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Harry Chibber

Blind Happy Clappers

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Getting pissed off yet? 

Where's the money? 

Hughes was used as a scapegoat for the lack of investment and ineptitude from the board... you only have to look around the SPFL to see it is littered with players that should still be wearing an ICT shirt if we had been proactive with contracts or offered a competitive salary.  We don't know what was going on behind closed doors but I imagine it was a constant argument between Hughes and the board whilst he tried to get something off them.. when he got nowhere he tried to force the clubs hands through the media (not very classy).  I don't blame him and still maintain he is the best manager we have ever had at the club and we paid his severance package the next season after he won us the Scottish Cup and got the club in Europe.. madness!

We now have Foran, who wouldn't have been my choice but you can't doubt his commitment to the club.. understandable considering he must be one of our highest ever paid players and was given a 4 year contract which he was injured throughout (not his fault though).   I have been impressed with his interviews and would love him to become the manager the board expects him to be ... but he is being hung out to dry here and NEEDS money to sign players or it's only a matter of time before the fans turn on him and it is not his fault. 

We hare going backwards.. not only on the pitch but off it.  

I was looking after my daughter today so couldn't make the match .. been struggling a lot over the last few seasons to get to games but don't care any less about our future. 

This isn't an overreaction to the 5-1 .. it's been on the cards for a long time.  5 subs on the bench today, none of them that you could argue should start (maybe Doran) ... there is no competition for places and although I do think there is quality in the 11 that were picked today complacency is inevitable.

Some of our fans need to wake up and see that we can't keep letting players leave the club for nothing and I hold the board solely responsible for the situation we are in at the moment. Might only be the start of the season but we are almost nailed on for relegation due to lack of investment and planning.

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Share your concerns but let's not go overboard on demanding spending. The way Celtic are spending, and Rangers are back to spending money they don't have - do we really want to be part of a Scottish Football that repeats all the mistakes of the past?

It's early days and things may yet change - but I do fear an onslaught of 'WHY THE NEGATIVITY?????? GET BEHIND THE TEAM AND BELIEEEEEVE!!!!!' posts.

 

 

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We scored that's good the last I heard it was 5-0.

We played Terry Butcher style football and we did ok.

Hughes came in and we went backwards and it wasn't just for one game, he wanted us to play a certain way. When we had 4 defenders to pass and 3 of our players are in front of the ball it seemed better to pass back to the goalie if a forward pass was too much of a gamble and play against 11 again.

He played a 442 with Falkirk and brought it here changing to a 244 in attack.  Against Aberdeen he had Josh and Garry too far up the park and too wide. Josh ma Guinness just ran in between them and had them 4-0 up by half time. He didn't change anything after the 1 st goal only at half time. His latter games were very gung ho and we dropped loads of points at the end of matches. Against Hearts last season he calmed things down at the end and settled for a point.It didn't happen often though.

Hughes is a good bloke, he played a game of patience with his football and it worked wonders in cup games.

Terry was more direct with defence sitting back with protection from midfield and long balls to 3 Irish guys who ran riot.

We have a new manager who needs to cut his teeth somehow and it's a steep learning curve. It would have been a safer option as an assistant but our frugal club must see something in him to offer him the post with 4 years thrown in. 

I will be warming the hands up for a good bit of happy clapping on Saturday and feel the need to be a bit more vocal too.

Edited by 12th Man
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I would love to see us spend more to strengthen the squad, but the reality is that there is no cash. Foran clearly has the choice of El Alagui OR a defender - we need both and more besides!

Hughes wasn't a scapegoat - he boxed the board into a corner and got what he wanted (out with a pay-off). That cost more valuable cash and forced the only decision possible, which was for Foran to be manager. The 4 year contract seemed generous, but I suspect RF had the upper hand in those negotiations.

So, we are where we are financially and the reason for it is small attendances. The players we have are good enough to stay up, but a couple more injuries and we are truly stuffed. RF needs to get the motivation and organisation right and do it quickly. The last thing he needed was a poor start, but he needs to get these guys really playing for him and get them better organised.

If the choice is premiership security or financial security, I vote for financial.

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Not yet our worst start to a season. That was 07/08 with six straight defeats. Not been to a game yet but what I'm hearing is we have no defense. Plenty possession and we are going forward and refraining from the pass backs. I'm hopeful that we just haven't gelled yet. We're playing a different system. We've a few new players and some returning from long term injury all needing to be fitted in and relearn each other. One win to boost confidence and we could go on a spree

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1 hour ago, Harry Chibber said:

We now have Foran, who wouldn't have been my choice but you can't doubt his commitment to the club.. understandable considering he must be one of our highest ever paid players and was given a 4 year contract which he was injured throughout (not his fault though).   I have been impressed with his interviews and would love him to become the manager the board expects him to be ... but he is being hung out to dry here and NEEDS money to sign players or it's only a matter of time before the fans turn on him and it is not his fault. 

You seem to be absolving the manager of responsibility for the most awful, embarrasing month in our history (and it's not over yet!).

Was it lack of money that made us lose to part-time Alloa? Or to be well beaten by Partick and County, whose budgets can't be significantly different to ours?

Was it lack of money that has caused our experienced, established defenders and keeper to suddenly leak soft goals all over the place, with some seriously amateur defending?

Was it the board that chose the summer signings, who, so far at least, seem to have very little to offer?

I feel sorry for Foran just now and hope it is just a case of a rookie manager finding his feet, working out the best way for the team to play, and learning from his mistakes along the way.

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Yes Alex we are playing to a different system - battering it forward at all times and hoping for a break!

But as you say not our worst start to the season - however possibly the most concerning? Given our lack depth in the squad, the reduction in home support and the unlikelihood of immediate outside investment as a season ticket holder since day one I feel that the club are faltering badly.

I would question the salary/spending policy of the current board/chairman - as somebody recently asked can this club survive on player salaries of £50,000 plus? Older fans/shareholders will remember the days when the club cemented their days in the top league whilst the top paid players earned around the £30,000 threshold.

Obviously times change but the club MUST live within it's means and, after the recent cup runs and player sales , to see us toiling in several fronts is not good?

For the first time in a long time (possibly ever) Ross County are undoubtedly ahead of us both on and off the field and that doesn't bare well for the future.

 

  

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48 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

You seem to be absolving the manager of responsibility for the most awful, embarrasing month in our history (and it's not over yet!).

Was it lack of money that made us lose to part-time Alloa? Or to be well beaten by Partick and County, whose budgets can't be significantly different to ours?

Was it lack of money that has caused our experienced, established defenders and keeper to suddenly leak soft goals all over the place, with some seriously amateur defending?

Was it the board that chose the summer signings, who, so far at least, seem to have very little to offer?

I feel sorry for Foran just now and hope it is just a case of a rookie manager finding his feet, working out the best way for the team to play, and learning from his mistakes along the way.

Not absolving him but right now I don't think there would be a more difficult job for a rookie manager to walk into... got to look at who appointed him.  What were they expecting? He's lost key squad players and from what I've seen the best replacements we have is only on loan and a striker that was playing non-league in England before (it isn't always going to work).  

To be clear, I do not expect unreasonable spending or even a transfer fee but there must be money to replace what we've lost .... maybe 1 player for the fans to get excited about.  As it stands, I don't expect the players out of contract for next season to stick about (I'm thinking Draper & Meekings).  If not signing anyone .. at least get these contracts extended now so they can't walk away for nothing  

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Regardless of the Hughes/board and press issues which led to his sacking/resigining there was a strong voice from many fans before then, that they wanted Hughes out as he had huge budgets and reverted to boring football. While at times it was tepid, negative and often lacked entertainment perhaps what we really are seeing is that the squad isnt as good as we (the fans) think it was and perhaps he played this way beacuse we kept gradually getting weaker loosing players like McKay, Christie, Watkins, Ofere where the goals and creativity came from - maybe Hughes had no choice and keeping us at the level we were and the success we had was a bigger achievement than some would ever like to acknowledge.

I'm all for giving time to a new manager, but calls for increased budgets are not practical, we have had number for key players (OFW, Draper, tansey, Warren, meekings, raven, tremarco, vigurs, polly) all sign up on longer deals - do people not think these will be on increased wages over previous contracts these guys had? Our 'core' wage will will have increased thus leaving less for the other players - sadly this is the price of success a trying to keep players and ward off other interested parties. We failed with top 6 last season, no cup finals and no increased foot fall - there is nowhere for extra cash to come from. People may cite the Christie transfer fee, how much has been paid is unclear or the terms, but with the horrendous injuries last year extra players had to be brought in and the Storey loan had a fee - its likely there is nothing of this left.

Foran will need to work with what we have and adopt tactics that play to what we have, the signs arent good but we still have time. The next 3 games are very hard and I worry that after 6 games we could be still on zero points and been giving another couple of heavy defeats against the Dons & Celtic. Those who say its not Forans fault, if it was Hughes fault the tactics we played last year then it has to be Forans now - he picks the team and decides on how to play. Lets hope the learning curve is not too steep.

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Aye it's been a pish start to the season, we should absolutely be spending money we don't have on players we can't afford. That always ends well for clubs. 

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2 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

Regardless of the Hughes/board and press issues which led to his sacking/resigining there was a strong voice from many fans before then, that they wanted Hughes out as he had huge budgets and reverted to boring football. While at times it was tepid, negative and often lacked entertainment perhaps what we really are seeing is that the squad isnt as good as we (the fans) think it was and perhaps he played this way beacuse we kept gradually getting weaker loosing players like McKay, Christie, Watkins, Ofere where the goals and creativity came from - maybe Hughes had no choice and keeping us at the level we were and the success we had was a bigger achievement than some would ever like to acknowledge.

Definitely agree with this .. we couldn't be as expressive because we didn't have the players to compete so instead we had to be smart in possession, which was perceived as negative tactics. Possibly what Foran is finding out now that we don't have the quality to open up against teams. 

Quote

People may cite the Christie transfer fee, how much has been paid is unclear or the terms, but with the horrendous injuries last year extra players had to be brought in and the Storey loan had a fee - its likely there is nothing of this left.

I don't buy it at all.  The largest transfer fee we have ever received has been eaten up by one loan deal and 3 short term deals? You make a good point about the increased contracts (although not all the players mentioned are on long term contracts) but we have also moved high earners like Shinnie and Mckay off the wage bill.  We have not increased spending to an extent that would eat up that amount of money and the rest of the profit taken from that season.  By that logic we must have been making a loss on previous seasons because we have never received that sort of money in one season and probably wont again. I can't believe that our fans are being so tolerant and not asking questions about this ... 

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Harry Chibber said:

I don't buy it at all.  The largest transfer fee we have ever received has been eaten up by one loan deal and 3 short term deals? You make a good point about the increased contracts (although not all the players mentioned are on long term contracts) but we have also moved high earners like Shinnie and Mckay off the wage bill.  We have not increased spending to an extent that would eat up that amount of money and the rest of the profit taken from that season.  By that logic we must have been making a loss on previous seasons because we have never received that sort of money in one season and probably wont again. I can't believe that our fans are being so tolerant and not asking questions about this ... 

Without knowing the terms of payment for the Christie transfer there may only have been a partial up front payment and a series of staged. We do know that the Storey loan cost 50k for each half of the season, its been documented on here before. When McKay left we brought in Ofere - a player recognised as a mercenary who plays for money. Consider we had to sign OFW while retaining Brill and Esson, Foran and Doran were on a wage bill but never played - so we had to over extend our basic playing baudget.

Although a few higher earners leave every time we renegotiate a player contract they will most likely get more, have signing on fees or even bonuses etc - all to prevent them being poached, otherwise fans will complain if we let them walk away after the contract expires and we gamble on unknown bargain basement options. If season tickets remain the same price and revenue fails to increase but living costs go up and therefore outgoings and salaries its inevitable we cant maintain the same level of quantity or quality.

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16 hours ago, TopSix said:

At least it won't be £25/£30 to get in when we're in the Championship next season. 

i'd argue that if we throw money at the problem like many on here are suggesting, then it would be conceivable that ticket prices would actually have to go up in order for us to remain solvent, as attendances would drop and league revenue would drop also. 

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