It's not all doom and gloom

[cif73]

Whilst I am all for fiscal responsibility, and have espoused that opinion many times over the years as it relates to ICT, there are times when you do need to "speculate to accumulate". Every league placing is worth a significant sum (was 70K) so, although it is too late for this particular one, if a striker like Mackay could have been loaned in and paid say 2 grand a week then his goals (and I have no doubt he would haved scored some) could easily have taken us up 2 or 3 places and paid for his contract and more ! Yes, its a risk and he might not score any ... but we all know what the cost of relegation is   

A friend who is a Dundee Utd fan was at Ross County today. He had not been keen on the McKay signing but has completely changed his tune. Despite not scoring he felt McKay was their " diamond in the rough" and wished they'd had him earlier. He thinks he'd have made the difference in narrow games where they've dropped points before today (eg Dundee derby). Gutting given he was one of our own, had become available and a position we are very sadly lacking in now. 

[PerfICT]

Mutombo's dismissal sounds utterly stupid but on the plus side it does perhaps indicate a level of passion.  Mutombo's suspension might also force the manager in giving some game time to one of the youngsters.  I recall a few years ago when Butcher consistently preferred Barrowman to Rooney.  Barrowman was injured and Rooney had his chance.  The rest is history.

Not sure he will, though, DD. I suspect he'll play Roberts if he's now fit. There seems a real reluctance to play Ferguson or Sutherland - neither could be worse than what I've seen of Lopez tbf.

Whilst I am all for fiscal responsibility, and have espoused that opinion many times over the years as it relates to ICT, there are times when you do need to "speculate to accumulate". Every league placing is worth a significant sum (was 70K) so, although it is too late for this particular one, if a striker like Mackay could have been loaned in and paid say 2 grand a week then his goals (and I have no doubt he would haved scored some) could easily have taken us up 2 or 3 places and paid for his contract and more ! Yes, its a risk and he might not score any ... but we all know what the cost of relegation is   

A friend who is a Dundee Utd fan was at Ross County today. He had not been keen on the McKay signing but has completely changed his tune. Despite not scoring he felt McKay was their " diamond in the rough" and wished they'd had him earlier. He thinks he'd have made the difference in narrow games where they've dropped points before today (eg Dundee derby). Gutting given he was one of our own, had become available and a position we are very sadly lacking in now. 

Agree, but the truth is that we would never be able to match United on wages and it seems that wages was a sticking point for the deal to go ahead there.

[scottbamby]

I think people are panicking too early. I'm far from a happy clapper, and although I understand the frustration, things are not as bad as being portrayed. Barring two stupid last minute equalisers, our very patched up side which started the season would have us sitting outside the top six only on goal difference. The margins in this league are very small, as outside of Celtic and Aberdeen(and arguably Hearts) there is absolutely nothing between the rest of the sides. If we can bring in a striker, get the likes of Meekings, Vincent and Roberts(who I'm really excited by) back as soon as possible, and stop the bombshell that is Carl Tremarco self destructing then we will be absolutely fine. Keep the faith guys, and the #TogetherNess that makes our club so special 

[old caley girl]

The Foran contract is crazy as well? Why give any 30+ player such a long contract.  Impossible to predict injuries he's had but surely a player at his age was more susceptible and that money could have been passed around the team.  

Have to agree with that one. Probably a sentimental decision from Butcher to give his buddy one last big deal after all their years working together. Richie delivered for Butcher, and Butcher delivered for Richie. Seems fair enough, although maybe not such good business from the club's perspective! To be fair, he certainly didn't look 'past it' before his injury, so he might still come back into the team and make a significant contribution.

Since this thread is about looking on the bright side - we've had a terrible start but we aren't isolated at the bottom. In fact, one win would have us knocking on the door of the top 6. We've also now seen enough of the SPL to discern that most of the other teams aren't any better than us.

actually Bucher had left the building when Foran got his contract. In fact I think it was also signed before Yogi arrived! 

[Guest]

Richie is one of only a couple of natural leaders and born winners in the squad and giving him a longer contract was absolutely the right decision in my opinion. Regardless of injuries, his presence at the club is an asset. I hope he stays with us in a coaching role once he retires.

[MacShimidh]

The Foran contract is crazy as well? Why give any 30+ player such a long contract.  Impossible to predict injuries he's had but surely a player at his age was more susceptible and that money could have been passed around the team.  

I think that's pretty harsh. When he got injured, Foran was our most consistent player, having re-trained to play defensive mid and looking like he could play there for years.

[12th Man]

The Foran contract is crazy as well? Why give any 30+ player such a long contract.  Impossible to predict injuries he's had but surely a player at his age was more susceptible and that money could have been passed around the team.  

Have to agree with that one. Probably a sentimental decision from Butcher to give his buddy one last big deal after all their years working together. Richie delivered for Butcher, and Butcher delivered for Richie. Seems fair enough, although maybe not such good business from the club's perspective! To be fair, he certainly didn't look 'past it' before his injury, so he might still come back into the team and make a significant contribution.

Since this thread is about looking on the bright side - we've had a terrible start but we aren't isolated at the bottom. In fact, one win would have us knocking on the door of the top 6. We've also now seen enough of the SPL to discern that most of the other teams aren't any better than us.

actually Bucher had left the building when Foran got his contract. In fact I think it was also signed before Yogi arrived! 

You beat me to it. I thought the deal was to stop Richie following Mr T to Hibs. I'm pretty sure that Yogi mentioned when he came in that Richie was  going to be his successor.

[CaleyD]

Whilst I am all for fiscal responsibility, and have espoused that opinion many times over the years as it relates to ICT, there are times when you do need to "speculate to accumulate". Every league placing is worth a significant sum (was 70K) so, although it is too late for this particular one, if a striker like Mackay could have been loaned in and paid say 2 grand a week then his goals (and I have no doubt he would haved scored some) could easily have taken us up 2 or 3 places and paid for his contract and more ! Yes, its a risk and he might not score any ... but we all know what the cost of relegation is   

That's not speculation...that's calculated risk/decision making and I agree with the theory of what you say.

What is being advocated by HC is that the club spend money they don't have and/or increase annual budgets on the basis of one off windfalls.....something that we, as fans, have been critical of in the past when it looked like the club may be following such a course of action (e.g. Niculae).

[GaliantGrunt]

Our defensive record this season is actually not too bad. Outwith the Celtic game, we haven't conceded more than one goal in a game yet. If only we could score...

Hamilton

[Guest]

Our defensive record this season is actually not too bad. Outwith the Celtic game, we haven't conceded more than one goal in a game yet. If only we could score...

Hamilton

Oops.

[+DoofersDad]

The Foran contract is crazy as well? Why give any 30+ player such a long contract.  Impossible to predict injuries he's had but surely a player at his age was more susceptible and that money could have been passed around the team.  

Have to agree with that one. Probably a sentimental decision from Butcher to give his buddy one last big deal after all their years working together. Richie delivered for Butcher, and Butcher delivered for Richie. Seems fair enough, although maybe not such good business from the club's perspective! To be fair, he certainly didn't look 'past it' before his injury, so he might still come back into the team and make a significant contribution.

Since this thread is about looking on the bright side - we've had a terrible start but we aren't isolated at the bottom. In fact, one win would have us knocking on the door of the top 6. We've also now seen enough of the SPL to discern that most of the other teams aren't any better than us.

actually Bucher had left the building when Foran got his contract. In fact I think it was also signed before Yogi arrived! 

Asked whether he was going to sign a contract extension Foran had said that he was waiting to see whether Butcher would sign an extension and then he would decide what he was doing.  Far from signing a contract extension, Butcher decided not to honour his current contract and went elsewhere and almost immediately Foran signed his long term contract .  Read into that what you will.

[Harry Chibber]

Whilst I am all for fiscal responsibility, and have espoused that opinion many times over the years as it relates to ICT, there are times when you do need to "speculate to accumulate". Every league placing is worth a significant sum (was 70K) so, although it is too late for this particular one, if a striker like Mackay could have been loaned in and paid say 2 grand a week then his goals (and I have no doubt he would haved scored some) could easily have taken us up 2 or 3 places and paid for his contract and more ! Yes, its a risk and he might not score any ... but we all know what the cost of relegation is   

That's not speculation...that's calculated risk/decision making and I agree with the theory of what you say.

What is being advocated by HC is that the club spend money they don't have and/or increase annual budgets on the basis of one off windfalls.....something that we, as fans, have been critical of in the past when it looked like the club may be following such a course of action (e.g. Niculae).

Not what I said at all. 

 

[CaleyD]

So where is all this money coming from to pay for your grand plan?

[Harry Chibber]

So where is all this money coming from to pay for your grand plan?

Did you actually read my original post before jumping to the defence of the club?

There is no "grand plan" but it is clear for all the good the board has done in the past to keep us out the red, they have missed an opportunity this year. We will probably never have as successful a season as we did last year and we failed to build on it.  If we were ever going to attract new fans to the club this was the year but instead they have been caught sleeping. 

I would only expect reinvestment of the earnings from last year but the numbers don't add up.  We are down on numbers and quality from last year when the club should be in our strongest position ever after the year we just had.  

As for letting Ross and Shinnie leave for absolutely nothing the year we were no longer entitled to reimbursement, that is just embarrassing.  If we continue to make basic errors like that then we will always be a small club. 

 

 

 

 

[izzy]

Get Harry Chibber on the board ,and the future will be bright !!!!!!

Edited August 31, 2015 by izzy
wrong spelling !!

[Kind of Blue]

So where is all this money coming from to pay for your grand plan?

Did you actually read my original post before jumping to the defence of the club?

There is no "grand plan" but it is clear for all the good the board has done in the past to keep us out the red, they have missed an opportunity this year. We will probably never have as successful a season as we did last year and we failed to build on it.  If we were ever going to attract new fans to the club this was the year but instead they have been caught sleeping. 

I would only expect reinvestment of the earnings from last year but the numbers don't add up.  We are down on numbers and quality from last year when the club should be in our strongest position ever after the year we just had.  

As for letting Ross and Shinnie leave for absolutely nothing the year we were no longer entitled to reimbursement, that is just embarrassing.  If we continue to make basic errors like that then we will always be a small club. 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you actually read my original post before jumping to the defence of the club?

There is no "grand plan" but it is clear for all the good the board has done in the past to keep us out the red, they have missed an opportunity this year. We will probably never have as successful a season as we did last year and we failed to build on it.  If we were ever going to attract new fans to the club this was the year but instead they have been caught sleeping. 

I would only expect reinvestment of the earnings from last year but the numbers don't add up.  We are down on numbers and quality from last year when the club should be in our strongest position ever after the year we just had.  

As for letting Ross and Shinnie leave for absolutely nothing the year we were no longer entitled to reimbursement, that is just embarrassing.  If we continue to make basic errors like that then we will always be a small club. 

 

 

 

 

 

As for letting Ross and Shinnie leave for absolutely nothing the year we were no longer entitled to reimbursement, that is just embarrassing.  If we continue to make basic errors like that then we will always be a small club. 

Ross and Shinnie were offered new contracts and rejected them, end of story.  Do you seriously think that Shinnie was ever going to stay with us when when other clubs were interested and offering him a big increase in wages.   

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2015 by Kind of Blue

[Harry Chibber]

KB, I'm talking about when the original deals were negotiated, not when the damage is already done and other clubs had become interested.

No club would sniff about or offer pre-contract when they were both 21 because ICT would be paid a youth development fee.  At that point we should be making the decision on what potential the players have and offering suitable contracts to take them to 24. Seeing both these players leave at age 23, as soon as we are no longer due compensation, isn't a mistake I would expect to be made by any of the other teams in the SPFL. 

[Harry Chibber]

Get Harry Chibber on the board ,and the future will be bright !!!!!!

Haha not a chance.... I couldn't take the criticism!

Might be a few quid short as well.

[Council Juice]

I am sick to death of hearing people say "we are only a small club" and making excuses for the board not doing their job properly.  We are literally loosing money because they are acting like a small club and failing to reward our players with contracts that would have resulted in some sort of transfer fee.  In all business you need to speculate to accumulate - the board were lucky last year that we managed to have such an amazing season because it was not for their doing. 

 

We ARE only a small club. A nationally renowned club but with a regular fan base  of around 2500 and a small budget we are undoubtedly a small club. That is quite simply a matter of fact. 

*losing 

As for the shirts, it's not a matter of when the shirts are available but that the fans buy them when they are. If you had the money to buy one in June why not keep it aside? Though I do feel a pre order system at least would help. 

We are now an established SPFL club and Scottish Cup Winners.. as for attendances we are only ever going to increase the gates by showing ambition and by being a progressive club.  Apart from the big boys our attendances are competitive with others in the division.  I would like to see our net spend for this year (in terms of new contracts) compared to last and with others in the division because I am sure we are well behind the rest of them. 

No, its not a matter of simply keeping money aside for strips.  When are you more likely to buy a new strip? a) when you have just won the Scottish Cup and are competing in Europe with the hope and expectancy of the new season or b) when we are no longer in Europe, memories of the Scottish Cup win are fading* and we are 6 games in without a win and scored only 4 goals and worse yet - County are flying. That's for existing fans.  What about new fans that we could have attracted after the Scottish Cup Win, are they still likely to keep money aside for a new top? It's supply and demand.  We had the demand and still have no supply.  Also Cabrini?  The fans are paying the same price for football tops that are being made by an inferior brand ...

Imagine a new fan or a fan that is being swayed towards ICT, went to the final celebrated with the rest of us. Loved it!  ICT release 2 new nice as **** adidas tops (just for 1 season) ... guaranteed sales.  Fans delighted walking about wearing these tops, others see them and also want one.. sales spike and ICT has not only made a profit on purchases but also have recruited a new set of fans.  

An adidas ICT top is more of a pipe dream but even stay with Errea for one more season and just make sure that we have tops available for any potential new fans! If making a new deal with Cabrini ... insist that we have our new strips before now... better yet get ahead of the game and strike a deal before last season had ended!! Show a bit of organisation .... do your job.

 

* to be fair will take a long time before I forget that day  

Admittedly not having strips well into the new season is a bit of a joke. (Though I only ever get mine for Xmas anyway. Hopefully be in the shops by then). 

The club is noted for being slow on it though so perhaps we need to learn to expect it, whilst venting our annoyance at the poor preparation. 

Whether we are an established SPFL team or not, doesn't directly impact on the size of our club and in comparison to others ICT are relative minnows. Probably only similar to St Johnstone and Ross County in this league. Hamilton perhaps also. 

But that makes our success all the more satisfying to me. The fact our resources are limited but we use them so well. 

[Sneckboy]

Something that's always fascinated me - probably because there's no definitive answer - is what one's take is, on the relative size of a club. The terms, 'big club' and 'wee club' are often heard or read about in the football community.
Some folk relate it to historical feats, longevity of a club and/or trophies won; others focus on years in 'top tier' or average attendance etc.
There's no 'correct' definition, but It's probably a combination of all of those, although I tend to look at attendances as the lifeblood of a team, particularly in Scotland, as we don't have the outrageous financial TV windfall money that the clubs in England are afforded.

For example, a club like Newcastle United has not been successful recently in terms of winning silverware, and have rarely been seen in European competitions lately - but are still a huge club (in my opinion) due to their enormous fan base.

It's difficult to use attendances as a determining factor in Scotland due to the 'skewing effect' of the Glasgow pair - two home games against Celtic and your average attendance will certainly be up, for example.

Below, is a table of average attendances over the most recent three-year period, left-to-right, season-ending 2013; to season-ending 2015.
Again, the 'Rangers effect' will have enhanced some figures, as some of those clubs will have met the Ibrox club in this time-frame. 

It should also be remembered that clubs like Dunfermline and Falkirk would 'pick up' fans if they were in higher leagues, and similarly, we would naturally 'bleed' fans too if we were to drop.

Although nothing should necessarily be taken from an extrapolated 3-year-study of only that relatively small time frame, particularly with the vagaries of the Glasgow giants' fan bases, in essence, we are certainly performing well relative to our attendances.

Punching-above-our-weight? Undoubtedly, YES! - But I hate the expression - as it diminishes much of the great work being done at the club 'behind the scenes' that we don't ever see, hear or will ever read about.

A Yo-Yo club? Absolutely, YES! When we started out in 1994, this scenario would have been a dream...sometimes being in the top flight, but other-times being in the second-tier!
We're a well-established club in the top-flight at present, indeed the top 6, but after an unprecedented period in Scottish football, sadly, normal order will soon prevail.
Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United etc ..will, over the medium-to-long-term be clubs we'll struggle to compete with over a season. It's economic reality.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Sneckboy