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Low crowd today


tm4tj

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This seems to always be a re-occuring topic, yet nobody seems to come up with answers? Personally I am a ST holder and dont go to every game for various reasons I dont need to justify, but what has disappointed me greatly and was being honest expected is that we had a huge support at the cup final (subtract the 3k regular hardcore, that still left 5-6k extra), where are they now?

 

What are or can the club do, when cup final tickets were bought do they have contact details for these 'fair weather' fans? If so can they get sent letters, offers, discounts to attend? Everyone knows games like Kille, St J, St M do little to stir the imagination for anyone even the hardcore fan, therefore do the club for these game need to do more to offer incentives to get fans in the door?

 

I dont know what the answer is, most peole say football and fans is results driven - look at Aberdeen & D Utd, when they do well gates go up, even Dundee have shown this, where Hibs gates have dropped. Sadly we buck that trend with always having circa 3k, no matter where in the league or the product on show. There must be other reasons, perhaps its time for marketing to have higher focus, while I appriciate getting an experienced marketing team in place with media and communications skills is expensive perhaps it is needed? Get some public surveys around the town, look at the offers and the way the club is shown, more local business involvment - perhaps on here we are all biased in some way as true fans, so miss the issues the public actually have?

Edited by bdu98196
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Aberdeen, Divedee Utd, Hibs, Hearts and Dundee have about a hundred years of history and generations passing down loyalty to the next generation, so even if people are not going regularly there is something in their minds when there clubs do well that they want to go to a game. ICT (or CT) have been around for 20 or so years and have not built up a latent support. We have also had almost constant success since day one so the Inverness and surrounding area have just come to expect this. I don't have the answer, maybe we should contact MK Dons to see how they sold the "new" club to a non footballing area?

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I was holding back but bud did state that nobody appears to have come up with the answers and Big G raises the lack of " a latent support". There are obviously economic restraints but whether some despair or not the "loss" of two institutions, the resulting merger, the lasting derision between some fans and their families, plus the fact that many Caley and Thistle fans had their own "big" first team has and will still have an influence for years to come. It is encouraging to see more kids bearing ICT shirts in the streets and coming more to games. But when they hit 18ish it is often a case that they have to up sticks to go to University or find jobs. To me MK Dons are the true version of a "plastic club". Many refer to us in similar vein but at least we have not moved away from our beginnings. That would have been akin to a MK Elgin !!

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Our last 2 home games have seen total crowds of approx. 2,800...so even the seemingly established "3,000 hard core" is beginning to become questionably high!! :ohmy:

Dougal and I have always set the hard core figure at 2500. Are the home attendances not also dwindling due to decreasing numbers of the away supports. Again probably due to economics but also due to the A9 journey and the novelty element of the Inverness trip being eroded.

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It is of note that we also had home matches against Kilmarnock and Celtic in the 1st 3 games last season.  Our attendance against Celtic was 4% down on last year and against Kilmarnock was 9% down.  We also played St Johnstone at home fairly early in the season last year (October) and Saturday's crowd was 12% down on last season.  These are obviously relevant comparitors so the question is, what has happened?

 

Well, one thing that has happened is that we are doing much better this season than last.  We have 16 points from 7 games compared with 5 points from 7 games last year.

 

Over the bridge, County have had 3 home games against St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Motherwell.  Last year their first three home games were against Partick, St Mirren and Dundee Utd.  Not quite the same comparitors but broadly similiar in terms of match attractiveness although I would think last year may have seen a little more away support.  Their gates are 5% down on last year and yet they are bottom with no points. 

 

It's early days in the season but early indicators are that we are seeing a significant drop in attendances despite the good results and high league position.  I'm not making any comment on this - just presenting facts. 

Think if you check again DD you'll find we also had 16 points from first seven games last season.

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You're always spot-on with your observations, DD, so your statistic (regarding we only had 5 points after 7 games is from the season before last) can be glossed-over as the general point holds true. Performance on the pitch doesn't necessarily equate to attendances.

 

But to contradict myself, If we were involved in a play-off decider (regardless of opposition) to secure 'Premiership' status, we'd likely have 5,500+. Full house if Rangers, Hearts or Hibs.

It's almost like the natives have now 'got used' to "SPL"' football', it's there when they want. But, the threat of going back to the Cowdenbeath's amd Alloa's would draw back some of the complacent brigade....if only for the big deciding game!!

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It is of note that we also had home matches against Kilmarnock and Celtic in the 1st 3 games last season.  Our attendance against Celtic was 4% down on last year and against Kilmarnock was 9% down.  We also played St Johnstone at home fairly early in the season last year (October) and Saturday's crowd was 12% down on last season.  These are obviously relevant comparitors so the question is, what has happened?

 

Well, one thing that has happened is that we are doing much better this season than last.  We have 16 points from 7 games compared with 5 points from 7 games last year.

 

Over the bridge, County have had 3 home games against St Johnstone, Kilmarnock and Motherwell.  Last year their first three home games were against Partick, St Mirren and Dundee Utd.  Not quite the same comparitors but broadly similiar in terms of match attractiveness although I would think last year may have seen a little more away support.  Their gates are 5% down on last year and yet they are bottom with no points. 

 

It's early days in the season but early indicators are that we are seeing a significant drop in attendances despite the good results and high league position.  I'm not making any comment on this - just presenting facts. 

Think if you check again DD you'll find we also had 16 points from first seven games last season.

 

Oops.  And the crowd stats also related to the previous season.  I've therefore deleted the post! :blush:

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We could be winning the league year in, year out and I still don't think it would change much attendance wise.

 

Maybe our core support based on population really is just around 3000? University and colleges are an interesting point, as I know many a ICT fan who are outwith Inverness and ofcourse, being a student comes with controlling your finances. I know I couldn't make a vast majority of home games when I was in Glasgow and I know I'm not the only one.

 

Maybe down the line when the university opens and Inverness has more to offer to increase student population, then I think you'll always lose out by the time folk turn 17/18 over the next few years.

 

Everyone has there own individual reason for not attending and the chances of remedying every one of them is next to impossible. As suggested, surveys in the city centre or whatnot and other events and generate some numbers for reasons. It all gets talked about very much on here but then, this isn't most of Inverness. We can suggest and guess at the more probable reasons but until we get active to find out why.. we'll never know for sure.

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No answers here either - I just feel sorry for the lads playing their hearts out for such poor attendances. Away support is definitely a factor, but home support is clearly dropping too. As crowds drop, so the atmosphere becomes less exciting and so on we go....

 

I've never been a fan of the peripherals around football, but I think some of the revious posters are right - the time has come to revamp the matchday experience to bring families in. Schools are the way forward in this because where kids go, adults follow. There are some real bonuses to pursue this approach at Inverness: most importantly, there is no trouble at games, so it is a safe afternoon's activity for a family.

 

A further thought - summer football. Crowds will get worse mid-winter and I did enjoy the pre-season in the sunshine. Most importnantly of all - no Champs League or Prem to offer competition. It's all so frustrating....

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Many of the jobs that 16/17 year olds get in Inverness are also in retail. There are a good few young people I know who would love to be along every week but simply can't as they're only shifts are on a Sat/Sun. There are a lot of competing demands for people's time these days. I myself didn't miss a home game for the past 2 seasons and I've only made 1.5 home games so far this season and I'll miss County too...

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That's right PerfICT                 . Go back to my post 11, above.

 

I am sure that if a concerted effort was made to contact schools and try to involve their physical activities , sports, etc in putting on shows at the stadium, the adults/parents would undoubtedly follow.

 

All parents want their kids to succeed so they would encourage them to  tuirn up and do a show , then they would stay to watch the game. Then another, brief, show from the kids at half time.  

 

This has two other side benefits--

1. The kids stay to watch the game  thus re-inforcing  behavior that will lead to allegiance to Caley Thistle in the future and teaches them the game.

2. It fosters teamwork and team alliance.  Kids at a young age are future fans which are going to be the source of future club revenue as the older fans age and drop away.

3, The parents become interested in the game and appreciate the club's benevolence in allowing, and fostering , such events.

    So Their loyalty is born and maybe they become staunch supporters in the future as well as their kids. And it's a safe place for the kids to go on a Saturday afternoon with a pal or another adult..

 

It's all just common sense isn't it?  Can someone contact Mr Cameron --his wife is a teacher , to see what can be arranged?

 

Just asking. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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Throw in the feckin towel SP. How that suggestion works at some clubs is where there is a training pitch or indoor facility in the close proximity to the park. That is where you can hold open training sessions or games between opposing teams. BUT is it just me becos I was as influenced by the atmosphere and the won't to be part of it rather than the entertainment on the park.

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That's right PerfICT                 . Go back to my post 11, above.

 

I am sure that if a concerted effort was made to contact schools and try to involve their physical activities , sports, etc in putting on shows at the stadium, the adults/parents would undoubtedly follow.

 

All parents want their kids to succeed so they would encourage them to  tuirn up and do a show , then they would stay to watch the game. Then another, brief, show from the kids at half time.  

 

This has two other side benefits--

1. The kids stay to watch the game  thus re-inforcing  behavior that will lead to allegiance to Caley Thistle in the future and teaches them the game.

2. It fosters teamwork and team alliance.  Kids at a young age are future fans which are going to be the source of future club revenue as the older fans age and drop away.

3, The parents become interested in the game and appreciate the club's benevolence in allowing, and fostering , such events.

    So Their loyalty is born and maybe they become staunch supporters in the future as well as their kids. And it's a safe place for the kids to go on a Saturday afternoon with a pal or another adult..

 

It's all just common sense isn't it?  Can someone contact Mr Cameron --his wife is a teacher , to see what can be arranged?

 

Just asking. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Scarlet, I know this is not (directly) what you are on about, but the club DO have strong links with schools/community....not only in Inverness, but across the vast majority of the Highlands and Islands.  Not sure if you have seen this article - http://ictfc.com/community/community-news/1366-ictfc-in-the-community

 

ICTFC works extremely hard to serve the community.  Aside from the kids stuff they also run health & fitness programmes for adults and run regular series' of senior programmes.

 

As well as their being an open invite for any/every school to contact the club to get free tickets, Craig is also delivering hundreds for every game to those taking part in the community & school projects.

 

ICTFC only have a finite amount of money and resource...and what they are achieving with that is incredible, IMO.  They have also ensured that even during times when cutbacks etc were required, the community activities and involvement remained a priority.

 

Is it not about time people stopped (unfairly) questioning what the club is doing for the community (as they are clearly doing a great deal) and started asking what the community can be doing for the club?

 

Ok, so I went off at a wee tangent/rant there....but the bottom line is that the club are not the block to more stuff happening.  The opportunities are there if the community were just a bit more willing to roll up the sleeves and work at engaging with the club as much as the club work at engaging with them.

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There is no "magic bullet" when it comes to low crowds or how to increase them .... both items are a combination of many factors most of which have already been mentioned.

 

For my part I think cost is the biggest factor followed by boredom with the league structure meaning you play each team so often. I also would not underestimate the impact of televised football from many leagues which can be accessed for nothing or virtually nothing leading to a "cant be arsed" attitude in some and the disappointment (some) others feel when they do go along to their local club expecting them to be Barcelona or Man Utd and then dont go back.

 

As for increasing the crowds then you can only do so much ... again, for me its all about the overall day out as opposed to some twee or cringeworthy half-time performance. Improve the experience for the fans and hopefully more will come. ICT are trying to do so on a limited budget (stadium bar as one example) but unfortunately its not having much effect yet due to those financial costs for fans, or the apathy and laziness that stops some people going in the first place.

 

I think the club does try to improve things on a meagre budget - the bar being one thing I mentioned above - but I also wonder whether there is more they can do? The two biggest complaints I hear when I visit are the same now as they were when I still had my season ticket more than 10 years ago ... car parking/traffic congestion and the in-stadium serveries being slow/bad. 

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Short term fix could be some kind of incentive scheme to give season ticket holders a worthwhile discount to encourage a friend buy a cheap, or cheaper, season ticket. Lots of options and variables here and also open to abuse sadly.

For me, I couldn't give jot if I paid £350 for a season ticket to have someone sit next to me and pay £100, if that person wouldn't otherwise come to the footie.

And when you get people to come they may get hooked.

Some of this is about imaginative sales ploys IMO.

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The club have tried £10 tickets and friends of season ticket holders getting cheap tickets and it doesn't work. Crowds did not increase. As I've said in another post I don't have the answer but if something can't be done soon it will be a major problem for our club. With no league sponsor money is very tight in Scottish football and we have to think outside the box.

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"Variety is the Spice of Life" and whilst I think the product on the park is pretty good, people are getting bored of watching their teams playing the same few teams 3 or 4 times (or more) every season.  An increase in the size of the league and a revamped league cup (with regional group qualifiers) seems like an obvious solution to that one, but decision makers are far too focused on the short term purse strings....which is kinda understandable given that one mistake could finish any and/or all of us.

 

I'm no fan of TV, but we have long passed the point of no return...and, IMO, the only hope is to fully embrace it and try and turn it to our advantage.  Look at the likes of Darts and the Super League who are thriving because they've done just that.  We can no longer afford to have the game run by people who are stuck with the mindset that "tradition trumps all".

 

If we're looking to provide a product for the next generation, then we first of all need to embrace what it is the next generation want.

 

I appreciate that some of that may go against my previous held thoughts/views....but you live and learn or face extinction.

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I see similarities to my thoughts in both Scotty's post and the those from Caley D.

 

Especially the remarks about T V and getting with the modern scene at the end of CaleyD's last posting. if we don't change as we go along ... then what?

 

Thank you for the  article on what the club is doing behind the scenes. Remarkable!

 

O.K--IHE--then it would have to be a wee show at half-time. Clearly, thought has to precede the entertainment  but there is surely nothing wrong with discussions aforethought.

 

I'm not suggesting a Hollywood Spectacle  -- maybe only a handful  of kids doing something meaningful to them. It's them and their  parents I'm after and an attempt to generate in their minds that ICT is a progressive, human club who are trying  to do the right thing and survive at the same time.   

 

I don't like the word "quit" I.H.E. Once you do that then everything is off the table--and not before one has even looked into it further. Let's just see what can be achieved..  Remember Stevenson's steam engine ..the "rocket" and his quoted remark ''there is no limit to the speed that can be achieved if the engine can be made to stand it." 

 

Let's say it worked. What then? -would you say.."Och, it didn't work as well as I thought it would. Lets furget it, Jimmy" or.. "That wasn't too bad, they are kids ! Let's tweek it and S.P. can show up unexpectedly in a large red bubble  to torment the weans, who can throw things at him...like their  socks and lollipops. And then when he falls over and  can't get up due to his round skull so.... they can play bouncy on top of him.

C'mon guys, let's get imaginative. It's all about having fun  and relaxing for the cause. If the crowd can get one good bellylaugh and they hear the kids having a good time they will go home happy. I promise. :clapoverhead:  :cheer01:

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How about we turn this into a 'suggestions to increase matchday attendances' thread.

 

Here are my 2 cents.

 

First of all the marketing is virtually non existent. If you've just recently moved to Inverness you could be forgiven for not even realizing the city has a Premier League football club. Marketing should also include making the public aware of the various buses to and from the ground that are available. Most Invernessians probably have no idea they can get a free bus to the games. The Sports bar also never gets advertised. It isn't even mentioned on the club website.

 

Secondly, match day experience. Other than corporate entertainment (£60 per person, way out of the budget of any normal working class family) you could hardly call a trip to TCS a 'family day out'. You have the match, and nothing else.

 

Third, cross promotion. The club could cross promote with other local businesses for mutual benefit. E.g. A season ticket comes with a 1 day trial at Inverness Leisure, in return a 12 month membership at Inverness Leisure entitles you to attend one home league game. This is just one hypothetical example. All kinds of 'bonus' deals with local businesses could be incorporated into a season ticket, and the 'one free match' tokens that go out in return would bring in new fans who might become regulars. It's a no brainer really.  

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