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The General Election 2015 Thread


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Salmond claims the Scottish lion roared last night and cannot be ignored.  Wrong.  The Scottish lion roared last September when 55% of the electorate said it wanted to remain in the communal pride of the United Kingdom.  The SNP needs to respect and act on that vote before it has any right to expect the new Government to listen.

 

Nah, that was the lambs, bleating.

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Again the reports are inaccurate. Two well known individuals who have made a habit of following Jim Murphy and rudely and very vocally disrupting his meetings who were until yesterday among the 114,00

Achtung! I actually find it hilarious listening to to the British nationalists continually bleating about the referendum, which they won FFS, and how it's all the SNP are interested in. It goes s

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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

I've obviously misunderstood something.  It was the "Red Tories" Sturgeon wanted to lock out of Downing street!  No wonder you are all so happy.

 

 

Didn't you notice she said if a lot when she talked about what could happen after the election..... if as in if the Tories can't cobble together a majority and if Labour and the rest of the left parties can?

 

The SNP has always said that they would try to put some spine into NuLabour whether that was in power or in opposition.  It happens to be in opposition.  Maybe this time round, the Tories will actually have one, then.  However the Tories will have to watch their rebels, as their majority is a lot less than they had with the coalition, with just the DUP and UKIP, and if the LibDems finally want to commit suicide,  them, to help out if they have rebels.

 

Stu on Wings is having an "I told you so" moment and is reminding us that he said a year ago that the Tories would win in 2015, unless something dramatic happened. http://wingsoverscotland.com/bleeding-obvious-confirmed/   and nothing dramatic did.

 

Murphy is sounding like IM Jolly on the radio...but he's not going anywhere soon, it appears.........at least not willingly.

 

The Tory vote has gone up.and the anti-Tory vote has gone up more.........the winner in this election was the FPTP system.....time to get rid of it! 

 

Cameron is saying he'll govern as the party of one nation...is that not what he was meant to be doing from 2010 until now........or has he finally redefined one nation to include more than just the city state of London?  If so, deep joy!

 

It'll be interesting to see how NuLabour will behave in Westminster...and whether their SNP hatefest will continue, or if they can work together in opposition.  I wouldn't however, like to see the SNP voting against any decent policies from the Tories just because they came from the Tories.  Cutting off nose to spite face has never been a clever thing to do.

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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

I've obviously misunderstood something.  It was the "Red Tories" Sturgeon wanted to lock out of Downing street!  No wonder you are all so happy.

 

 

Didn't you notice she said if a lot when she talked about what could happen after the election..... if as in if the Tories can't cobble together a majority and if Labour and the rest of the left parties can?

 

The SNP has always said that they would try to put some spine into NuLabour whether that was in power or in opposition.  It happens to be in opposition.  Maybe this time round, the Tories will actually have one, then.  However the Tories will have to watch their rebels, as their majority is a lot less than they had with the coalition, with just the DUP and UKIP, and if the LibDems finally want to commit suicide,  them, to help out if they have rebels.

 

Stu on Wings is having an "I told you so" moment and is reminding us that he said a year ago that the Tories would win in 2015, unless something dramatic happened. http://wingsoverscotland.com/bleeding-obvious-confirmed/   and nothing dramatic did.

 

Murphy is sounding like IM Jolly on the radio...but he's not going anywhere soon, it appears.........at least not willingly.

 

The Tory vote has gone up.and the anti-Tory vote has gone up more.........the winner in this election was the FPTP system.....time to get rid of it! 

 

Cameron is saying he'll govern as the party of one nation...is that not what he was meant to be doing from 2010 until now........or has he finally redefined one nation to include more than just the city state of London?  If so, deep joy!

 

It'll be interesting to see how NuLabour will behave in Westminster...and whether their SNP hatefest will continue, or if they can work together in opposition.  I wouldn't however, like to see the SNP voting against any decent policies from the Tories just because they came from the Tories.  Cutting off nose to spite face has never been a clever thing to do.

 

 

Cameron says he will govern as One Nation. He seems to changed his tune.

 

First it was "We Love you Scotland please stay" then it was the whole "English votes for English laws" nonsense straight away, which by the way, is going to be insanely difficult to actually implement. The whitewash of the Smith Commision (with all Tax Raising powers offset by a reduction in the block grant) then during the campaign we were only allowed to have a say if we voted for the right party, and now he is back to loving us again.

 

Crazy.

 

I will be interested to see if the SNP stick to their rule of only voting on things that affect Scotland, or if they break it. I, for one, would be disappointed if they did break it.

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I love that the public said "no thanks" to most of the politicians from the No campaign and that they think we are "better together" under an snp government.

(this post is dedicated to jim murphy danny alexander douglas alexander ed milliband and nigel farage goodluck at the job center!)

Edited by Ayeseetee
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I find myself agreeing with Nigel Farage, hopefully in relation to one matter only. Although it benefited the party I support, it is hardly fair that, in Scotland, the SNP takes almost all the seats on just over half the popular vote.

High time the archaic first past the post system for Westminster elections was reformed.

I agree on that. Perhaps if the SNP had properly accepted the referendum result and ruled out a 2nd referendum for the time being whilst campaigning for electoral reform as the price for supporting a labour government, voters in England would have been more inclined to vote labour. But no. The SNP is not into the politics of progressive reform as it claims, it is into the corrosive politics of confrontation and division. It was always a Tory Government that the SNP wanted because a Tory Government unfettered by Lib Dem restraint will harden grievance in Scotland and increase the clamour for a 2nd referendum. Well, we have got a Tory Government now and we can expect a period of acrimonious, confrontational politics. A good day for the SNP maybe but a sad day for Scotland. England voting to leave europe + Scotland voting to stay but forced to leave under the uk = Scottish independence referendum

That is why they didn't and WON'T rule out another referendum.

Edited by Ayeseetee
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You may not like it but something happened yesterday that went went way beyond the normal casting of votes and from which there will and can be no return.

 

That sounds remarkably like what the Labour Party were saying after the Atlee landslide of 1945. By 1950 their majority was down to 5 seats and the Labour government collapsed in 1951 leading to 13 years of Tory rule. Very often the electorate doesn't even have to tumble to the fact that it has been had in order to change its mind in a big way.

 

 

That drop in 1950 was as much because of boundary changes, and the stopping of plural voting as anything else.

 

In 1951 Labour got more votes  than the Conservatives, but because of the changes to the voting system/boundaries, less seats....and as the National Liberals were allies of the Conservative Party and were never going to have a coalition with Labour, only the Conservatives could form a Government. Would Attlee have called an election in 1951 if the king hadn't been worried abut leaving the country to visit the Commonwealth in 1952, leaving a Government with such a slim majority in charge, I wonder? 

 

I think the reason Labour lost in 1951 was because they'd run out of steam, having accomplished pretty much what they wanted to between 1945 and 1950, and didn't really have much in the way of policies ready to replace them.  All the Tories really had to do was not threaten what Labour had done and throw out lots of slogans about family life, the Empire  etc.(much like the way the referendum was run).....and make Margaret Roberts tone down her rhetoric!  :smile:

 

You can't really equate Attlee's situation with the SNP, because even if they had been supporting a NuLabour Government, they wouldn't be making policy and having to pass it. I can't see the pro-independence vote collapsing any time soon.and all the SNP needs to do to maintain most of that is the very best they can, and be seen to do the very best they can, however the attempts turn out.  As many eyes from Scotland for the next five years will be on how NuLabour behaves in opposition as will be on the SNP in opposition. 

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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

I've obviously misunderstood something.  It was the "Red Tories" Sturgeon wanted to lock out of Downing street!  No wonder you are all so happy.

 

 

Didn't you notice she said if a lot when she talked about what could happen after the election..... if as in if the Tories can't cobble together a majority and if Labour and the rest of the left parties can?

 

The SNP has always said that they would try to put some spine into NuLabour whether that was in power or in opposition.  It happens to be in opposition.  Maybe this time round, the Tories will actually have one, then.  However the Tories will have to watch their rebels, as their majority is a lot less than they had with the coalition, with just the DUP and UKIP, and if the LibDems finally want to commit suicide,  them, to help out if they have rebels.

 

Stu on Wings is having an "I told you so" moment and is reminding us that he said a year ago that the Tories would win in 2015, unless something dramatic happened. http://wingsoverscotland.com/bleeding-obvious-confirmed/   and nothing dramatic did.

 

Murphy is sounding like IM Jolly on the radio...but he's not going anywhere soon, it appears.........at least not willingly.

 

The Tory vote has gone up.and the anti-Tory vote has gone up more.........the winner in this election was the FPTP system.....time to get rid of it! 

 

Cameron is saying he'll govern as the party of one nation...is that not what he was meant to be doing from 2010 until now........or has he finally redefined one nation to include more than just the city state of London?  If so, deep joy!

 

It'll be interesting to see how NuLabour will behave in Westminster...and whether their SNP hatefest will continue, or if they can work together in opposition.  I wouldn't however, like to see the SNP voting against any decent policies from the Tories just because they came from the Tories.  Cutting off nose to spite face has never been a clever thing to do.

 

 

Cameron says he will govern as One Nation. He seems to changed his tune.

 

First it was "We Love you Scotland please stay" then it was the whole "English votes for English laws" nonsense straight away, which by the way, is going to be insanely difficult to actually implement. The whitewash of the Smith Commision (with all Tax Raising powers offset by a reduction in the block grant) then during the campaign we were only allowed to have a say if we voted for the right party, and now he is back to loving us again.

 

Crazy.

 

I will be interested to see if the SNP stick to their rule of only voting on things that affect Scotland, or if they break it. I, for one, would be disappointed if they did break it.

 

 

I was reading somewhere, but right now I can't remember where, that in the last Parliamentary year, there were only, 6 or 7 bills passed which did not affect Scotland, out of loads of them. After  all, while we have, for example, some aspects of energy devolved, others are reserved, like fracking.......and it is the same with other devolved responsibilities..few are completely under the sole control of Westminster. and most are dependent on what happens in England for funding.   

 

I'm inclined to think that if anything which does not affect Scotland at all  comes up and if it is something which is covered in the manifesto, which was not a manifesto specifically for Scotland only, they have an obligation to vote on it.

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it is hardly fair that, in Scotland, the SNP takes almost all the seats on just over half the popular vote.

 

 

For the record, the SNP got just under 50%.  So, as with the referendum, they continue to represent the views of a minority of Scots.

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In fact it isn't even in Scotland, which should be fairly obvious to anyone who has cast their vote today given that this polling station doesn't have the obligatory SNP mob outside. What's that all about, why can't people be allowed to vote in peace?

It's sort of the way the SNP have always done it. This has been part and parcel of aggressive nationalism in general for decades so you come to expect it. And as for anyone intending to vote for any other party.... well if the mob puts them off coming, then all the better.

It's not a universal feature though. When I arrived to vote there were no Nats outside at all, which I actually found a bit disappointing since this was a missed opportunity to wind them up again.

There were certainly plenty on Inverness High Street on Saturday for the FM's visit. How many were locals and how many were an imported rentamob I'm not sure, but three Yellowshirts were wheeling this trolley piled with all these SNP toys they dish out all over the place when the whole lot fell to earth right in front of me.

I neither broke step nor looked behind to clock the inevitable chorus of feral jeers as I observed: "What a wonderfully symbolic collapse!"

Better watch what you say about the yellowshirts now Charles or you might find yourself being dragged off to the haggis mines in the middle of the night. But seriously as someone so fond of historical analogy you must appreciate the irony of there being one of each left alive to scuttle off to their masters in London bearing news of the massacre.

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it is hardly fair that, in Scotland, the SNP takes almost all the seats on just over half the popular vote.

For the record, the SNP got just under 50%. So, as with the referendum, they continue to represent the views of a minority of Scots.If you are saying it's just under 50% because you are counting all the unionist parties together then you should follow the same rules for the "nationalist" parties and combine the green votes with the snp's. Edited by Ayeseetee
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In fact it isn't even in Scotland, which should be fairly obvious to anyone who has cast their vote today given that this polling station doesn't have the obligatory SNP mob outside. What's that all about, why can't people be allowed to vote in peace?

It's sort of the way the SNP have always done it. This has been part and parcel of aggressive nationalism in general for decades so you come to expect it. And as for anyone intending to vote for any other party.... well if the mob puts them off coming, then all the better.

It's not a universal feature though. When I arrived to vote there were no Nats outside at all, which I actually found a bit disappointing since this was a missed opportunity to wind them up again.

There were certainly plenty on Inverness High Street on Saturday for the FM's visit. How many were locals and how many were an imported rentamob I'm not sure, but three Yellowshirts were wheeling this trolley piled with all these SNP toys they dish out all over the place when the whole lot fell to earth right in front of me.

I neither broke step nor looked behind to clock the inevitable chorus of feral jeers as I observed: "What a wonderfully symbolic collapse!"

Better watch what you say about the yellowshirts now Charles or you might find yourself being dragged off to the haggis mines in the middle of the night. But seriously as someone so fond of historical analogy you must appreciate the irony of there being one of each left alive to scuttle off to their masters in London bearing news of the massacre.

 

Yup, as I write Evil White Stripe with his lynch mob and Dougiedanger with his Fort George snatch squad are racing each other up the road to get to my place first.

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England voting to leave europe + Scotland voting to stay but forced to leave under the uk = Scottish independence referendum

That is why they didn't and WON'T rule out another referendum.

 

Right, so let me get this straight. People who believe fanatically in taking powers back home (well, no nearer home than Holyrood anyway) will, if there's a vote to take massive powers back from Brussels, start shouting for another Scottish referendum so they can hand them back to Brussels again.

 

Oh, and when will the third Scottish referendum be?

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England voting to leave europe + Scotland voting to stay but forced to leave under the uk = Scottish independence referendum

That is why they didn't and WON'T rule out another referendum.

 

Right, so let me get this straight. People who believe fanatically in taking powers back home (well, no nearer home than Holyrood anyway) will, if there's a vote to take massive powers back from Brussels, start shouting for another Scottish referendum so they can hand them back to Brussels again.

 

Oh, and when will the third Scottish referendum be?

 

Ayesettee's scenario is the only one that would see another referendum in the length of time you have left on this earth Charles. Contrary to what people are attempting to spin the SNP have accepted the result of last year and have no intention of having another one.

It seems to me, however, that there is not a lot of confidence among the non SNP electorate when they are assuming the SNP will win Holyrood next year.

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Ayesettee's scenario is the only one that would see another referendum in the length of time you have left on this earth Charles.

 

Well that might not be very long -  whether it's EWS or DD who wins that race to my house :lol:

 

Once again, as with the mounting (Mountain? :smile: ) evidence of intimidation, we have an interesting scenario of an SNP apologist trying to claim "nothing to do with the party guv'nor" while this is what the rank and file are actually doing or saying (usually fairly loudly) even if the party is trying to avoid admitting it publicly. This is a big issue the SNP are now going to have to face with tens of thousands of new loose cannons, many of them raging loony lefties, in their membership making demands which may well threaten to pull the party off-message.

 

I'm still wondering about that third referendum though. Because in the event of a second one, if the Nats lose they will inevitably shout for yet another one until the get the one result they need. And if they win, then if the Nats can get another go, so presumably can those who support the Union.

 

Oooops.... they've reached the end of my street :crazy:  It's DD with the handcuffs by a short head from EWS with the noose.... I'd better sign off and get out of here fast :amazed:  :ohmy:  

 

Hang on a minute! They've both suddenly stopped dead in their tracks and are going back up the street. The SNP surge has already run out of steam and gone into reverse. :smile:

 

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Ayesettee's scenario is the only one that would see another referendum in the length of time you have left on this earth Charles.

 

Well that might not be very long -  whether it's EWS or DD who wins that race to my house :lol:

 

Once again, as with the mounting (Mountain? :smile: ) evidence of intimidation, we have an interesting scenario of an SNP apologist trying to claim "nothing to do with the party guv'nor" while this is what the rank and file are actually doing or saying (usually fairly loudly) even if the party is trying to avoid admitting it publicly. This is a big issue the SNP are now going to have to face with tens of thousands of new loose cannons, many of them raging loony lefties, in their membership making demands which may well threaten to pull the party off-message.

 

I'm still wondering about that third referendum though. Because in the event of a second one, if the Nats lose they will inevitably shout for yet another one until the get the one result they need. And if they win, then if the Nats can get another go, so presumably can those who support the Union.

 

Oooops.... they've reached the end of my street :crazy:  It's DD with the handcuffs by a short head from EWS with the noose.... I'd better sign off and get out of here fast :amazed:  :ohmy:  

 

Hang on a minute! They've both suddenly stopped dead in their tracks and are going back up the street. The SNP surge has already run out of steam and gone into reverse. :smile:

 

I think you need to put down the Irn Bru and step down from the crate for a while there Jim :wink:

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England voting to leave europe + Scotland voting to stay but forced to leave under the uk = Scottish independence referendum

That is why they didn't and WON'T rule out another referendum.

 

Right, so let me get this straight. People who believe fanatically in taking powers back home (well, no nearer home than Holyrood anyway) will, if there's a vote to take massive powers back from Brussels, start shouting for another Scottish referendum so they can hand them back to Brussels again.

 

Oh, and when will the third Scottish referendum be?

 

Ayesettee's scenario is the only one that would see another referendum in the length of time you have left on this earth Charles. Contrary to what people are attempting to spin the SNP have accepted the result of last year and have no intention of having another one.

If that is the case it would be helpful to everyone if they would communicate that fact.  Sturgeon has been repeatedly asked and has failed to give a clear answer.  Answers have ranged from "it will be for the people to decide" to "there are no plans to have one at the moment unless there is something which materially changes the situation" with the "something" being left deliberately vague, whilst the wording leaves room for plans for a referendum to appear in time for inclusion in the Holyrood manifesto.  This uncertainty about how quickly Sturgeon would like to see the end of the Union was a prime reason why the English voters were unhappy to vote for a Labour party which might be kept in a minority Government through a deal with the SNP.

 

The irony here is that had Sturgeon behaved more honourably and made it clear that there was no prospect of the Union ending any time soon, then Miliband may have been happy to work with the SNP and voters would have been more inclined to vote Labour.  Sturgeon's failure to be more explicit turned people away from Labour in English marginals and was undoubtedly a factor in delivering a majority Tory Government.    So why wasn't Sturgeon more explicit about the fact that there will not be a referendum in the next Holyrood Parliament?  Simple.  It has not been ruled out.  It will be fascinating to see whether it is in the manifesto or not next year.

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Ayesettee's scenario is the only one that would see another referendum in the length of time you have left on this earth Charles.

 

Well that might not be very long -  whether it's EWS or DD who wins that race to my house :lol:

 

Once again, as with the mounting (Mountain? :smile: ) evidence of intimidation, we have an interesting scenario of an SNP apologist trying to claim "nothing to do with the party guv'nor" while this is what the rank and file are actually doing or saying (usually fairly loudly) even if the party is trying to avoid admitting it publicly. This is a big issue the SNP are now going to have to face with tens of thousands of new loose cannons, many of them raging loony lefties, in their membership making demands which may well threaten to pull the party off-message.

 

I'm still wondering about that third referendum though. Because in the event of a second one, if the Nats lose they will inevitably shout for yet another one until the get the one result they need. And if they win, then if the Nats can get another go, so presumably can those who support the Union.

 

Oooops.... they've reached the end of my street :crazy:  It's DD with the handcuffs by a short head from EWS with the noose.... I'd better sign off and get out of here fast :amazed:  :ohmy:  

 

Hang on a minute! They've both suddenly stopped dead in their tracks and are going back up the street. The SNP surge has already run out of steam and gone into reverse. :smile:

 

I think you need to put down the Irn Bru and step down from the crate for a while there Jim :wink:

 

Mr Fraser.... I assure you that the crate is being used for quite another purpose - namely to wedge the front door shut in case Dougie Danger and his mate ever come back :smile:

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Sturgeon's failure to be more explicit turned people away from Labour in English marginals and was undoubtedly a factor in delivering a majority Tory Government.   

I also really can't see how SNP voters can have any legitimate grievance at the Tory government which has been elected or hence at the European Referendum which it has said it will hold.

After all, when they went into the polling booths there was every indication that if Scotland delivered a significant number of Labour MPs then Labour could well be the largest overall party, which was the best chance of preventing a Tory government.

As it happens, Labour were so rank poor across the entire UK that this would not actually have happened, even if they had won all 59 Scottish seats.

But at the time the voting decision was made, every X marking the SNP spot represented an increased risk of the Tories returning to power. SNP voters knew that and presumably didn't rate stopping them among their higher priorities.

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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Labour have only themselves to blame, too scared to put any real distance between themselves and the other tories, constantly outmanouvered by them, led by a cabal of self-interested Oxbridge toffs, and at the helm a glorified milk monitor you would barely trust to take your bins out. 

I've obviously misunderstood something.  It was the "Red Tories" Sturgeon wanted to lock out of Downing street!  No wonder you are all so happy.

 

I appreciate that you are bitterly disappointed but try not to let bitter disappointment turn into mere bitterness as I suspect you are better than that. Perhaps, although you disagree with us, you will forgive those of us who support the party who one in Scotland enjoyed success and popularity on a scale and with swings unprecedented by far in the entire history of elections to Westminster since union of the parliaments for 'being happy'.

 

You may not like it but something happened yesterday that went went way beyond the normal casting of votes and from which there will and can be no return. It is not too late to save the Union and least for the medium term but that lies in the hands of the Prime Minister. If he fails to recognise what has happened and act fairly and appropriately and instead continues to stoke up resentment between nations rather than to properly implement what was promised towards the end of the referendum campaign he, and not the SNP or Nicola Sturgeon will be responsible for the end of the union.

 

Perhaps there is still a chance but that depends on a new Treaty of Union this time one agreed by the people and fit for democratic purpose.

 

It is always refreshing to have contributions from yourself to provide some sensible points to these political debates.  Yes, I do accept that something remarkable has happened in the Scottish political landscape and supporters of the SNP have every right to celebrate.

 

I would, however, take issue with you on your statement that the state of the Union is in the hands of the Prime Minister.  Yes, he has a role here but like it or not, he, unlike the SNP, has a mandate to govern throughout the United Kingdom.  Sturgeon has told voters in the rest of the UK that they have nothing to fear from the SNP and that the SNP will work with other for progressive policies and reform throughout the UK.  She, in turn needs to ensure that her MPs deliver on that promise.

 

Your point about a new Treaty of Union is an interesting one and worthy of exploration.  My view was always that last year's referendum was a complete shambles due to the lack of clarity about key aspects of what independence might mean.  But it took place and the voters opted to stay in the Union.  That decision should be respected and rather than talk about a further ill thought through shambles, surely now is the time to take stock and have some form of constitutional convention to discuss structures of Government throughout the UK.  What we have now is clearly not fit for purpose. 

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Sturgeon's failure to be more explicit turned people away from Labour in English marginals and was undoubtedly a factor in delivering a majority Tory Government.

the best chance of preventing a Tory government.

The best chance of preventing a tory government was a yes vote last September...

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The SNP always strike me as the cuddly party

The Young teenager who has got fed up of living  with Mum and Dad's house rules

It has found that going out on a Saturday night is good fun

There is a cheery auntie who takes them out for tea and cakes, an old uncle who likes to make silly jokes.

The teenager really would like to get a flat, be independent. Mum and Dad  are not too keen on that

They get there spending money every week, don't really understand where it comes from, they expect presents at Christmas, but most of all they think they know best, and they want to fly the nest. Full knowing if things go wrong Mum and Dad will always be there

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They get there spending money every week, don't really understand where it comes from, they expect presents at Christmas, but most of all they think they know best, and they want to fly the nest. Full knowing if things go wrong Mum and Dad will always be there

 

You do realise that the SNP has balanced their budget every single year right?

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I was away in Wetherby with my work from Wednesday, the election was a big talking point while out for dinner and a few beers.  When I said I had already sent my postal vote in for SNP I was getting a lot of stick from my colleagues most of it just banter.  Although some had said they had seen Nicola Sturgeon on the debates south of the border and were quite impressed with her they did not think the SNP would gain many more seats.  On Friday morning I was first down for breakfast to greet them with a big smile :smile: what a great week :scotland:  :scotland:    

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