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Banning young team from busses


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12 hours ago, InvernessCT19 said:

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Looks like bad handling to me or at least very poor communication. That said, the important thing is that the wrong has been quickly put right and things are now being dealt with in a proper and proportionate manner.

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I'm currently using my Dad's account, as Ally Davidson. As one of the four boys to go, I believe the situation has been put to bed. We went in there expecting debate but instead, it was a very friendl

CJT bus at 1700 on Saturday

Dearest Forum friends... After some thinking, I write to simply apologise for my outburst during the early hours of Saturday morning. I believed that I had all the facts but sadly my ignorance go

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That's an excellent statement from CJT which makes it clear that actions taken were for issues of a rather more serious nature than simply singing when told not to.  It also makes clear that the issue is now being managed in what appears to be a thoroughly appropriate and professional manner.  Let us hope that as a result of this, youngsters will continue to be able to travel to away matches with CJT if they wish but will have an understanding of and respect for the necessary codes of behaviour.

It is just unfortunate that a day's silence has allowed a relatively divisive dialogue to develop.  A simple statement in response to the OP to say that CJT were aware of the issue, would be investigating it and would report back later would have been sensible.  Such a quick response could also have given contact details for anyone with any information relevant to the investigation.  It would then have been entirely appropriate for the mods to have closed the thread in order to prevent unwarranted speculation and accusations whilst the investigation was ongoing.  It looks like there should be a lot of learning points to come out of this episode.

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Compromise must be reached here. I have no details like most here but these guys are the future. Aside from one suspicious smoky green thing being let off at Stirling they were quite magnificent. Some sense from both sides please

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4 hours ago, CaleyJagsTogether said:

 

Secondly, the number of fans banned from the Motherwell (and the Motherwell bus only, not all subsequent buses) has been very much overstated. We have a duty to all of our regular travelling supporters to ensure that buses are run within the guidelines set by the bus company and to a standard that the majority of supporters feel is appropriate. This includes several young people who we know travel regularly with CJT

 

Is still doesn't make sense to ban the majority of them(apart from the ones you know!!!) for the Motherwell game. 

Fair enough your holding "meetings" with some of them but you should be give them another chance. After all it is the Scottish cup qualifier and not just a normal league game. 

What point does that prove? That you have authority over everyone who uses your bus? That misbehaving will result in a one match ban? 

Give them your viewes on what's acceptable tell them what they had done so they know at least then unban them TODAY.

We need all our fans and as much support to help our team into the next stage. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, CaleyJagsTogether said:

We would like to clarify our reasons for not responding to individual comments on this thread, and outline what steps we are taking to resolve what is clearly an emotive and important issue which directly impacts a small number of our supporters. 

 

 

 

Firstly, we are in the process of arranging meetings with the young people in question, with adult representatives where necessary, so that we can discuss fully with them the behaviour we expect from everyone who travels on the supporters buses, and what we feel was inappropriate behaviour on the Stirling Albion journey. It would be wholly inappropriate to discuss details of this on a public forum before meeting with the young people in person. Suffice to say, the issue was not about loud singing on the buses. 

 

 

 

Secondly, the number of fans banned from the Motherwell (and the Motherwell bus only, not all subsequent buses) has been very much overstated. We have a duty to all of our regular travelling supporters to ensure that buses are run within the guidelines set by the bus company and to a standard that the majority of supporters feel is appropriate. This includes several young people who we know travel regularly with CJT. 

 

 

 

We fully appreciate the concern shown on this forum and other social media about the importance of growing our young support and making fans of all ages feel welcome and included. We realise there has been some miscommunication with those involved and as soon as we have discussed the issue with the individuals concerned, we will inform our supporters through the appropriate channels. 

 

we still haven't been informed on what the misbehavior was, so are still unclear to why the ban is in place 

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On ‎01‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 11:32 AM, nopyronoparty94 said:

Over 30 people in the young team have been banned from the buses for singing on the way down to Stirling.. we pay £20 each week and make every game, to be told off for trying to create an atmosphere.. The club turning fans away even know we struggle to get 3k a home game! 

There appear to be ambiguous statements coming from both sides of this dispute which initially appeared on here through the quoted Original Post.... which I have to say looks like a classic example of adolescent distortion of the facts in response to the imposition of a sanction. You see this in schools on a daily basis with the offence always spun downwards, the sanction quite often spun upwards and the resulting conclusion always being that the treatment was "unfair" (q.v. Harry Enfield's Kevin The Teenager) and that those involved have been victimised. Reality almost invariably tells a different story.

Unfortunately, much of this thread has developed on the basis that the above hyperbolised claims were accurate. Perhaps CJT should have clarified the situation more quickly (although they did do so within around 24 hours of the OP), but perhaps they were reluctant to become involved in a public forum and perhaps they needed time to clarify their own position.

We also need to compare the OP above with this section of the CJT statement:- "Suffice to say, the issue was not about loud singing on the buses. Secondly, the number of fans banned from the Motherwell (and the Motherwell bus only, not all subsequent buses) has been very much overstated. We have a duty to all of our regular travelling supporters to ensure that buses are run within the guidelines set by the bus company and to a standard that the majority of supporters feel is appropriate. This includes several young people who we know travel regularly with CJT." and with the text signed "John Horne" which indicates that the ban is for the Motherwell game only, but on "all persons travelling on that bus".

This invites the following conclusions:- 1) It would appear that, in the best traditions of Kevin The Teenager, NPNP94 has gone out of his way to make light of the original offence. 2) NPNP94's statement "banned from the buses" implies a sanction rather more severe than the reality of just from the Motherwell bus. 3) There is inconsistency between the two CJT versions of who are banned since John Horne states "all persons" whereas the later statement says that the number involved "has been very much overstated". Whether or not this change is a result of subsequent discussion within CJT (and possible later identification of individual offenders?) is open to question.

However it does appear that much of this thread's ire is in response to an OP which is at best ambiguous and at worst disingenuous. Also, if NPNP94 has, as he claims, not been informed of the behaviour which led to the exclusion, why did he say in his OP that it was for "singing" which is arguably one of the post's most inflammatory features.

I would also like to know what level of adult supervision there was on a bus which appears to have been overwhelmingly full of kids - and indeed why a critical mass of potential difficulty was created by putting so many kids were put together in the same bus? I would certainly have expected a significant adult presence which, on the other hand, should have prevented things getting out of hand to the extent to which they appear to have.

 

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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I'd like to ask one of those affected, i.e. one of those who were on the bus a couple of questions. The answer may have a bearing on the seriousness of situation.

I've travelled on trains with a lot of the young brigade,mainly between Inverness and Dingwall, and as well as singing they love to get bouncing and rock the carraiges.

Was this what was happening on the bus? If it was were you all asked to stop? Was this the reason for the driver not being happy?

If answer to the first question was yes then this was a very stupid thing to be doing. If answer to all questions is yes then people have put themselves and others at serious risk of accident. A train moving quick pretty much sticks to the rails due to g-forces when cornering and downforces when in a straight line so it would take some very serious rocking and shaking to change its course of direction. A bus, on the other hand, will become extremely unstable if subjected to the same forces and could suddenly veer of course resulting in road carnage.

I'm in no way saying this was the scenario but its one I wonder at.

 

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6 hours ago, ictchris said:

CJT bus at 1700 on Saturday

bus+women.jpg

This photo could actually have been taken on the Caleyjagsforever bus on their way to Mosset Park,Forres in a pre season friendly a couple of years ago

The very same day they were baking cakes on the bus prior to the game and that folks is a true story

 

Dougal

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3 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

There appear to be ambiguous statements coming from both sides of this dispute which initially appeared on here through the quoted Original Post.... which I have to say looks like a classic example of adolescent distortion of the facts in response to the imposition of a sanction. You see this in schools on a daily basis with the offence always spun downwards, the sanction quite often spun upwards and the resulting conclusion always being that the treatment was "unfair" (q.v. Harry Enfield's Kevin The Teenager) and that those involved have been victimised. Reality almost invariably tells a different story.

Unfortunately, much of this thread has developed on the basis that the above hyperbolised claims were accurate. Perhaps CJT should have clarified the situation more quickly (although they did do so within around 24 hours of the OP), but perhaps they were reluctant to become involved in a public forum and perhaps they needed time to clarify their own position.

We also need to compare the OP above with this section of the CJT statement:- "Suffice to say, the issue was not about loud singing on the buses. Secondly, the number of fans banned from the Motherwell (and the Motherwell bus only, not all subsequent buses) has been very much overstated. We have a duty to all of our regular travelling supporters to ensure that buses are run within the guidelines set by the bus company and to a standard that the majority of supporters feel is appropriate. This includes several young people who we know travel regularly with CJT." and with the text signed "John Horne" which indicates that the ban is for the Motherwell game only, but on "all persons travelling on that bus".

This invites the following conclusions:- 1) It would appear that, in the best traditions of Kevin The Teenager, NPNP94 has gone out of his way to make light of the original offence. 2) NPNP94's statement "banned from the buses" implies a sanction rather more severe than the reality of just from the Motherwell bus. 3) There is inconsistency between the two CJT versions of who are banned since John Horne states "all persons" whereas the later statement says that the number involved "has been very much overstated". Whether or not this change is a result of subsequent discussion within CJT (and possible later identification of individual offenders?) is open to question.

However it does appear that much of this thread's ire is in response to an OP which is at best ambiguous and at worst disingenuous. Also, if NPNP94 has, as he claims, not been informed of the behaviour which led to the exclusion, why did he say in his OP that it was for "singing" which is arguably one of the post's most inflammatory features.

I would also like to know what level of adult supervision there was on a bus which appears to have been overwhelmingly full of kids - and indeed why a critical mass of potential difficulty was created by putting so many kids were put together in the same bus? I would certainly have expected a significant adult presence which, on the other hand, should have prevented things getting out of hand to the extent to which they appear to have.

 

 

 

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Gellions bus for Dundee away on 27th February is booked. It was just games now and then they would do before but looking to make it a regular thing. Get a supporters club going.

Looking for names for it. 

Would be good if all the boys who were on the cjt bus move over to the Gellions one now permanently. Singing and having fun is encouraged! 

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1 hour ago, Joe DiMaggio said:

Gellions bus for Dundee away on 27th February is booked. It was just games now and then they would do before but looking to make it a regular thing. Get a supporters club going.

Looking for names for it. 

Would be good if all the boys who were on the cjt bus move over to the Gellions one now permanently. Singing and having fun is encouraged! 

As a well educated man, I'm sure you are well aware that singing on a supporters bus would hardly constitute a bus suspension. 

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Ok, so I've just logged in and caught up on this thread.  I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed in a lot of the posts.

First of all let me make it clear, I wasn't at the game in Stirling, nor was I at the CJT board meeting which followed as I was away, so I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of what happened and who said what.

What I will say is that having a little information I am really saddened by some of the posts in this thread.  Not even the posts of the young people who feel they did nothing wrong, but the people who jumped on the bandwagon and should have known better.  Do you for 1 minute believe that the CJT board members in attendance would have a problem with singing and having fun?  These people are comitted to home and away games and much more while holding down full time jobs, family comittments etc into the bargain.  I know a few of them who are really hurt by many of the comments.

We are arranging to meet the boys on Friday night to discuss the events of the day and identify what is and isn't acceptable behaviour.  We are also happy to hear from them and what concerns and points they would like to raise.  Please note that this meeting is primarily for those who travelled on the bus to Stirling

I would hope to be able to post a better update when I am more aware of the facts and what the general feeling is on Friday night.

I hope that some of the people with strong feeling will consider standing for election at the upcoming AGM.

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2 hours ago, Joe DiMaggio said:

Gellions bus for Dundee away on 27th February is booked. It was just games now and then they would do before but looking to make it a regular thing. Get a supporters club going.

Looking for names for it. 

Would be good if all the boys who were on the cjt bus move over to the Gellions one now permanently. Singing and having fun is encouraged! 

My son was meant to be on bus 3 but slept in. We would be very interested in joining gellions buses and were hoping to go to Motherwell  but I'm not sure what to make of this. It's a thankless task organising things but I know a lot of the young fans fairly well and consider them committed and a real asset to the club. £20 for a bus add ticket and food etc and it's a pretty expensive and long day so fair play to them for supporting their local team. This will hopefully all come to an amicable and successful conclusion.

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Without obviously knowing the full extent of what occurred on bus 3 I can only comment based on what has been said so far.

First off I find it bizarre that if there was a prior concern about bus 3 being run with 30 'youths' on it, surely someone with a strong personality should be the bus supervisor, or even split them across all three buses? I don't mean to say whoever was supervising the bus done a poor job, but surely if alarm bells were ringing you would think a water tight plan would be created ie. If it was anticipated alcohol was going to be an issue - bag searches were taken as people got on the bus. With the size of our away support already small it amazes me we still try to alienate certain groups of fans instead of encouraging them to return.

A ban for one game to me is even more bizarre than a blanket ban. What sort of message does this send out?  - the behavior of everyone on the bus wasn't perfect so you miss the next match?

Everyone who is in change of Caley Jags Together to a man ( or woman) has done a remarkable job over the last few years with 3 semi finals and 2 finals to arrange transport for - but I do feel that a lack of youth representation within the group could be an issue? Someone with a different view on such issues and dare I say a less 'Politically correct' view would be a great addition.


The joint statement regarding the so called Pyro to me was very bizarre and within seconds of reading it I knew exactly the reaction it would create and I can assure you it was not the desired one.

As far as running bus's goes, I have run a few in my time.If you can confirm numbers it would be great and I would run a bus/minibus every week - But numbers can fluctuate so much it can often work out at running at a loss As these young boys done, it could be an idea to outsource a bus to groups. But I guess that wouldn't ensure ' responsible behavior' was enforced.

 

Edited by jamie ictfc
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As someone who has been travelling to the majority of away games for the last four seasons, most of which have been using the bus provided by CJT I am completely bamboozled as to why they have taken the decision to prevent me from travelling to Motherwell. I have never had any issues with CJT before and am really quite angered after giving my service to them for so long. It is the young fans who kept the bus going at times as we have already seen when we never went to Celtic or Mitherwell earlier this season they failed to even run a bus due to such low numbers. I am now completely discouraged by travelling on this service in future and it seems to me they have really shot themselves in the foot on this matter. I don't know why they think they have the right to prevent fans from travelling to an away game when our numbers are so low. 

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