him which would render the whole appointment pointless.

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Guest Mahonio

Kevin MacDonald was my preference when Butcher left and I think he'd have been a shrewd and effective choice. Whether he'd want to move back up here or not is another matter and I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to stay down south.

Jimmy Calderwood though? No way! I heard a few horror stories about him when he was at Ross County, so I wouldn't want him any near our club. Seemingly he was extremely arrogant and walked around Victoria Park like he was doing them a favour.....that's when he was there of course. I heard he'd regularly turn up at 11am on the Thursday, leave at 11.30am, same again on the Friday, go to the game on Saturday and then go back home to the central belt and not re-appear until the following Thursday! He also appointed his son as assistant. :blink: He might have a good record at Aberdeen and Dunfermline (though Kilmarnock and County chose not to keep him), but he's a horror of a man, has a habit of falling out with people, plays dreadful football to watch and would probably plough the team full of journeymen Dutchmen, which is not what we need at this club.

Jesus! Thats put me off Jimmy now lol, ok then so that changes my 2nd choice to Csaba Laszlo or Ian Murray.

Out of 3 mentioned, I'd probably favour Ian Murray over Laszlo, he is a young manager who, given time at Dumbarton could turn out to be a good manager, could be a future Hibs manager though so would use us as a stepping stone plus theres issue of Location but it is worth a shout?

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Ian Murray might have been quite good actually.  Done well with Dumbarton.  Laszlo seems a nice man, but he's very very defensive.  That wouldn't suit us either I don't think.

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What puts you 2 off Laszlo, is it his style of play or managerial record?

Not really my cup of tea but I just think he wouldn't work out up here.

Anyways, it's probably disrespectful to speak about other appointments while Yogi is contracted with us but I was just generally curious to see what the other realistic options were because I can't think of one.

I am content with John Hughes being manager.

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My choice at the time Butcher left was by a distance Craig Levein but I don't think he was a realistic candidate (even less so now).

 

Regardless of what anybody here wants, Hughes will rightfully get until the end of the season.  As I've said already my main worry is how we're performing in the run up to the January transfer window, if he carries on producing losing teams as he has his whole managerial career then we could face a bit of an exodus with pre-contracts.

 

I've no idea how stubborn or proud a man the SPFL Chairman of the Year is but if he doesn't admit to his mistake before the next festive period, it could turn out to be even more disastrous than when Brewster was let go in terms of what squad we close out the season with.

 

This is all hypothetical of course, we could win our next 7 or so games, storm into Europe and then sign Aguerro in the summer.

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If anything, maybe John is a tad too gentle ..but...if he comes on the hardman at this stage when the boys  are down and tired then he will deffo lose the  dressing room. He HAS to think every day about what he says  etc.

 

He came in when the  tide had turned whereas Butcher had the whole team on a roll  which is m7uch easier to keep m going.

 

And, Laurence, you are  not an old couch potato just an old ..CHIP.. off the young block. :laugh:

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Kilmarnock asked Jimmy to stay but he turned it down.  With his record, I'd have him in a shot.

 

Mahonio: I wish you wouldn't be so easily swayed.  It's fine for someone to argue against you.  That's just their opinion.  If it's a good one, sure, change yours.  But it's also okay to keep your own and disagree.  There's no personal attack in disagreeing with an opinion.

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We have an average bunch of players who were punching above their weight. Normal service has resumed and our 'post Hughes table' position shows where we might realistically expect to be given our resources etc. However Hughes is clearly not the man to inspire the team to greater glory and has really given the club nothing since he arrived. Whether we can get rid of him now before the impending disaster next season I don't know but I would still rather have a young manager on the way up than a failed one on the way down.

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