Disgusting ICT 'fan' behaviour at Hamilton

[lizi]

 

I accept that but the two families that walked out around us certainly cited this as the reason. As I said in my first post I didn't have kids with me so I am not too worried but parents have to think about their children.

I've always taken my boys, now teenagers. I stood on the Howden End from age 11 but always knew what was right from wrong. I'm sorry but are folk so nieve to think there will be no bad language at a football match? Would have fathered they complained at time tho rather than leave. Maybe a bit of acceptance re the swearing on one hand and a bit of toning it down on the other?

 

I was in the Howden End even before you!  and my Dad said - just don't listen to the sweary words and NEVER repeat them.    I was unable to attend yesterday - unwell - but I can put up with most swearing but the c word is unacceptable in every company - young or old, no matter where.   That's the crux of the matter in my humble opinion.  

[CaleyD]

It's more the 'T' word that gets me worked up....or the 'S' word if it's used in the wrong context.

[Murchison]

I'm not wanting to start any arguements, I appreciate everyone will have different opinions on the matter, and I've been to enough games over the years, I certainly don't expect no swearing or some abuse at players. Yesterday though was, in my opinion, completely different and not what i'm used to at away games (I havn't been to Hamilton before I must admit).

 

It was my sons 2nd game as he has only recently become interested in going to see his Dads team. He enjoyed the singing, the atmosphere, crowds, and strangely enough the guy who was screaming like a monkey? at the end of the 2nd half. He was however very aware of the shouts and screaming coming from one area at the back. It was not the single use of a word (as much as I don't like the use of the C word, I know it will happen and he knows to ignore it and never repeat), but the constant barage of abuse (F***ing pedo C**ts, F***ing beast, i'm going to F**k your mother, you're going to get F***ing battered you wee C**t, I'm going th F***ing kill you you little C**t), which was repeated over and over for most of the half.

 

He had said to me a few times he didn't like it and wished the guy would stop (for the record he was asked to), and eventually said he wanted to leave. People can disagree with what we did if they wish, but i'm sure most parents if their child is scared and wanted out a situation, they would remove them from it.

 

As I said, I used to go to most away games in past years, and try to get to as many as I can now which is harder due to work and kids who previously were not interested in football. I have not previously heard the level of abuse that was at the game yesterday. It is not in my opinion typical of an ICT away crowd, and hopefully is not going to continue to be. I also hope it won't stop him going to more games in the future. I enjoy the away atmosphere at games, and generally they give the team a great support. I do think it crossed the line yesterday though.

[tm4tj]

It's always worse when it's Hamilton as that abuse is directed at Dougie Imrie. I find it tiresome as well and the guys that shout it need to get a grip, it does nothing to enhance the game or atmosphere and if it was directed at someone in the street or pub there would certainly be repercussions. I also find it slightly disturbing that some posters are choosing to diss the opening post and think it's acceptable to turn the tables on them. It's not going to encourage people to open up on here and with mob rule taking over it's little wonder infrequent posters are just that.

 

Let's get back to a bit of morality on here and keep your sniping for your twitter cronies.

[+DoofersDad]

Wasn't there, but from reading the OP it seems to me that what was being said was well beyond the bounds of acceptable behaviour.  We can all moralise what any individual should or should not do in these situations but one point which nobody seems to have picked up on is not so much the individual words used but the message they added up to.  This individual was not just being exceptionally foul mouthed he was making very unpleasant and serious threats - ignorant, idle threats no doubt, but threats nontheless.  This is not just something which would have warranted the stewards evicting him for, it was something that would justify police involvement.

 

I appreciate that folk don't want to detract attention from the achievement of the team on the park but if the OP is correct in what was said, this is not something which should simply be left.  Personally I would be delighted if the club could indentify the individual, uphold the values of what is supposed to be a family club and ban him from TCS.

[Kingsmills]

can we not just brush this under the carpet and move on as its spoiling a good day and us winning today

and where exactly would the brushing under the carpet end ? If the OP is accurate, we should be exposing and condemning it rather than hiding it away.

[+Fraz]

It's always worse when it's Hamilton as that abuse is directed at Dougie Imrie. I find it tiresome as well and the guys that shout it need to get a grip, it does nothing to enhance the game or atmosphere and if it was directed at someone in the street or pub there would certainly be repercussions. I also find it slightly disturbing that some posters are choosing to diss the opening post and think it's acceptable to turn the tables on them. It's not going to encourage people to open up on here and with mob rule taking over it's little wonder infrequent posters are just that.

 

Let's get back to a bit of morality on here and keep your sniping for your twitter cronies.

 

Hold on, surely the OP is fully entitled to their view on the subject and others are entitled to their own and disagree? Not sure what you men by 'turn the tables' or 'mob rule' The mob rule I see on the thread seems to be trial by forum where people are suggesting photos and or videos of people who presumably have not given their permission to be posted here.

 

In all seriousness I was just in front of the person(s) being discussed and while the comments directed at Imrie were particularly vociferous and frequent, it's nothing I haven't heard directed at him before. The people who I believe were upset were possibly 3/4 rows in front of me and although it was busier than normal there was still seats near the front that they could have moved to imo. 

 

I sometimes take my 3 year old to games and when she's with me I stay a fair distance from the 'singing section' when I don't have her, which is majority of the time I like to be closer by, while not directly in among it.

 

Perhaps we should have a poll on here to clarify what language is OK, what context it is OK to say in and what frequency of language is OK, I said the same to my Twitter cronies.

 

The weird animal noises did irritate the hell out of me though.

[old caley girl]

It's always worse when it's Hamilton as that abuse is directed at Dougie Imrie. I find it tiresome as well and the guys that shout it need to get a grip, it does nothing to enhance the game or atmosphere and if it was directed at someone in the street or pub there would certainly be repercussions. I also find it slightly disturbing that some posters are choosing to diss the opening post and think it's acceptable to turn the tables on them. It's not going to encourage people to open up on here and with mob rule taking over it's little wonder infrequent posters are just that.

 

Let's get back to a bit of morality on here and keep your sniping for your twitter cronies.

 

Hold on, surely the OP is fully entitled to their view on the subject and others are entitled to their own and disagree? Not sure what you men by 'turn the tables' or 'mob rule' The mob rule I see on the thread seems to be trial by forum where people are suggesting photos and or videos of people who presumably have not given their permission to be posted here.

 

In all seriousness I was just in front of the person(s) being discussed and while the comments directed at Imrie were particularly vociferous and frequent, it's nothing I haven't heard directed at him before. The people who I believe were upset were possibly 3/4 rows in front of me and although it was busier than normal there was still seats near the front that they could have moved to imo. 

 

I sometimes take my 3 year old to games and when she's with me I stay a fair distance from the 'singing section' when I don't have her, which is majority of the time I like to be closer by, while not directly in among it.

 

Perhaps we should have a poll on here to clarify what language is OK, what context it is OK to say in and what frequency of language is OK, I said the same to my Twitter cronies.

 

The weird animal noises did irritate the hell out of me though.

At least the OP was there unlike an awful lot of folk voicing opinions without seeing it for themselves? However as this is a forum I thought the point was that folk could voice their opinions? Which means we all can have our say?

Taking a step back now tbh. Back to my Twitter cronies where folk can be grown up and disagree.

[caleydawson]

If we were to ban or report everyone who has said "a bad word" you would find we wouldn't have any players to play, no managers to manage, or even any fans, the reason people do it is simple. When you are passionate about something it is only natural to express yourself in any form whether it is saying bad words or hitting the chair infront off you or however people do it when something goes bad. It has happened in football probably from the beginning people shouting abuse at players/ officials to try and put them off ect and people are taking things too seriously if other posters i.e. OCG can take her kids to games and is not bothered by the language, if you look at our fan base i would say about a fifth atleast is under 16 so all these parents are bothered. 

 

Should we really all lose our heads over what was said by some people who might not even be ICT fans at ONE GAME might i add that is a bigger question 

[Laurence]

Sometimes swearing can be very funny

Like singing " what the ****in hell was that", when a shot sails into row z

or can you here the ( team) sing we cant here a etc

So I don't think swearing can be banned, But if it gets out of hand it will stop parents bringing their kids to the games.

[davie]

 

 

It's always worse when it's Hamilton as that abuse is directed at Dougie Imrie. I find it tiresome as well and the guys that shout it need to get a grip, it does nothing to enhance the game or atmosphere and if it was directed at someone in the street or pub there would certainly be repercussions. I also find it slightly disturbing that some posters are choosing to diss the opening post and think it's acceptable to turn the tables on them. It's not going to encourage people to open up on here and with mob rule taking over it's little wonder infrequent posters are just that.

 

Let's get back to a bit of morality on here and keep your sniping for your twitter cronies.

 

Hold on, surely the OP is fully entitled to their view on the subject and others are entitled to their own and disagree? Not sure what you men by 'turn the tables' or 'mob rule' The mob rule I see on the thread seems to be trial by forum where people are suggesting photos and or videos of people who presumably have not given their permission to be posted here.

 

In all seriousness I was just in front of the person(s) being discussed and while the comments directed at Imrie were particularly vociferous and frequent, it's nothing I haven't heard directed at him before. The people who I believe were upset were possibly 3/4 rows in front of me and although it was busier than normal there was still seats near the front that they could have moved to imo. 

 

I sometimes take my 3 year old to games and when she's with me I stay a fair distance from the 'singing section' when I don't have her, which is majority of the time I like to be closer by, while not directly in among it.

 

Perhaps we should have a poll on here to clarify what language is OK, what context it is OK to say in and what frequency of language is OK, I said the same to my Twitter cronies.

 

The weird animal noises did irritate the hell out of me though.

At least the OP was there unlike an awful lot of folk voicing opinions without seeing it for themselves? However as this is a forum I thought the point was that folk could voice their opinions? Which means we all can have our say?

Taking a step back now tbh. Back to my Twitter cronies where folk can be grown up and disagree.

 

This forum is not for moderators to impose "getting back to morality". It is what it says - a forum for the expression of opinions about which agreement is optional. It's not "mob rule" when people disagree, it's democracy. I'm not beyond a "colourful" rant at the football, but I am mindful of those around me and if we ever asked to zip it, I would. The bit about "twitter cronies" if frankly beneath you Manfer.

[tm4tj]

Fraz:- "Nothing you haven't heard before" does not mean it is acceptable to make these comments. People can disagree if they like. That does not detract from the OP which is fact, if people disagree with the facts then that's their choice but it does not alter what is fact.

 

OCG:- Yes, I was not at the game, but I have heard the same abuse directed towards players from time to time. Not something to see for ourselves, it is an audible issue. Nobody has stopped anyone having there say, but if people believe that sort of behaviour is normal then we are doomed as a nation. I would have thought Caley Together or what ever the group are called would maybe check this out

 

Caley Dawson:- I'll choose to ignore your post. We are not talking about your average naughty word, we are talking about some out of order behaviour more akin to Tourette's Syndrome.

 

Disappointed in you davie, and I wouldn't expect these words to come out of your mouth. As a moderator of the site we do have the task of keeping it within reason.

[davie]

I wanted to keep this bit separate. I would be appalled if individuals were named on this forum or their pictures published on it without their knowledge or permission. That is vigilanteism, pure and simple and should not have a home here. If vitriol is unacceptable from ant fan of whatever team, they should be asked to desist/ pointed out to security with a demand that action is taken/ reported to the police (in that order) It's their job to deal with these things, not the denizens of an internet forum.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Shall I delete Derek Adams ?

[caleydawson]

Fraz:- "Nothing you haven't heard before" does not mean it is acceptable to make these comments. People can disagree if they like. That does not detract from the OP which is fact, if people disagree with the facts then that's their choice but it does not alter what is fact.

 

OCG:- Yes, I was not at the game, but I have heard the same abuse directed towards players from time to time. Not something to see for ourselves, it is an audible issue. Nobody has stopped anyone having there say, but if people believe that sort of behaviour is normal then we are doomed as a nation. I would have thought Caley Together or what ever the group are called would maybe check this out

 

Caley Dawson:- I'll choose to ignore your post. We are not talking about your average naughty word, we are talking about some out of order behaviour more akin to Tourette's Syndrome.

 

Disappointed in you davie, and I wouldn't expect these words to come out of your mouth. As a moderator of the site we do have the task of keeping it within reason.

But it is still only one case that we have heard about it this season 

Edited January 25, 2015 by caleydawson

[tm4tj]

You are absolutely correct and I will remove the part of the post pointing out individuals.

 

CD:- Probably because people have chosen to ignore it. Doesn't mean it's not there. I'm no prude and can swear with the best of them, but sometimes the banter goes beyond that.

[davie]

Fraz:- "Nothing you haven't heard before" does not mean it is acceptable to make these comments. People can disagree if they like. That does not detract from the OP which is fact, if people disagree with the facts then that's their choice but it does not alter what is fact.

 

OCG:- Yes, I was not at the game, but I have heard the same abuse directed towards players from time to time. Not something to see for ourselves, it is an audible issue. Nobody has stopped anyone having there say, but if people believe that sort of behaviour is normal then we are doomed as a nation. I would have thought Caley Together or what ever the group are called would maybe check this out

 

Caley Dawson:- I'll choose to ignore your post. We are not talking about your average naughty word, we are talking about some out of order behaviour more akin to Tourette's Syndrome.

 

Disappointed in you davie, and I wouldn't expect these words to come out of your mouth. As a moderator of the site we do have the task of keeping it within reason.

Manfer, you are free to hold that opinion and I fully agree that as a moderator your task is keeping order. That is entirely different to "getting morality back" or inferring that democratic disagreement is "mob rule" You will be aware that I have posted on here and in other places about acceptable conduct, and I've taken people to task about the Dougie Imrie chants before - to their faces - and would do so again. It's factually incorrect, it's tiresome and childish. I'd much prefer that our support didn't chant it. You also need to be aware that Tourette's is a medical condition of an uncontrollable nature, not a voluntary use of vocabulary.

As a final point "whatever they are called" has not been asked to check out anything on this matter and if you want that to happen a clearer description of what you want would be needed. If it's on the issue of the OP's allegation, then a request from him would be appreciated.

[old caley girl]

Fraz:- "Nothing you haven't heard before" does not mean it is acceptable to make these comments. People can disagree if they like. That does not detract from the OP which is fact, if people disagree with the facts then that's their choice but it does not alter what is fact.

 

OCG:- Yes, I was not at the game, but I have heard the same abuse directed towards players from time to time. Not something to see for ourselves, it is an audible issue. Nobody has stopped anyone having there say, but if people believe that sort of behaviour is normal then we are doomed as a nation. I would have thought Caley Together or what ever the group are called would maybe check this out

 

Caley Dawson:- I'll choose to ignore your post. We are not talking about your average naughty word, we are talking about some out of order behaviour more akin to Tourette's Syndrome.

 

Disappointed in you davie, and I wouldn't expect these words to come out of your mouth. As a moderator of the site we do have the task of keeping it within reason.

Last word on CTO for a while I think but do wish to add that my views on here or any other site for that matter are my personal views nothing to do with my CJT involvement.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Fer fecks sake. Last post from me on this thread. The whingeing and the angst is giving me more of a feckin headache than the constant noise of a dog barking or was it a seal and the apparently obnoxious chants. Only one answer for it - one double, double voddie coming up.

[tm4tj]

You would think that "Whatever they are called" would have enough information on this thread without waiting for official routes. Don't be pedantic.

 

If the cap fits wear it, but some of the comments aimed at the OP are bordering on abusive. Morality back on here is all part of the way I see the forum functioning, therefore pre-empted is pre-warned.

 

Your not telling me anything about Tourette's that I didn't already know.

 

The reason I used whatever they are called is because I have a new laptop and am having difficulty moving around the different styled touchpad without losing pages etc. and I didn't want to lose what I was typing to look for the official name.

 

Anyway, opinions are what is required, post away, but don't expect to get it all your own way, after all it is a discussion.

[Kingsmills]

I am confused. While we all agree that robust industrial language can be anticipated at a football match, is anyone seriously arguing that the conduct narrated in the original post is acceptable for fans of our club ?

[+Fraz]

Fraz:- "Nothing you haven't heard before" does not mean it is acceptable to make these comments. People can disagree if they like. That does not detract from the OP which is fact, if people disagree with the facts then that's their choice but it does not alter what is fact.

 

OCG:- Yes, I was not at the game, but I have heard the same abuse directed towards players from time to time. Not something to see for ourselves, it is an audible issue. Nobody has stopped anyone having there say, but if people believe that sort of behaviour is normal then we are doomed as a nation. I would have thought Caley Together or what ever the group are called would maybe check this out

 

Caley Dawson:- I'll choose to ignore your post. We are not talking about your average naughty word, we are talking about some out of order behaviour more akin to Tourette's Syndrome.

 

Disappointed in you davie, and I wouldn't expect these words to come out of your mouth. As a moderator of the site we do have the task of keeping it within reason.

 

People calling Imrie a C**t doesn't bother me greatly tbh, I don't particularly like the word but hay ho. There are may things I get concerned about in my life but people swearing in a football ground isn't one of them. I find things like the 'Diane Brittan song' far more objectionable.

 

Some of what you state as facts are not the case - OP states there were no stewards. Wrong there were and I witnessed them coming up the stairs on several occasions. OP states that they are 'without a doubt the biggest scumbag they've ever seen at a match' how do they know that they could have seen wife beaters, or far worse, but because they didn't swear at Dougie Imrie, they're OK. 

 

I don't see who's been unreasonable on this thread, people have had differences of opinion, just as people will have different takes on what's morally acceptable at a football game.

[tm4tj]

If you wish to be pedantic, then I was referring to the choice of language being aimed at others. Life's too short for me to spell out everything for others on here.

If you don't see where the unreasonable replies are then that's a shame, I'm not going to point them out for you. The biggest scumbag.................if that's his opinion then that is fact, but I take your point.

 

I hear what you are saying, but do you honestly believe that it is acceptable?

[+Fraz]

If you wish to be pedantic, then I was referring to the choice of language being aimed at others. Life's too short for me to spell out everything for others on here.

If you don't see where the unreasonable replies are then that's a shame, I'm not going to point them out for you. The biggest scumbag.................if that's his opinion then that is fact, but I take your point.

 

I hear what you are saying, but do you honestly believe that it is acceptable?

 

Again, it's not language I'd personally be shouting at a game (in the same way I wouldn't join in any 'Dirty G***y Bas.....' songs), though I do use the f word from time to time. However I accept that it goes on, particularly from the more vocal in our support, in very rare occurrences I may add and if I had a child with me (as I have done on several occasions) I'd take steps to mitigate their potential exposure.

 

If people get into trouble for things they sing/say that's on them, I'm not the morality police. Personally I think that everything considered people are very quick to be offended these days.

 

As a grown up I've witnessed some sadly awful things, but people giving Imrie pelters? It's not up there for me. Sorry.

 

If you have a spare moment please do point out the unreasonable replies cos I really can't find them.

[CaleyD]

What I find most interesting is that we have moderators questioning the acceptability of name calling at matches while taking no action to remove or chastise people for name calling on the forum.