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Joint Statement Regarding Pyro at Matches


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I had frightening flares in the 70's. But Jesus the yoof need to rebel. Perhaps if there was a joint statement to have a feckin laff at having harmless banter chants allowed at games there would not be the need to express rebellion. And some need to understand what an Ultra is and what a hooligan is and what a brainless moron is.

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On 18/01/2016 at 7:05 PM, Charles Bannerman said:

Agreed totally. Despite nutty and now discredited legislation, there really is no doubt as to which is the bigger issue requiring the full weight of the law between banter about the cleanliness, ethnicity and legitimacy of the opposition fans or the reckless discharge of explosives in a tightly packed space.

And now I remember why I don't really bother with this site anymore and haven't been on in months. You are still boring everyone senseless I see.

Also explosives ffs. It is smoke bombs that are being set off not atomic bombs.

Edited by Joe DiMaggio
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18 minutes ago, Joe DiMaggio said:

And now I remember why I don't really bother with this site anymore and haven't been on in months. You are still boring everyone senseless I see.

Also explosives ffs. It is smoke bombs that are being set off not atomic bombs.

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As far as I'm concerned anyone caught with flares at a football game should be convicted with arson, discharge and in possession of a dangerous weapon in a public place and intent to cause harm. 

Ruin their lives like they could so easily ruin someone else's. The temperature of flares can reach thousands of degrees Celsius. If that hits your face it could easily scar you for life. Blind and cause other severe disfigurement or in the worst case death. 

A banning order goes no where near far enough. 

If your fans are so sh*t they can't create atmosphere without pyrotechnics then perhaps it's time that you just stopped bothering. 

As for smoke bombs, they can probably be used safely. But are they really needed? 

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15 hours ago, Joe DiMaggio said:

And now I remember why I don't really bother with this site anymore and haven't been on in months.

What a shame you've seen fit to break such a well established habit!

I do realise, though, that you will have been very busy with the Inverness Panto over the Festive Season.:smile:

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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I went on the 4 hour round trip to Station park last night to see Forfar v Linlithgow and recorded the ICT game for when I got in.

A flare was set off prior to the match which then delayed kick off.  The floodlights then went out and instead of lighting another flare to get the game back on they threw smoke bombs instead!

The game was then abandoned for floodlight failure even though the lights were back on :blink:

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Smoke bombs do burn colder but they still burn. Many, especially home made, use celluloid, chopped up ping-pong balls, as the 'fuel'. This, like many plastics, gives of hydrocyanic gases and other impurities that are carcinogenic. If the supporters of smoke are happy to breath that in then who am I to stop them. Its just that I dont want to breath it.

Further to statements already coming out from clubs perhaps people should read this and hope they are not the ones identified. http://ictfc.com/news/club-news/1703-club-statement-on-pyrotechnics It seems to me that very soon someone is going to be picked out for prosecution. Is a criminal record worth the few minutes laugh watching stewards deal with pyro's?

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I can see why fans like pyros (I like them too, I just wish they were safe) but the one thing that puzzles me is this: 

WTF was the point of releasing a smoke bomb in the dying minutes of a slightly embarrassing 0-0 draw against a part-time team from the 4th flight? I can understand that there are times when a passionate fan might think it worth risking a ban or criminal record - but this was not one of those times, surely.   :shrug:

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4 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

WTF was the point of releasing a smoke bomb in the dying minutes of a slightly embarrassing 0-0 draw against a part-time team from the 4th flight?

Yngwie.... your question possibly originates from the erroneous assumption that the perpetrator was capable of acting in a discerning and rational manner. But if you stare into the cubic miles of nothingness which float around in the head of an individual like this, you very probably won't find measureable intelligence but, if you are lucky, you may uncover some deep but unfulfilled desire to seek attention. Other than that, you would probably have to peruse the works of Sigmund Freud to get any insight into the mentality of the kind of complete prat who does things like this. The only mitigating factor is that people like this tend to be front of the queue when it comes to gaining Darwin Awards.

IHE is also correct in his parallel between possessing these things and using a word pertaining to a Romany traveller - in the presence or the absence of further allegations about the individual's cleanliness and legitimacy. These "offences" are a' Jock Tamson's Bairns nowadays.

And Alex is completely correct about home made smoke bombs from table tennis balls, which are made of nitrocellulose - a nitrogen containing polymer. Such polymers tend to produce hydrogen cyanide when they burn and also, like most other polymers, carbon monoxide as well.

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35 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Yngwie.... your question possibly originates from the erroneous assumption that the perpetrator was capable of acting in a discerning and rational manner. But if you stare into the cubic miles of nothingness which float around in the head of an individual like this, you very probably won't find measureable intelligence but, if you are lucky, you may uncover some deep but unfulfilled desire to seek attention. Other than that, you would probably have to peruse the works of Sigmund Freud to get any insight into the mentality of the kind of complete prat who does things like this. The only mitigating factor is that people like this tend to be front of the queue when it comes to gaining Darwin Awards.

IHE is also correct in his parallel between possessing these things and using a word pertaining to a Romany traveller - in the presence or the absence of further allegations about the individual's cleanliness and legitimacy. These "offences" are a' Jock Tamson's Bairns nowadays.

And Alex is completely correct about home made smoke bombs from table tennis balls, which are made of nitrocellulose - a nitrogen containing polymer. Such polymers tend to produce hydrogen cyanide when they burn and also, like most other polymers, carbon monoxide as well.

I know Charles. It even amazes me at times. But I suppose a Chemical Engineering degree and twenty years in the manufacture of acrylonitriles and polyethylenes does kind of rub of.

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6 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Yngwie.... your question possibly originates from the erroneous assumption that the perpetrator was capable of acting in a discerning and rational manner. But if you stare into the cubic miles of nothingness which float around in the head of an individual like this, you very probably won't find measureable intelligence but, if you are lucky, you may uncover some deep but unfulfilled desire to seek attention. Other than that, you would probably have to peruse the works of Sigmund Freud to get any insight into the mentality of the kind of complete prat who does things like this. The only mitigating factor is that people like this tend to be front of the queue when it comes to gaining Darwin Awards.

IHE is also correct in his parallel between possessing these things and using a word pertaining to a Romany traveller - in the presence or the absence of further allegations about the individual's cleanliness and legitimacy. These "offences" are a' Jock Tamson's Bairns nowadays.

And Alex is completely correct about home made smoke bombs from table tennis balls, which are made of nitrocellulose - a nitrogen containing polymer. Such polymers tend to produce hydrogen cyanide when they burn and also, like most other polymers, carbon monoxide as well.

I always thought that someone who initiated a dangerous chemical reaction in the midst of a group of captive youngsters was called a chemistry teacher  :whistle:

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Problem with SPFL is again self protection. Simpliest way to solve this issue is strict liability. If the clubs were punished with points it would very quickly stop pyrotechnics. Cost is nothing. I can think of 2 clubs specifically who may lose a lot of points due to the behaviour of their fans...However, because of this they skirt around the issue and instead talk of introducing face recognition at a cost of almost 5 million apparently to catch less than probably a hundred people (hardly hardened criminals, probably some teenagers wanting to show off in front of their mates) to stop this. 5 million...Bit pathetic really.

There are clearly two types of supporters, both should be welcome at the club. There are the fans with families, older fans who just want to watch the games (new school). And ones who want to vocally encourage, have a more energetic matchday experience (old school). Personally i agree with some posters, the fans who want to create an atmosphere and have fun (singing, jumping, occasional smoke bomb) shouldnt be criminalised. We have a small enough support as it is, they should be accomodated as much as possible within the laws, whilst not annoying the new school of fans.

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10 minutes ago, Stirling Observer said:

Problem with SPFL is again self protection. Simpliest way to solve this issue is strict liability. If the clubs were punished with points it would very quickly stop pyrotechnics. Cost is nothing. I can think of 2 clubs specifically who may lose a lot of points due to the behaviour of their fans...However, because of this they skirt around the issue and instead talk of introducing face recognition at a cost of almost 5 million apparently to catch less than probably a hundred people (hardly hardened criminals, probably some teenagers wanting to show off in front of their mates) to stop this. 5 million...Bit pathetic really.

There are clearly two types of supporters, both should be welcome at the club. There are the fans with families, older fans who just want to watch the games (new school). And ones who want to vocally encourage, have a more energetic matchday experience (old school). Personally i agree with some posters, the fans who want to create an atmosphere and have fun (singing, jumping, occasional smoke bomb) shouldnt be criminalised. We have a small enough support as it is, they should be accomodated as much as possible within the laws, whilst not annoying the new school of fans.

So what's to stop me going to a Ross County match to throw 'pyrotechnics' to deduct them points?

 

#PyroNoFootball

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47 minutes ago, Stirling Observer said:

Problem with SPFL is again self protection. Simpliest way to solve this issue is strict liability. If the clubs were punished with points it would very quickly stop pyrotechnics. Cost is nothing. I can think of 2 clubs specifically who may lose a lot of points due to the behaviour of their fans...However, because of this they skirt around the issue and instead talk of introducing face recognition at a cost of almost 5 million apparently to catch less than probably a hundred people (hardly hardened criminals, probably some teenagers wanting to show off in front of their mates) to stop this. 5 million...Bit pathetic really.

There are clearly two types of supporters, both should be welcome at the club. There are the fans with families, older fans who just want to watch the games (new school). And ones who want to vocally encourage, have a more energetic matchday experience (old school). Personally i agree with some posters, the fans who want to create an atmosphere and have fun (singing, jumping, occasional smoke bomb) shouldnt be criminalised. We have a small enough support as it is, they should be accomodated as much as possible within the laws, whilst not annoying the new school of fans.

The 'old school' you refer to didn't need smoke to create an atmosphere so why is it deemed necessary only in the last couple of years?

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Following examples from other countries i guess. Just like other countries followed our casual culture. Its gone full circle. 

 

When i mention old school, im talking about football fans who were usually drunk, male, aggressive, defending territories. Times have changed obviously but i feel their is a divide amongst the way fans want to behave at a ground, and i feel their is room to accomodate both. Football is about your matchday experience, some prefer safety and a good view, some prefer being intoxicated and attempting to wind up other players, fans. 

 

 

 

  

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Personally. I don't see why such a huge fuss has suddenly been kicked up. Pyro has always been here. I know how dangerous flares can be - but I think the whole anti-pyro thing in Britain is ridiculous. Fan culture in Britain is quite frankly *****. And that's because there's always some boring sod complaining about something. Instead of the out-right criminalization, I think the SFA/FA and clubs should embrace atmopshere and getting people in. Do you remember our game against Dundee when we got promoted? Or the atmosphere at derbies? I think the club should try get that every game. And every club. And the FA/SFA - even Sky! Football is for the fans. So clubs need to work with them. Look at other countries - they embrace their Ultras. Even Celtic, who don't particularly like the Green Bridage embrace them. IMO more needs to be done to add standing sections into grounds. But getting onto the point of Pyro. I simply think people just need to stop moaning. If you don't like Pyro don't go near it. Just stand back from the lads who will obviously let them off, or if you see that they're getting let off just move away until it's over or cover your mouth with your shirt. People in other countries can do that, why can't we here? British fan culture is horrendous compared to other countries and nothing is done to change that. All we have is corporate greed and higher-up people completely disconnected from normal people.

tl:dr - stop moaning.

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