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Performance of SNP MPs in Westminster


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1 hour ago, Alex MacLeod said:

Jings, crivvens, helpmaboab!!!! Where DO you start with this prime insight into how the cerebrally challenged were enticed in their droves to place their X against Yes?

As far as I can see, the link in question is to an article which simply says that the GTA game grossed nearly $2 billion worldwide, if you accept a fairly generous estimate of the selling price. And that's it. No mention of Scotland. No mention of oil. So, to devine what Alex is trying to delude us into believing, you then have to embark on some detective and guesswork to help him make his "case" a bit clearer.

Now I am GUESSING that the link here may be the Nationalist Caledonian Republic of Dundee where, in this post-Beano and Dandy era, they are big on developing computer games, hence Dundee may have had some input into developing GTA.

So, despite not actually stating the value of North Sea oil duty to the UK economy, I am guessing that Alex is hoping to persuade us that, possibly over two related but unspecified time periods, but possibly (probably?) not, these revenues are less than the gross worldwide sales of GTA.....QED!!!!!

Now of course, I am merely GUESSING here by way of stating Alex's case on his behalf. But then, of course, you take away from this magic $2bn the profit margins which go to retailers world wide, to various middle men, to the company that owns the game, the manufacturers (if the thing isn't actually made in Scotland) etc and you're really not left with much. This is largely because the only other Scottish connection is that the game was DEVELOPED in Dundee, which I suspect Alex is trying to equate with gross worldwide sales. (Smilies unfortunately unavailable on my computer.)

Now if, in the absence of information from Alex to the contrary, I have wrongly guessed the origins of his attempt to persuade us that a mouse is bigger than an elephant, I can only apologise. However this is the best I can do to help him out in this latest classic Nationalist effort to exploit the gullible and the naïve with unsupported and erroneous assertions.

Never mid Alex. You have probably supplied the SNP with their very next item of vacuous sloganising....

IT'S SCOTLAND'S GRAND THEFT AUTO!

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The article Alex cited certainly doesn't remotely support his statement and I too would be interested to see if there is anything else forthcoming.  I think a retraction rather than a citation would be more in order.

Perhaps the statement came from the SNP's fantasy economics briefing document which was used in the 2015 edition of the game "Grand Theft Election"?  It is certainly the kind of thing that works well with the SNP's social media one liner strategy.

Scottish Government figures state that "in 2011/12 oil and gas production in Scottish waters is estimated to have generated £10.6 billion in tax revenue".  A recent Telegraph article states that the entire UK games development sector contributes approximately £1 billion to the UK GDP per year - and bear in mind that in the UK tax income is approximately 40% of GDP.

There is no doubting that the games industry in Scotland is very successful, but tax revenues from it are chicken feed compared to historical revenues from oil and gas production.

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Perhaps Alex was taking the whimsical ramblings of one (far from disinterested) entrepreneur as a 'fact'.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/business/business-science-technology/tech-entrepreneur-believes-scotlands-game-6665250

This games website, from last year, estimated the games industry in Scotland to be worth £30 million annually. (paragraph 2)
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2014/09/05/scottish-independence-and-how-it-could-affect-the-games-industry/comment-page-2/

And that figure is largely consistent with a Scottish Affairs Committee - Video games industry in Scotland. (page number 5 of the document)
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmscotaf/500/500i.pdf

Including DD's figures, and accounting for the relationship between GDP and actual tax revenue - plus Scotland's size relative to the UK; the figures from different sources are consistent enough to give a ballpark figure in the region of £30million for the computer games industry in Scotland.

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1 hour ago, DoofersDad said:

 It is certainly the kind of thing that works well with the SNP's social media one liner strategy.

There is no doubting that the games industry in Scotland is very successful, but tax revenues from it are chicken feed compared to historical revenues from oil and gas production.

.... which in turn were never the Crock of Gold the SNP incessantly for years insisted they were - until now when it's been made obvious, even to some of their voters, that they are not..... prompting the SNP into a panic U-turn on their long term flagship soapbox.

And yes.... social media one-liners indeed, because they are fully aware of the sector of the electorate they have been after by keeping it simple like this. The strange thing is that even to be allowed to drive a car, for the safety of others you first have to be able to demonstrate an understanding of what's involved. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to apply to voting - because if it did, the SNP certainly wouldn't be banging on either about the 45 or the 55.

But there's more addition I'm also certain that the people who make up this kind of simplistic bilge to con the uninitiated are now themselves actually believing their own one liners!

So go on Alex! No-one with an ounce of critical thought in them is going to believe transparent nonsense like that. Retract!!

#ITSSCOTLANDSGRANDTHEFTAUTO@SNP.ORG.CALEDONIA

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16 minutes ago, Sneckboy said:

 a ballpark figure in the region of £30million for the computer games industry in Scotland.

But the guy in the Record article speaks about oil becoming a "drop in the ocean" compared with computer games.

Come to think of it.... the way oil revenues are going, he's probably right!

The Nats really are squirming over their flagship policy of the last 40 year going well and truly bellyup.

#ITSSCOTLANDSGRANDTHEFTAUTO@SNP.ORG.CALEDONIA

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Some people, especially those who keep harping on about oil price, are missing the point. The point I'm trying to make is that there is a lot of prosperous developments in Scotland. GTA was used as an example but the gaming industry in Scotland, which accounts for 25% of all UK gaming hubs, is highly successful and rapidly expanding, whereas the oil is depleting and, although we gross a reasonable income from oil we also put a lot of that income back into the NS in way of subsidies and tax breaks for ageing facilities.

GTA5 is estimated to gross in excess of $2 billion. Thats only one of the hundreds of successful games being developed across the UK. Believing CB's constant gripe then NS revenues are going to plummet so yes earnings from GTA will exceed those of oil.

Of course none of that really matters because there wont be another independance vote. Instead we'll be dragged out of europe and become an insular group of islands struggling to trade with the world.

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1 hour ago, Alex MacLeod said:

The point I'm trying to make is that there is a lot of prosperous developments in Scotland. GTA was used as an example but the gaming industry in Scotland, which accounts for 25% of all UK gaming hubs, is highly successful and rapidly expanding,

Fair enough but the point others are making is that despite all the commercial successes that have a Scottish connection, gaming contributes diddly squat to our economy. Last time I looked this sector only employed 1,000 people in Scotland and contributed a mere £100m to our GDP - a small fraction of what Faslane puts in, for example. Sneckboy is probably about right about gaming putting £30m into the public purse here, but it also benefits hugely from grants, with the result that some people say it actually contributes nothing overall.  The $2bn gross is irrelevant as all that money goes elsewhere. In the case of GTA, it doesn't help us that the publishing rights and profits from the game are held by Rockstar North's parent company in the USA. 

Incidentally I once came very close to taking a job with David Jones, the game's creator, on a new venture. A narrow escape, as that project went tits up a year or two later. In actual fact many of the 200 or so people who lost their jobs were just contracted in from the USA or Far East specifically to work on the new game and just went home when they were made redundant.

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7 hours ago, Alex MacLeod said:

GTA5 is estimated to gross in excess of $2 billion. Thats only one of the hundreds of successful games being developed across the UK. Believing CB's constant gripe then NS revenues are going to plummet so yes earnings from GTA will exceed those of oil.

 

I take it from this that you now accept:-

a) that the projection for oil and gas revenues which the SNP used to bribe people in the referendum was spectacularly wrong

and

b) that your previous statement that "Grand Theft Auto generated more income for Scotland in the last few years than oil has done at its highest price" was also spectacularly wrong.

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Whilst attention is focused on the SNP rabble at Westminster, the SNP government at Holyrood slip through almost unnoticed, policy which demonstrates what an illiberal, reactionary and just plain incompetent administration they are.  For instance, back in August they introduced a blanket ban on GM crops against all the available evidence.  Willie Rennie drew attention to this in a speech this week and it is illuminating to read what he had to say.  I quote.

 

"It is patently obvious that we should adopt an evidence-based policy on genetic engineering and biotechnologies.

However, in August the Scottish Government took advantage of a new EU opt-out and introduced a blanket ban on GM crops.

The Environment Secretary justified it as protecting Scotland’s “clean and green brand”.

But it isn’t clear on what evidence, if any, this decision was made. The Parliament didn’t take evidence on a ban or sign up to it.

It is illiberal to ban something on the basis of perception, rather than evidence.

What kind of message does this send to the scientific community here in Scotland and beyond? How does this help the likes of the James Hutton and Rowett institutes – world leaders in this sector? It suggests Scotland is closed for business.

The ban has been criticised by Edinburgh, Robert Gordon and Dundee universities and organisations from the Royal Society of Edinburgh to NFU Scotland.

The head of the Scottish Science Advisory Council, which wasn’t consulted either, said there are “no examples of adverse consequences” and that GM crops are kinder to the environment as they reduce the need for pesticides.

The last Chief Scientific Advisor for Scotland, Professor Muffy Calder, said it could have “apocalyptic” consequences, leaving key cash crops such as potatoes, soft fruits and barley – essential for our whisky – more susceptible to disease.

She said the ban was based on “fear of the unknown” and some “unscrupulous articles in the very early days about potential health risks”. A damning indictment.

Her predecessor, Professor Anne Glover, also said it was “not possible to equate ‘clean and green’ with anti-GM” and described Scotland’s failure to use the best available EU-approved technology as “a missed opportunity”.

Far from protecting Scotland’s reputation the Scottish Government is undermining it.  Just like those who questioned Isaac Newton and Charles Darwin, ministers are indulging in an anti-science philosophy.

You would expect ministers to at least have consulted their current Chief Scientific Advisor. The only problem is, they haven’t had one for the last 11 months. The post has lain vacant since December 2014. That says it all."

 

  As Rennie says, "That says it all".  Policy founded on discredited but popular prejudice rather than best evidence is no way to run a country. 

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Nicola Sturgeon is on Radio 4's Desert Island Discs at 11.15 this morning.
I wonder if she'll select a tongue-in-cheek "I Want To Break Free"?! :lol:
- perhaps not, as it's a song from...Queen!

20.jpg.2e25e7d74194d29f04053a8093beaf1e.

Edited by Sneckboy
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People are trying in posts above to carry on the pointless argument about the finances of Scotland

I would ask the Nationalists to put to bed all these worn out arguments and face reality.

Which is

1) Scotland  Has a broken oil industry , which is totally at the mercy of a Saudi driven policy of breaking the back of foreign competition

2) Scotland has a broken Steel industry broken by foreign steel imports. ( I am told that all the steel on the new bridge over the Forth is imported ?

3) Scotland is now a gross importer of Electrical  Power from stations in England

 4) Unemployment in this country is the only part of the United Kingdom which is rising

5) Scotland is now totally dependant on the financial contribution from the treasury in London

6) there would be with a Yes vote mass unemployment in areas of Glasgow where Trident is stationed  had the yes vote had suceeded

I shudder to think of the turmoil we would be in if the Yes vote had prevailed.

Trying to set up a new nation, currency, civil service embassies and the like in this political climate. It really is a no brainer  that Scotland is much more better off with the No vote

So lets stop all this nonsense still being peddled by rampant Nationalists  and go forward.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Alex MacLeod said:

And of course Scotland was the only country to ban GM

The fact that some other countries have also banned GM crops does not justify the introduction of a policy which is illiberal, reactionary and not evidence based.  Nor does it justify the autocratic way in which the decision was made.

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Laurence, this publication, unless something drastic has happened to Scotlands electricity generation in recent months, suggests your point 3 to be absolute drivel. http://www.4coffshore.com/windfarms/scotland-exports-28%2525-electricity-nid1098.html

Point 2. See para 4. in this publication http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/steel-suppliers-announced-new-forth-crossing

Scottish steel did not bid because they dont have capacity for amount of steel required, a legacy of Thatchers hatchet. Even if the existing steelworks are saved from closure they will never be able to supply at competitive rates and in vast amounts due to the closing of the coal mines and coking facilities, again a legacy of Thatcher, and the need to import all required iron ore and coke.

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The drastic thing that has happened is that Longannet is to close early next year.  That will remove a massive amount of Scotland's generating capacity and with the SNP strongly against replacing the aging nuclear stations, it is clear that Scotland will face a real problem in a few years time.  It is great that the government have a positive approach to renewables but renewables are highly dependent on the weather and cannot give the guaranteed base load that nuclear and fossil fuels can.  We therefore urgently need a more coordinated energy strategy.  Scotland is currently a net exporter of electricity as a result of the investments by previous UK governments.  The SNP's lack of a realistic energy strategy will mean we will soon be a net importer of electricity.  For such an energy rich country, that really is quite shameful.

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2 hours ago, Alex MacLeod said:

Scottish steel did not bid because they dont have capacity for amount of steel required

But the Scottish Government could have broken down the steel requirement into a greater number of smaller contracts to enable Scottish firms to compete. But they chose not to. And then, in the next breath, they criticise the UK government for not having done enough to protect our steel industry. 

Yet another example of staggering hypocrisy from the SNP. Meanwhile, their blind followers swallow it all unquestioningly and continue to believe that everything is Westminster's fault.

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3 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

The drastic thing that has happened is that Longannet is to close early next year.  That will remove a massive amount of Scotland's generating capacity and with the SNP strongly against replacing the aging nuclear stations, it is clear that Scotland will face a real problem in a few years time.  It is great that the government have a positive approach to renewables but renewables are highly dependent on the weather and cannot give the guaranteed base load that nuclear and fossil fuels can.  We therefore urgently need a more coordinated energy strategy.  Scotland is currently a net exporter of electricity as a result of the investments by previous UK governments.  The SNP's lack of a realistic energy strategy will mean we will soon be a net importer of electricity.  For such an energy rich country, that really is quite shameful.

Not completely true DD. Longannet lost contract to supply National Grid in favour of Peterhead. Yes there is a reduction in generating capacity but we still have more capacity than requirement. Power stations do not generate at maximum constantly simply because theres no way of storing and, instead, balance output on demand.

It might actually surprise you the strategy thats in place for electricity generation. There are a few new hydro projects in the offing including a couple of large scale pumped storage units at Invermoriston and Loch Lochy. Pumped storage facilities are not weather dependant simply because they allow water from a high storage point to drive turbines and then collect in lower  storage area. During off peak times the water is pumped back up to the high storage point.

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  1. You can all bury your heads in the sand, and believe the nonsense , but the bottom line is Scotland cannot afford to break away. The country is sucking in imports at an unbelievable rate. Just go in any big store in Inverness and see what is manufactured in Scotland. The answer is  virtually nothing of consequence, nothing but biscuits and whisky. my last journey to England in 10 minutes on the motorway I counted 50 trucks bringing goods to Scotland.. The Scottish balance of payments deficit is enormous. The cost of which is supported by the Bank Of England and the treasury. Something that would be lost if the Nationalist had their way.

All I read on here is wishful thinking and semantics. Wood and trees come to mind.

Just stop making minor debatable points and wake up to reality.

Edited by Laurence
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4 hours ago, Alex MacLeod said:

Not completely true DD. Longannet lost contract to supply National Grid in favour of Peterhead. Yes there is a reduction in generating capacity but we still have more capacity than requirement. Power stations do not generate at maximum constantly simply because theres no way of storing and, instead, balance output on demand.

It might actually surprise you the strategy thats in place for electricity generation. There are a few new hydro projects in the offing including a couple of large scale pumped storage units at Invermoriston and Loch Lochy. Pumped storage facilities are not weather dependant simply because they allow water from a high storage point to drive turbines and then collect in lower  storage area. During off peak times the water is pumped back up to the high storage point.

Actually Alex, the strategy doesn't surprise me at all as I'm reasonably  familiar with it.  The strategy is basically to have 100% equivalent generating capacity in Scotland down to renewables by 2020.  This sounds fine, but works only as long as the current single UK market works.  In the event of an independent Scotland there is an assumption that this single market would still operate, but in the event that it didn't, Scotland would be vulnerable when the wind doesn't blow.  The lion's share of the renewable generating capacity is wind power and the 2020 target assumes that 12.5 of a total of 14.7GW renewables capacity will be wind turbines.  The total capacity from Hydro is projected to be only 1.6GW by 2020 and therefore could only replace a fraction of the wind capacity.  Bear in mind also that pumped storage systems can only deliver at their capacity for a few hours before there's no water left.

It is debatable whether the renewables target will be met, but even if it is, Scotland will continue to be dependent on English baseload generation when the wind is not blowing.  It really is a case of "better together" as far as security of electricity supplies is concerned.

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I wonder if the SNP would be demanding Britain get permission from the UN to attack I S , if  for Paris we were to  read Glasgow?

UK is a sovereign state, Can do as it sees fit, not dance to the UN tune

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I see the intrepid delegation of SNP amongst others , are to bring up the cost of Trident once again

From what I can see the costs are greatly exaggerated for political advantage

The real costs to the treasury are nowhere near the estimates of CND or the SNP or the Labour leader

look at this link

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/cost_trident_nuclear_deterrent-28864

You deduct from those costs the taxes paid by people involved in the programme., i.e Income tax for people, Corporation tax for companies, and an element of VAT for suppliers of engineering components.

You can also allow for an increase in conventional submarine's that would have to be built to provide a non nuclear defence strategy. To protect shipping, and to afford an element of deterrence.

You can also factor in welfare payments to people involved with Trident should they be made unemployed.

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I along with many of my friends have had enough of this whole SNP thing, if anything it has taken power away from us as the only votes that have counted are those for tories and labour, and as scots we have taken away our vote contribution and as much of scotland is better off with labour then scotland has really shot itslef in the foot by taking those Scottish labour mp out of parliament, unless we change our votes back, tories will dominate for decades

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17 minutes ago, phil38 said:

I along with many of my friends have had enough of this whole SNP thing, if anything it has taken power away from us as the only votes that have counted are those for tories and labour, and as scots we have taken away our vote contribution and as much of scotland is better off with labour then scotland has really shot itslef in the foot by taking those Scottish labour mp out of parliament, unless we change our votes back, tories will dominate for decades

Some punctuation, including sentences and the odd capital letter wouldn't go amiss. Seems, thankfully, according to the polls, that you and your many friends are in the minority.

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