Compliance Officer / Justice for Meekings

[PerfICT]

Great news.

 

But I note that the outcome was described as the case having been dismissed whereas when Ciftci's appeal was successful the outcome was not proven.  Does this mean that the club's legal team argued successfully that the Notice of Complaint was not valid and therefore it was not actually put to a panel?  Either way, in line with the culture of openness that the SFA claim they operate in, I guess we will never know why the case was brought in the first case or why it was subsequently dismissed. 

 

I also note that Barry Robson was unsuccessful in his appeal.  I am really quite surprised at that but at least it means he won't be playing against us on Saturday

Quite right, DD. It sounds like the incident was in the ref's report and Muir said he thought it hit his head. On that basis, the compliance officer should not have taken this forward because the process is for incidents not seen. The finding was that it was an "honest mistake by the officials". Shambles!

[gingerjaggy]

Happy days and some actual common sense in Scottish football shock horror. Josh should not have been punished in the first place for the incompetency of the officials. So now that it is all happy we can move on and look forward to bringing on another day at Hampden and return the cup to the highlands for the first time 

[The Long Man]

Who's refereeing the final? And will our defenders have to be extra careful with their arms? The SFA will be so keen to avoid any more dispute that something tells me he will be whistle happy   Better strap you arms to your sides, lads 

Edited April 23, 2015 by The Long Man

[Kingsmills]

I was surprised but pleased that the independent panel had the guts, integrity and common sense to bring this farce to an end.

 

However, as for the officials, we need to take a long hard look at who is administering our game and how it's administered.

 

Leaving aside the motivation for raising this matter in the first place, the great and the good running our game failed to anticipate the scorn and derision rightly directed at our game for being the only national association in the World to take this course just as they failed to anticipate, until very recently, that constantly talking down and belittling the game in this country would deter potential blue chip sponsors just a tad and just as they failed to anticipate that we fans would feel beyond aggrieved by the plan to parachute the Rangers Newco straight into the SPL.

 

The likes of Jim Farry and Ernie Walker had their faults and idiosyncrasies but well regarded and respected internationally and, as a result, so was Scottish football. The current CEOs of both the SFA and the League are, with justification, seen in a much poorer light and, as a consequence, so is our game.

 

The Meekings farce is just the latest symptom of this long running malaise and it must surely be time for change at the very top of both structures.

 

Surely it's time now for change...

[Scarlet Pimple]

It's just another reason why goal line cameras are a much needed adjunct to the way  in which questionable incidents are handled to allow football to measure up to the excellent, stringent standards applicable in the very fast National Hockey League in North America.

 

They use a camera above and to the sides of the goal line so dubiety is rarely if ever an issue. The refs are also in direct contact with the NHL supervisors in Toronto by direct telephone line for a decision on what the outcome is on any contested goal.

That takes the onus off the refs on the ice, everybody is satisfied and, once the decision is rendered, the matter is done and dusted within a minute or so.

 

No further appeals are needed or made and that's the end of it. On with the game.

 

Fantastic system and everybody in the kingdom can see the camera angles and so forth immediately.

 

That's the electronic age for you and isn't it time that Scottish football introduced cameras?

[Laurence]

I was surprised but pleased that the independent panel had the guts, integrity and common sense to bring this farce to an end.

 

However, as for the officials, we need to take a long hard look at who is administering our game and how it's administered.

 

Leaving aside the motivation for raising this matter in the first place, the great and the good running our game failed to anticipate the scorn and derision rightly directed at our game for being the only national association in the World to take this course just as they failed to anticipate, until very recently, that constantly talking down and belittling the game in this country would deter potential blue chip sponsors just a tad and just as they failed to anticipate that we fans would feel beyond aggrieved by the plan to parachute the Rangers Newco straight into the SPL.

 

The likes of Jim Farry and Ernie Walker had their faults and idiosyncrasies but well regarded and respected internationally and, as a result, so was Scottish football. The current CEOs of both the SFA and the League are, with justification, seen in a much poorer light and, as a consequence, so is our game.

 

The Meekings farce is just the latest symptom of this long running malaise and it must surely be time for change at the very top of both structures.

 

Surely it's time now for change...

 

 

I agree with the above in its entirety

 

I noticed in this mornings Times  a statement from a FIFA official which may have helped  The whole statement is not in the link because you have to take out a subscription

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/scotland/article4419858.ece

 

I mentioned earlier  posts the ramifications of hearings like this but I am quite surprised that FIFA picked up on it so quickly, I wonder if it helped behind the scenes

 

Below is another link I did not read in hard copy

 

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/other-football/fifa-referees-chief-criticises-sfa-decision-over-josh-meekings-204293n.123977581

 

I also read in the Times the following comment, so why did Celtic get involved?

 

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/318148-celtic-boss-ronny-deila-hopes-josh-meekings-can-play-in-scottish-cup-final/

Edited April 23, 2015 by Laurence

[12th Man]

Well chuffed to hear the good news.

We can get back to all the positivity that's been created from our Successful Hampden muster.

[RiG]

Surprised but very happy that Meekings is free to play. I can only guess that the panel came to a conclusion along the lines of either the handball itself wasn't deliberate and therefore he didn't deliberately stop a goal scoring opportunity or that there was no clear goal scoring opportunity present. Unless the verdict and any supporting information is released we will likely never know.

[IBM]

Just great although I am just a wee bit surprised at the outcome, I wonder what the papers will be saying tomorrow!  The one good thing for Josh is he is world famous now  I hope can relax now and enjoy the remainder of the season including the final.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Roll on Hampden on the 30 May. ..AND the huge cheer as Josh Meekings runs out onto the park...............

[Yngwie]

The one good thing for Josh is he is world famous now

 

He could emulate Jean-Marc Bosman in becoming synonymous with a certain situation.

 

Fan 1: "Is Smithy not suspended for this week's game?"

Fan 2: "Nah, he's available on a Meekings."

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

So the officials did see it. It looks like we have a compliance officer who is unable to follow his own protocols.

The raising of this notice of complaint looks like a sop to appease Celtic.

That said, I am mightily relieved, and not a little surprised, to have Meekings available for the final.

[cif73]

Vincent Lunny (ex-compliance officer) is on BBC Sport website questioning the dismissal and defending his successor Anthony McGlennan in raising the Meekings complaint.

Surfing the internet and it seems that Lunny is a Celtic fan and McGlennan is/was a Celtic season ticket-holder ... anyone know for definite if this is true?

If so, you couldn't make this s$#@ up lol!

[bauhaus]

It's just another reason why goal line cameras are a much needed adjunct to the way  in which questionable incidents are handled to allow football to measure up to the excellent, stringent standards applicable in the very fast National Hockey League in North America.

 

They use a camera above and to the sides of the goal line so dubiety is rarely if ever an issue. The refs are also in direct contact with the NHL supervisors in Toronto by direct telephone line for a decision on what the outcome is on any contested goal.

That takes the onus off the refs on the ice, everybody is satisfied and, once the decision is rendered, the matter is done and dusted within a minute or so.

 

No further appeals are needed or made and that's the end of it. On with the game.

 

Fantastic system and everybody in the kingdom can see the camera angles and so forth immediately.

 

That's the electronic age for you and isn't it time that Scottish football introduced cameras?

You have the wrong end of the stick in this one Scarlet, cameras were not needed to see if the ball went over the line, it was about two yards short of that. Progress has been made with FIFA and UEFA etc now allowing goal line cameras for questionable goals / non goal decisions in the leagues that can afford to use the technology. Technology with officials using camera replays etc at games will come, however, if they were present at Hampden last weekend may have reduced the chance we will be in our first Scottish Cup final, but we could have still won 3-2 with 10 men - we will just never know

[bauhaus]

John Hughes might do Josh a wee favor by omitting him from the squad in the last game of the season. Just for the one game, as we will need to protect young Josh from Injury. As it would be just like Celtic to make a hero out of the player who does keep Josh out of the final, and for them having probably already won the league they might think playing the last game with ten men worthwhile for their conspiracy chipped shouldered fans to get their perceived revenge. Would not trust the likes of Scott Brown trying to break his legs, or give him a Durrant style knee.

 

As the final is the following week, all our players will need to be on high alert for the revenge tackle to injure our players and lessen our chances against Falkirk. We've already had a dislocated knee against them, and that was accidental. If we have beaten the Arabs to 3rd, I would give the under 20s a taste of Parkhead 

[Scotty]

Vincent Lunny (ex-compliance officer) is on BBC Sport website questioning the dismissal and defending his successor Anthony McGlennan in raising the Meekings complaint.

Surfing the internet and it seems that Lunny is a Celtic fan and McGlennan is/was a Celtic season ticket-holder ... anyone know for definite if this is true?

If so, you couldn't make this s$#@ up lol!

 

All I could find was the fact he is/was a Man Utd season ticket holder and that he is involved in Amateur League football as a volunteer ....

[Kingsmills]

Vincent Lunny (ex-compliance officer) is on BBC Sport website questioning the dismissal and defending his successor Anthony McGlennan in raising the Meekings complaint.

Surfing the internet and it seems that Lunny is a Celtic fan and McGlennan is/was a Celtic season ticket-holder ... anyone know for definite if this is true?

If so, you couldn't make this s$#@ up lol!

Can we please leave the paranoia and  conspiracy theories to Celtic and other Ugly Sister. No conspiracy just yet another c#ck up by the Scottish football authorities.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Kingsmills

[Huisdean]

Now that this has been sorted out, correctly in my view, it is time to look at who are the real villians in this matter. For me it is the SFA. If, as reported, the officials did not see the handball incident clearly enough to be sure it struck a hand, they cannot give a penalty, end of story. As I have said before, there is no conclusive TV footage that gives the view from the referee or his assistant so to use TV footage to try and retrospectively ban a player is a very gig step to take and a wrong one in my opinion. People will say the referee made a mistake on this but again, in my view he has not as he cannot be sure it was handball from where he saw the incident. That really should have been the end of the matter but the SFA, who are the real villians in this wanted a scapegoat to appease the Celtic support.

 

How difficult would it have been for the SFA to say that "referee or assistants, from their viewpoint, did not see a handball and could not give a penalty". I do feel for the officials in this game now as they have been hung out to dry by a spineless SFA.

 

Finally, and this is really lazy journalism, if this citing could have happened since the rules were introduced, why did someone not ask Vincent Lunny why he had not raised a case before as don't for one minute think this has not happened previously. Lunny was constantly stating rules are the rules, clubs are aware of them and citing perfectly valid so why had this not happend before. Not wanting to start a conspiracy theory but you can draw your own conclusions.

[+DoofersDad]

You don't need any internet trawl to know that Lunny is a complete t*sser.  BBC article here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32442417

 

He thinks the most likely reason Josh was successful was because the panel felt sympathetic or were confused.  (I'm sure that will go down well with the panel.)  The confusion element stems from the fact that whilst the officials may have seen the incident, they did not see the offence and therefore the panel may have wrongly thrown the case out because they thought that as the officials had seen the incident, it was not actually a matter for the panel.  On the radio he said a 3rd option was that they did not see the handball as deliberate but that having seen the footage he would think that was the least likely explanation.

 

He then goes on to defend the new Compliance Officer for bringing the case on the grounds that failing to do so would have set a dangerous precedent.   No footballer anywhere in the world has ever been retrospectively punished by their FA for handball and yet Lunny thinks that not punishing Josh would be a dangerous precedent!  And was he therefore not setting dangerous precedents week after week himself by failing to bring a single similar case to a tribunal when he was Compliance Officer?  What planet is the guy living on?

 

Justice has been done and now there is an urgent need for some serious review of the shambolic state of the SFA

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

Just listened to last night's Sportsound podcast and Lunny came across as a pretty bitter tw@t.

And don't get me started on Richard Wilson!

Edited April 24, 2015 by HawkeyeTheGnu

[Kingsmills]

Just listened to last night's Sportsound podcast and Lunny came across as a pretty bitter tw@t.

And don't get me started on Richard Wilson!

Richard Wilson....I don't believe it.......!

[cif73]

 

Vincent Lunny (ex-compliance officer) is on BBC Sport website questioning the dismissal and defending his successor Anthony McGlennan in raising the Meekings complaint.

Surfing the internet and it seems that Lunny is a Celtic fan and McGlennan is/was a Celtic season ticket-holder ... anyone know for definite if this is true?

If so, you couldn't make this s$#@ up lol!

Can we please leave the paranoia and  conspiracy theories to Celtic and other Ugly Sister. No conspiracy just yet another c#ck up by the Scottish football authorities.

 

 

Duly noted. I don't like delving into stuff like this but if we don't learn from history we are bound to repeat it. They are Glasgow lawyers with an interest in football who happened to become compliance officers. They seem to be standing resolutely by the view that the ****-up is the original ref decision (rather than the aftermath). Now it may be loyalty between friends or pride talking but the vast majority of the non-Ceptic speaking world seemed to hold our view of the Meekings handball incident. If people are so dogged in their view in the face of opposition (including FIFA), then one is inclined to wonder about their underlying frame of reference or world/football view. Website posts about their club loyalty pre-dated Meekings (albeit mainly Rangers posts I grant you). The recent examples of celebrities spectacularly falling from grace serves to show that although we certainly don't want to throw ourselves into paranoia or conspiracy, it is clear that we live in a world where face value isn't always the whole story. 

[izzy]

Vincent Lunny (ex-compliance officer) is on BBC Sport website questioning the dismissal and defending his successor Anthony McGlennan in raising the Meekings complaint.

Surfing the internet and it seems that Lunny is a Celtic fan and McGlennan is/was a Celtic season ticket-holder ... anyone know for definite if this is true?

If so, you couldn't make this s$#@ up lol!

If true no surprises there .

[PerfICT]

This will rumble on because of the incompetence of the SFA throughout, but this will be my last word on it:

 

The SFA's handling of the whole thing from the sound of the final whistle on Sunday has been pathetically weak and short-sighted (excuse the pun, given the vision impairment of the officials!) Once the graceless eejits at Celtic had decided to lay the blame for their defeat on everybody else bar themselves, a firm decision should have been made to shut the whole thing down so as not to undermine the authority of officials on or off the pitch. Something along the lines of "The referee's decision is final. Mistakes that are made by officials will be dealt with through our standard processes. This will be dealt with in the same way as every other incident of this nature.The end."

 

Instead, the CO became involved, subsequent to the receipt of a whinging letter from Celtic FC to appease a sizeable proportion of their support who were hell-bent on blaming SFA links to Rangers for the defeat!!!! Another opportunity was missed to close the whole case down and instead the SFA sets a worldwide precedent and takes the case to the panel amidst global condemnation. Now they're in a real stooshie because the issue of whether the officials saw/didn't see the incident/offence of deliberate/accidental handball is scrutinised in every detail. Now the outcome can only end in humiliation for the SFA:

 

(a) 6 officals did not see the incident and are therefore either blind or biased

(b) the officials saw the incident but believed it to be acciental, in which case it shouldn't have got through the CO (who must therefore be bised/incompetent)

© the officials saw the incident, but thought it hit his head, in which case they'd have to take the unprecedented step (worldwide) of banning Josh and facing the wrath of FIFA for setting the precedent

 

The outcome looks to me to be a bit of a fudge, which opens the door for the Celtic mob to continue crying about SFA bias.

 

That's what you get for being spineless!

[bauhaus]

Now that this has been sorted out, correctly in my view, it is time to look at who are the real villians in this matter. For me it is the SFA. If, as reported, the officials did not see the handball incident clearly enough to be sure it struck a hand, they cannot give a penalty, end of story. As I have said before, there is no conclusive TV footage that gives the view from the referee or his assistant so to use TV footage to try and retrospectively ban a player is a very gig step to take and a wrong one in my opinion. People will say the referee made a mistake on this but again, in my view he has not as he cannot be sure it was handball from where he saw the incident. That really should have been the end of the matter but the SFA, who are the real villians in this wanted a scapegoat to appease the Celtic support.

 

How difficult would it have been for the SFA to say that "referee or assistants, from their viewpoint, did not see a handball and could not give a penalty". I do feel for the officials in this game now as they have been hung out to dry by a spineless SFA.

 

Finally, and this is really lazy journalism, if this citing could have happened since the rules were introduced, why did someone not ask Vincent Lunny why he had not raised a case before as don't for one minute think this has not happened previously. Lunny was constantly stating rules are the rules, clubs are aware of them and citing perfectly valid so why had this not happend before. Not wanting to start a conspiracy theory but you can draw your own conclusions.

 

It was reported on Monday or even Sunday night that the ref had consulted the goal-line assistant and linesman as to the incident with Josh. He did not see it clearly to award a foul, the goal-line assistant though it hit Josh's head, and the linesman didn't see it. That was as clear as day, they mis-interperated what happened, but did consider it could have been an offence but ruled it out as none of them knew for sure. The tv pictures show the incident clearly, but you cannot tell if he tries to save the header, you normally have your eyes open if you try to save a shot or header. It was certainly not intentional.

 

I do remember an 'incident' earlier this season, at Kilmarnock, but can't remember who the opposition were, but it wasn't Celtic, may have been the Dons or Well. Player unsighted from ref and linesman, raised his hand and saved a shot from 8-10 yards or so. No question about being accidental, or to close to avoid, he saved it like a keeper. No penalty, and it was near the end of the game. I can remember Sportscene making a feature about it. Conclusive tv showing the player raising his hand to his right and palming the ball off the line. No Complience Officer involved for what was an unquestionable deliberate handball. That would have set a precident for the after the incident retrospective handball, not to raise it when it was extremely questionable because it was against Celtic.

 

I do hope that the Celtic players and management after this are men, and do not lay out a Roy Keane, Graeme Souness or Scott Brown style of vengence in their last game of the domestic season.