The General Election 2015 Thread

[Oddquine 380]

Good blog article and well worth a read...........the view of an Englishwoman in Scotland............bolding mine.

 

https://imnotawriterbut.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/mad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know/

 

A quote.............

She [Nicola Sturgeon] is, however,  dangerous for David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband. There are Labour MPs in Scotland who felt they were entitled to expect the support of the people in their constituencies for as long as they wanted it and Nicola Sturgeon with her high approval ratings is a danger to them. The SNP is  dangerous to those politicians who have forgotten that they are the voice of the people they represent and therefore think it’s ok to suggest that Scotland’s voters should just shut up and have no say in the politics of the UK.

 

And the last paragraph......

The batshit crazy papers, the pasty faced, exhausted politicians, the titled privileged elite are not really scared for the future of the UK, they aren’t scared of the “hard left” SNP that doesn’t actually exist, they aren’t scared of 105 000 rabid, foaming at the mouth bravehearts because they don’t exist either, they aren’t scared of the SNP’s policies on the economy; or Nicola Sturgeon, or even their favourite bogeyman Alex Salmond they are my friends, scared of you, of us. They are scared of a politically aware and engaged electorate. And you know what? That’s a good thing.

[Oddquine 380]

And if any of you are still in reading mode............try this http://peterabell.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/england-beware.html?spref=tw&m=1

 

Last part...........

 Britain is an edifice. All nations are political constructs. Britain is a political contrivance. It is a structure of power, privilege and patronage.

It is, moreover, a structure designed (or evolved), not to withstand challenge, but to prevent it. The two-party duopoly of the British political system, with its faux rivalries barely concealing a common agenda, represents the very epitome of entrenched power. So much so that, on the kind of close examination which is actively discouraged, the British state more closely resembles a one-party state than a functioning democracy.

Entrenched power defends itself primarily by making meaningful reform all but impossible. The more entrenched it becomes; the more successful it is in building barriers to change; the more its capacity to defend itself by the normal democratic means of persuasion atrophies.

Thus, entrenched power will ultimately resort to the extraordinary strategy of demonising those categorised as "the enemy" in order to justify "amendments" to the rules and procedures which effectively deny reforming influences access to political power. And that is what is happening in the case of the SNP. In response to the challenge of democratic dissent, the British state is in the process of instituting a form of "managed democracy" which ensures that only political parties approved by the ruling elites can participate fully and on an equal footing in the parliamentary process.

The people of England should take heed. Because entrenched power will defend itself against the threat of change wherever that threat comes from. Let no-one in the rest of the UK be under any illusions that the orchestrated onslaught on the SNP is specific to that party. Any progressive movement that might gather significant momentum in England will surely be subject to the same treatment. And the measures implemented to combat the "threat" posed by the SNP will be all the more readily deployed to thwart a democratic challenge to entrenched power wherever this might arise.

[Charles Bannerman 989]

 

 

Thus, entrenched power will ultimately resort to the extraordinary strategy of demonising those categorised as "the enemy" in order to justify "amendments" to the rules and procedures

You mean like the SNP demonising the Tories and the English (aka Westminster) in order to justify separation?

Edited April 27, 2015 by Charles Bannerman

[dougiedanger 452]

Great pieces there OQ and Alex.  The comfort and security that the current set-up apparently offers is an illusion to keep the unthinking people in their place and the elite in their positions of power. One day, whatever happens to the 'UK', the people will be grateful for the changes that started with the 2014 referendum.

[Oddquine 380]

 

 

 

Thus, entrenched power will ultimately resort to the extraordinary strategy of demonising those categorised as "the enemy" in order to justify "amendments" to the rules and procedures

You mean like the SNP demonising the Tories and the English (aka Westminster) in order to justify separation?

 

Stop talking balderdash, Charles, please. All your one-liners which sneer but say nothing cogent are getting wearing. Or alternatively, produce some links to examples of  anti-English statements in the media by Nicola Sturgeon Alex Salmond and any other SNP  MP/MSP to rival the utter poisonous paranoia being produced by the  Westminster controlled Unionist politicians and the media atm. I am more than happy to compare notes as to nastiness. .

[+IBM 1,388]

Not reading all that, but the last bit stood out for its unintentional irony, when every unionist on here posts obsessively about the 'Nats', the 'separatists', and mein feckin' Banff. 

 

"And why on Earth does Cameron get so obsessed about the SNP?  Perhaps it is his guilt about how close he was to being responsible for the break up of the Union - but if so, he has learnt nothing.  Why can't he learn about being a bit more positive? 

 

Poor David Cameron is running about like a headless chicken so worried about the SNP gaining seats he cant remember what football team he supports

[dougiedanger 452]

It's odd that if the SNP are so anti-English that one of the most searched items on Google recently is "Can I vote for the SNP if I live in England?"

 

Surely, these sassenach cyber nat separatists have not heard of our inveterate hatred of all things English, or read Mein feckin Banff.

 

Or maybe, the real division in these islands is only now starting to emerge--between those in fatal thrall to the outdated system and social structure, and those who believe that positive change is actually possible, desirable and achievable.

 

Mon the English cyber nat separatists!

[DoofersDad 4,102]

Nicola Sturgeons manifesto launch statement:-

 

At this election, we have the opportunity to shake up the out of touch Westminster system so that it serves Scotland better.

A vote for the SNP on May 7th is a vote for MPs who will always stand up for Scotland's best interests. It is a vote to make Scotland's voice heard at Westminster more loudly than it has ever been heard before. And it is a vote for more progressive politics.

The SNP will use our influence at Westminster to help deliver positive change for the benefit of ordinary people, not just in Scotland, but across the UK.

We propose a real alternative to the pain of austerity, an end to unfair policies like the Bedroom Tax, a higher minimum wage and protection for our NHS and vital public services. Instead of even deeper Westminster spending cuts, we want to see more investment in our economy, to create more and better paid jobs. And we want the precious resources of our country to be invested in building a better future for our children, not on a  and the statements after the new generation of nuclear weapons.

The SNP will never put the Tories into power.

Instead, if there is an anti-Tory majority after the election, we will offer to work with other parties to keep the Tories out. And we will then use our influence to demand that Labour delivers the real change that people want and need - instead of just being a carbon copy of the Tories.

A vote for the SNP will make Scotland's voice heard - loudly and clearly. And it will help deliver new, better and more progressive politics at Westminster for everyone.

My vow is to make Scotland stronger at Westminster. With your support, we can secure a better future for you, your family and Scotland.

 

I see nothing in that statement that makes SNP dishonest, hypocritical, controlling, manipulative and opportunistic. Nor is there anything in the manifesto to suggest they are looking at another referendum in the near future. The pledge from conference and the statements after the referendum suggested that particular subject was being put to bed for the time being and that improving the way Scotland is seen by and treated by Westminster takes priority. Uk needs left of centre politics for true governance and the SNP are the only party that can open the eyes of the current crop of blue labour.

The independence question is brought up now by everyone other than SNP. I believe one of the reasons for this is to deflect attention away from the possibility of an early referendum on EU membership. A membership that has been very good for rural Scotland and for trade in general.

 

I think you make my point for me, Alex.  What the SNP say can sound superficially attractive but become hollow on inspection and actions speak louder than words For instance, it is highly arrogant and provocative to suggest that they will work for positive change across the UK helping to protect services like the NHS.  Remember, health is a devolved matter and the coalition government has invested more heavily into the NHS in England than the SNP have in Scotland. 

 

Other parties are correct to bring up the independence issue just to remind the voters of the true nature of the SNP.  To suggest they are doing this to deflect attention from the possibility of an EU referendum is frankly absurd.  Most people are pretty comfortable with the idea of a referendum and many share my view that whilst I am in favour of staying in the EU, it is perfectly reasonable to have a referendum now given the significant changes in the EU in the 40 years since the last referendum.  This is in stark contrast to the SNP who claim they accept the result of last year's independence referendum but yet by their actions make it quite clear that they do not accept it.  Anyone who thinks the priority of SNP MPs at Westminster is to work for the good of the UK and not for independence is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[DoofersDad 4,102]

 

Not reading all that, but the last bit stood out for its unintentional irony, when every unionist on here posts obsessively about the 'Nats', the 'separatists', and mein feckin' Banff. 

 

"And why on Earth does Cameron get so obsessed about the SNP?  Perhaps it is his guilt about how close he was to being responsible for the break up of the Union - but if so, he has learnt nothing.  Why can't he learn about being a bit more positive? 

 

Poor David Cameron is running about like a headless chicken so worried about the SNP gaining seats he cant remember what football team he supports

 

I like David Cameron even less now that he has forgotten that he is supposed to support the Villa

[DoofersDad 4,102]

It's odd that if the SNP are so anti-English that one of the most searched items on Google recently is "Can I vote for the SNP if I live in England?"

 

Surely, these sassenach cyber nat separatists have not heard of our inveterate hatred of all things English, or read Mein feckin Banff.

 

Or maybe, the real division in these islands is only now starting to emerge--between those in fatal thrall to the outdated system and social structure, and those who believe that positive change is actually possible, desirable and achievable.

 

Mon the English cyber nat separatists!

 

"Can I vote for the SNP if I live in England?"   

 

Folk in England taken in the the SNP's shallow sloganising have to resort to Google to find the answer to that!

[dougiedanger 452]

Read 'em and weep our unionist friends (latest Survation poll)  :

 

SNP 51.2% (+4.1)
Labour 25.6% (-0.5)
Conservatives 14.3% (-1.2)
Liberal Democrats 5.4% (+1.4)
UKIP 2.0% (-2.3)
Greens 1.4% (-0.8)

[Charles Bannerman 989]

It's odd that if the SNP are so anti-English that one of the most searched items on Google recently is "Can I vote for the SNP if I live in England?"

 

 

 With friends like that, who needs enemies!?

Was this what they resorted to Googling when they couldn't spell "audition" or "Jeremy Kyle"?

 

Repeat after Nicola and Alex.....

 

"We actually quite like the English."

 

"NHS Scotland is safe in our hands."

 

"The oil is only a bonus."

 

"War is peace."

 

"Freedom is slavery."

 

"Ignorance is strength."

 

And Dougie, we all know that the SNP are going to poll heavily in this election  and this, immediately after the referendum is past, is without doubt the best time to get that particularly nasty dose of political castor oil over with and out of the system.

DD is perfectly right. Those of us who oppose nationalism need to keep reminding everyone that the only thing the SNP are interested in is separation because at the moment it's especially politically inconvenient for the SNP to indulge in this particular reality check.

[DoofersDad 4,102]

Read 'em and weep our unionist friends (latest Survation poll)  :

 

SNP 51.2% (+4.1)

Labour 25.6% (-0.5)

Conservatives 14.3% (-1.2)

Liberal Democrats 5.4% (+1.4)

UKIP 2.0% (-2.3)

Greens 1.4% (-0.8)

 

[dougiedanger 452]

You forgot to mention Mein Banff. Disappointing.

[Charles Bannerman 989]

You forgot to mention Mein Banff. Disappointing.

It's OK.... there are plenty even better analogies

[dougiedanger 452]

 

You forgot to mention Mein Banff. Disappointing.

It's OK.... there are plenty even better analogies

 

 

What could be better, or more hilarious??

[Oddquine 380]

 

 

You forgot to mention Mein Banff. Disappointing.

It's OK.... there are plenty even better analogies

 

 

What could be better, or more hilarious??

 

 

Depends on which side of the fence you occupy........could cite, from where I sit, Allan Cochrane's  tome  Alex Salmond: My Part in His Downfall - The Cochrane Diaries  which are not just hilarious but, according to a couple of reader's review on Amazon,(in a total of 124 reviews which produced more than 50% 1 star ones) were.........a one star review........

 

Ignore the naysayers. I approached this book with scepticism: after all, Alan Cochrane was a well-known myrmidon of the Union, and an apologist for the calamitous policies wrought upon Scotland by the British state. OR SO I THOUGHT! It transpires that Cochrane has either been playing a long game or has, like so many other Scots in the last few months, had a conversionary experience on the road to Damascus.

Our narrator, a daring play on the 19th century "Uncle Tom" figures of demotic American Southern culture, wickedly mocks the unionists he purports to support with his slyly ridiculous commentaries on each stage of the recent independence referendum. If Cochrane - previously better known as the uncle of Eddie "Summertime Blues" Cochrane - had merely said "the majority of the mainstream print, radio and television media acted as little more than slavish mouthpieces for the British state and for the establishment they might once have challenged" then readers would have nodded and moved on. But by taking on just such an outrageously slavishly submissive tone from the very first chapter, Cochrane manages to make a laughing stock of the very Unionist propaganda he mocks.

Time after time, he subtly adopts the preaching tones of a well-off, Morningside establishment figure - the sort of self-centred buffoon he must be all too painfully familiar with - and paints vividly absurdist pictures of such a figure in a series of exaggerated and even entirely fictional escapades in which he sells out his own countrymen in order to gain temporary gratitude from a few braying toffs, while abasing himself before a state that will stop at nothing to ensure access to the oil revenues it needs to support its factional success. Think of a Flashman figure complete with self-interest and moral cowardice but without the women, the flair or the accidental glory.

Brilliant stuff, and I hope I don't accidentally rate it as one star as if it was some self-aggrandising work of dull and plodding fiction that will be forgotten some time before the end of this sentence.

 

and a five star one.......

 

Possibly one of the greatest tales ever told, up there with Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter and Mein Kampf. The story features an incredibly brave protagonist called Alan Cochrane who is really awesome and cool and has loads of girlfriends and not at all a weasel worded, drivel spouting ego maniac.

I don't want to spoil the plot for anyone but there are some really incredible chapters, one of my favourite parts is when Alan and one hundred of his loyal rangers supporters, standing on a huge hadrian's wall of ice, defend the poor southerners from the dribbling northern nationalist hordes. No he didn't steal the idea from that bit in the Game of Thrones off the telly, it was entirely his idea even George RR Martin agrees [citation needed].

Though the last part of the book really is incredible, Alan and his loyal manservant, finally manage to get to the top of Ben Nevis and throw the ring into the pool full of highly caustic Irn Bru, slaying the evil sorcerer Salmond, who up to that point in the book hardly got a mention. No, Alan didn't steal the idea from that bit in the Lord of The Rings, this part of the book was based entirely on what happened during the Scotch referendum [citation needed].

I would give this amazing piece of fiction six stars, sadly Amazon does not allow for such high review scores. I am very hopeful that there will be a sequel or movie adaption as I believe that this book could only be enhanced by the inclusion of Jar jar Binks.

 

Got to love the Scottish sense of humour, don't you?

[Kingsmills 5,793]

The Unionists and supporters of Unionist parties of whatever political hue really are taking a very long time to get it. They are like some children, or even the odd adult, who live in their own fantasy world and who believe if they think or say the same thing often enough it will somehow become true.

 

The thing all of them are saying is that the SNP are ONLY interested in independence and will stop and nothing including ruining the whole United Kingdom to get it. Several contributors to this thread are peddling that myth.

 

All I will say is keep peddling it please. The more it is said the less it is believed and the stronger the SNP grows and the greater the gap in the polls between them and the Unionist parties keeps growing.

 

One side says the SNP agenda is to wreck the UK, The other side say they want to want to work constructively to improve and modernise it. It appears that the public are increasingly deciding who is telling the truth.

[EvilWhiteStripe 11]

https://archive.is/mDAxk

 

Nicola Sturgeon is EVIL! EVIL I TELL YE

[Alex MacLeod 1,539]

https://archive.is/mDAxk

 

Nicola Sturgeon is EVIL! EVIL I TELL YE

Typical of the sick Mail. If this hospital had been built from within budgets in Carlisle it would have been screamed from the top of the Beacons. No, instead lets decry those vile Scots for having the audacity to build something from public funds.

Cost of this hospital £1 billion. Amount of taxes Scotland paid to UK treasury over what we recieved in Barnet since Cameron came to power £27 billion.

The facts are that we are seeing better value and better use of funding north of border than is happening in England and the people in power dont like it. It makes them look very stupid and ill adviced.

[Alex MacLeod 1,539]

Scotland represents just 8.3% of the UK population. Remember that number 8.3%
We have the following share of UK resources -
- 32% Land area
- 61% Sea area
- 90% Surface fresh water
- 65% North Sea natural gas production
- 96.5% North Sea crude oil production
- 47% Open cast coal production
- 81% Coal reserves at sites not yet in production
- 62% Timber production (green tonnes)
- 46% Total forest area (hectares)
- 92% Hydro electric production
- 40% Wind, wave, solar production
- 60% Fish Landings (total by Scottish vessels)
- 55% Fish Landings (total from Scottish waters)
- 30% Beef herd (breeding stock)
- 20% Sheep herd (breeding flock)
- 9% Dairy herd
- 10% Pig herd
- 15% Cereal holdings (hectares)
- 20% potato holdings (hectares)
All with 8.3% of the population!
There are very few countries in the WORLD that rival Scotland's resources per head and in such rich diversity. We absolutely, unequivocally can be an extremely successful independent country.

 

And thats why the fear factor is rife in Westminster

[EvilWhiteStripe 11]

 

https://archive.is/mDAxk

 

Nicola Sturgeon is EVIL! EVIL I TELL YE

Typical of the sick Mail. If this hospital had been built from within budgets in Carlisle it would have been screamed from the top of the Beacons. No, instead lets decry those vile Scots for having the audacity to build something from public funds.

Cost of this hospital £1 billion. Amount of taxes Scotland paid to UK treasury over what we recieved in Barnet since Cameron came to power £27 billion.

The facts are that we are seeing better value and better use of funding north of border than is happening in England and the people in power dont like it. It makes them look very stupid and ill adviced.

 

The other thing you have to remember is that it was done under budget AND early. Even more so was that she was the Health Secretary when it was happening.

 

An incredible achievement. I just wish that we had something like that over in NI, instead we have A&E's struggling to cope and a report saying that they should be closing more hospitals.

[Laurence 136]

At the end of the day British General Elections are between the Red and the Blue. Between the two main parties over 25million people will vote. The rest between them will be lucky to top 4 million

Why should the 4 million tail wag the 25 million dog

So much for democracy

[Joe DiMaggio 291]

At the end of the day British General Elections are between the Red and the Blue. Between the two main parties over 25million people will vote. The rest between them will be lucky to top 4 million

Why should the 4 million tail wag the 25 million dog

So much for democracy

 

But Scotland is a loved and equal part of the union. What was it Gordon Brown said...He doesn't want Scotland to be part of the union he wants Scotland to lead the union.

 

Except if Scotland actually has any influence, then he takes it back and was only joking just like his vow.

[Charles Bannerman 989]

 

 

The thing all of them are saying is that the SNP are ONLY interested in independence and will stop and nothing including ruining the whole United Kingdom to get it. Several contributors to this thread are peddling that myth.

 

 

Right then so, adding in that one, the SNP manifesto, in summary, becomes roughly as follows: -

 

* "We actually quite like the English."

* "NHS Scotland is safe in our hands."

* "The oil is only a bonus."

* "We want to throw out all nukes and depend on a nuclear alliance to defend us."

* "The crowdpleasing, giveaway policies we've suddenly claimed to espouse are not Marxist but just commendably "progressive".

* "Even though we've banged on only about independence until the day before yesterday, it ain't all that important any more (honest)."