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Should Hughes be SACKED?


Guest Mahonio

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Would we really do worse with an ICT dream trio of Robbo, Shearer and Christie taking over, either temporarily or permanently?  I think not.  Even getting Pele on board as a scout or advisor?  Can't see it being overly costly if we're short of cash and make an appeal to the heart.

 

If it works, then a contract.  If not, then we are no worse off than that guid laddie at the moment.

The only positive with Robbo coming in would be that he's done his homework on ICT. He is usually at the TCS every home game with the BBC and can see what our strengthes and weaknesses are.

It's never good to go back and just look at Craig Brewsters second reign.

I personally think the board missed a massive opportunity by not appointing Paul Hartley and his back room staff at Alloa considering how easy and professional they were to deal with.

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Personally I thought we were back to our usual fast paced, direct style of play tonight rather than the slower, short passing game that was on show in recent fixtures.   Maybe Hughes was trolling us

I'll have you know that Yogi lets me pick the team every week.

Brill is actually well on the way to rivalling or bettering the amount of clean sheets in a season at 20 (a record currently held by Ryan at 23) This doesn't tally with the current hand-wringing about

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Guest Mahonio

Our current dud's record makes, Vogts and Levein's Scotland record look good and even McGhee's Aberdeen record good.

It is time for him to go and whats all this "we can't afford to", what about Cup run money and compensation money from traitors move to Easter Road plus, surely relegation would be more costly.

I would be in favour of Robbo or Charlie Christie until end of season and then Csaba Laszlo or Davie Weir (I discount his record at Sheff U as he took on a "big job" to soon.).

I am not going to criticise Cameron for appointment but even he must know John's coat is on a shoogly peg!!

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It is time for him to go and whats all this "we can't afford to", what about Cup run money and compensation money from traitors move to Easter Road plus, surely relegation would be more costly.

 

 

At the moment a significant loss in income resulting from a reduction in season ticket sales appears more pressing.

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Tansey at right back was a real clanger for me, almost as hilarious as the days of Proctor playing sweeper and why was Christie dropped? He was our best player on Saturday.

 

I want him to do well so badly just so we can put this all behind us but the last few performances have been some of the worst to date, last night being the real tip of it for me. He has totally altered a system that has brought about so much success for us over the last couple of seasons and has all but returned us to the dark days of hoof ball. Talk of winning ugly with the side is a joke, given the quality of performances seen at the start of the season (with the same players) he shouldnt have to re jig things as much as he has.

 

We were warned about the stubborn nature. His persistence of Vincent as a winger (which he will never be) and not playing any of the 3 currently fit wide players at his disposal (which he should) makes it plain to see. Watkins and Ross are more than capable while Williams may not be the best but would at least be in his regular position, yet theyve been ignored.

 

The only good thing that Ive seen is the development of the young lads. Evans looks promising while Christie has the potential to be a great player for us, last nights goal and cameo paying justice to that, it leads to the question of why was he dropped in the first place?

 

I really just want this season to end, it all but did after the final. We are staggering towards the finish line with very little to show for it after such a great start in the league, i would have expecting a small slump at some point but this has been a major regression that we havent got out of. Hughes maybe cant be blamed for the start he had when he came here but part of me feels he can be blamed for not getting us back on track. 5 wins from 19 is pretty dire, 7 of those games have seen us not win against teams in the bottom 6, including Hearts. 

 

Part of me wants to give him the summer, but part of me cant help but think weve got it wrong. I would love to see him do well, its clear he is trying to work something here but its also clear he needs to re think it, this is a results business, we aint getting any and sooner or later something has to give. 

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I have stayed out of this up 'til now but Hughes should be sacked just for last nights post match comments. Educate? This was an insult to every player in the squad and his self- praise for the substitutions was pathetic. Raven spent most of his game in acres of space wide right only for us to play balls to feet through the middle. I am not looking forward to our last 6 games, never mind what will happen next season if things don't change. We can't afford to wait until Christmas as I think the rot will have already set in and our season will be lost.

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I have stayed out of this up 'til now but Hughes should be sacked just for last nights post match comments. Educate? This was an insult to every player in the squad and his self- praise for the substitutions was pathetic. Raven spent most of his game in acres of space wide right only for us to play balls to feet through the middle. I am not looking forward to our last 6 games, never mind what will happen next season if things don't change. We can't afford to wait until Christmas as I think the rot will have already set in and our season will be lost.

 

Personally, I thought that very insulting to our squad indeed and I fear it will do him no good in holding the dressing room. What an ill considered thing to say.

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Guest Mahonio

You'd replace Hughes with David Weir?[/quote

Why not? As as I said, I would discount his tenure at Bramall Lane but I would choose Csaba over Weir anyway.

I am in favour of going for inexperienced managers or former player getting job here as it has worked in past.

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Not been there fer the last few games but was feeling it before - Has that vital "togetherness" feel gone.

 

Good caption of facebook showing the league after the last six features - can anybody post it please. That smacked me in the chops.

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I've given this a bit of thought and so the first thing to say is to apologise for the length of this post.  My immediate response to Mahonio's original post was simply to post :frustrated01:  :frustrated01:  :frustrated01: .  I didn't expand on that as I felt it encapsulated my frustration at folk who are not prepared to give folk a chance to bed into a new role. It is, after all, a common criticism that football clubs don't give managers time and this club has a record of bucking that unfortunate trend.  That is not to say that I did not have any concerns, but my view was that it was far too early to judge the man and we would need to be struggling well into next season before it would be reasonable to ask such questions.  Since then, my concerns have been growing and yesterday rapidly took things to a new level - his comments before and after the match and the tactics on show during the match were simply not acceptable.

 

So, should he be sacked?  Rather than say a definite "No" as I did a short while ago, or a definite "Yes", I think it all depends on discussions between the Board and the Manager - and if such discussions have not taken place today, they need to take place very soon because having taken over the Manager's position at a period when the most successful season in the club's history was all but assured, Hughes has catapaulted the club into crisis in just a few short weeks. 

 

I don't use the word "crisis" lightly, but crisis it is.  Hughes has now very publicly stated that the style of football the squad are good at and which the fans love to see is not his style.  His style is to play it through the middle - a style he has not been able to achieve results with elsewhere and which we all know he will not acheive results with here.  Not only are we to play it through the middle but the guys are to pass it at all costs.  No wonder we are creating little up front and are nervous as hell at the back and are giving away soft goals. Not only is it not going to work, it is boring to watch.

 

The frustration of players and fans alike was evident at the game yesterday.  For me it was encapsulated at a first half free kick midway in our own half.  With most of the team moving up towards the 'Well penalty area there was an exchange between Warren and Draper.  Warren was calling Draper back to receive a short free kick and it seemed to me that Draper was effectively saying something like "what's the point" whilst Warren was saying it was what they'd been told to do.  A short kick was taken and inevitably came to nothing.  Presumably when Draper has been "educated" on how to pass the ball to Billy's feet through the 6  or 7 opposition players in the way, all will be well.  If Hughes hasn't already lost the dressing room he appears to be doing his best to lose it and he is certainly losing fans through the turnstiles.

 

If his insistance on his fundementally flawed tactics is allowed to continue then there are number of implications:-

  1. We will not win a European place next year.  Whilst a European adventure at our level may not be very lucrative and might even cost in the short term, the experience for the players and fans and the kudos it would bring to the club would be huge.  The longer term impact would be to attract more fans to the club and it would make it a more attractive club to potential future players.  Barring miracles, what recently seemed probable this season is now highly unlikely.
  2. Players will want to leave.  Perhaps we would get some money in for them as they are all under contract but it will not be much.
  3. Our current form is relegation form or close to.  If this style of play carries on to next season and we lose some of our better players then relegation is a real possibility.  Post independence, a European adventure will mean a trip to Berwick. 
  4. Crowd numbers which are already low, will drop alarmingly and that will have a major impact on the financial position of the club.  This will be a much bigger factor than any transfer income.
  5. Club finances will be further hit by a lower league position (or a position in a lower league) and no windfall through cup success

It is a distinctly gloomy prospect.  Hughes came here in the fortunate position of inheriting the best squad this club has ever had and with most of them contracted to the end of the following season or beyond.  Since Butcher has left others have committed to the club, Tansey has rejoined and Christie has emerged as a real talent.  In short, the scene was set to build on Butcher's legacy and take the club forward.  Butcher and his management team certainly did well in assembling the squad and had them playing an effective style of play which, when the team was on form, could be exhillerating to watch.  Where Butcher was weak was that he was often tactically naive and had no plan B.  It was in this aspect of the game that I for one had high hopes of Hughes.  I believed he could bring a different dimension to build on that legacy: little did I think he would simply knock it down.

 

This is a crisis not just because of what we see happening to the team just now, but because of the potential of next season.  The Rangers and Hearts are out of the equation and Hibs will be rebuilding.  That's  half of Scotland's big 6 teams.  This year and next represent the best chance we have ever had or are likely to have for many a long year to finish in the top three and to win a European place.  With the excellent squad we have available to us it really must be a priority for the club to secure a top 3 finish next season.  We may never have a better opportunity as the following year will almost certainly see The Rangers back and challenging and possibly one or both of the Edinburgh clubs.  Aberdeen and Dundee Utd will probably continue to strengthen. 

 

Bottom line for me is that we simply can't afford to start next season playing Hughes' "through the middle" nonsense.  If he is given the chance and 10 games in we are sitting close to the bottom then it will be too late for anyone else to turn it around.  We have to get back to doing what our players do best now.  The Chairman needs to tell him that and if he won't do it, then out he goes.  Many have said that so early in his contract the Board can't afford to sack him, but in my view the financial consequences of him continuing to do what he is currently doing would cost far more than buying out his contract.

 

I don't know what gets written into contracts but is Hughes not in breach of his contract by radically changing the way we play?  Surely the interview process must discuss a candidate's proposals for basic playing style and tactics.  Unless the Board felt that this nonsense was a good idea then Hughes will be in breach of his contract and he can leave "by mutual consent".  If the Board were conned because they did not have a football man on the panel then they should have the guts to make a sound business decision and cut their losses.

 

So Mahonio, my original :frustrated01:  :frustrated01:  :frustrated01:  to you is now directed to Hughes and his fatally flawed philosophy.  For raising the topic I now give you :twothumbsup:  :twothumbsup:  :twothumbsup:

 

 

 

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His Pre and Post match interviews are an embarrassment to the club and the players.

 

His constant use of terms like "educating??" and "good honest hardworking boys" sounds like these players are not very good,don't have much skill etc.When in reality this is a team that was clear in 2nd place, with games in hand.

The way he talks about rolling our sleeves up and try again etc gives me the impression he thinks he's at a small club who should be happy avoiding relegation(maybe just me but that's the way I think he comes across)

 

He constantly uses the same football clichés like he is some kind of football philosopher and everybody else needs to wake up to his great plan.The only problem is he has no big plan,he's swallowed a few football manuals and talks the talk

the reality when you look at his past record is he fails to walk the walk.....

 

Only one place this club will go with this fool in charge and that is Division 1,got lucky and bounced straight back up last time,i wouldn't be convinced for next time.

 

Get him out now!!! He's destroyed years of good work and the feelgood factor in the space of 4 months!! Imagine where this club could be a year from now if he is allowed to bring players in and wreck the club even more.

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All of what is being said on these pages is exactly what fans of Falkirk, Hibs and Livingston were saying on Pie and Bovril when he was appointed. None of this should be a shock to anyone.

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All of what is being said on these pages is exactly what fans of Falkirk, Hibs and Livingston were saying on Pie and Bovril when he was appointed. None of this should be a shock to anyone.

Is P&B really that old?

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Guest Mahonio

So, are we in agreement that its time for shoes off?

That is more or less what I said earlier on in thread, DoofersDad, it WILL cost more if we are relegated than it would to sack this dud.

I really hope Mr Cameron realises he made a mistake and sacks him before its to late, this club knows what its like to make change to late.

In fact, if players aren't happy with tactics then they should issue an ultimatum to Kenny, either John goes or they do, surely Kenny wouldn't want our best players to leave as that would mean a complete rebuild?

I haven't been against a manager like this ever, even during Brewsters 2nd spell because I knew it would result in a sacking, eventually, and with Tel it was only for a short spell when we struggled in Division 1.

All I can say is thank god I haven't attended a match since Hughes' appointment because I'd boo them off after every loss!!

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Even I am perplexed, Hughes I thought  good that means playing the ball mainly on the deck....good to watch...effective style......... leads to goals......... a la Espania

 

Something has gone haywire.......... surely this is not the style he wants to play ............one pass forward three to the side and two back...... that's just not on.

 

Educate the players....... that's his job......but not all all change all at once.........and not in that manner.

 

Passing yes but constructively with an aim to winning not containing.

 

All action running into space collecting a well placed pass, drawing a man or/and making space then passing using the whole  opposition side of the park, constantly running into or making space and creating chances, that is what should be going on.................. just adapting what they have been doing so well.

 

Must use the wings, there is so much more space gained by doing that and just how many of our goals came from good crosses.

 

Come on Mr Hughes take a hard look at the Team you took over.....use and utilise their strengths don't confuse them with a slow methodical passing regime by playing the ball to foot all the time................ use the space.............The one/ two touch Spanish football is a hard act to follow ............ but that should be your long term aim and developed over a period of time.

 

You can still make this Team great, you can still become a top manager  and imho the best way to do that is to merge your skill ideas where they fit the players talents do not force the players to change............... incorporate their skills into your ideas and go along with the flow not against it........ they will appreciate it more and we will all benefit from the results

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Ive got a better idea as everyone seems confused about how we are playing and that the players are not adapting at all. Maybe members of the media team when they do these interviews with Hughes should ask him properly what he wants to do and how it will affect us. Its just a suggestion but a little bit of communication may help a little. On both Cup occasions (semi and Final) Charlie Christie was in the BBC studio and on both occasions he said what John Hughes is trying to do, the benefits will be seen. Im not asking for him to be grilled but to quell some fans fears they should just ask the question.  

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I think Gingerjaggy's idea is a good one.  It is not a media grilling that is required but politely asking questions about what is concerning us.  As Bughtmaster says, using the wings creates the space in the middle and it would be reasonable to ask him questions about why he seems so reluctant to use the wings.  This would give him an opportunity to explain in a bit more detail what he is trying to do without anyone trying to catch him out. 

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I think what the media team could look into doing is a Q&A video with John Hughes and possibly Richie Foran (players point of view) where we either make a thread full of questions on here and/or on official ICT twitter feed and then the media team can get the more popular questions asked and it may clarify a lot of uncertainty and frustrations.

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Ask him a question and it is the same answers good football passing etc but that doesn't mean he actually knows how to achieve it let the team self manage and get rid of the clown. Unhappy clapper here

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