Matchday Thread Dundee Utd -V- Inverness CT

[gordieict]

 

Again Board no conviction too scared to give decent contracts to all players so we lose players and do NOT replace them

There have been a few fairly daft and unrealistic comments on here since full time tonight but this one really must take the biscuit for its utterly crass cluelessness.

In a sentence, there are some people complaining that a club with a turnover of less than £4 million (which would fund just over 34 minutes of the EPL on Sky/BT) but is still now enterting a third month unbeaten in all competitions, isn't consistently churning out victory after victory in the upper reaches of the SPFL Premiership against rivals with player budgets often several times as large.

Does Brian have the remotest scooby about the board's strategy to fund a team which is now heading for its third season in the top six on gross revenues of less than £4 million derived from crowds which fail to hit 3000 with alarming frequency? Clearly Brian does not.

I am fairly sure Brian is not suggesting that we sign RVP or Harry Kane but a lower league striker with a bit of experience , the fact that we have a couple on trail now means we intend to sign one , why now one month after Billy left when it was fairly obvious that he would be leaving.

As Kingsmills said we are the only side in the league without a recognised striker, yes the club are doing brilliantly on the the field but it's a very fine line , look at Motherwell flying high for seasons and now facing relegation if we don't replace players we lose we could head the same way.

As you seem to know more about the boards strategy than most , what is is, lose our players and not replace them ?

Edited February 25, 2015 by gordieict

[gordieict]

One thing Butcher did very well was find players (or his staff did ) in the lower leagues and came up with some real gems , as yet Yogi has not made a signing of note and as we lose players that is a worry

[Naelifts]

  Dundee Utd 1

  ICT 1

  Composure 0

 

  Sour grapes from Tansey?  Ref did have one of those nights but , given how the match started, we should have put it to bed. Credit to Dundee Utd. I thought they played really well. Not a disaster by any means but games like that will take their toll.............in tiredness, injuries and disciplinary points. Onwards and upwards. Mre Naelifts makes her seasonal debut at 'Well. She is renowned for attending 0 0 matches ....................but I have promised her that won't happen this time

 

Good crowd tonight

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

Worrying - Sneckboy where are we up to with suspensions ?

That's Watkins with 6 league cautions now, so he's due a one-game suspension. But, usually players in that situation are free for the next match and the ban 'kicks in' for the following game. So, I think he'll be okay for Motherwell and the Cup game v Raith, but will miss the Partick Thistle away fixture.

But Warren, it seems got a straight red - which means he'll certainly miss the next game. Depending on what the referees report states as the reason for his dismissal, he could get an immediate 2 game (all competition) ban - meaning he'd miss Motherwell and then the cup tie.

Won't know for sure until the SFA disciplinary weekly report comes out on Friday!

 

While I'm on here, that was our first score-draw, away from home, under Hughes. (in his 27th league game with us on the road!)

Isn't the two game ban thing the next game and then the next game in that competition? If so warren would be available for the Raith game and miss the Partick league match.

[Sneckboy]

You may very well be right. Normally, cards are exclusive to each competition, but I've seen suspensions across all competitions before - when the red-card has been for 'violent conduct'. But, I really don't know. Fortunately, we won't have too long to wait to find out. The SFA produce a weekly update on suspensions on Fridays (occasionally Thursdays). http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football_document_libraries.cfm?page=2567

 

Update:

I've just had a look at that list and (even before last night) Marley Watkins is now due a one game ban!

That confuses me as he had been on only 5 bookings before the Dundee United game and I assumed that his caution yesterday was his 6th and the one that triggered the ban. I'm certain it's 6 yellow cards before a suspension. Perhaps there's a 'carry over' from last season or something!

 

SPFL – PREMIERSHIP

14/02/2015 MARLEY JOSEPH WATKINS (INVERNESS CT F.C.) 1 FIRST TEAM MATCH FROM 28/02/2015 

 

There's even a bit of ambiguity there, as when does 'from' 28th Feb actually start. The 28th is the date of our Motherwell game on Saturday. I'm guessing it starts after that - but is only for SPFL games. So, I'll speculate that Marley will miss the Partick Thistle away match!

Confusing, but there's not a great deal of transparency around the disciplinary process!

So, in essence, the booking he got last night hasn't tipped him over the threshold, as it appears he was already there.

[Eagle4Caley]

Sounds like one of those crazy nights! I would have taken a draw away to Dundee Utd on a Tuesday night before the kick off... it may seem surprising that we couldn't make the man advantage play to our advantage, but this often happens, the other side keeps it tight, the ref helped by booking nearly all of our defence early on, and we don't have a conventional attack.....once Watkins runs out of puff, we become somewhat ineffective going forward. Annoying that Utd got the equaliser, but the Warren sending off is possibly more damaging.

I understand people are keen on the European spot, but not sure we have a squad to get past the 1st qualfying round which would be played quite early in July, probably against some god-forsaken Eastern European side that no one has ever heard of, or wants to go to.

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

It's not the number of cautions, I think. Each caution attracts a number of points, and you get suspended when you pass a threshold.

I thought that cautions were 1 or 2 points and you got suspended at 12 points (most cautions are 2 points) so 6 bookings usually sees you banned, but if Marley was banned after 5 maybe they have changed the rules again.

You used to be able to get all this stuff off the sfa website, but I'm darned if I can find it now. So much for transparency!

[Kingsmills]

If we had had a viable contingency plan to replace Billy there is every chance that we would be battling it out with the Dons for second place and the kudos, extra place money and starting a round later in Europe that goes with it rather than trying to fend off United to stay in third.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, difficult to be too critical this season but nevertheless disappointing.

[old caley girl]

If we had had a viable contingency plan to replace Billy there is every chance that we would be battling it out with the Dons for second place and the kudos, extra place money and starting a round later in Europe that goes with it rather than trying to fend off United to stay in third.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, difficult to be too critical this season but nevertheless disappointing.

Don't know if anyone else heard it but on radio before game Yogi said we'd tried to bring in players after Christmas but couldn't manage on the money available. Assume he meant wages??

[Sneckboy]

Full time: 1-1 so tbh its a point gained imho :-).

Think its time to get passports out :-). United have another game in hand which is against Aberdeen (I think?) so they'd need to BEAT us TWICE to have a chance.

Tbh though, wherever we end up, it'll still have been some season for us .

Hughes MUST get manager of the season!!

Yes, he certainly should get the award!

Actually, there's two awards. One voted for by the media/journalists (Scottish Football Writers' Association) and the other by the actual folk involved in the game (Professional Footballers' Association).

 

Often, different managers win the respective awards. But sometimes a manager takes them both in the same season!

Walter Smith (Rangers) got them both, as did Gordon Strachan at Celtic and last season Derek McInnes scooped them both.

 

Hughes must be in with a chance! Although the Dons are doing well, McInnes was recognised last season as Aberdeen picked up silverware for the first time in a generation! But, you never know, if he can secure runners-up spot with Aberdeen in the league, he may just turn a few heads as it'll be their best finish in 20 years.

But also, if Ronny can deliver the treble for Celtic, it'll be no contest, unfortunately.

 

If you asked the average football fan how many managers in Celtic's long history have won 'the treble' most would be surprised that it's only actually 2!

The great Jock Stein and then only Martin O'Neill have achieved it. So a Ronny Deila 'treble' would likely see him take both awards - well, certainly the Glasgow media one!

But what Hughes has achieved, in my book, with budget constraints etc, is relatively a better achievement!

[PerfICT]

Did Warren get a yellow and then a straight red or 2 yellows? Sounds like Cifci was up to his usual tricks - wound Watkins and Warren up - shame Foran wasn't there: he usually is the match for Cifci!

[Sneckboy]

Did Warren get a yellow and then a straight red or 2 yellows? Sounds like Cifci was up to his usual tricks - wound Watkins and Warren up - shame Foran wasn't there: he usually is the match for Cifci!

I've looked at a few media outlets and they appear to have different takes on it! Some have him as 'just' being sent-off (2 yellows), but others have him as booked then also receiving a straight red! (1 yellow, 1 red).

[old caley girl]

Did Warren get a yellow and then a straight red or 2 yellows? Sounds like Cifci was up to his usual tricks - wound Watkins and Warren up - shame Foran wasn't there: he usually is the match for Cifci!

I've looked at a few media outlets and they appear to have different takes on it! Some have him as 'just' being sent-off (2 yellows), but others have him as booked then also receiving a straight red! (1 yellow, 1 red).

It was defo a straight red at the sending off. He was booked earlier but no second yellow is shown. Yogi said on radio was violent conduct. Watched clip over and over again and I'm still none the wiser what he did tbh. At the game was watching and protesting the rugby tackle on Draper clearly seen at start of the clip of the incident!

Edited February 25, 2015 by old caley girl

[Kingsmills]

 

If we had had a viable contingency plan to replace Billy there is every chance that we would be battling it out with the Dons for second place and the kudos, extra place money and starting a round later in Europe that goes with it rather than trying to fend off United to stay in third.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, difficult to be too critical this season but nevertheless disappointing.

Don't know if anyone else heard it but on radio before game Yogi said we'd tried to bring in players after Christmas but couldn't manage on the money available. Assume he meant wages??

 

 

That would not be a great surprise given our limited finances and I am sure the vast majority of fans would have been accepting if the chairman had said when Billy left something along the lines of we will try our best but will struggle to replace him on the money available rather than the very definite 'we have contingency plans' when that turned out not to be the case.

[+DoofersDad]

 

FT 1 -1   Was this a Calum Murray power mad show or were the cards deserved?

The later apart from Watkins one imo

 

By that do you mean he shouldn't have been booked or that it should have been a straight red?  On the radio there was immediate shock from the commentary team at what they described as a two footed lunge.  The immedate comments was that it must be a red card and that he will be off.  They were then very surprised at it being only a yellow, particularly with the ref being so close.  One of the team described it as a shocking challenge.  Interestingly, later in the commentary they made mention of Raven being a very lucky boy not to have picked up a second yellow early in the second half but they didn't mention Marley.  Perhpas they had seen a replay and realised their initial impression was wrong.   Don't know if this will be picked up on in the "highlights" but how did you see the incident?

[ICTRoughi]

If we had had a viable contingency plan to replace Billy there is every chance that we would be battling it out with the Dons for second place and the kudos, extra place money and starting a round later in Europe that goes with it rather than trying to fend off United to stay in third.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, difficult to be too critical this season but nevertheless disappointing.

Don't know if anyone else heard it but on radio before game Yogi said we'd tried to bring in players after Christmas but couldn't manage on the money available. Assume he meant wages??

 

That would not be a great surprise given our limited finances and I am sure the vast majority of fans would have been accepting if the chairman had said when Billy left something along the lines of we will try our best but will struggle to replace him on the money available rather than the very definite 'we have contingency plans' when that turned out not to be the case.

I'm almost certain the contingency plan was always going to be sticking Marley Watkins up front given the amount of goals he scored when Billy left.

[Alex MacLeod]

One thing Butcher did very well was find players (or his staff did ) in the lower leagues and came up with some real gems , as yet Yogi has not made a signing of note and as we lose players that is a worry

Its all very well finding players but finding players that;ll fit into our system and budget is probably a different proposition. If the right person isavailable then get him on the books. If he's not then do the best with what we have. Under other managers we had a habit of paying wages forpeople who didn't have what we needed. Lets steer clear of doing that again.

 

As to the game, I've only the press reports and twitter comments to go on but it seems like the ref has a lot to answer for as to how the game panned out. First yellow in forty seconds. Red within five minutes. The ref lost the plot and this seems to have affected the players composure. Still we can hold our heads high though. We are still in the mix with Aberdeen and Celtic, though I think the latter will start to expand their lead, and with eleven games to go we can stay where we are at least and move up to second at best.

 

At times its frustrating but this has to go down as our best ever season and we still have a very real chance of THE cup.

[+DoofersDad]

 

 

If we had had a viable contingency plan to replace Billy there is every chance that we would be battling it out with the Dons for second place and the kudos, extra place money and starting a round later in Europe that goes with it rather than trying to fend off United to stay in third.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, difficult to be too critical this season but nevertheless disappointing.

Don't know if anyone else heard it but on radio before game Yogi said we'd tried to bring in players after Christmas but couldn't manage on the money available. Assume he meant wages??

 

 

That would not be a great surprise given our limited finances and I am sure the vast majority of fans would have been accepting if the chairman had said when Billy left something along the lines of we will try our best but will struggle to replace him on the money available rather than the very definite 'we have contingency plans' when that turned out not to be the case.

 

The Board's in a no win position here.  They need to attract potential players and then persuade them that the benefits of being here are worth signing a contract even if the money is not as good as the player was hoping for.  If the Chairman states that it will be a struggle on the money available, potential players won't bother to look at us in the first place.  Rather than stretch the budget to bring in someone new, the priority must be to secure contracts of players who have not re-signed.  From the BBC match stats, the problem yesterday was not so much in converting chances as in creating them.  Only 7 shots at goal against 10 men is not good.  Yesterday was a team problem and not a lack of a striker problem.

[forresjags]

Possibly there is a case to look at the lower leagues in Scotland or or maybe find a hidden gem in the Highland League.  Appreciate it is a massive step up but surely worth a gamble with minimal outlay. 

Other clubs have been successful taking this approach particularly, although I hate to say it  Macnamara.

[sheepslagger]

Still trying to work out why Warren was sent off . Been told it was for an elbow on Shuftie but I didnt see it. I did see them putting there foreheads together but surely united player was as guilty as Warren.

 

Still disappointed with the result. We could and should have put that game to bed by half time. Treated it like a training game anfter we went one nil up. United just got more and more confident as the time went on. Dropped points tonight and did not cover ourselves in glory . 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well this thread has got quite a few topics.

1 - I suspect that most of us would have taken 1-1 before the game. It has always proved difficult to play against 10 men and the 11 are on a hiding to nothing. The Arabs simply could not afford to lose and that must have spurred them on. 7 shots at Tannadice usually suffices.

2 - It sounds like the ref put his mark on the game in the first minute - a time where most refs allow most challenges to go with a bollicking or was it a really bad one. He then produces a red 4 minutes later and he has no option but to tread the same path throughout and that often leads to evening things out.

3 - the tackle timings of Raven and Warren have been suspect for weeks. Those two plus Draper have been too erratic recently. Marley has probably suffered from being the hard working lone striker and his tackling is as suspect as the aforementioned three. It is difficult for Warren when he is faced with the likes of McGennis and Shifti but that is when centre halves have to be sly and clever.

4 - look at the bench last night and that shows our squad cover - you can't prepare for injuries but suspensions could implode our season. On our day we are as good as any team in Scotland. We have the best chance ever of THE best season ever. Playing the same 11 every week drains us. Let's hope that we have enuff in the tank to get to the end of the glory road.

5 - As I have alluded to before we were clearly not expecting wee Billy to go and Wigan came in at the last minute due to the money they got late in the window. How come we found three trialists now. We could have looked at what spondoolachs we had IF Billy went and planned for a more able deputy OR squad cover.

[Guest]

Can't really blame Warren too much when he's faced with this sort of provocation. I'd have got up and chinned him too because I'm #mental.

 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

When you are faced with that type of provocation you do NOT go head to head.

[gordieict]

 

One thing Butcher did very well was find players (or his staff did ) in the lower leagues and came up with some real gems , as yet Yogi has not made a signing of note and as we lose players that is a worry

Its all very well finding players but finding players that;ll fit into our system and budget is probably a different proposition. If the right person isavailable then get him on the books. If he's not then do the best with what we have. Under other managers we had a habit of paying wages forpeople who didn't have what we needed. Lets steer clear of doing that again.

 

 

Yes agree Alex but I think that is what Butcher did well , finding players that fitted in and were within budget, our current squad is most made up of these type of players that he found 

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

So Warren got flattened, went head to head with Ciftci and only Warren got sent off?

Anyone would think Scottish officials were shight.