Matchday Thread Dundee Utd -V- Inverness CT

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

So Warren got flattened, went head to head with Ciftci and only Warren got sent off?

Anyone would think Scottish officials were shight.

 

Maybe so and it looks like both should have been sent packing. But this is where the thought of "Keep the Head", smile and walk away comes in to play. Not easy to do for most but should be the instinct of a professional footballer playing for a team in great need of discipline, example and togetherness.

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

 

So Warren got flattened, went head to head with Ciftci and only Warren got sent off?

Anyone would think Scottish officials were shight.

 

Maybe so and it looks like both should have been sent packing. But this is where the thought of "Keep the Head", smile and walk away comes in to play. Not easy to do for most but should be the instinct of a professional footballer playing for a team in great need of discipline, example and togetherness.

 

 I agree, but often easier to say than do.

 

Having said that, if one of the green erse-cheeks goes right through Ciftci during one of their games, I won't be too upset.

[hislopsoffsideagain]

Sounds to me like a few of the players are running on empty.  It's not a surprise, given that we've used fewer players than any other Premiership team this season.  That's four games in a row in which our second half performance has been poor, and I bet it's because they're tired.  Trouble is, we really are short of options right now, and with Warren and Watkins suspended for Saturday we're going to be even shorter.  Doesn't sound like Doran and Foran are coming back any time soon, and the situation with Devine and Vincent is unclear.  But, barring Tremarco, I wouldn't have trusted any of the subs on our bench last night.

 

If there is a silver lining, it also sounds like United are struggling at the moment too. And we're the ones who are 7 points ahead in the table.

 

After Saturday, the fixtures stop coming as thick and fast for a bit - Raith on the 7th in the cup, then only one game in the next four weeks after that.  That should give the guys a bit of rest.  And it's a rest they've earned.

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

Not sure if it is the players running on empty or whether teams are changing their tactics at half time and we aren't reacting.

[Row S]

 

So Warren got flattened, went head to head with Ciftci and only Warren got sent off?

Anyone would think Scottish officials were shight.

 

Maybe so and it looks like both should have been sent packing. But this is where the thought of "Keep the Head", smile and walk away comes in to play. Not easy to do for most but should be the instinct of a professional footballer playing for a team in great need of discipline, example and togetherness.

 

 

Surely one for the compliance officer to look at closely. From that clip it was clear that Ciftci pole-axed Warren with a forearm smash to the back of the head.   

[+DoofersDad]

That's not a foul by Ciftci, that's assault.  Given the action elsewhere on the park one can understand how the officials only saw Warren's reaction and therefore you cannot fault them for sending Warren off but not Ciftci.  What the authorities do is perhaps another matter.  It is the sort of behaviour which should result in a very lengthy ban indeed.

[cif73]

Did Warren get a yellow and then a straight red or 2 yellows? Sounds like Cifci was up to his usual tricks - wound Watkins and Warren up - shame Foran wasn't there: he usually is the match for Cifci!

 

Cifti did more than that ... if you look at the SPL highlights available now on youtube, what led to the sending off was Warren's reaction to Cifci clambering all over him and leading the elbow ... Cifti arguably should have walked himself ... but it's our player that gets the red card and suspension :(

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

But SPFL clearly also shows that Raven should have got a second yellow as well - but how did the ref miss the blatant Shift push on Shinnie in the first half. A clear yellow. And if Marley had left is leg in instead of hurdling there would have been two Arab keepers dismissed.

[sheepslagger]

I was behind the goal and I just could not understand why if one got sent off the other one didnt?? 

 

It was a head to head thing and if the ref thought Warren had fouled him or elbowed him as the Arabs were shouting about they should have had a penalty. he didnt and it wasnt so why the f88k did Warren get sent off for doing exactly what the DAB did and worse ??

 

I m lost. Please enlighten me please !!

 

And I m living in DAB land, so its no pleasant.

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

The reason that only Warren got sent off is that the officials followed the old Scottish refereeing adage:

Monkey see, Monkey do nothing.

[PerfICT]

Can't really blame Warren too much when he's faced with this sort of provocation. I'd have got up and chinned him too because I'm #mental.

 

 

That's a horror from Cifci - he'd better get cited for that. I suspect it was difficult for the officials to see because the action was elsewhere (and another foul and flashpoint). Hopefully a ban for Cifci - he's always a danger for them.....in more ways than one!

[us2]

I bloody hate ciftci. after seeing the footage he has to be charged with violent conduct leading with your elbow into the back of warren's head he knew what he was doing. Watkins was lucky to be on the pitch after his tackle. stupid, late, dangerous. We definitely need some support up front or we will miss out on Europe if we had a finisher we would have been comfortable but as a result its 2 points dropped and 4 from last two games if (and I highly doubt it) those dropped points cost us a place in Europe then I will be very disappointed. 

[Renegade]

 

Dunno why you're all so angry about the ref, according to the The Sun he had a cracking game! 

 

Seriously though, that'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

[old caley girl]

 

Dunno why you're all so angry about the ref, according to the The Sun he had a cracking game! 

 

Seriously though, that'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Seriously speechless! You know me that doesn't happen often.....lol

[caley100]

Its a well known fact that Sun reporters don't go to games, they just make up rough stories in the pub.

[Charles Bannerman]

I am fairly sure Brian is not suggesting that we sign RVP or Harry Kane but a lower league striker with a bit of experience , the fact that we have a couple on trail now means we intend to sign one , why now one month after Billy left when it was fairly obvious that he would be leaving.

 

Brian's comment was this:-

 

"Again Board no conviction too scared to give decent contracts to all players so we lose players and do NOT replace them" This breaks down into three sections.

 

Again Board no conviction - given the number of interpretations this could create, it's actually quite difficult to know what it's meant to mean. But if Brian means that he is not convinced by the Board then perhaps he should have elaborated. However in the context of what he seems to be saying, might he actually (but misguidedly) have meant to use the word "commitment" rather than "conviction"?

too scared to give decent contracts to all players so we lose players - Brian seems to think that the solution to the problem of losing players is simply the macho, gung ho policy of offering sufficiently lucrative contracts to make them stay. He doesn't appear to grasp the financial realities of such a strategy, given ICT's very limited income streams, nor the consequences of attempting to match the kind of arrangements which the likes of Aberdeen and Wigan are in a position to offer. Perhaps a study of the lower leagues would help illustrate the consequences of clubs living beyond their means.

and do NOT replace them - this is the issue which is being talked about most. The manager emphasised that he would only want to spend money on a player who could come straight into contention for a meaningful place and would not buy for the sake of doing so. With the kind of money available, it would not surprise me to learn that such a player did not materialise in the short window time involved. Clearly none of us knows the detailed current financial situation, but what we do know is that for the last several years, ICT has had to rely on one-off windfalls such as selling the Social Club, share investments and cup runs to keep its head above water. Consequently the Mckay transfer fee and the consequent saving of wages may well be a vital element in efforts to ensure ongoing solvency. The following three questions (with their answers) are also relevant.

 

Do the board and manager need to take extra action to:-

* avoid the catastrophe of relegation? (Obviously not)

* ensure a top six finish? (Very probably not.)

* expose the club to financial losses, as St Johnstone and Motherwell reportedly have sustained in the recent past, as a result of becoming obliged to play in Europe? (I would suggest they do not.)

 

I obviously have no detailed personal knowledge of the Board's deliberations. But given the poor financial reputation that a limited European run has acquired and the consequences for the close season, it is not entirely inconceivable that the optimum area of the league to finish may be 4th - 6th (ideally 4th) where the only down side of missing the top 3 is the loss of the somewhat modest marginal SPFL prize money.

Two things I do know, though. There is only a very narrow financial route which allows a club with ICT's income streams to stay in the Premiership at all. And historically from before day 1, ICT has been phenomenally successful in passing through various marginally navigable channels so has plenty of experience of that.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Charles Bannerman

[Guest Shaun]

In managers section of P and J match report on Monday from weekends game there is a quote from Hughes (final paragraph from article) saying that "hopefully 1/2 will be signed by next week"

So that means 1/2 from Rajcomar/Vukanovic/Kink may be signed up.

Maybe John now realises that a Striker is a must and has spoken to board to try to get that to happen.

Thoughts?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

May well be, might be. TOSH. If there was a contingency plan it would have been mentioned by now and probably using ver much the same verbosity.

[Yngwie]

 

Surely one for the compliance officer to look at closely. From that clip it was clear that Ciftci pole-axed Warren with a forearm smash to the back of the head.   

 

 

I might be wrong but is there not some stupid rule whereby if the officials dealt with an incident at the time (2 players clashed and cards were issued) then nothing can be done restrospectively, even if the officials got it wrong?

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Dunno why you're all so angry about the ref, according to the The Sun he had a cracking game!

Seriously though, that'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Pure Viz classic :-)

[PerfICT]

Surely one for the compliance officer to look at closely. From that clip it was clear that Ciftci pole-axed Warren with a forearm smash to the back of the head.

 

I might be wrong but is there not some stupid rule whereby if the officials dealt with an incident at the time (2 players clashed and cards were issued) then nothing can be done restrospectively, even if the officials got it wrong?

Surely one for the compliance officer to look at closely. From that clip it was clear that Ciftci pole-axed Warren with a forearm smash to the back of the head.

 

I might be wrong but is there not some stupid rule whereby if the officials dealt with an incident at the time (2 players clashed and cards were issued) then nothing can be done restrospectively, even if the officials got it wrong?

I doubt the initial incident was seen - presumably Cifci's yellow was also to do with the afters. If so, I'm sure he can still be dealt with retrospectively...but will he be?

[johnh]

In managers section of P and J match report on Monday from weekends game there is a quote from Hughes (final paragraph from article) saying that "hopefully 1/2 will be signed by next week"

So that means 1/2 from Rajcomar/Vukanovic/Kink may be signed up.

Maybe John now realises that a Striker is a must and has spoken to board to try to get that to happen.

Thoughts?

Maybe what Yogi means is that after a long look at the players, on and off the pitch, 1 or 2 may fit into our squad both in terms of talent and getting on with the rest of the squad.

[johnh]

 

Dunno why you're all so angry about the ref, according to the The Sun he had a cracking game!

Seriously though, that'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Pure Viz classic :-)

 

My wife is from Liverpool and will have nothing to do with the Sun. This illustrates why.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

There were two dangerous incidents involving Cifti - neither involved him grabbing the linesman by the throat as we  clearly saw in Inverness (it was right in front of me) and for which he got off amazingly lightly.

 

The first where he blatantly shoves Shinnie into Meekings. That had real potential for injury and went unpunished.

 

The second is clearly leading with the elbow on Warren.

[davie]

Believe it or not, I'm only just home from this so I've had time to think about it and discuss it with my arab mates through gritted teeth. Calum Murray lost control of the game quite early on but got seriously caught up in things in the second half. Such was his lack of control that someone could easily have been seriously injured such was the level of challenge that was escalating throughout. Greg Tansey was right - it was a fight, not a game of football and we shouldn't have got drawn into it far less match up in the way taht we did. It was a gluepot of a pitch that lent it's self to that type of game - you couldn't pass a ball on that pitch. we didn't neither did they. As the team seven points behind us they had to fight and they did. Their goal came as a result of a bobbling ball in the box and it was diifficult to create clean cut chances for either side. A draw was a fair result, and maintained the status quo (i.e. we are better than them by virtue of winning more points) to this point. So where is the vast problem that has led to some of the utter cr*p above? We have no right (and neither does any other team) to turn up anywhere and expect the three points, never mind a venue as difficult as tannadice. it was a hard fought draw on the way to where we want to finish, and that point might be the crucial one that gets us into europe as much as it might be the one that denies us the chance.