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hi all first post after creating a account. Belfast based supporter (if the name didn't give it away) that has supported ICT for a good few years now and travel over as much as i can to see games. Been over twice so far this season to the 3-2 defeat at home to county at the start of the league and the 2-1 defeat away to Dundee. The team that played lovely passing football from seasons gone by is long gone replaced by a huff and puff hoof ball team. Heart breaking to see and after today's result i think its time to worry. Whats the point in picking up your game and getting draws against Celtic,hearts and Aberdeen if we can't beat the teams down and around us? I am back over for the Elgin game and i have genuine fear for the result now. Pitty my first post has to be at such a negative time but i was wanting to join the forum for a while. Doesn't matter to me if we are away to Celtic or home to Stirling Albion. I'll still be over as much as i can 

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22 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Cup winning team and most successful ever season

Warren,  Meekings,  Tremarco, raven, draper, tansey, polly, doran

Last years team, as above plus Vigurs,  ofw, fisher

so based on the nucleus of the team being still here and what we have achieved did the last manager over achieve with crap players or is the new manager under achieving with good players. We have recruited poorly with players and other than King & mckay I really don't think the rest are near good enough. 

We persist with the same formation, line up and tactics it's predictable for the fans so no wonder other teams and managers are sussing us out. When Park came in last season we became a tepid, toothless team who focused on possession and lack creativity, this season we are the same, is the job too big for Richie and his lack of experience or is he being let down by those and round him especially Park?

A bit harsh blaming Donald Park for our current predicament IMO.

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Don't really know where to begin with that performance tonight. Seems to be a pretty predictable pattern of ICT 'dominating possession but not getting the breaks'. We certainly seemed to have more of the ball compared to Well but again offered very little in an attacking sense I think it'd be hard to justifiably claim we should have won the game. Best chance of the first half for ICT fell to Vigurs who saw a header from a Mackay cross hit the post whilst Well nearly went ahead when Ainsworth hit the post (I think) with an effort which had Fon Williams looking lost. Perhaps the main talking point of the first half came when Cole lunged into a challenge on a Well player which led to a brief stramash between all the players. Cole looked like he might have gotten away with one as he was just given a yellow card.

At the start of the second half Polworth played in Doumbouya and he shot / crossed the ball to the back post where Cole was just too far behind it to slide in to score. Not long after this Well nabbed the opener. Clay found himself at the right edge of the ICT box and sent the ball flying into the net from about 25 yards. From where I was I thought it either caught the fierce wind or took a deflection which left Fon Williams with no chance to save it but others have save that he (FW) didn't really cover himself in glory with his positioning. Maybe the Well highlights will clear things up but either way it was a strike that certainly looked good and came out of nothing.

Vigurs and Doran then forced Samson into a couple of flying saves curling efforts in from the left and right of the box both turned round the post. A corner from Vigurs which also caught the wind nearly snuck in under the bar but agains Samson was alert to tip the ball over and the subsequent corner saw the ball end up at the feet of Doran and he cracked the ball off the bar with a shot and then, with Samson stranded, Draper followed up to head the ball into the net but he seemed to be bundled over by a Well player. No penalty given there nor a few minutes later when Draper gain went to ground under a challenge from another Well man but this claim looked piss weak by comparison. 

As ICT continued to huff and puff in the search for an equaliser the more Well looked likely to grab a killer second goal on the counter attack and that's exactly what happened. After an ICT attack broke down Moult skipped down the ICT right and crossed for McDonald who tucked the ball past Fon Williams who refused to move off his line to claim the crossed ball, something he's previously looked suspect on, and secured the three points for the away side despite the late goal from Tansey who poked the ball in from about 6 inches out. 

Vigurs was announced as Sponsors Man of the Match which drew boos from the home fans and rightly so but he wasn't the only sub par performer. There are a number of our bigger players not really up to standard at the minute. Tansey is an obvious one here. I can count on one hand the number of good games he has had in 2016 but the problem is who would we replace him with? Of course we can't keep playing players who simply aren't doing it for us but with limited options it's hard to see what we can do.

A key theme of our games over the last few weeks have been our apparent inability to turn possession/chances into goals. All too often our attacks fizzled out with a slack pass, a blocked cross or a wayward shot from a desperate last ditch effort because nothing else was on. Foran seems to have one game plan - lump it high and long towards Doumbouya / Fisher and hope someone collects the knock down. This just doesn't work with Vigurs because he simply doesn't work hard enough to get up to support the target man and collect any balls that are knocked down to him. Doumbouya, during the time he was on, struggled to really win anything in the air and although Fisher had a bit more luck he again was somewhat isolated. There seems to be little in the way of support from one of Tansey or Draper getting forward with both sitting pretty deep and letting the front four try and create a chance. 

In the wide areas Polworth is just lost played as a right midfielder. We looked a bit more threatening when Doran came on and he forced Samson into a couple of decent saves one and also hit the bar with another shot. If we are going to play with big lumps up front perhaps it might be an idea to play the likes of Doran on the wing, instead of a central midfielder like Polworth, and they can try and get some crosses in for Fisher or Doumbouya to attack? Our last good performance at home came against Dundee were Vigurs was dropped and Polworth played behind the striker. Something maybe to try against County with Doran and possibly Cole on the left and right?

Cracking Well support in attendance tonight given the time of year, evening KO and aforementioned costs.

ETA: Having seen the brief highlights it doesn't look like a deflection on the Clay shot. Just kind of catches the wind and seems to go into the net in slow motion. Probably not much Fon Williams could really do. Not convinced the first shout by Draper was a penalty but I still think Fon Williams should have come for the Moult cross.

Edited by RiG
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16 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

As the most experienced member of the coaching staff we have every right to question his input or if enough support is given to the rookie manager.

You are aware Donald Park left the club nearly a decade ago...yes?

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18 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

As the most experienced member of the coaching staff we have every right to question his input or if enough support is given to the rookie manager.

:shrug: I think you stand alone when it comes to blaming Donald Park. For pretty obvious reasons.

Edited by 12th Man
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The only thing that performance did for me was help me make my mind up not to go and purchase a ticket for the game in Dingwall on Saturday. I hope they prove me wrong but no way do I want to witness a thrashing from our local rivals. I'd rather spend a less stressful afternoon doing something else.

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I'm actually one of the seemingly few who will back vigurs today. First half he was undoubtedly the key link for us IMHO and made himself available for a pass when nobody else did.  Yes he made errors but if I'm being brutal over the last few months he's shown more leadership and direction on the pitch than anyone else, never thought I'd say that. 

 

A run like ours can't be blamed on "bad luck". Yet again it could be argued by some that we didn't deserve to lose but few would hand on heart say that we deserved to win,  particularly in terms of genuine chances. 

 

Subs were made timeously but ultimately they were predictable and not genuine plan b.  (and I'd have taken Tansey off rather than polworth, in case anyone cares). Getting Tansey to run around with a wee bit of paper saying to put draper up front when we had probably our most attack minded bench was frankly a wee bit crap.

 

 

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Lets ditch this 4231 formation or whatever we are trying to play and go for the old fashioned 442. Lets face it we have plenty of wingers to pick from so why not use them. Play Draper and Tansey/Polworth centrally, Polworth is sure as hell not a winger. Then go with two proper wingers. My prefrence would be King and Doran. Get them running at the full backs and get crosses into the box. Put two stikers up top and start to create chances and score some goals.

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ICT won the cup and ended near top of the league with most of the present players, therefore the poor play and results must be laid at the feet or head of the manager and coaching staff.

Foran stated the performances are "good but not good enough".

Should we now be asking the same question about him?

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7 hours ago, Row S said:

The only thing that performance did for me was help me make my mind up not to go and purchase a ticket for the game in Dingwall on Saturday. I hope they prove me wrong but no way do I want to witness a thrashing from our local rivals. I'd rather spend a less stressful afternoon doing something else.

The team needs all the backing they can get at the minute to help them get out of this situation. I really hope you change your mind and get across to Dingwall to support them.

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Wish I was going to Dungwall and nothing will stop me going to Hellgin. As RIG says this is the time to rally. There was a lot of complaints about Yogi but he did set up a system, albeit not always pretty, to win games. Foran clearly lacks the experience and really does not have much of a bootroom to advise and mould. As ever we have a manager who sticks by his guns and probably sees change as failure or NOW bowing down to fan pressure. BUT he simply has to if we are to survive. IMHO Tansey has had Aberdire in his head for months. I think that he should have been benched weeks ago. However I hope he provides us with a final "swan song" at Dungwall. Shurely we will ALL be giving this 110%.

As fer being better off going down the ONLY positive to that is cheaper entrance prices and better away days. As OCG points out we could be a Stain Midden. This is not a case of going down and bouncing straight up again.

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8 hours ago, Row S said:

The only thing that performance did for me was help me make my mind up not to go and purchase a ticket for the game in Dingwall on Saturday. I hope they prove me wrong but no way do I want to witness a thrashing from our local rivals. I'd rather spend a less stressful afternoon doing something else.

You have to take the medicine. At least you won't be spending most of the day bouncing around on a Citylink bus because there are no trains back to Edinburgh on Hogmanay. You probably won't have to buy drink for Caley100 or tm4tj or listen to their patter either. Come on, you know you want to :laugh:

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Please two up top to start against County (my preference Doumbouya and Boden, who scored a few goals for us at start of season). Fisher puts in a lot of effort granted but one goal (albeit against Celtic) is a poor, poor return for all his game time. One swallow doesn't make a summer ... Lopez scored against Celtic last season.

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By the sound of it the Motherwell game was another that was there for the taking, but we couldn't deliver the killer blow.  So what has gone wrong? As others have said the nucleus of the squad has not changed much over the past couple of seasons.  Some maybe are creaking a bit, and not at their former best (eg Warren/Raven) but still ,I think, with enough to offer.  We've lacked a consistent goal scorer since Mckay was at his best, but we've managed, with good contributions from Watkins, Storey (at times), Ofere (for a short while), a little from Doumbouya this season, but most from good contributions from the defence and midfield (especially Draper and Tremarco).

Personally I think our biggest loss is the creativity of Christie in generating the good scoring chances for the others.

So all I can see which has changed are the tactics which clearly is down to the manager.  When Hughes let us down big time by engineering his exit, we had no choice, given the budget, but to let Foran have a go.  Even if we were to punt him now, I don't see any big names which we could afford lining up to take his place.  So I think we must give Foran at least until the end of the season to get it right.  I just hope he has learned enough in this first half of the season to make the adjustments necessary to keep us up.   Forget top 6, survival is the only aim now.  I don't go along with those saying a spell back in the Championship might do us good. What rubbish! If we go down I can't see us getting back up first time, or maybe at all.

So it is all hands to the pump, including we, the supporters, to do our bit.  Losing becomes a habit, and we must snap out of it immediately, starting at County on Saturday.  I feel certain that the confidence gained from beating them, would be an enormous boost, just what we need to get the second half of the season going in the way we all want.

So onwards and upwards ICT.

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I felt the game was there for the taking until the first goal. From where I was sitting, I could see it was net bound, so assume Fon Williams lost the flight of the ball in the wind.

Unlike some, I thought Vigurs did as well as anyone, although I would have picked Doran or Mckay if I was picking the man of the match.

The long ball tactic has been seriously rumbled by defenders, so I feel we need to mix it up a bit.

Doran was lively when he came on, and hopefully starts on Saturday, with Polworth in a more central role playing off the striker.

I cannot manage the County game as on family duties, but hope we have a loud travelling support and get a repeat of last year's 3-0 win!

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15 hours ago, hislopsoffsideagain said:

It's been a bad season, and that might be the lowest point so far.  Motherwell were hopeless, and yet we managed to be even more hopeless.

We actually had the better of the first half, but Clay's wind-assisted goal changed the game completely.  Suddenly we stopped trying to create chances by skill and instead spent the last 35 minutes punting high balls up the pitch.  I've never seen so many long throws attempted in a game...even though they never work!  It was like watching Sunday League football.  

Apart from Doran hitting the bar, the other efforts we had looked more impressive than they were because Samson, spooked out by OFW's blunder for their goal (and it was a blunder, he clearly misjudged it and thought it was going over), started punching balls he would have normally caught easily.

Hard to pick out a decent performer - Tansey and Tremarco maybe?  Vigurs' MOTM award was booed by the crowd, and was surely someone taking the mick.

So here's where we're at

- bottom of the table

- nine games without a win - our longest run without a win in ten years

- just one win in thirteen

- more goals conceded than anyone else in the Premiership (only Stenhousemuir have conceded more in the SPFL)

- one clean sheet in twenty league games

- the lowest points total we've ever had in any division after this many games IN OUR ENTIRE HISTORY!

- still conceding soft goals

- still no decent shape when we don't have the ball (the midfield do an awful job of protecting the defence)

- still playing players out of position (POLWORTH ON THE WING?!)

 

When one puts it like that, perhaps it's time to panic?  And am I the only one questioning whether our manager is up to the task?  And how much it costs to pay off a four year contract?

I agree with all you say apart from the last sentence. Yes, there is ample cause for concern but there is no need to panic and it's certainly not time to part with an inexperienced but hugely committed young manager less than half a season into his first job. It may, however, be time to bring in an experienced assistant to help. Someone of the ilk of Donald Park.

 

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Concern levels rising. We need to be taking points off those teams around us, but all of them seem to carry more of a threat than we do. I don't think any of them are better teams all round, but we don't have a Crawford, Coulibaly or what's his Chops at County, who can nick regular goals to make the difference. Equally, we seem to defend quite well for most of the game and then concede either a screamer or a tame one to ship points (e.g. Hamilton, Killie, Rangers, Motherwell). Bad luck? Maybe, but you make your own luck in this game and hard luck stories don't wash at the end of the season.

I have no answers except to say that something needs to change. First, get guys playing in their favoured positions whenever possible. Polworth has to be more central and Draper defensive mid, for example. Second, Vigurs is a luxury player in these circumstances - you need grafters. Third, 2 up front must be worth a try - Cole or Sutherland could run the channels for Doumbouya or Fisher. Fourth, we need to scan the market for a poacher - perhaps Tansey for Storey could be negotiated (otherwise Tansey is yet another lost for free at year end). Not easy for us and certainly not at this time of year. Fifth, pray that Coulibaly and Crawford are sold in the window. We have problems, but so do other teams!

 

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Last night was my first game since October vs Rangers due to work commitments. The performance in the first half was quite good from us and I genuinely felt that we could have been coasting by a couple goal, it was fair to say the luck was against us on that part. 

What I found disappointing from our side was a mixture of good players under- performing and also our managers tactics and the use of subs. The recruiting this season hasn't been at all bad, Brad McKay was outstanding majority of the game I felt. Liam Polworth was played out of position and often wasted out wide.  As the game was going on, it was getting more and more apparent that we are lacking a creative spark that has been missing since Christies and Andy Shinnies departure from the club. 

One thing that I had taken from the game is that Richie's inexperience is starting to show since we are in a rut. From memory, Kenny Cameron wasn't in favour of choosing Paul Hartley due to never experiencing managing a team that's facing relegation. I instantly thought about this and for all his faults, I would like to see Butcher in a Director of Football role to assist Richie for the good of the club. (More chance of pigs flying etc) 

Main thing to take from yesterday, there's a team looking devoid of confidence and we need a massive morale boost, starting Saturday?! 

 

 

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Having watched the highlights attached to OCGs report, Fon Williams had no chance at the first goal, it was all down to the wind. For the second, Warren slipped early in the build up, which probably helped create the space. Cole slipped a few times in the same area, so the pitch possibly had issues too.

On another night, with luck going our way (and a better ref) it would have been a comfortable win.

More than ever, we need to get behind the Manage and players, as we are still in touch with the pack despite a rotten run.

We must be confident things start to fall more in our favour, but let's keep backing the guys, no matter how tough they make it for us! 

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19 hours ago, Row S said:

The only thing that performance did for me was help me make my mind up not to go and purchase a ticket for the game in Dingwall on Saturday. I hope they prove me wrong but no way do I want to witness a thrashing from our local rivals. I'd rather spend a less stressful afternoon doing something else.

I was disappointed with the result last night as much as anyone else that was there, it is a bit childish following the team when we won the Scottish Cup, travelling to Europe and not going to the local derby on Saturday because we lost last night!  Have a rethink you will still get a ticket.

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