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The game was poor last night, and we looked devoid of any real ideas in the final third. People calling for Hughes out need to calm down, this is the man that guided the club to unprecedented success last season, and is dealing with a huge injury crisis right now. We have to remember we aren't world beaters, we first and foremost have to stay in the league, anything more than that is always a welcome bonus.

This squad under Hughes however, I feel is still capable of reaching the top 6 if they can get some confidence back..... and for me that's where the problem lies, you can see the players aren't confident after a run of poor results. I know myself obviously at a lower level what it's like when your team get in to a rut of form, it's very hard to get out of, but a couple good wins and it comes flowing back. We have to be patient, it will come and Hughes will be motivating the boys to that effect.

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And the 'Most Predictable Post of the Night Award' goes to....

.....in the car park?!

Time to reflect. Yogi's hands are tied with respect to the number of fit players he has - for that, he has my sympathy. He has no option but to play guys out of position and make do. In addition, he

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Other than the monetary aspect I am unconcerned that we have no more games to play in this pointless competition. Given our injury list i wouldn't mind some weather cancellations too. JH said in his interview last night there are no signs of anyone coming back at the moment. Vigurs strength is getting in behind the oppositions midfield where he can support the striker or have a shot, this is not where he is being played the result being he is either benched or subbed, I don't feel we are getting the best out of this player. There are also times when a longer ball is needed particularly when the opposition plays high up the pitch with a pressing game. All you need is a bad bounce or poor touch and you've lost it in your own half. I'm all for playing passing football in the right areas but sometimes you have to put your foot through the ball.

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Get off my back Renegade, you were warned on another thread that I am allowed an opinion!!!!!!!!!!

You have picked on me ever since I became a member!!

I will give you one reason why that is MY OPINION!

Ever since KC rejected Steven Thompson's approach our form has been ABYSMAL so I reckon his heart isn't in it anymore, it is in stark contrast to St JJ, as soon as they refused ST permission to speak to Tommy Wright, he was offered a new deal and very quickly signed it and ever since, bar Partick last weekend, their form has picked up.

You are, of course allowed your opinion but so is Renegade. He is not 'on your back' but merely voicing his opinion to which he is equally entitled.

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Time to reflect.

Yogi's hands are tied with respect to the number of fit players he has - for that, he has my sympathy. He has no option but to play guys out of position and make do. In addition, he has virtually no options to change things when it's not working out during a game.

HOWEVER, it is his job to adopt a system that best suits the players he has and to recognise and rectify when things aren't working. For example, Vincent up front didn't work on Saturday, but he persisted with this tactic last night and.......it didn't work again! Contrast that display from Vincent with the one away at County where he played in midfield and was fantastic. We do not have 2 fit senior strikers at the club, so he cannot play 2 up front unless he's willing to go with Sutherland, who I thought looked decent last night. Vigurs in for Williams just eliminated the only player with any pace in the team - Williams made a difference when he came on. The diamond in midfield didn't really work either. The passing game when you're 2-0 down in a cup with players playing out of position is (a) suicidal and (b) ineffectual. I understand that the club bought into the philosophy when Yogi came, but he needs to mix it up with the longer ball occasionally, otherwise we are too predictable. Everybody now knows to press us high up the pitch and eventuually we'll cough it up in a dangerous position.

Much as I hate us losing to County, I'm not concerned about being out of this cup. League points are, however, vital and we have another opportunity on Saturday to take something from the game. If the group that played last night are all we've got, then so be it. But Yogi needs to play them in a formation that they are all comfortable with and be prepared to go long if needs be to cut out the leakiness at the back. The strikers did well off balls into the channels for the last 20 min, so keep doing it! Equally, there is no point to passing the ball amongst the back 5, only for Fon Williams to eventually hack it away under pressure anyway - may as well do that off the bat and reduce the risk!

Learn from the mistakes, Yogi, or we're in really deep trouble.

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Disagree with those who are unconcerned about the League Cup. That might have been the case in the 1st round, but if we'd won last night we'd be only 1 game away from another major final. I know technically the League Cup is the 'wee' cup, but seeing as we've already got the 'big' cup in the trophy cabinet, I'd rather we won something we haven't had before to complete the set (1 Challenge Cup, 1 Scottish Cup, 1 League Cup).  

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"People calling for Hughes out need to calm down" should probably read, "Person calling for Hughes out needs to calm down" !! :lol:

Haha! Sorry, Person!

I just don't want to see us become the type of club that jumps on the "Manager Out" bandwagon when things don't go our way.

Personally I feel Hughes has us playing (trying to at present) a brand of football that I don't mind paying to watch, and for that he must be applauded, even with the poor results you can see he is trying to stick to the philosophy of playing good football, but with injuries, players out of position it makes this difficult and mistakes are going to happen and unfortunately we are going through a wee rough patch, but I have faith we will get through it and return to winning ways.

We really missed Draper last night, he would have marshalled Irvine out the game. The only thing I would have changed however would have been Williams on from the start, he's a real dynamic player and gave us a real injection when he came on. 

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"People calling for Hughes out need to calm down" should probably read, "Person calling for Hughes out needs to calm down" !! :lol:

Haha! Sorry, Person!

I just don't want to see us become the type of club that jumps on the "Manager Out" bandwagon when things don't go our way.

Personally I feel Hughes has us playing (trying to at present) a brand of football that I don't mind paying to watch, and for that he must be applauded, even with the poor results you can see he is trying to stick to the philosophy of playing good football, but with injuries, players out of position it makes this difficult and mistakes are going to happen and unfortunately we are going through a wee rough patch, but I have faith we will get through it and return to winning ways.

We really missed Draper last night, he would have marshalled Irvine out the game. The only thing I would have changed however would have been Williams on from the start, he's a real dynamic player and gave us a real injection when he came on. 

I agree with this as calls for Yogi to be sacked or resign is a bit premature however if form continues into next month then serious questions needs to be answered. 

I really liked last season's style of play because it was slick, fast paced and exciting compared to last night it was rigid, slow, and unimaginative. I understand that we lost a good calibre of players but the players we have still at the club are very capable of reaching the same heights as last season. The thing that annoyed me last night was that we just sat and took Ross County's pressure and nothing was coming from the management to rectify that. The game sparked into life when Danny Williams and Ali Sutherland came on in the last 15 minutes, why didn't they start the game? I thought that missing Ross Draper was sticking out like a sore thumb but we had Nat Wedderburn on the bench with the same physical attributes as Draper, why wasn't he used? 

It's just a very frustrating time at the moment and hopefully the changes happen in time for Saturday. 

 

 

Edited by ICTRoughi
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personally i think we missed Draper a lot last night, Christie was just hammered by County, count up how many fouls where on him, we needed someone to step up and try and protect him but we didnt have it, we werent nasty enough imho 

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"People calling for Hughes out need to calm down" should probably read, "Person calling for Hughes out needs to calm down" !! :lol:

Haha! Sorry, Person!

I just don't want to see us become the type of club that jumps on the "Manager Out" bandwagon when things don't go our way.

Personally I feel Hughes has us playing (trying to at present) a brand of football that I don't mind paying to watch, and for that he must be applauded, even with the poor results you can see he is trying to stick to the philosophy of playing good football, but with injuries, players out of position it makes this difficult and mistakes are going to happen and unfortunately we are going through a wee rough patch, but I have faith we will get through it and return to winning ways.

We really missed Draper last night, he would have marshalled Irvine out the game. The only thing I would have changed however would have been Williams on from the start, he's a real dynamic player and gave us a real injection when he came on. 

I agree with this as calls for Yogi to be sacked or resign is a bit premature however if form continues into next month then serious questions needs to be answered. 

I really liked last season's style of play because it was slick, fast paced and exciting compared to last night it was rigid, slow, and unimaginative. I understand that we lost a good calibre of players but the players we have still at the club are very capable of reaching the same heights as last season. The thing that annoyed me last night was that we just sat and took Ross County's pressure and nothing was coming from the management to rectify that. The game sparked into life when Danny Williams and Ali Sutherland came on in the last 15 minutes, why didn't they start the game? I thought that missing Ross Draper was sticking out like a sore thumb but we had Nat Wedderburn on the bench with the same physical attributes as Draper, why wasn't he used? 

It's just a very frustrating time at the moment and hopefully the changes happen in time for Saturday. 

 

 

Completely agree questions need to be asked if it continues.... the only thing that concerns me about Hughes at present would be that he has lost the dressing room, there wasn't really too much fight and desire shown by the lads last night and that would be one area of concern, but again that can stem from a lack of confidence and belief in yourself rather than from Hughes.

I've not seen a great deal of Wedderburn.... but when I have he's been an absolute bombscare on the ball, he would give that physical presence yes, but completely goes against the grain in terms of how Hughes wants the team to play, he would have been perfect in a Butcher side so I'm not slanting the guys for being a poor player, just I don't see how he fits in this squad as a get the ball down and play squad.

I'm gonna get pelters for this..... but I think Lopez, given time and a bit of confidence, could be a player for us up top, we need someone that can hold the play up to allow others to get in and support and he has the physical presence to do that.... and in my opinion he has one of the best first touches in the team. I think him and Storey could be lethal together with Storey running in the holes and Lopez directing traffic per say.

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"People calling for Hughes out need to calm down" should probably read, "Person calling for Hughes out needs to calm down" !! :lol:

Haha! Sorry, Person!

I just don't want to see us become the type of club that jumps on the "Manager Out" bandwagon when things don't go our way.

Personally I feel Hughes has us playing (trying to at present) a brand of football that I don't mind paying to watch, and for that he must be applauded, even with the poor results you can see he is trying to stick to the philosophy of playing good football, but with injuries, players out of position it makes this difficult and mistakes are going to happen and unfortunately we are going through a wee rough patch, but I have faith we will get through it and return to winning ways.

We really missed Draper last night, he would have marshalled Irvine out the game. The only thing I would have changed however would have been Williams on from the start, he's a real dynamic player and gave us a real injection when he came on. 

I agree with this as calls for Yogi to be sacked or resign is a bit premature however if form continues into next month then serious questions needs to be answered. 

I really liked last season's style of play because it was slick, fast paced and exciting compared to last night it was rigid, slow, and unimaginative. I understand that we lost a good calibre of players but the players we have still at the club are very capable of reaching the same heights as last season. The thing that annoyed me last night was that we just sat and took Ross County's pressure and nothing was coming from the management to rectify that. The game sparked into life when Danny Williams and Ali Sutherland came on in the last 15 minutes, why didn't they start the game? I thought that missing Ross Draper was sticking out like a sore thumb but we had Nat Wedderburn on the bench with the same physical attributes as Draper, why wasn't he used? 

It's just a very frustrating time at the moment and hopefully the changes happen in time for Saturday. 

 

 

Completely agree questions need to be asked if it continues.... the only thing that concerns me about Hughes at present would be that he has lost the dressing room, there wasn't really too much fight and desire shown by the lads last night and that would be one area of concern, but again that can stem from a lack of confidence and belief in yourself rather than from Hughes.

I've not seen a great deal of Wedderburn.... but when I have he's been an absolute bombscare on the ball, he would give that physical presence yes, but completely goes against the grain in terms of how Hughes wants the team to play, he would have been perfect in a Butcher side so I'm not slanting the guys for being a poor player, just I don't see how he fits in this squad as a get the ball down and play squad.

I'm gonna get pelters for this..... but I think Lopez, given time and a bit of confidence, could be a player for us up top, we need someone that can hold the play up to allow others to get in and support and he has the physical presence to do that.... and in my opinion he has one of the best first touches in the team. I think him and Storey could be lethal together with Storey running in the holes and Lopez directing traffic per say.

I thought Wedderburn held his own against Astra especially coming up from Cowdenbeath. I agree the following game against Motherwell he wasn't great but for a short term answer, he's a better option than playing Vigurs deep. 

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"People calling for Hughes out need to calm down" should probably read, "Person calling for Hughes out needs to calm down" !! :lol:

Haha! Sorry, Person!

I just don't want to see us become the type of club that jumps on the "Manager Out" bandwagon when things don't go our way.

Personally I feel Hughes has us playing (trying to at present) a brand of football that I don't mind paying to watch, and for that he must be applauded, even with the poor results you can see he is trying to stick to the philosophy of playing good football, but with injuries, players out of position it makes this difficult and mistakes are going to happen and unfortunately we are going through a wee rough patch, but I have faith we will get through it and return to winning ways.

We really missed Draper last night, he would have marshalled Irvine out the game. The only thing I would have changed however would have been Williams on from the start, he's a real dynamic player and gave us a real injection when he came on. 

I agree with this as calls for Yogi to be sacked or resign is a bit premature however if form continues into next month then serious questions needs to be answered. 

I really liked last season's style of play because it was slick, fast paced and exciting compared to last night it was rigid, slow, and unimaginative. I understand that we lost a good calibre of players but the players we have still at the club are very capable of reaching the same heights as last season. The thing that annoyed me last night was that we just sat and took Ross County's pressure and nothing was coming from the management to rectify that. The game sparked into life when Danny Williams and Ali Sutherland came on in the last 15 minutes, why didn't they start the game? I thought that missing Ross Draper was sticking out like a sore thumb but we had Nat Wedderburn on the bench with the same physical attributes as Draper, why wasn't he used? 

It's just a very frustrating time at the moment and hopefully the changes happen in time for Saturday. 

 

 

Completely agree questions need to be asked if it continues.... the only thing that concerns me about Hughes at present would be that he has lost the dressing room, there wasn't really too much fight and desire shown by the lads last night and that would be one area of concern, but again that can stem from a lack of confidence and belief in yourself rather than from Hughes.

I've not seen a great deal of Wedderburn.... but when I have he's been an absolute bombscare on the ball, he would give that physical presence yes, but completely goes against the grain in terms of how Hughes wants the team to play, he would have been perfect in a Butcher side so I'm not slanting the guys for being a poor player, just I don't see how he fits in this squad as a get the ball down and play squad.

I'm gonna get pelters for this..... but I think Lopez, given time and a bit of confidence, could be a player for us up top, we need someone that can hold the play up to allow others to get in and support and he has the physical presence to do that.... and in my opinion he has one of the best first touches in the team. I think him and Storey could be lethal together with Storey running in the holes and Lopez directing traffic per say.

I thought Wedderburn held his own against Astra especially coming up from Cowdenbeath. I agree the following game against Motherwell he wasn't great but for a short term answer, he's a better option than playing Vigurs deep. 

Yeah, Vigurs is wasted playing deep. I'm not so sure, I remember the Astra game and when he had the ball I just wasn't sure of him at all, great for breaking the play up and worked pretty hard, but not the quite on his toes when the ball came to him.

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Injuries aside this is the squad that we have. So like going down to 10 men. It's up to the players to pull their weight, galvanise and get stuck in, I saw enough desire and hunger to win the game the hard way in the last 20 mins so feel far more optimistic for Saturday.

 

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I've not seen a great deal of Wedderburn.... but when I have he's been an absolute bombscare on the ball, he would give that physical presence yes, but completely goes against the grain in terms of how Hughes wants the team to play, he would have been perfect in a Butcher side so I'm not slanting the guys for being a poor player, just I don't see how he fits in this squad as a get the ball down and play squad.

A bit harsh that. Wedderburn is a crisp passer when I've seen him. He tends to keep it simple and has a pretty decent PSP, something that couldn't be said of many of our lads for the first 75 minutes last night. He's also only 24 and inexperienced so playing him is an investment in the future, as we've seen with Polworth who's coming on leaps and bounds with a run of first team games.   

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I've not seen a great deal of Wedderburn.... but when I have he's been an absolute bombscare on the ball, he would give that physical presence yes, but completely goes against the grain in terms of how Hughes wants the team to play, he would have been perfect in a Butcher side so I'm not slanting the guys for being a poor player, just I don't see how he fits in this squad as a get the ball down and play squad.

A bit harsh that. Wedderburn is a crisp passer when I've seen him. He tends to keep it simple and has a pretty decent PSP, something that couldn't be said of many of our lads for the first 75 minutes last night. He's also only 24 and inexperienced so playing him is an investment in the future, as we've seen with Polworth who's coming on leaps and bounds with a run of first team games.   

I'll agree Polworth coming on leaps and bounds..... yeah I'm maybe being a tad harsh on Wedderburn, I just get chills whenever he has the ball thinking "oh no" maybe me just being paranoid!

 

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Finally others are starting to wish wedderburn would get another chance! I thought in both games against Astra he played very well...his passing was good, he wasn't afraid to tackle either! Having wedderburn in the team would give us the anchor in midfield that a) protects the defence b) allows tansey to push on and c) is the best cover for Draper! 

Tansey is having to take on to much responsibility in sitting back protecting the defence, yet still being asked to push forward, spread the ball and looking after whoever partners him when Draper isn't there! 

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I don't understand why Hughes signed Wedderburn, played him in every pre season game then in the Astra game. He played poor in the Motherwell game but he was stuck out on the wing which clearly isn't his position and in a team where he's not settled yet and now Hughes won't play him at all. A bit worrying that he doesn't seem to have belief in a player he signed.

 

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Wedderburn is definitely a holding midfield player, his build  prevents him from being particularly mobile but I see him as a sitting midfielder in front of the defensive line, i thought he played well against Astra, decent passer and tackler. He and Tansey could play central with Christie ahead of them, Williams on the left Vincent or Polworth on the right and Vigurs or Sutherland in the inside right position slightly ahead of the midfield in support of Storey. This would mean playing three at the back with Tremarco dropping out. Williams is quick enough to provide cover down the left.I know this changes the system used to date but given the injury situation is probably the most attacking line up we could field.

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