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The General Election 2015 Thread


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 In fact it isn't even in Scotland, which should be fairly obvious to anyone who has cast their vote today given that this polling station doesn't have the obligatory SNP mob outside. What's that all about, why can't people be allowed to vote in peace?

It's sort of the way the SNP have always done it. This has been part and parcel of aggressive nationalism in general for decades so you come to expect it. And as for anyone intending to vote for any other party.... well if the mob puts them off coming, then all the better.

It's not a universal feature though. When I arrived to vote there were no Nats outside at all, which I actually found a bit disappointing since this was a missed opportunity to wind them up again.

There were certainly plenty on Inverness High Street on Saturday for the FM's visit. How many were locals and how many were an imported rentamob I'm not sure, but three Yellowshirts were wheeling this trolley piled with all these SNP toys they dish out all over the place when the whole lot fell to earth right in front of me.

I neither broke step nor looked behind to clock the inevitable chorus of feral jeers as I observed: "What a wonderfully symbolic collapse!"

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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Again the reports are inaccurate. Two well known individuals who have made a habit of following Jim Murphy and rudely and very vocally disrupting his meetings who were until yesterday among the 114,00

Achtung! I actually find it hilarious listening to to the British nationalists continually bleating about the referendum, which they won FFS, and how it's all the SNP are interested in. It goes s

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 In fact it isn't even in Scotland, which should be fairly obvious to anyone who has cast their vote today given that this polling station doesn't have the obligatory SNP mob outside. What's that all about, why can't people be allowed to vote in peace?

It's sort of the way the SNP have always done it. This has been part and parcel of aggressive nationalism in general for decades so you come to expect it. And as for anyone intending to vote for any other party.... well if the mob puts them off coming, then all the better.

It's not a universal feature though. When I arrived to vote there were no Nats outside at all, which I actually found a bit disappointing since this was a missed opportunity to wind them up again.

There were certainly plenty on Inverness High Street on Saturday for the FM's visit. How many were locals and how many were an imported rentamob I'm not sure, but three Yellowshirts were wheeling this trolley piled with all these SNP toys they dish out all over the place when the whole lot fell to earth right in front of me.

I neither broke step nor looked behind to clock the inevitable chorus of feral jeers as I observed: "What a wonderfully symbolic collapse!"

 

 

So basically you did what you do on here--hang around in the shadows looking for an opportunity to make some puerile comment that no one finds funny or relevant except for yourself. 

 

Tragic. :lol:

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I'm writing this after the exit polls but before any Scottish result, btw, so I have no idea of the results.

 

Charles, I wish you would stop spewing ordure.  You pass yourself off as an intelligent man...it would help to convince us you are right if you acted like one.

 

When I was active in the SNP from 1979 to around the early 2000s, at elections, there was always an agent from each party at polling stations at all times where I was. In the early days, it tended to be one agent for the SNP floating around local polling stations, and one from each party at each of them. By 1997, when I stood in the local election, the tendency was more one from the SNP at each polling station, and those from the other parties tending to have one at one of the polling stations and another floating between the rest, but all parties canvassed and leafleted with volunteers.

 

Today, our local polling station had a Green visit (which may have been the candidate(a nice bloke) doing the rounds), and seemingly the UKIP one turned up when the SNP agent was in the toilet. Other parties can't find enough people to stand at  polling stations any more, because if they could, they would be there,if only because there are people who arrive, polling card in hot little hand, who won't decide until they are faced with the options and have to make a decision. It is little short of ludicrous to even think that someone who is standing for four hours at a stretch, as they did today, in freezing cold and off and on rain/hailstones, is doing it in order to put people off voting. They are there partly to make sure that the agents of other parties are playing by the rules, and partly to be available if any undecided voter comes along and says "why should I vote for you?" (which has happened more than once, though I don't know if they did vote for us in the end), and to show that at least we think our candidate is worth electing to the extent we are prepared to freeze our bahookeys off to make the point.

 

I haven't worked in an election for the last 15 years or so, but I have voted in every one, local, national and UK, in two constituencies,  and know what to look for, both in canvassing/leafleting terms, and election day activity, and the SNP are more active than any other party, only beaten in voter contact terms by the independent candidate for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross in the Scottish election in 2011.  I, personally, haven't seen a canvasser from any party here in Moray, and  I haven't had a hand delivered leaflet from any party, and as I didn't put up my posters until Monday this week, it wasn't because they knew it was a waste of time, as nobody here is lucky enough to know me, or my politics. (I don't get SNP leaflet deliveries, I make them...and the SNP don't canvass me, obviously, but they do canvass) Politics in general, before the referendum had become so boring and predictable as to stop people joining parties and becoming involved, so there are even fewer people prepared to disrupt their routines to do the mundane standing around in all weathers to show a presence. You can see that by the numbers who have postal votes for no other reason but that they can't even be bothered to get off their backsides and go to the polling station.

 

I was standing, before I went to vote, chatting to the SNP agent, who was very kindly pulling open the heavy door into the polling station for the punters, when she was accosted by a large (mostly width-ways) male Tory and accused of being intimidating. I assume her rosette was threatening to bite him, as he went inside and reported her rosette to the Officer in Charge of the polling place.(who took no action because no rules were being broken) He was however not as nasty as another male Tory voter, but I won't repeat what he said...but  what upset her most was that he is someone she has worked closely with in local community forums.

 

However,  I expect you will not, as you never have, acknowledge that, regardless of the truth or not of media reports, there are a) numpties in all political parties, and b) some people are too fragile to live in this world if they think a rosette is intimidating, an egg is an exocet missile equivalent, a single sticker is vandalism and someone who lets you make your speeches, but  proceeds to interrupt your firing up of your relatively small crowd into chanting in support of you, for the benefit of the cameras, with a microphone set louder than yours is a reason to flee the scene screaming intimidation and the ugly face of nationalism.

 

All politicians need to grow up.and it would be useful if their supporters did as well.

 

Edited to say that it is now 6.15 am on 8/5/2015 .Scotland, so far has 55 SNP MPs (on more than 50% of the vote)  1 Tory MP, 1 Labour MP (Ian Murray  who thinks a sticker is vandalism....and the only decent Labour MP in Scotland, Katy Clark has gone) and 1 LibDem MP (and I can't believe it is Carmichael rather than Charles Kennedy). Tory going to be next Government......and so the fun begins!

Edited by Oddquine
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 Tory going to be next Government......and so the fun begins!

 

Bit ironic that Sturgeon pledged to "lock David Cameron out of Downing Street" but has actually given him another 5 years there! Not just directly by taking seats in Scotland, but more by the effect it had on middle Englanders who understandably weren't keen on the idea of nationalists with just a few % of the vote pulling the strings of a weak Labour government.

 

 

Edited to say that it is now 6.15 am on 8/5/2015 .Scotland, so far has 55 SNP MPs (on more than 50% of the vote) 

 

95% of Scotland's seats on just 50% of the vote. Can we look forward to one of your rants about the unfairness of the FPTP system?!  :wink:

 

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 Tory going to be next Government......and so the fun begins!

 

Bit ironic that Sturgeon pledged to "lock David Cameron out of Downing Street" but has actually given him another 5 years there! Not just directly by taking seats in Scotland, but more by the effect it had on middle Englanders who understandably weren't keen on the idea of nationalists with just a few % of the vote pulling the strings of a weak Labour government.

 

 

 

 

 

Bollocks.

 

Even if every seat went to Labour they wouldn't have enough for a majority. In fact, SNP winning has increased the anti-tori block, because it has got rid of the Lib-Dems.

 

Don't blame "poor wee Scotland" for the UK returning a Conservative government, blame England.

 

Labour failed to win the argument in England, that is why they aren't in Government.

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Having a leader who is a bit of a goon was obviously a factor both north and south of the border, but his shifting position and failure to have a credible stance on the SNP was a major weakness that the Tories exploited very well.

 

FYI the Lib-Dems are anti-tory too!

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Having a leader who is a bit of a goon was obviously a factor both north and south of the border, but his shifting position and failure to have a credible stance on the SNP was a major weakness that the Tories exploited very well.

 

FYI the Lib-Dems are anti-tory too!

 

The Lib-Dems are anti-Tory? The last 5 years doesn't seem to support that statement.

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Having a leader who is a bit of a goon was obviously a factor both north and south of the border, but his shifting position and failure to have a credible stance on the SNP was a major weakness that the Tories exploited very well.

 

FYI the Lib-Dems are anti-tory too!

Blaming the SNP for crushing Labour losses in middle England. Have you been drawing on the same pipe as CB ? I hope you let poor old Laurence have a puff.

 

A magnificent night for Scotland..

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Having a leader who is a bit of a goon was obviously a factor both north and south of the border, but his shifting position and failure to have a credible stance on the SNP was a major weakness that the Tories exploited very well.

 

FYI the Lib-Dems are anti-tory too!

 

The Lib-Dems are anti-Tory? The last 5 years doesn't seem to support that statement.

 

EWS... the election is over so you don't need to keep fighting it - hence don't need to keep trying to convince us that everybody who isn't SNP is actually a Tory. You can safely return that kind of rhetoric to the opposing sides of the Old Firm.

But certainly the expected good night for the SNP and even though they won't get the opportunity to influence government, they do seem to have the bonus of an even more unfettered Conservative government than before - which they can use to stir up even more discontent.

 

So.... "It's The Sun Wot Won It?"

 

Twice over, it seems, because they backed the SNP north of the border while south of the border they backed the Tories in order to keep the SNP out of government.

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Having a leader who is a bit of a goon was obviously a factor both north and south of the border, but his shifting position and failure to have a credible stance on the SNP was a major weakness that the Tories exploited very well.

 

FYI the Lib-Dems are anti-tory too!

 

The Lib-Dems are anti-Tory? The last 5 years doesn't seem to support that statement.

 

EWS... the election is over so you don't need to keep fighting it - hence don't need to keep trying to convince us that everybody who isn't SNP is actually a Tory. You can safely return that kind of rhetoric to the opposing sides of the Old Firm.

But certainly the expected good night for the SNP and even though they won't get the opportunity to influence government, they do seem to have the bonus of an even more unfettered Conservative government than before - which they can use to stir up even more discontent.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone that those who aren't SNP are actually Tory, I've never made a statement ever to that effect. In fact, there are a lot of good, non-SNP politicians who have lost their seats tonight (Charles Kennedy being but one of them).

 

But to try and paint the Lib-Dem as not being part of the Tory block completely ignores the last 5 years when the Lib Dems were in cahoots with the Conservatives and did all manner of damage to the UK (in my opinion). You also have to look at what Clegg was saying in the run up to the election first saying he wanted to be part of a Tory government (when they were winning), than saying he would join the Labour (when they were winning) and then flip flopping all over the place.

 

And the electorate looks like it has agreed. They have destroyed the Lib Dems because of what they have "accomplished" in government seeing them as no better than the Conservative party, so instead of electing Lib Dems they have just switched to Conservative, in England at least, and then in Scotland have said "No Thanks".

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I find myself agreeing with Nigel Farage, hopefully in relation to one matter only. Although it benefited the party I support, it is hardly fair that, in Scotland, the SNP takes almost all the seats on just over half the popular vote.

 

High time the archaic first past the post system for Westminster elections was reformed.

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Salmond claims the Scottish lion roared last night and cannot be ignored.  Wrong.  The Scottish lion roared last September when 55% of the electorate said it wanted to remain in the communal pride of the United Kingdom.  The SNP needs to respect and act on that vote before it has any right to expect the new Government to listen.

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Salmond claims the Scottish lion roared last night and cannot be ignored.  Wrong.  The Scottish lion roared last September when 55% of the electorate said it wanted to remain in the communal pride of the United Kingdom.  The SNP needs to respect and act on that vote before it has any right to expect the new Government to listen.

 

Exactly. And if you notice, every party apart from the SNP were the ones banging on about it.

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I find myself agreeing with Nigel Farage, hopefully in relation to one matter only. Although it benefited the party I support, it is hardly fair that, in Scotland, the SNP takes almost all the seats on just over half the popular vote.

 

High time the archaic first past the post system for Westminster elections was reformed.

I agree on that.  Perhaps if the SNP had properly accepted the referendum result and ruled out a 2nd referendum for the time being whilst campaigning for electoral reform as the price for supporting a labour government, voters in England would have been more inclined to vote labour.  But no.  The SNP is not into the politics of progressive reform as it claims, it is into the corrosive politics of confrontation and division.  It was always a Tory Government that the SNP wanted because a Tory Government unfettered by Lib Dem restraint will harden grievance in Scotland and increase the clamour for a 2nd referendum.  Well, we have got a Tory Government now and we can expect a period of acrimonious, confrontational politics.  A good day for the SNP maybe but a sad day for Scotland.

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I find myself agreeing with Nigel Farage, hopefully in relation to one matter only. Although it benefited the party I support, it is hardly fair that, in Scotland, the SNP takes almost all the seats on just over half the popular vote.

 

High time the archaic first past the post system for Westminster elections was reformed.

I agree on that.  Perhaps if the SNP had properly accepted the referendum result and ruled out a 2nd referendum for the time being whilst campaigning for electoral reform as the price for supporting a labour government, voters in England would have been more inclined to vote labour.  But no.  The SNP is not into the politics of progressive reform as it claims, it is into the corrosive politics of confrontation and division.  It was always a Tory Government that the SNP wanted because a Tory Government unfettered by Lib Dem restraint will harden grievance in Scotland and increase the clamour for a 2nd referendum.  Well, we have got a Tory Government now and we can expect a period of acrimonious, confrontational politics.  A good day for the SNP maybe but a sad day for Scotland.

 

 

Do you have some sort of device that can read peoples minds or something?

 

It is amazing how many clairvoyents have suddenly sprung up out of the woodwork claiming to know what the SNP really want and what they are really like. I suppose that you claim that 50% of the Scottish electorate are also gullible for being "taken in by these charlatans"?

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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

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Perhaps mathematics has changed since I left school but is not just over 50% not the majority as was 55% ? Could it not be that the realisation of broken promises and the back stabbing tipped the scales. Some peeple would like the decision to be decided like a Rose Street Hall fiasco.

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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

I've obviously misunderstood something.  It was the "Red Tories" Sturgeon wanted to lock out of Downing street!  No wonder you are all so happy.

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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

Once you weed out the Citizen Smith stuff, there's a good element of truth in this. I believe that the origins of Labour's problem go back to the 1980s when the likes of Michael Foot and Wedgie Benn, interestingly enough peddling a lot of policies which the SNP have more recently been pushing, renedered the party unelectable.

Enter then in the 90s that opportunist Tony Blair and the creation of "New Labour" which quickly espoused a lot of traditionally Tory policies, scrapped Clause Whateveritwas (4?) of the Labour Party constitution and generally swung to the right in pursuit of electability.

Now this did get them elected three times but created a vacuum in the mid to far left departments which, in Scotland, initially the Scottish Socialist Party attempted to fill but in which the SNP have latterly spotted the main chance - hence their recent leftward lurch.

Now it's taken almost a couple of decades for these chickens to come home to roost since the old habits of the Red Clydesiders and the traditions of the cradle of the Labour Party etc die hard. But Labour's failure to mind their own back - or rather left flank - has presented the SNP with a huge opportunity.

Add to that the scandalous complacency which has permeated the Labour Party in its areas of traditional strength, and you open up another vulnerability. Next up is weak Labour leadership in Scotland. Joanne Lamont was pretty poor and probably the most assertive thing she ever did was to point up Scottish Labour as a "branch office" when she resigned. Before that, Iain Gray also failed to enthuse and it's my belief that his "sandwich shop" moment in the 2011 Scottish campaign will go down as one of the turning points of Scottish political history. In the early phase of that campaign, Labour had been well ahead in the polls but eventually that converted into an SNP majority. The sandwich shop moment (cf Miliband eating a bacon roll!) is by any logical standards completely insignificant, but it seemed to have this hugely disproportionate effect as a catalyst for the opening of the floodgates for a process which has now reached the proportions of yesterday.

All of that makes the additional negative effect for Labour of having had Mr Bean in charge until an hour ago look relatively insiginificant, not only in Scotland but across the UK.

 

I am told that the Inverness Labour Party is due to have its traditional post-election social(ist) gathering in the ICT Social club tomorrow night. I woldn't imagine the atmosphere would compare in any way with the moment David Raven was carried in there after the Scottish Cup semi final.

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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

I've obviously misunderstood something.  It was the "Red Tories" Sturgeon wanted to lock out of Downing street!  No wonder you are all so happy.

 

I appreciate that you are bitterly disappointed but try not to let bitter disappointment turn into mere bitterness as I suspect you are better than that. Perhaps, although you disagree with us, you will forgive those of us who support the party who one in Scotland enjoyed success and popularity on a scale and with swings unprecedented by far in the entire history of elections to Westminster since union of the parliaments for 'being happy'.

 

You may not like it but something happened yesterday that went went way beyond the normal casting of votes and from which there will and can be no return. It is not too late to save the Union and least for the medium term but that lies in the hands of the Prime Minister. If he fails to recognise what has happened and act fairly and appropriately and instead continues to stoke up resentment between nations rather than to properly implement what was promised towards the end of the referendum campaign he, and not the SNP or Nicola Sturgeon will be responsible for the end of the union.

 

Perhaps there is still a chance but that depends on a new Treaty of Union this time one agreed by the people and fit for democratic purpose.

Edited by Kingsmills
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You may not like it but something happened yesterday that went went way beyond the normal casting of votes and from which there will and can be no return.

 

That sounds remarkably like what the Labour Party were saying after the Atlee landslide of 1945. By 1950 their majority was down to wafer thin and the Labour government collapsed in 1951 leading to 13 years of Tory rule. Very often the electorate doesn't even have to tumble to the fact that it has been had in order to change its mind in a big way.

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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