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Compliance Officer / Justice for Meekings


RossP

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Yes - the ref has messed up.  Yes - you should have had a penalty.

Was the handball deliberate?  Not for a second.

 

 

 

I'll not comment on the rest of your post but just this little contradiction above.  If it wasn't deliberate then it should not have been a penalty.  The laws of the game require the handball to be deliberate for it to be a foul.  There is widespread confusion about this and we are even hearing loads of folk who are very experienced in the game accepting it was not deliberate but at the same time saying it should have been a penalty. 

 

Perhaps one good thing which might come out of this sorry episode is some better guidance for the interpretation of the law.  IMHO more than half of all penalties given for handball are not deliberate and so we see defenders get punished for a ball hitting them in the arm at point blank range but not for wrapping their arms around an opponent to prevent them going for the ball.  For the good of the game that needs to change.

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Celtic fans have many reasons to distrust the SFA - some good and other perhaps not - but they have no impact on what's going on here. As to Celtic's right to ask for an explanation: I would ask if positions were reversed on the day would ICT fans not be demanding an explanation? I'm sure they would.

 

Well let's think about this type of scenario for a moment.  In the League Cup Final last year, around about the 80th minute, Richie Foran attempted to head a cross from a corner kick towards the goal, but didn't get a strong enough head on it.  Replays showed that he was pulled back by an Aberdeen player.  Now using the Celtic Logic (that being that their crystal balls have told them beyond all doubt that it definitely would've been a red card, the penalty would've been scored and that there was no way ICT would come back from 2-0 down despite it happening twice before and once with ten men for a fair chunk of the match), that penalty would've been scored and with ten minutes left ICT would've ran the clock down and won the League Cup.  Sure we were disappointed that we never got it, but we accepted it and unfortunately didn't do the business and got beat.  Disappointed?  Yes.  Had the penalty been given, would things be different?  Probably.  Demand the club write a letter to the SFA and our fans indulge in some absolutely sickening abuse of the Aberdeen player who we can't we even remember which one it was?  No.  Using the Celtic Logic, it would be fair game, but we didn't.  Who cares about all the success Celtic have had.  In recent years, ICT have shown more class than your club ever will.

 

You say the Celtic fans are demanding answers.  Who cares?  They're nothing but bad losers and (as anyone who's ever looked at that crackpot blogger Phil Mac...Mac...Mac...whatever his name is will tell you) a sizeable chunk are thick as mince.  It's quite embarrassing that they've totally bowed down to them.  Of course though, it's all about money.  Thick-as-mince fans buy stuff and you wouldn't want to alienate your largest market...

 

Finally, you say Celtic have a number of reasons to distrust the SFA?  Why would that be?  Is that these crackpot conspiracies involving Masons, the Triads, UFOs and all the rest of it?  Utterly cringeworthy, with Celtic once again attempting to create a vehicle for their thick fans to vent their anger out.  I'll tell you this, I'd find it hard to support a club like that.

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If Josh's case is admonished or he wins will Celtic pay our costs? plus compensation for stress and anxiety they have caused him.

 

According to STV Sport's piece on the whole affair, there is no cost to defending this - apparently it is different from appealing a red card (!?) The only cost would therefore be travel and I think club officals are at Hampden today anyway for discussions about the cup final. I think it should actually be the SFA that should pay Josh for "pain and suffering".

 

Not sure I know any lawyers that come free tbh??? You do wonder how some of these journalists have a job?

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I've been a Celtic supporter for almost 60 years and was at Sunday's Game and of course I was disappointed that we got beat and it does hurt to get so close to a Treble and not get it. But that feeling would have been the same if the incident involving Josh had never happened.

 

I don't know a single Celtic supporter that want's to see him barred from the final. He should have been dealt with at the time and that might have seen him miss the final - who knows?

 

But IMO the fact that every official was temporarily 'blind' at the crucial moment isn't good enough reason for the Compliance Officer to act and I think it's a deliberate attempt by the SFA to scapegoat Meekings as a deflection from the gross failure of every single match official.

 

Celtic fans have many reasons to distrust the SFA - some good and other perhaps not - but they have no impact on what's going on here. As to Celtic's right to ask for an explanation: I would ask if positions were reversed on the day would ICT fans not be demanding an explanation? I'm sure they would.

 

In the past these kinds of things were dealt with secfretly and privately and surely in this day and age football fans want to move-on into a more transparent approach to governing the game and ways to improve that process. ICT well deserved their victory on Sunday and deserve to be in the final.

 

IMO so does Josh Meekings - I simply don't care whether it was intentional or accidental although I do think it was a penalty and I don't believe none of the officials saw the incident. Whether they saw his hand hit the ball or 'saw' his face hit the ball or surmied it was his head that hit the ball I haven't a clue. But they - for whatever reason - appear to have taken a vow of Omerta.

 

Meekings, on the other hand, has been honest since the post-match interview in saying it struck his hand and admitting he was lucky. I admire they guy for that because he didn't fudge the question and told the truth. For that alone he deserves to be in the final!

 

celtic as a club have no axe to grind with the player or ICT - you have given us good games and the odd roasting and we value you as worthy opponents and good footballers and I would hate to think SFA manufactured nonsense and PR spin could create a rift between us. I'm sure it won't.

 

Celtic supporters solely have caused this entire sorry @ssed situation.

 

I have followed ICT since the 3rd division and experienced many, many highs and lows over the past 2 decades plus.

We have just reached our first ever Scottish Cup Final.  We played better on the day.  We merited our victory.  Even if we hadn't, and we had won the game with a lucky 89th minute own goal, the fact is we have just reached our first ever Scottish Cup Final. The feeling on Sunday was fantastic, one of the best I've had on my ICT journey - now?...

Now I'm just extremely angry at the whole pathetic shambles your fans have created.  A great feeling that should have lasted all week, ruined by your fans because they cannot accept that they were beaten.

 

Yes - the ref has messed up.  Yes - you should have had a penalty.

Was the handball deliberate?  Not for a second.

It's quite reasonable to believe that the linesman behind the goal thought the ball had hit Josh in the face/head.  And that is what he told the ref immediately.

Either way -  he was still wrong.

Unfair decisions have affected every club in Scotland.  Every club in Europe.  Every club in the world.  Yet your fans have to go out complaining it's not fair, and demand something happens.

And what has happened?

- An honest, young player has been thrust into the world media, received disgusting abuse and been made to feel like a cheat.  Josh is not a cheat.  It was handball - it was not deliberate.

- Our fans are left talking about this pathetic story rather than enjoying a fantastic achievement and an historic day in our clubs journey.

- Scottish football had been made to look even more ridiculous.

 

And who's caused this?

Your fans.  Your club.

Why?

Because you are nothing more than sore losers.

This entire sorry @ssed, pathetic, embarrassment has been caused by your fans and your club.

 

 

For years we've seen rangers claim they are too big for Scottish football - and now you're too big to lose in a cup game or to have a bad decision go against you?

Your fans have damaged the perception of your club throughout Scotland and further afield far worse than a bad officiating error has tarnished our game.

 

So you'll excuse me and many of my fellow football supporters if we don't meekly accept that you were right to do what you've done and if our club stands up for itself this time.

As far as this poster is concerned you can f**k off and leave the rest of us to get on with things - you've caused enough trouble as it is.

 

 

 

I now fully expect a warning or a ban from the mods for this rant.  That's a ban that's acceptable and won't be contested.

 

 

If I could multiple like this post I would. Brilliantly conveys the essence of what I think of this sorry episode ... apart from maybe the expletive at the end (which I can understand but not condone). Well said that man. 

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If Josh's case is admonished or he wins will Celtic pay our costs? plus compensation for stress and anxiety they have caused him.

 

According to STV Sport's piece on the whole affair, there is no cost to defending this - apparently it is different from appealing a red card (!?) The only cost would therefore be travel and I think club officals are at Hampden today anyway for discussions about the cup final. I think it should actually be the SFA that should pay Josh for "pain and suffering".

 

Not sure I know any lawyers that come free tbh??? You do wonder how some of these journalists have a job?

 

...in fairness to the journo - he/she only claims there is no fee due to SFA, so bughtmaster is right to point out that there will be legal costs (which are not mentioned at all in the piece).

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If Josh's case is admonished or he wins will Celtic pay our costs? plus compensation for stress and anxiety they have caused him.

 

According to STV Sport's piece on the whole affair, there is no cost to defending this - apparently it is different from appealing a red card (!?) The only cost would therefore be travel and I think club officals are at Hampden today anyway for discussions about the cup final. I think it should actually be the SFA that should pay Josh for "pain and suffering".

 

Not sure I know any lawyers that come free tbh??? You do wonder how some of these journalists have a job?

 

...in fairness to the journo - he/she only claims there is no fee due to SFA, so bughtmaster is right to point out that there will be legal costs (which are not mentioned at all in the piece).

 

Sorry read that wrong! Actually I think it still costs £500 to appeal a red card in any circumstances. Used to be £1000.

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I now fully expect a warning or a ban from the mods for this rant.  That's a ban that's acceptable and won't be contested.

 

Save your appeal fees ..... unlike the SFA we try to work with common sense and consistency here .... besides, as head of the CTO panel, I tend to agree with you  :wink:

 

 

The whole thing is an utter farce ! There's a fair few Celtic fans embarrassed by this, and I think we are being a bit harsh on our visitor here who appears to be somewhat rational and polite ..... but there are equally as many uttering death threats or ranting incoherently on social media and it is these 'eejits' who have caused this. Bottom line (to me) is that Celtic have tugged the forelock to a relatively small but viciously vociferous group of their fans who are going apoplectic over this, and the SFA have similarly rolled over for Celtic with a knee-jerk over-reaction to their so-called 'question'. They appear to want to throw their own officials and Josh Meekings under the bus to save face and to satiate these lunatics regardless of rules or precedent. Hell, forget rules or precedent, FIFA and the head of the referees says its a crock of horse**** and so does the Celtic manager ... why are we even discussing this? Hopefully it will all be resolved in the next hour or two ....  

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Celtic fans have many reasons to distrust the SFA - some good and other perhaps not - but they have no impact on what's going on here. As to Celtic's right to ask for an explanation: I would ask if positions were reversed on the day would ICT fans not be demanding an explanation? I'm sure they would.

 

Well let's think about this type of scenario for a moment.  In the League Cup Final last year, around about the 80th minute, Richie Foran attempted to head a cross from a corner kick towards the goal, but didn't get a strong enough head on it.  Replays showed that he was pulled back by an Aberdeen player.  Now using the Celtic Logic (that being that their crystal balls have told them beyond all doubt that it definitely would've been a red card, the penalty would've been scored and that there was no way ICT would come back from 2-0 down despite it happening twice before and once with ten men for a fair chunk of the match), that penalty would've been scored and with ten minutes left ICT would've ran the clock down and won the League Cup.  Sure we were disappointed that we never got it, but we accepted it and unfortunately didn't do the business and got beat.  Disappointed?  Yes.  Had the penalty been given, would things be different?  Probably.  Demand the club write a letter to the SFA and our fans indulge in some absolutely sickening abuse of the Aberdeen player who we can't we even remember which one it was?  No.  Using the Celtic Logic, it would be fair game, but we didn't.  Who cares about all the success Celtic have had.  In recent years, ICT have shown more class than your club ever will.

 

You say the Celtic fans are demanding answers.  Who cares?  They're nothing but bad losers and (as anyone who's ever looked at that crackpot blogger Phil Mac...Mac...Mac...whatever his name is will tell you) a sizeable chunk are thick as mince.  It's quite embarrassing that they've totally bowed down to them.  Of course though, it's all about money.  Thick-as-mince fans buy stuff and you wouldn't want to alienate your largest market...

 

Finally, you say Celtic have a number of reasons to distrust the SFA?  Why would that be?  Is that these crackpot conspiracies involving Masons, the Triads, UFOs and all the rest of it?  Utterly cringeworthy, with Celtic once again attempting to create a vehicle for their thick fans to vent their anger out.  I'll tell you this, I'd find it hard to support a club like that. Post of the year (sorry KingBeastie!)

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Celtic fans have many reasons to distrust the SFA - some good and other perhaps not - but they have no impact on what's going on here. As to Celtic's right to ask for an explanation: I would ask if positions were reversed on the day would ICT fans not be demanding an explanation? I'm sure they would.

 

Well let's think about this type of scenario for a moment.  In the League Cup Final last year, around about the 80th minute, Richie Foran attempted to head a cross from a corner kick towards the goal, but didn't get a strong enough head on it.  Replays showed that he was pulled back by an Aberdeen player.  Now using the Celtic Logic (that being that their crystal balls have told them beyond all doubt that it definitely would've been a red card, the penalty would've been scored and that there was no way ICT would come back from 2-0 down despite it happening twice before and once with ten men for a fair chunk of the match), that penalty would've been scored and with ten minutes left ICT would've ran the clock down and won the League Cup.  Sure we were disappointed that we never got it, but we accepted it and unfortunately didn't do the business and got beat.  Disappointed?  Yes.  Had the penalty been given, would things be different?  Probably.  Demand the club write a letter to the SFA and our fans indulge in some absolutely sickening abuse of the Aberdeen player who we can't we even remember which one it was?  No.  Using the Celtic Logic, it would be fair game, but we didn't.  Who cares about all the success Celtic have had.  In recent years, ICT have shown more class than your club ever will.

 

You say the Celtic fans are demanding answers.  Who cares?  They're nothing but bad losers and (as anyone who's ever looked at that crackpot blogger Phil Mac...Mac...Mac...whatever his name is will tell you) a sizeable chunk are thick as mince.  It's quite embarrassing that they've totally bowed down to them.  Of course though, it's all about money.  Thick-as-mince fans buy stuff and you wouldn't want to alienate your largest market...

 

Finally, you say Celtic have a number of reasons to distrust the SFA?  Why would that be?  Is that these crackpot conspiracies involving Masons, the Triads, UFOs and all the rest of it?  Utterly cringeworthy, with Celtic once again attempting to create a vehicle for their thick fans to vent their anger out.  I'll tell you this, I'd find it hard to support a club like that.

 

 

Another great post and good analogy.

A penalty for the Foran foul may well have secured the League Cup for ICT ... and we didn't make a song and dance of it ... or contact the SFA ... or villify the Aberdeen player (whoever he was because I can't remember either)

Noteable difference is that the Aberdeen player DELIBERATELY impeded/did enough to put off Foran.

By contrast, our Josh ACCIDENTLY handled because he was in such close proximity ... to a ball travelling quickly .... with his eyes closed .... looking the other way!!!

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