matchday thread Inverness CT -V- Motherwell

[ICTRoughi]

Hearing that Gary Warren's injury is a bad one, probably a broken leg.

If that's true (and I very much hope it is not), then we urgently need to bring in a defender - maybe a loanee from England until January.

Not so sure that'd be necessary. We have Devine, Wedderburn, Draper, Jason Brown all capable of filling in at centre back. A left back should be more a priority. 

Tremarco

Fair point however we still need to have another natural left back to replace Shinnie so that situations like today don't happen again. 

[Guest]

I'm not sure how that would happen. When a challenge takes place in a game is completely irrelevant to the punishment received. Anyway, Warrens challenge on McDonald clearly wasn't a case of SFP.

Referees are very rarely going to send someone off so early in the game. The timing should be irrelevant, but I think some refs know they'll be criticised if they kill the game as a contest so early so will lessen the punishment.  It looked a very bad tackle from the Main Stand.

The Warren tackle just looked like he hung his leg out and tripped McDonald which is very different from what Pearson looked to have done.

Hope this rumour about a broken leg is just that. He tried to walk on it but had to give up after a couple of steps. Could he do that on a broken leg? 

I'm not sure how that would happen. When a challenge takes place in a game is completely irrelevant to the punishment received. Anyway, Warrens challenge on McDonald clearly wasn't a case of SFP.

Referees are very rarely going to send someone off so early in the game. The timing should be irrelevant, but I think some refs know they'll be criticised if they kill the game as a contest so early so will lessen the punishment.  It looked a very bad tackle from the Main Stand.

The Warren tackle just looked like he hung his leg out and tripped McDonald which is very different from what Pearson looked to have done.

No, he piled through him, might be shown in the highlights.

Let's just hope Meekings' injury isn't bad otherwise we are truly effed. 

[+DoofersDad]

Yogi was saying during the week and in the program notes that it would be wrong for fans to have unrealistic expectations about matching last season's achievements.  Perhaps this was a deliberately poor performance just to make sure nobody is expecting too much?

[Renegade]

A vile performance this afternoon.  Out-thought and out-fought by Motherwell.  They looked fitter and far more organised, both offensively and defensively than we did.  Do we do any attacking movement training at all?

Simply, we were ghastly.  It's a long time since I've seen a performance so poor as that.  To not create any clear cut chances at all against a team, who even by today's standards were no great shakes, is shocking.  Do we actually want to attack?  Today seemed like one big ball retention exercise.....and a poor one at that.  A massive contrast to Motherwell.  When they won the ball they were slick and broke with pace, getting men forward.  We seemed almost ashamed of that type of football at times.  Basically, going by today's showing, the score doesn't matter.  There was no urge to attack at all.  It was all about retaining the ball even in the latter stages.

As others have said, Fon Williams kept the score down and Christie and Mutombo actually looked like they were trying.  Sorry to sound like a broken record, but Lopez is a waste of space.  Not interested and not good enough.  This season's Claude Gnakpa or Tarmo Kink.

Terry Butcher had many faults, but to be fair, he could look at the squad and know what we needed.  Mckay left months and it never really looked like Ofere was going to stay, yet the season's started and we're still yet to bring anyone in who looks close to being a finisher.  It's really strikes to me as panic stations all of a sudden.  We need another striker and a more attacking philosophy quick or it could be a very long season ahead.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Renegade

[RiG]

I'm not sure how that would happen. When a challenge takes place in a game is completely irrelevant to the punishment received. Anyway, Warrens challenge on McDonald clearly wasn't a case of SFP.

Referees are very rarely going to send someone off so early in the game. The timing should be irrelevant, but I think some refs know they'll be criticised if they kill the game as a contest so early so will lessen the punishment.  It looked a very bad tackle from the Main Stand.

The Warren tackle just looked like he hung his leg out and tripped McDonald which is very different from what Pearson looked to have done.

Hope this rumour about a broken leg is just that. He tried to walk on it but had to give up after a couple of steps. Could he do that on a broken leg? 

 

I'm not sure how that would happen. When a challenge takes place in a game is completely irrelevant to the punishment received. Anyway, Warrens challenge on McDonald clearly wasn't a case of SFP.

Referees are very rarely going to send someone off so early in the game. The timing should be irrelevant, but I think some refs know they'll be criticised if they kill the game as a contest so early so will lessen the punishment.  It looked a very bad tackle from the Main Stand.

The Warren tackle just looked like he hung his leg out and tripped McDonald which is very different from what Pearson looked to have done.

No, he piled through him, might be shown in the highlights.

Let's just hope Meekings' injury isn't bad otherwise we are truly effed. 

I don't think I'll be watching the highlights - there wasn't really anything worth watching from our PoV 

[lightlamp2]

Didn't make it today but surprised to hear the posts about Wedderburn.. I thought he was one of our better players out in Romania.  

Gutted with the result ... but it's idiotic to be writing off new signings when they are settling into an unbalanced side with the players we have lost and the injuries Yogi has to deal with at the moment. 

We obviously need a goalscorer (maybe 2) .. Lopez could be a decent player but he doesn't seem to be the sort of player that can lead the line himself. 

Hopefully this result is the kick up the arse needed for the board to go out and spend some money.... As Lightlamp posted earlier we need some investment and Yogi deserves it after all the revenue he brought to the club last year.  We should not have to live off free transfers from regional divisions in Spain and France...it's fine for these players to come in and help the squad but we should not be relying on them as first team players.  It's not fair on them to be thrown straight in and be judged like that when they are stepping into a higher standard of league.  

If we don't buy someone soon I think it is fair that questions are asked of the board.

Still remaining positive though ... there was no way that we could expect to be as good as last year so everyone needs to take a breath and be patient. 

Spot on

[cif73]

Ofere is still without a club. Yogi hasn't mentioned his name amongst our significant departures. Sometimes he looked like he was running through treacle but his goals per game ratio was pretty darn good ... Including big games ... Wondering if we should do what today's opponents have done with Scott McDonald ....reconsider Ofere?

Watching back some of last season's highlights/goals, the case for giving it a try seems to be getting more compelling.

[old caley girl]

Ofere is still without a club. Yogi hasn't mentioned his name amongst our significant departures. Sometimes he looked like he was running through treacle but his goals per game ratio was pretty darn good ... Including big games ... Wondering if we should do what today's opponents have done with Scott McDonald ....reconsider Ofere?

Watching back some of last season's highlights/goals, the case for giving it a try seems to be getting more compelling.

Ofere Was offered a deal which he rejected. Rumour has it his demands were way out of our league. So unfortunately isn't going to happen. Must be more like him out there tho?

[cif73]

Ofere is still without a club. Yogi hasn't mentioned his name amongst our significant departures. Sometimes he looked like he was running through treacle but his goals per game ratio was pretty darn good ... Including big games ... Wondering if we should do what today's opponents have done with Scott McDonald ....reconsider Ofere?

Watching back some of last season's highlights/goals, the case for giving it a try seems to be getting more compelling.

Ofere Was offered a deal which he rejected. Rumour has it his demands were way out of our league. So unfortunately isn't going to happen. Must be more like him out there tho?

Yes I know he was offered a deal and I know that he rejected it. I predicted on this forum long before the cup final that his agent would come in with big wage demands. But presumably, when he came to us, he was affordable. 

We were his best option back then. He maybe just got ideas above his station on the back of his successful short period with us.

He is in a similar position again. At the moment he's not earning at all presumably. No better reality check IMHO.

 

[davieB]

Gary has a broken fibula. Looks like we're going to be without him for a long time. He'll be a big loss.

[old caley girl]

Ofere is still without a club. Yogi hasn't mentioned his name amongst our significant departures. Sometimes he looked like he was running through treacle but his goals per game ratio was pretty darn good ... Including big games ... Wondering if we should do what today's opponents have done with Scott McDonald ....reconsider Ofere?

Watching back some of last season's highlights/goals, the case for giving it a try seems to be getting more compelling.

Ofere Was offered a deal which he rejected. Rumour has it his demands were way out of our league. So unfortunately isn't going to happen. Must be more like him out there tho?

Yes I know he was offered a deal and I know that he rejected it. I predicted on this forum long before the cup final that his agent would come in with big wage demands. But presumably, when he came to us, he was affordable. 

We were his best option back then. He maybe just got ideas above his station on the back of his successful short period with us.

He is in a similar position again. At the moment he's not earning at all presumably. No better reality check IMHO.

 

not so sure tbh....He was without a club for months before coming to us so maybe he's not too bothered. 

I know what you're saying tho....he's defo missed as he knows where the back of the net is! However can't see him wanting to return now unfortunately

I'm not sure how that would happen. When a challenge takes place in a game is completely irrelevant to the punishment received. Anyway, Warrens challenge on McDonald clearly wasn't a case of SFP.

Referees are very rarely going to send someone off so early in the game. The timing should be irrelevant, but I think some refs know they'll be criticised if they kill the game as a contest so early so will lessen the punishment.  It looked a very bad tackle from the Main Stand.

The Warren tackle just looked like he hung his leg out and tripped McDonald which is very different from what Pearson looked to have done.

Hope this rumour about a broken leg is just that. He tried to walk on it but had to give up after a couple of steps. Could he do that on a broken leg? 

if it's his ankle yes. I've known folk hobble round for days then find out it's broken.

Gary has a broken fibula. Looks like we're going to be without him for a long time. He'll be a big loss.

recovery will depend on type of fracture then if true. Bad news tho...

[davieB]

A friend who knows Gary has not long spoken to him, and he confirmed his injury.

[ICTRoughi]

Match Highlights posted by Motherwell: http://youtu.be/CBERzqws7YY

[Guest Shaun]

Its time to forget about Ofere guys, he won't be back unfortunately and to an above poster who said that there must  be others out there like Ofere, of course there are, John just needs to look out for them.

Whats Malonga up to these days, is he  still at Hibs?

 

Zeefuik was another who was banging goals in for Hearts last season.

 

As I have said, its so obvious that we are in desperate need of a striker, be it on loan or signed up.  I would still favour loaning someone in from England/Ireland.

[PerfICT]

It's taken me until now to recover from that car-crash and comment on yesterday's game...

Put simply, that is as bad a performance as I have ever seen from ICT. Yes, we're ravaged by injuries, but that has only served to show us all what we already knew: we have a very thin squad and need more strength in depth! Our recruitment this year has been nothing short of a shambles and yesterday was the result. No depth, no strikers, no shape, no energy, no pace.

On the new boys: his is the first time I've seen Lopez and I was totally unimpressed. He carries no aerial threat, no pace and no ability to anticipate (striker's instinct). He's is passable at linking play in a number 10 role, but not a number 9. Mutombo looked quite sparky when he came on and was instrumental in our only chance from open play, but without a target in the box, most of his good work came to nought. I didn't see enough of Wedderburn to make a judgement - Yogi was unfortunate to have hooked him for tactical reasons before Warren was injured. Fon Williams made several excellent saves, including the penalty. After a bit of a shaky start, it looks like he's a good addition. I know he's not all that new, but Horner looked distinctly average.

What else did we learn?

1. Raven is no left back. This experiment should not be repeated. Williams did OK hen he went to left back and that appears to be our only option now.

2. Meekings is not a right back. The Warren-Meekings partnership in the heart of defence is our backbone and losing Warren is going to hurt.

2. We can't play 4-4-2 because....we don't have a single striker, never mind 2! As Craig Levein found out in Czech Republic, 4-6-0 just doesn't work.

3. Right now, we need to banish thoughts of top 6 and concentrate on the usual - avoiding relegation.

Where to from here?

Yogi needs to work his socks off in the transfer market. We need at least 2 strikers and (now) several defenders. I think we've missed the boat to a large extent - loans might be the way forward?

I can only see one formation with any merit at the moment, with 2 holding midfielders protecting a new central defensive partnership:

Fon Williams

Raven Devine Wedderburn (Meekings) Williams

Draper Tansey

Mutombo Christie (Roberts, Doran)

????  My granny? (Ferguson, Sutherland?)

Time to scrap for every point and get some of these injured guys back. Very worrying.

[Laurence]

There was booing at the end of the game

John  Hughes take note

I was wondering was there a reason for so many injuries.

My conclusion was if you dwell on the ball and play a slow passing game, you are more likely to get caught by hard tackles, hence you pick up injuries.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Laurence
addittion

[Ictross]

There was booing at the end of the game

John  Hughes take note

I was wondering was there a reason for so many injuries.

My conclusion was if you dwell on the ball and play a slow passing game, you are more likely to get caught by hard tackles, hence you pick up injuries.

how fickle are fans! Hopefully it was out of frustration. Wasn't in terribly large numbers tbh 

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

There was booing at the end of the game

John  Hughes take note

I was wondering was there a reason for so many injuries.

My conclusion was if you dwell on the ball and play a slow passing game, you are more likely to get caught by hard tackles, hence you pick up injuries.

Last year we played this way with few injuries and much success.  This year we started competitive action much earlier. That nor 'the passing game' was probably not a factor behind Warren's injury. Probably not Tremarco, Foran, and Vincent too because they have hardly played so far. Aaron's injury neither. So where is the evidence? Was it Meekings who seemed to pick up or exacerbate a knock against St Mirren?

[Sneckboy]

Its time to forget about Ofere guys, he won't be back unfortunately and to an above poster who said that there must  be others out there like Ofere, of course there are, John just needs to look out for them.

Whats Malonga up to these days, is he  still at Hibs?

 

Zeefuik was another who was banging goals in for Hearts last season.

 

As I have said, its so obvious that we are in desperate need of a striker, be it on loan or signed up.  I would still favour loaning someone in from England/Ireland.

Malonga's still under contract at Hibs for this season. And Zeefuik has just recently signed a two-year deal for a club in Turkey!

[rocky1]

That's Brill,Tremarco, Warren, Meekings, Vincent, Doran, Roberts, Foran all out. Devine only fit CB ? Is there some rule where due to excessive injuries we can get a game postponed - if so next week should be called off or we are going to have to play the development squad 

[DalgetyBayJaggy]

The most concerning thing for me is that I don't think I've seen any quotes from Yogi recently saying that he actually needs a striker - he just talks about needing to be more "cutting" in the final third. 

His quote about Mutombo "He can play in all positions across the front, either on the wing, behind the first striker or as that first striker". He's presumably not been played as a striker much - if he has then his goal record is woeful and in any case 4 goals in his last 80 games is not exactly encouraging for an attacking midfielder. Maybe Hughes sees him as more of a striker than his previous managers but if this is the case (based on watching him just 2 or 3 times then it seems a pretty desperate gamble.

Lopez has had a reasonable strike rate in his career but for the last 5 years has only played 20 games a season. For him to make a significant contribution he'll need to play more than he's played for years and play a lot better than he has in the last 3 games.

I can only hope that Yogi's just playing his cards close to his chest and is quietly working on finding a striker. Yesterday's injuries won't help in the search for a striker as he'll now also have to concentrate on shoring up the defence.

It is also a worry that, with the limited options currently available to him, Yogi seems intent on playing so many players out of position. I know that it's easy to be critical from the sidelines but the last time I felt so strongly that a manager had things wrong when Levein stuck resolutely with his 4-6-0 in Prague despite the fact that Scotland were every bit as good as the Czechs. I know his job can't be easy but sometimes a manager needs to look up as well and take note of what everyone around him is saying.

[old caley girl]

The most concerning thing for me is that I don't think I've seen any quotes from Yogi recently saying that he actually needs a striker - he just talks about needing to be more "cutting" in the final third. 

His quote about Mutombo "He can play in all positions across the front, either on the wing, behind the first striker or as that first striker". He's presumably not been played as a striker much - if he has then his goal record is woeful and in any case 4 goals in his last 80 games is not exactly encouraging for an attacking midfielder. Maybe Hughes sees him as more of a striker than his previous managers but if this is the case (based on watching him just 2 or 3 times then it seems a pretty desperate gamble.

Lopez has had a reasonable strike rate in his career but for the last 5 years has only played 20 games a season. For him to make a significant contribution he'll need to play more than he's played for years and play a lot better than he has in the last 3 games.

I can only hope that Yogi's just playing his cards close to his chest and is quietly working on finding a striker. Yesterday's injuries won't help in the search for a striker as he'll now also have to concentrate on shoring up the defence.

It is also a worry that, with the limited options currently available to him, Yogi seems intent on playing so many players out of position. I know that it's easy to be critical from the sidelines but the last time I felt so strongly that a manager had things wrong when Levein stuck resolutely with his 4-6-0 in Prague despite the fact that Scotland were every bit as good as the Czechs. I know his job can't be easy but sometimes a manager needs to look up as well and take note of what everyone around him is saying.

The most concerning thing for me is that I don't think I've seen any quotes from Yogi recently saying that he actually needs a striker - he just talks about needing to be more "cutting" in the final third. 

His quote about Mutombo "He can play in all positions across the front, either on the wing, behind the first striker or as that first striker". He's presumably not been played as a striker much - if he has then his goal record is woeful and in any case 4 goals in his last 80 games is not exactly encouraging for an attacking midfielder. Maybe Hughes sees him as more of a striker than his previous managers but if this is the case (based on watching him just 2 or 3 times then it seems a pretty desperate gamble.

Lopez has had a reasonable strike rate in his career but for the last 5 years has only played 20 games a season. For him to make a significant contribution he'll need to play more than he's played for years and play a lot better than he has in the last 3 games.

I can only hope that Yogi's just playing his cards close to his chest and is quietly working on finding a striker. Yesterday's injuries won't help in the search for a striker as he'll now also have to concentrate on shoring up the defence.

It is also a worry that, with the limited options currently available to him, Yogi seems intent on playing so many players out of position. I know that it's easy to be critical from the sidelines but the last time I felt so strongly that a manager had things wrong when Levein stuck resolutely with his 4-6-0 in Prague despite the fact that Scotland were every bit as good as the Czechs. I know his job can't be easy but sometimes a manager needs to look up as well and take note of what everyone around him is saying.

I suspect that's maybe because there's no money left in the budget for anymore players so he knows we've got to get on with it? 

[The Long Man]

Our most successful season ever, 4 players off the wages bill since last season, and we can't afford a decent striker? Other SPL teams are finding and affording them. What baffles me about Lopez is that if he is not match fit, who at the club has ever seen him perform at full fitness, and if not how do we know he will be good for us? 

My preference would be to sign two strikers, one with experience and a track record, the other a young up and coming prospect. There seems to be an almost random signing policy at the moment with the emphasis on how cheaply we can get them. Not encouraging.

[ICTRoughi]

 

 

The most concerning thing for me is that I don't think I've seen any quotes from Yogi recently saying that he actually needs a striker - he just talks about needing to be more "cutting" in the final third. 

His quote about Mutombo "He can play in all positions across the front, either on the wing, behind the first striker or as that first striker". He's presumably not been played as a striker much - if he has then his goal record is woeful and in any case 4 goals in his last 80 games is not exactly encouraging for an attacking midfielder. Maybe Hughes sees him as more of a striker than his previous managers but if this is the case (based on watching him just 2 or 3 times then it seems a pretty desperate gamble.

Lopez has had a reasonable strike rate in his career but for the last 5 years has only played 20 games a season. For him to make a significant contribution he'll need to play more than he's played for years and play a lot better than he has in the last 3 games.

I can only hope that Yogi's just playing his cards close to his chest and is quietly working on finding a striker. Yesterday's injuries won't help in the search for a striker as he'll now also have to concentrate on shoring up the defence.

It is also a worry that, with the limited options currently available to him, Yogi seems intent on playing so many players out of position. I know that it's easy to be critical from the sidelines but the last time I felt so strongly that a manager had things wrong when Levein stuck resolutely with his 4-6-0 in Prague despite the fact that Scotland were every bit as good as the Czechs. I know his job can't be easy but sometimes a manager needs to look up as well and take note of what everyone around him is saying.

I suspect that's maybe because there's no money left in the budget for anymore players so he knows we've got to get on with it? 

Pretty much what Yogi has told the Inverness Courier: http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/Sport/Football/No-scope-to-bring-in-injury-replacements-says-Caley-Thistle-boss-John-Hughes-02082015.htm

 

[tm4tj]

I see the multi quote function is working well