Jump to content

David Raven


ed

Recommended Posts

49 minutes ago, Sneckboy said:

I was going to start a Poll asking who the fans consider to be our best ever right-back. But, it would clearly be a bit of a 'loaded' question with an obvious agenda, in light of the recent reports surrounding Raven's likely departure!

But, I was also struggling to recall enough players to justify a Poll.
I've not had the chance to look up former players, but off-the-top-of-my-head, I've only got:

  • David Proctor
  • David Raven
  • Mike Teasdale
  • Ross Tokely

Obviously, players like Graerme Shinnie, and Josh Meekings have slotted in there at times - but who am I overlooking? Somebody obvious? :laugh:

How could you forget Thomas Piermayr?! And even Tom Parratt!

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

:laugh: Of course!
It's the same with left-backs...Stuart Golabek, Richard Hastings and Graeme Shinnie are the only guys that spring to  mind. Possibly Kenny Gillet - and Lionel!
But, It shows that players have made these positions 'their own' at the club for a number of seasons - and we haven't been chopping and changing all the time.

Continuity is particularly important in defence, which is all the more reason to feel disappointed that Raven is probably leaving!

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, jaggiesoverstaggies said:

BBC sport article on this up now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36114065

JH basically says that he wants to concentrate on forward positions in terms of contracts and Dave probably will have to be released because of this. No decision has been made though.

...and yet he is happy to spend money paying wages to defenders far inferior to Raven both in terms of reliability and commitment.....

  • Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As we all know Hughes likes to emphases keeping these developments in house (most of the time), but here he's almost thinking out loud about Raven's future.  Is it really as he says?  I doubt it.  What his comments say to me, is that this is a definite invitation to other clubs to him sign a pre-contract.  He wants another club to swoop in and sign him so he can turn round and say 'Nothing to do with me, it's out of my control'.  This is a pre-planned move by Yogi, no question about it and I for one think far less of him because of it.

Edited by Renegade
  • Agree 5
  • Disagree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's a pre-planned move, considering Raven himself was pleading for a contract earlier in the season. It will be JH's fault if one of our rivals snaps him up and the fans will be well aware of that. 

To me, his comments don't make much sense. If we don't give Raven a new deal, and we only look to sign attacking players for next season, that leaves absolutely no cover at the back. We would literally have 5 defenders. Meekings isn't a natural right back and his partnership with Warren was pivotal to our success last year, so what's the rationale in breaking up that partnership. 

Like others, I always try to be supportive of Yogi as if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have had such success last season, but his decision making and comments to the media over the last season has made that more and more difficult. It's probably not only the fans that will be fuming at this decision, but the players too. He better hope he has a positive start to next season, or the fans will be calling for his head in no time. 

  • Agree 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

...and huge vocal support for the idea from the North Stand on Saturday. The manager and board need to be left in no doubt about the views of the overwhelming majority of fans on the matter.

Agree. Hope the manager gets the fans view on this loud and clear on Sunday. 

  • Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jaggiesoverstaggies said:

BBC sport article on this up now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36114065

JH basically says that he wants to concentrate on forward positions in terms of contracts and Dave probably will have to be released because of this. No decision has been made though.

These comments from Yogi give me no confidence in his management ability. We have 3 defenders, and 2 midfielders signed for next season (excluding Foran and Esson, who are unlikely first teamers IMO). So, if Hughes thinks that blowing the budget on a striker will solve all his problems, he has failed to grasp the concept that a football team has 11 players and a club needs a squad of about 20!

Right back is a need at the moment and the incumbent is quality. Sign him up. Then see how the budget looks for the rest. This should all have been sorted months ago and he would have had fewer gaps to fill and a clearer idea of budget. Poor planning.

  • Agree 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having read the BBC article all I can say is that John Hughes hasn't got a clue. Nothing he says ever makes much sense anyway but in this case he is totally wrong. I can only hope that he realises the error of his ways and offers Raven a contract NOW. 

  • Agree 5
  • Disagree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hughes is not saying he definitely won't offer Raven a contract but clearly he is not going to if he is successful with his other signing priorities.  Leaving aside his stated priority for quality up front, he still only has 3 defenders signed up so there is a need to do some work on that front.  Devine is not signed up yet so presumably Hughes thinks Devine as a centre back and  Meekings at RB is a better option than Meekings in the centre and Raven at RB.  That's not my preference for sure.  But even if you accept that, where's the cover?  Is he planning on having all our defensive cover coming from the development squad?  However you look at it, it makes no sense not to offer Raven a contract.

Interestingly, he talks about finishing as high up the league to get that bit more money in.  So just how tight are the club's finances after last year's success and the sale of Christie?  There certainly seems to be something worrying about the financial position. 

Perhaps some contracts will be signed once survival is assured as players will not want to commit to the club and then find they are playing Championship football next year.  Even more need, therefore to ensure we win on Sunday.  Maybe then there can be something confirmed about David's future.

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

 

Interestingly, he talks about finishing as high up the league to get that bit more money in.  So just how tight are the club's finances after last year's success and the sale of Christie?  There certainly seems to be something worrying about the financial position. 

This is an interesting point.  The £100k sale of Mckay, a fifth place finish, the League Cup Final, the Scottish Cup Final, a third place finish, the £500k sale of Christie and Europe and just a few months ago, the club were heralding the fact they'd made a profit and that's without including the latter three.  Now we all know the club doesn't have a big wage budget anyway and as far as I'm aware, the club haven't paid any transfer fees (certainly not of a significant size anyway), nor is it as if there's anything massive that the club's invested in (building a new stadium for example) over the last year either.  So where's the money gone?  This is increasingly becoming a question no-one seems to know the answer to.

Edited by Renegade
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/04/2016 at 3:32 PM, Renegade said:

 

 

58 minutes ago, Renegade said:

This is an interesting point.  The £100k sale of Mckay, a fifth place finish, the League Cup Final, the Scottish Cup Final, a third place finish, the £500k sale of Christie and Europe and just a few months ago, the club were heralding the fact they'd made a profit and that's without including the latter three.  Now we all know the club doesn't have a big wage budget anyway and as far as I'm aware, the club haven't paid any transfer fees (certainly not of a significant size anyway), nor is it as if there's anything massive that the club's invested in (building a new stadium for example) over the last year either.  So where's the money gone?  This is increasingly becoming a question no-one seems to know the answer to.

I would hazard a guess that it's being saved for a rainy day or went towards our latest arrivals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a couple of points to reality check our income

1. ICT runs at a loss without additional prize money from cups, transfers, league position etc so much of the increased revenue will have allowed for a modest profit at best. 

2. ICT pays a low wage and typically has a pretty decent bonus payment for performance. This would eat into our cup and final league placing prize money. 

3. Playing in the Europa League likely cost us money instead of making us money. 

I have no idea of the exact numbers recently, but the economics of a club like ICT are not as straightforward as saying every penny in is or can be a windfall for the manager. Those tasked with the stewardship of the club have done a pretty good job of managing our meagre finances year by year and it is to their credit that we have not faced more of the drama that saw us come close to going to the wall a few years after we were formed.   

 

  • Agree 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DoofersDad said:

Hughes is not saying he definitely won't offer Raven a contract but clearly he is not going to if he is successful with his other priorities

Fair point, DD, but again you question the merits of voicing this in public. If I were DR, I'd sign my pre-contract with County immediately: The undertone is "we'll only sign him if our other targets turn us down and we have to scrape the bottom of the barrel". Well, thank you very much indeed - I'm glad you value my services so much!

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Scotty said:

a couple of points to reality check our income

1. ICT runs at a loss without additional prize money from cups, transfers, league position etc so much of the increased revenue will have allowed for a modest profit at best. 

2. ICT pays a low wage and typically has a pretty decent bonus payment for performance. This would eat into our cup and final league placing prize money. 

3. Playing in the Europa League likely cost us money instead of making us money. 

I have no idea of the exact numbers recently, but the economics of a club like ICT are not as straightforward as saying every penny in is or can be a windfall for the manager. Those tasked with the stewardship of the club have done a pretty good job of managing our meagre finances year by year and it is to their credit that we have not faced more of the drama that saw us come close to going to the wall a few years after we were formed.   

 

This is spot-on, Scotty. I don't envy the board - it's a tough gig to run a business with so many uncertainties from year to year. There is no doubt we are punching above our weight (measured in fans) and to retain our status will require (a) prudent financial control (b) outstanding management (c) an innovative recruitment and retention policy and (d) a huge slice of luck. (d) by definition is unreliable; my real concern is that (b) and (c) has not been good enough this year and the risk is that we will soon be punching at or below our weight - the Championship. The DR issue is prime example of the deficiencies of (c).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Sneckboy said:

Another pic of Raven in happier times!
Looks like the last 'survivor' from this photo is also on-his-way. This photo is from just 12 months ago (almost to the day!)

Raven.jpg

Strange how every player in that photo has left us

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This decision has nothing to do with finances. Raven seems to be a good honest professional who has done an outstanding job for us and would continue to do so. There is a definite link between our average performance this season and Raven's absence. This decision is Hughes doing and could be a turning point in the fans relationship not only with him but the Club.

  • Agree 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Ok, so in relation to this thread.....

.... what would you prefer, for instance, in a situation like this? Information created by a club, or information gleaned and processed by professional journalists seeking the facts?

 

And where does the journalist get his facts from if not from sources, be they official or unofficial, associated with the club?

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's nice to see everyone coming together to stand up for one of our most universally liked players. He's never let us down and represents our club well on and off the pitch. A warm, welcoming, happy, familial workplace environment makes a huge difference to any professional, and has been a hallmark of our success over the years. It's almost part of our clubs identity. If managment start treating our players like garbage, as in this case, all of that will unravel. Brewsters aloofness and callous man managment was his undoing. Sadly Yogi looks like following in his footsteps. 

  • Agree 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, PerfICT said:

Fair point, DD, but again you question the merits of voicing this in public. If I were DR, I'd sign my pre-contract with County immediately: The undertone is "we'll only sign him if our other targets turn us down and we have to scrape the bottom of the barrel". Well, thank you very much indeed - I'm glad you value my services so much!

Spot on - to say this publicly shows a really poor grasp of man management. Even if by some miracle DR does stay how much respect will he have for a manager who effectively said he's not good enough to stay? The momentum and feel-good factor generated last season has been totally undone. Partly this has been beyond the Club's control with injuries and key players going on to bigger and better things. However the Board seems to have gone AWOL and JH has got carried away with his own hype and is increasingly making baffling tactical decisions and clumsy statements. Someone at the Club needs to be man enough to tell Yogi to take the blinkers off. 

  • Agree 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. : Terms of Use : Guidelines : Privacy Policy