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12 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

True fans will always have a relationship with the club but I agree it could be a turning point or tipping point for the manager.

The Club is bigger than anything and anyone. Has anyone tarnished the name of the club by their recent actions ?

 

11 hours ago, Yngwie said:

Raven hasn't left! Oh, and I think that might be Tremarco's tattooed arm?

 Just as I was falling into the depths of despair salvation has come. We still have Tremarco's left arm. Oh No - think again ? Was that the arm that dragged somebody back in the cup final ?

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John Hughes was extremely lucky to get the job as our manager in the first place. No other team in our position would of gone near him. In my view he is now degrading the club and our ambitions by his

It's nice to see everyone coming together to stand up for one of our most universally liked players. He's never let us down and represents our club well on and off the pitch. A warm, welcoming, happy,

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27 minutes ago, Stirling Observer said:

My interpretation of yogis comments is Raven may be a high earner at the club and Hughes feels he wants those wages freed up. If true, I doubt Doran will be offered a new contract. Just my take on it

Hughes is quoted in the P & J as saying that Doran is his main priority once he has sorted out a new deal for Tansey.

I've no idea what kind of wage Raven might be on but I can't imagine it would be one of the highest at the club. I'm pretty flummoxed by this bizarre episode. If money is tight and we can only afford to retain a certain number of defenders whilst strengthening the forward line (fair enough on the surface actually) surely you keep your best defenders which to pretty much everyone on here would be Tremarco, Warren, Meekings and Raven but Hughes seems to prefer playing Devine at CB and Meekings at RB thus squeezing out Raven. Very odd.

Of course there is the real possibility that the whole wages thing is just a cover story for the fact that Hughes just doesn't like the guy.

As others have said there are slight similarities to Tokely and Munro leaving but I would say that they were a bit more past it than Raven but for the most part Butcher was better at sourcing replacements. With Hughes I just don't trust his ability to source out adequate replacements for when we lost players. As Renegade (I think) mentioned, given the difficulty we have in getting players to come up here we find ourselves with a dependable, competent right back, who wants to stay, is part of our best defensive line up and is unlikely to command a high wage yet we are looking likely to release him. Mind boggling.

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6 minutes ago, RiG said:

Hughes is quoted in the P & J as saying that Doran is his main priority once he has sorted out a new deal for Tansey.

I've no idea what kind of wage Raven might be on but I can't imagine it would be one of the highest at the club. I'm pretty flummoxed by this bizarre episode. If money is tight and we can only afford to retain a certain number of defenders whilst strengthening the forward line (fair enough on the surface actually) surely you keep your best defenders which to pretty much everyone on here would be Tremarco, Warren, Meekings and Raven but Hughes seems to prefer playing Devine at CB and Meekings at RB thus squeezing out Raven. Very odd.

Of course there is the real possibility that the whole wages thing is just a cover story for the fact that Hughes just doesn't like the guy.

As others have said there are slight similarities to Tokely and Munro leaving but I would say that they were a bit more past it than Raven but for the most part Butcher was better at sourcing replacements. With Hughes I just don't trust his ability to source out adequate replacements for when we lost players. As Renegade (I think) mentioned, given the difficulty we have in getting players to come up here we find ourselves with a dependable, competent right back, who wants to stay, is part of our best defensive line up and is unlikely to command a high wage yet we are looking likely to release him. Mind boggling.

Ah, missed the Doran comment. I would hope Doran will be signed on a reduced wage. Big gamble given his injuries. Can't see many clubs after him for this very reason

 

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50 minutes ago, RiG said:

Hughes is quoted in the P & J as saying that Doran is his main priority once he has sorted out a new deal for Tansey.

I've no idea what kind of wage Raven might be on but I can't imagine it would be one of the highest at the club. I'm pretty flummoxed by this bizarre episode. If money is tight and we can only afford to retain a certain number of defenders whilst strengthening the forward line (fair enough on the surface actually) surely you keep your best defenders which to pretty much everyone on here would be Tremarco, Warren, Meekings and Raven but Hughes seems to prefer playing Devine at CB and Meekings at RB thus squeezing out Raven. Very odd.

Of course there is the real possibility that the whole wages thing is just a cover story for the fact that Hughes just doesn't like the guy.

As others have said there are slight similarities to Tokely and Munro leaving but I would say that they were a bit more past it than Raven but for the most part Butcher was better at sourcing replacements. With Hughes I just don't trust his ability to source out adequate replacements for when we lost players. As Renegade (I think) mentioned, given the difficulty we have in getting players to come up here we find ourselves with a dependable, competent right back, who wants to stay, is part of our best defensive line up and is unlikely to command a high wage yet we are looking likely to release him. Mind boggling.

Totally agree - some of the comments in the press which are assigned to Hughes are mind boggling. Of course they could be taken out of context but as a player or board member I would be pretty disappointed to be reading that type of thing in the press this morning. If this is Raven's last season with us there are better ways of going about it. Potentially looks like we will be back to another pre-season of scrambling around for players to make up the numbers in our squad. Maybe we are just seeing another step in the great unravelling.  

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1 hour ago, RiG said:

Hughes is quoted in the P & J as saying that Doran is his main priority once he has sorted out a new deal for Tansey.

 

Doran's agent is just going to love that!  What an idiotic thing to say.

In any case, isn't Tansey already signed up?  Suggests to me that there is an offer in for him which the club is prepared to accept, but that Tansey would like to stay if his personal terms can be improved.  Again, not something that should be in the public domain.

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Just for context, although it is going a wee bit OT, Hughes says that "the first thing" he wants to do is "tie up Greg" (oo er) as he is pivotal to the way ICT play and although he has a year left of his contract Hughes wants to tie him up and "committed to the club." He continues "after Greg we're probably looking at Aaron.....another who excites me at the top end of the pitch."

For Raven Hughes says that "No decision has been made.....we're sitting waiting to see where we are going to finish.....it seems very unlikely he will get something......I want to invest in the top end of the field.....someone has to be sacrificed......I'm not saying it's David but it might have to be."

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I might be slightly blinked in that I like Raven, i have to say I find the way we do business is bizarre to say the least. It is as difficult to understand  as is the way we play and who we use. I am not sure but since our last assistant manager left our forward play has been chambolic. I will be pleased when this season is over, we went from a dream team to a chambolic team albeit we did lose players.

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So basically depending on what donkeys Huges unearths Raven may or may not get a deal. Raven must be pretty unhappy with the manager. Time surely for the Chairman to step in here. At least Raven knows the fans value him

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Well that was awful viewing. Essentially saying that he doesn't really want to keep Raven keep but maybe he will but only as a last resort. What an awful message to say to the fans and the players and what an awful way to treat a loyal player to this club. 

Edited by Renegade
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Like other posters, I hope this gets resolved and Raven stays. There are two images I will never forget:

1. The sheer joy and surprise on his face when he scored the winner in the semi against Celtic.

2. Whilst I was sobering up in Glasgow so only saw it on You Tube, his leading of the singing at the celebrations after the final.

I agree, let's make "Stand by me" our song for the rest of the season!

 

 

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On 21/04/2016 at 9:56 PM, izzy said:

Youre getting " sacked in the morning " aimed at Yogi does it for me !!

3 hours ago, CaleyD said:

From the horse's mouth....

 

That was effin awful viewing.

He does not seem to know we are playing Sunday not Saturday as he suggested more than once.

Spinning plates is truly awful patter even in the world of sales (which I'm in) 

All faith ( for me )is lost in the guy now which is a shame because after last season the potential was there however, his dialogue is truly awful and like it or not it must transfer directly to the dressing room and player morale.

Finally I'm willing to guess that this top quality up top he is sacrificing our best players for will in fact going by his previous signings be utter shi...dross

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If hes sacrificing 2 or 3 players like raven for someone quality up top, im expecting a quality striker coming in on record club salary. While we know up front its been light this season should we not be reducing holding and defensive midfielders instead of getting rid of our only natural right back. This all suggests he is keeping horner but more worrying who else will go.

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OK - I'm going to stir the pot here. Yogi implies that his priorities are (1) Doran (2) extended contract for Tansey - if these fall through, he might entertain something for Raven... If he's lucky.

Here's what I'd suggest as an alternative (controversial!):

1. If there's an offer on the table for Tansey, sell him and put the alleged £200k in the kitty.

2. Sign Raven on an enhanced salary because he's worth it.

3. Forget about Doran - he's allegedly the Highest earner at the club and we have no idea what he'll be like after a terrible injury.

4. Use the earnings from Tansey and savings from Doran to bring in a decent front line and attacking midfield.

 

Note: I really like Tansey and Doran, so this is not a reflection of their quality, BUT, if we are going to lose players, I'd prefer them to go for a fee (Tansey) or because there's an injury doubt (Doran) than on a free (Raven).

Edited by PerfICT
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56 minutes ago, PerfICT said:

OK - I'm going to stir the pot here. Yogi implies that his priorities are (1) Doran (2) extended contract for Tansey - if these fall through, he might entertain something for Raven... If he's lucky.

Here's what I'd suggest as an alternative (controversial!):

1. If there's an offer on the table for Tansey, sell him and put the alleged £200k in the kitty.

2. Sign Raven on an enhanced salary because he's worth it.

3. Forget about Doran - he's allegedly the Hughes earner at the club and we have no idea what he'll be like after a terrible injury.

4. Use the earnings from Tansey and savings from Doran to bring in a decent front line and attacking midfield.

 

Note: I really like Tansey and Doran, so this is not a reflection of their quality, BUT, if we are going to lose players, I'd prefer them to go for a fee (Tansey) or because there's an injury doubt (Doran) than on a free (Raven).

Quality post.

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John Hughes was extremely lucky to get the job as our manager in the first place. No other team in our position would of gone near him. In my view he is now degrading the club and our ambitions by his negative comments. This was our season to progress and establish ourselves as a Premier League club but this has not happenend. Hughes continually talks us down and his negativity must surely detract players from wanting to join us. When you have a solid, consistent and very good player like David Raven desperate to sign a new contract and you decide not to, in my view it is a disgrace. We are Inverness Caledonian Thistle, we know we are not world beaters and are not  going to win cups every season but we want to see players with heart and passion who want to wear our shirt and sweat blood and tears for us and David Raven is this kind of player. I for one feel Hughes is forgetting about the essence of our club and taking us down a road many of us will not want to follow. 

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It also does seem a very late stage in the endgame for this season NOT to have already discussed, at least a couple of months ago, and decided upon which players the club wants to let go or re-sign. Why leave it until virtually the very last minute? Thus leaving the impression, surely, that indecision reigns.

Perhaps there is not really very substantive animosity between the Manager and Dave Raven after all, merely the Manager's wavering thoughts on what money to spend and who to retain etc., contributing to the dissatisfaction of some players as to what exactly their future is now at the club. Silence on such issues may be golden but uncertainty  is more destructive than the possession of knowledge as far as players are concerned. Not to mention trust.

But if David has been openly critical of the Manager's tactics in the dressing room in front of him then JH may well feel that this cannot be tolerated and that any such comments should be made to him in private face-to-face. If he is right,  then the player  has made his own bed to lie on and  cannot complain too loudly if he attracts negativity to himself from the Manager as a result.

Truth is that we , on the outside, don't know all the facts and the subtleties of the various interactions within the dressing room. But it looks like a lack of communication, possibly including a lack of upfront honesty perhaps on both sides of the coin, could be eating away at the inner fabric of the club at the dressing room level which involves most, if not all, of the real movers and shakers at the club--i.e. both the players and the Manager.

For those who call for the head of the manager as the solution to all problems, will a change of boss make  any difference now? Think about it. If the issue is not allowed to continue to fester then no.

Somebody with a strong character and a cool head needs to step in as a mediator. And this process should include putting all the cards, including the financial ones, on the table - which may backfire but at least everybody  involved should know where they stand thereafter. In any business the employees want to know what management is thinking about the preservation of the business, the reasons for plans and what effect all this thinking will have on their future. Uncertainty about the future of their employer and fear for their livelihoods contributes little to the sense of stability and confidence in the minds of players and staff ; not to mention their capacity to commit 100% to their role in the club and putting in their very best efforts out FOR that club.

IMHO.

 

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1 hour ago, SteveA said:

John Hughes was extremely lucky to get the job as our manager in the first place. No other team in our position would of gone near him. In my view he is now degrading the club and our ambitions by his negative comments. This was our season to progress and establish ourselves as a Premier League club but this has not happenend. Hughes continually talks us down and his negativity must surely detract players from wanting to join us. When you have a solid, consistent and very good player like David Raven desperate to sign a new contract and you decide not to, in my view it is a disgrace. We are Inverness Caledonian Thistle, we know we are not world beaters and are not  going to win cups every season but we want to see players with heart and passion who want to wear our shirt and sweat blood and tears for us and David Raven is this kind of player. I for one feel Hughes is forgetting about the essence of our club and taking us down a road many of us will not want to follow. 

The green dots for this post reflect the feelings of fans. I dread to think what our season ticket sales and gate receipts will be like next season. 

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On 22 April 2016 at 5:00 PM, jaggiesoverstaggies said:

BBC sport article on this up now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36114065

JH basically says that he wants to concentrate on forward positions in terms of contracts and Dave probably will have to be released because of this. No decision has been made though.

And he had made such a success of signing forwards during his tenure!

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Reading between the lines, I see it as Hughes feeling that Raven is a good earner, in a position where he feels that is adequately covered (Horner and Meekings plus others at a push) and Raven is out of contract therefore it's an opportunity to free up a good wage. I'm not saying that I agree with this, but I think that's the rationale. 

And objectively speaking I understand this theory- We have been lacking up front and sacrificing wages further back (where a young defender needing a deal could be easier to find than a striker) seems logical. 

In saying that Dave is not only one of our most experienced players, and Mr reliable, he's also one of our better players. When you have the Rave at right back it's a position you don't have to worry about. He's got it covered. 

And whilst ok we need to free up wages, I get that... But why do we then keep signing midfielders that hardly play/have an impact? Ryan Williams, Liam Hughes, Nate Wedderburn. Could easily punt 2 of any one of them. Plus we're freeing up wages from Williams and Vincent.

Lopez has moved on. 

We're already committed to moving 2 on. Could move on at least 1 of those midfielders there (whilst retaining Polworth, Vigurs, Tansey, Draper etc)

Are we going to keep Fisher? Can we keep Storey, What about Mbuyi-Mutombo? 

Are we really that desperate for wages for a striker we HAVE to sacrifice Raven? 

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