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Graeme Shinnie


Crownboy

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I may be wrong but if he leaves for a free rather than for a transfer fee, doesn't that mean we would no longer be entitled to a cut of any future transfer fee's for development costs? He may have passed the age limit for this I'm not 100% sure. I don't think any of us believes the timing of this announcement is for any reason than the knowledge in Aberdeen that we could go ahead of them next week and they're playing mind games. I'm very disappointed that GS has chosen a sideways move rather than show what he's capable of down south but with a Baby on the way he clearly has put family before football so I'm not going to assassinate his character for that.

Edited by phileephilop
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Surely the question of the captaincy ( until Foran comes back I suppose ) is fairly and squarely down to the manager.

I think as supporters we should not pressure Hughes but let him make the choice of captain  as he feels is best.

At the end of the day it is his job.

 

 

 

 

Of course it is Hughes' call.  But this is a forum and we are all free to express an opinion on the matter.  If Yogi ever looks at any posts on here I am sure he won't feel pressurised in the slightest.  No doubt he will have a good laugh at some of the views on here before deciding to do what I've suggested. :smile:

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Warren and Draper are both heavy duty and have the feel of leadership. BUT their indiscipline is worrying. I would pick from Deano, Raven or Tansey.

I don`t understand how one booking in 25 games for a centre half [ warren ] can be descibed as indisipline.

Edited by filtongas
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Im pretty annoyed that we have lost another player for nothing. We let that happen too often with our players and it has to stop now!

Mckay is the same nothing for our top scorer really just remarkable how much we are getting shafted

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Im pretty annoyed that we have lost another player for nothing. We let that happen too often with our players and it has to stop now!

Mckay is the same nothing for our top scorer really just remarkable how much we are getting shafted

Maybe so but unless we double their salaries we will not keep them .The money is the motivator -particularly where we have been over the last 3 years as we are a successful top 6 club

To pay them what they are being offered we need an extra 2/3000 coming through the gate at home games

Much as we enjoy where we are at present keeping our top players isn't going to happen in the near future and at least we keep them for 2 or 3 seasons now instead of the 1 year contracts we used to have

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Totally agree we get well and truly shafted every time. To me this is really short sightedness and horrendously bad management not protecting your prize assets. If we are to be taken seriously as a top six club this needs to be rectified now by the Chairman and the Board. It is unforgiveable that players like Graeme Shinnie, Don Cowie, Ian Black, Johhny Hayes, Adam Rooney etc can leave for feck all because our Board of Directors cannot manage contracts.

How are we really ever going to progress when the rest of the SPFL see us as a soft touch.

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What happens when we next play Aberdeen? You could have the situation that a win for us would guarantee European football and defeat for the Dons would leave them out in the cold. Can you honestly expect Shinnie to put the boot into his future employers? 

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Totally agree we get well and truly shafted every time. To me this is really short sightedness and horrendously bad management not protecting your prize assets. If we are to be taken seriously as a top six club this needs to be rectified now by the Chairman and the Board. It is unforgiveable that players like Graeme Shinnie, Don Cowie, Ian Black, Johhny Hayes, Adam Rooney etc can leave for feck all because our Board of Directors cannot manage contracts.

How are we really ever going to progress when the rest of the SPFL see us as a soft touch.

 

Its not only us look at Dundee Utd losing GMS to Celtic, even Celtic with their finances might lose Commons on a pre contract. All the board can do is offer players contracts if the decide they don't want to sign them there is not a lot the board can do. 

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In an ideal world he would've waited till the summer, but football is a dangerous career - you could get a devastating injury any time you're on the pitch, so it makes sense to get your financial future secured at the earliest opportunity, which is exactly what the pre-contract agreement achieves.

 

He's spent almost 6 years at our club (over a quarter of his life!), so I can't see him having divided loyalties. Put yourself in his shoes. You'd surely want to do your best for your club and teammates, keep on playing the best football of your career and achieve as much success as you possibly can.

Next season is next season. For all we know McInnes, Rooney, Hayes and Pawlett could well be attracting their own suitors at this moment. I wouldn't worry so much about the whole 'mind games' dynamic, Football is very unpredictable.  

One last point, when Shinnie leaves it's not necessarily goodbye forever, more a case of goodbye for now. Who's to say he won't return to us a few years down the line? It certainly wouldn't be the first time.  



 

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Im pretty annoyed that we have lost another player for nothing. We let that happen too often with our players and it has to stop now!  Mckay is the same nothing for our top scorer really just remarkable how much we are getting shafted

 

Totally agree we get well and truly shafted every time. To me this is really short sightedness and horrendously bad management not protecting your prize assets. If we are to be taken seriously as a top six club this needs to be rectified now by the Chairman and the Board. It is unforgiveable that players like Graeme Shinnie, Don Cowie, Ian Black, Johhny Hayes, Adam Rooney etc can leave for feck all because our Board of Directors cannot manage contracts. How are we really ever going to progress when the rest of the SPFL see us as a soft touch.

 

Unfortunately (?), the days of Jim McLean and 25 year contracts with your first born being sent to sweep his chimney once a week are long gone .... lets face a few facts here ....

 

1. We get gates of 3-4000 on a good day. That does not afford us the luxury of a wage structure that compares with anything other than the lower reaches of the Scottish Premiership. We cannot compete with Celtic, Aberdeen Dundee Utd or even the likes of Hibs or Hearts in the Championship who all have bigger budgets to play with (or to squander or screw up) in part thanks to bigger gates.

 

2. Some of the teams mentioned above (and many others) have been guilty of spending beyond their means and getting into trouble. We did that on a far smaller scale as we climbed the leagues and almost paid the price. For the last 14 or 15 years each of our chairmen and the board members he has around him have ensured we live within our means despite the fact we will typically make a loss on paper each year if we dont get a cup run or more bums on seats. We have been a model of fiscal propriety in the SPL/SPFL and the board should be lauded for that feat not ridiculed.  

 

3. There are two sides to a contract agreement. If a player does not want to sign it then how is that the board's fault? How does that equate to bad management and being unable to protect prize assets? If we lose a player that wanted to stay because we f**** up, then fair enough ... but regardless of the contract we put down in front of some players they are not going to sign it. Shinnie and Mckay are two prime examples. Shinnie said early doors that he was likely moving on ... had we even offered him anything at that point? could we offer him anything? Based on responses in this thread it seems that he may have turned down a more lucrative offer to go to Birmingham and instead signed for Aberdeen. He may get twice what he was getting here but not the 4 times he might have got at Brum. That to me sounds like family may play a bigger part and if - as someone mentioned - he has a baby on the way then being nearer to family may play a huge role in his decision. No board can make an offer to top that ... yet somehow its still the boards fault? get a feckin grip !

 

4. We dont have a Nandos (yet) .... (and many folks will be disappointed when it arrives as its nothing special !!!)

 

 

To the two people I have quoted, please enlighten me ..... how do we make it stop and solve this ridiculously short sighted bad posting management? None of the players mentioned were staying regardless of the contracts we would offer so I would really like to understand what YOUR solution and remedy for this would have been?  ... 2 of the players quoted went to England to "further their careers" before returning to the SPL/SPFL and one sold himself to the highest bidder and then dropped 3 levels to pick up another inflated pay cheque ..... none were staying, none wanted to stay, and none had any intention of coming back to us when their original move did not pan out. 

 

As for Graeme Shinnie. I am torn. He seems like a good lad and I am pretty certain he will do his best for ICT whilst ICT are paying his wages. He has never struck me as one who would "do a Butcher". However, there is a clear conflict of interest given that both ourselves and Aberdeen are vying for as high a finish as we can achieve and a simple surge or dip in form by one team might be the difference between 2nd and 4th or 5th .... and there is a huge drop in bonus payments between 1st & 2nd then 3rd - 6th ...... In all good conscience, I dont see how he can play against Aberdeen yet I also dont see how or why we should allow Aberdeen to gain that advantage .... 

 

 

Pre-contracts really are an abomination and whilst they may be a necessary evil I would like to see UEFA/FIFA BAN them when it involves teams in the same league who are in direct competition with each other. It is not fair on the club(s) concerned nor on the fans who pay to watch the games. 

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The hatred filled posts and general nasty tone has yet again come to the surface when a player (or manager) decides to leave and try something new. Why like in any walk of life do they not have the right to try something new - if anyone on here was to get offered a new job or payrise which they find attractive for career or personal reasons are they not entitled to try it? Also how is signing a pre-contract any different to working several months notice which in professional careers is not uncommon?

 

I for one think GS has been a great servant and I'm sure he will continue to show commitment to our side moving forwards until his contract expires. Perhaps there is a call for the club whether he should feature against the Dons again this season, but I really don't see how his decision deserves some of the posts on here.

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Totally agree we get well and truly shafted every time. To me this is really short sightedness and horrendously bad management not protecting your prize assets. If we are to be taken seriously as a top six club this needs to be rectified now by the Chairman and the Board. It is unforgiveable that players like Graeme Shinnie, Don Cowie, Ian Black, Johhny Hayes, Adam Rooney etc can leave for feck all because our Board of Directors cannot manage contracts.

How are we really ever going to progress when the rest of the SPFL see us as a soft touch.

Not sure whst you expect the board to do? We will quite rightly only offer what we can reasonably afford and I'm confident we offer the best we can. We can't force players to sign and we can't force clubs to buy them mid contact for compensation.

Would you prefer we went into debt to keep some players?

ETA - and what Scotty said. I hadn't got that far down the thread...

Edited by Fraz
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Totally agree we get well and truly shafted every time. To me this is really short sightedness and horrendously bad management not protecting your prize assets. If we are to be taken seriously as a top six club this needs to be rectified now by the Chairman and the Board. It is unforgiveable that players like Graeme Shinnie, Don Cowie, Ian Black, Johhny Hayes, Adam Rooney etc can leave for feck all because our Board of Directors cannot manage contracts.

How are we really ever going to progress when the rest of the SPFL see us as a soft touch.

Not sure whst you expect the board to do? We will quite rightly only offer what we can reasonably afford and I'm confident we offer the best we can. We can't force players to sign and we can't force clubs to buy them mid contact for compensation.

Would you prefer we went into debt to keep some players?

ETA - and what Scotty said. I hadn't got that far down the thread...

 

 

I agree with both of you to a point. I don't know if this is the mentality of the club, and I can see why they do it if this is the case, but I don't want us to be holding off on offering contracts to key players in case we don't know what league we might be in. We all knew that Shinnie, Mckay and others had contracts which were running down. Why not make an earlier start in trying to get them to sign up? Could talks have maybe started sooner than they did? Look at Aberdeen now. They are securing their best players well ahead of their contracts running down. Could we not have offered deals to Meekings, Shinnie and Mckay last summer? Maybe we did who knows. In amongst all this rabble is a simple question of why do we (seemingly) let players contracts wind down and lose them for nothing when a more proactive approach might see them secured so that we at least get some cash if they do move on?

 

EDIT: I totally disagree with Scotty. Nando's is ace :laugh:

Edited by RiG
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To make next to nothing in transfer fees over 20 odd years, is probably not our finest achievement when you see the players who have passed through the club.

Who is Jim Mclean ? I was thinking more of the likes of Gauld, Roberston etc who have moved on after a couple of seasons, seems football can still be a productive business if you put your mind to it.

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Nobody who saw the Hamilton game on Saturday would question his commitment.....

 

Interesting you should mention the Hamilton game.  Entrance was only 10p as a tribute to the service departing manager Alex Neil and his assistant Frankie McAvoy had given to the club.  The vice-chairman was quoted by the BBC as saying "We look forward to welcoming all our loyal supporters, and perhaps some new ones, to send Frankie, and Alex, off with the acclaim they deserve." Clearly they didn't want 2 great servants of their club to leave but they understood the guys wanted to develop their careers.  Rather than being branded as traitors they were lauded for the service given over the years.  I don't suppose any of us want Shinnie to leave, but can we not simply respect his wish to move on and thank him for his superb contribution to our club?

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The issue here is not the fact that the boy has decided to move on and better himself - he's quite within his rights to do so and if our contract offer was not good enough to keep him - that's our fault, for whatever reason! The issue is should Yogi continue to play him? Yogi will make that decision and time will tell if the decision is right or wrong. IMO the club has players (still in contract beyond this season) who don't get much game time- players who will never improve without it so should we not be giving them a chance instead of playing someone we won't have next season?  

Edited by caleyboy
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I have absolute no problem with players leaving (whether they should play or not is another argument and I think it depends on the circumstances).  Players are always going to leave and their reasons are their own.  We aren't always in a position to keep everyone we'd like to and but even when we have lost major players in the past, we've always managed to replace them.  Hayes for example was a great player for us, but did we really miss him when he went?  Not particularly.

 

What I do take umbrage with is the way Aberdeen and previously Shinnie's agent have conducted themselves.  Announcing these things mid-season, while he's still contracted to ICT, I think is very disrespectful.  It looks to me like Shinnie's intention has been to go to Aberdeen for quite some time.  What was to stop an agreement between Shinnie, his agent and Aberdeen from not announcing anything until the season was over?  This is an attempt to unsettle us big time.  

 

But why?  I'll you why:  they fear us massively.  Granted they are doing fairly well but they're only a point ahead of us.  People can say "We're punching above our weight" and maybe to a degree that is true, but really Aberdeen are still, as they have been for years, underachieving yet again.  They've got far more fans, a bigger catchment area, a far bigger name and are going to be far more appetising to sponsors and players than we are, yet they're only a point ahead, when really they should be miles ahead of everyone else in the Premiership bar Celtic and Dundee United.  People can fawn over them as much as they like, but behaviour like this (and they did the same with Hayes), says it all.  They're far more afraid of us, than we are of them.

Edited by Renegade
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Nobody who saw the Hamilton game on Saturday would question his commitment.....

 

Interesting you should mention the Hamilton game.  Entrance was only 10p as a tribute to the service departing manager Alex Neil and his assistant Frankie McAvoy had given to the club.  The vice-chairman was quoted by the BBC as saying "We look forward to welcoming all our loyal supporters, and perhaps some new ones, to send Frankie, and Alex, off with the acclaim they deserve." Clearly they didn't want 2 great servants of their club to leave but they understood the guys wanted to develop their careers.  Rather than being branded as traitors they were lauded for the service given over the years. 

 

Yes BUT Hamilton would not have taken that approach if the move was to Motherwell rather than Norwich, no way.  It's also easy for a club to be gracious (and generous) when receiving a very hefty sum of compensation.

Edited by Yngwie
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Nobody who saw the Hamilton game on Saturday would question his commitment.....

 

And not just Saturday.  Shinnie decided several months ago that he would be moving on, and has probably known for a good few weeks (at least) that Aberdeen was his preferred destination.  One of our very best and most consistent players throughout that timeframe.

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I'm glad its been announced earlier rather than later. The Hayes situation a few seasons back was an absolute farce.

It's not an ideal situation granted but it could have been a lot worse.

 

An announcement could've been made that Shinnie would leave the club at the end of the season.  When that came was the time to make an announcement over which team it was.  I seem to recollect Peter Schmeichel doing something like that at Man United.

 

As you say, the Hayes thing was a circus and disrespectful on his part, using his Twitter page to play games with the ICT fans.  "I've not signed for anyone" was something I recollect him saying, before three or four announcements that he would announce his future that day, before radio silence.  A complete mess and another good reason why it's maybe time to look at doing away with pre-contract agreements, which I believe aren't even legally binding. 

Edited by Renegade
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