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Should We Replace The Manager ? Poll


Kingsmills

Should we replace Foran as manager?  

84 members have voted

  1. 1. Should we replace Foran as manager?

    • Yes
      33
    • No
      51


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The current situation that we find ourselves in reminds me of the time when we could have got Paul Hartley in as manager. I recall being told that Kenny Cameron was reluctant to go ahead appointing Hartley due to his inexperience of handling a team in a relegation battle having only seen his Alloa team promoted twice in his tenure there. It will be interesting to know what Kenny Cameron's thoughts are towards the current run of form but I can't help but think Richie's managerial inexperience will be our own downfall. 

If we are keen to stick with Richie, he needs experienced help in the form of a director of football and Terry Butcher is that man. 

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  • Disagree 1
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2 options, bring in an experienced coach who knows about defending to work with him or get rid although removing RF may not solve the issue if BR is still there - its clear that when JH left Rice didn't want to walk away. If we do remove RF then rather than spend weeks trying to find a manager going through out of work candidates as we cant afford anyone through compensation we need to have an option in place - at this time Charlie Christie would be the only alternative?

Edited by bdu98196
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ARGUMENTS FOR KEEPING HIM

He's a Caley Thistle man through and through

Paying off his contract could cost us a fortune

He's only been in charge 8 months and he's still learning the ropes

He hasn't had a chance to gel Billy Mckay into the team

Sacking a man with a young family is a pretty grim thing to do

 

ARGUMENTS FOR BINNING HIM

12 league games without a win - the worst run in our entire history (before this the record was 9!)

Beaten by every other Premiership team this season except Kilmarnock (who should have beaten us twice)

Knocked out of the League Cup by League One opposition

Seems to be tactically outwitted most weeks - teams have known for months that pressing high stops us keeping possession and pinning our full-backs deep denies us width, but nothing is ever done to counteract this

Lack of defensive organization/shape - back four frequently sit far too deep, players get dragged out of position, midfield offers little/zero protection.  What do they actually do in training?

Vulnerability at set pieces - a problem all season, and no sign of improvement.  Again, what do they actually do in training?

Team selection often makes little sense and is rarely done with the opponent in mind.

Several senior players walk into the team every week regardless of form.  Tremarco excepted, they all seem to be playing well below their best, with Foran seemingly unable to get a good performance level out of them

Frequently playing players out of position - Polworth/Cole on the wings, Vigurs in front of the back four being examples

No sign whatsoever that things are going to improve in time to save us from the drop

The next few fixtures - if you write off the Celtic cup tie, there is effectively a two week window after Saturday in which to get a new boss in.  If we wait till after that Foran is on a hiding to nothing as the next 3 games are Hearts (A), Rangers (H) and Celtic (H). Can we afford to wait until winnable fixtures in mid-March before taking the plunge?

 

 

Anything else I've missed?

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I don't believe the faults lie with Richie, I firmly believe the issue lies with Brian Rice and Scot Kellacher, I say get rid of them both and bring in new fresh coaches with fresh ideas, to work WITH Richie.....but the problem is the club cant afford to do this, and simply wont so theres no point in talking about it. If we go down we go down with the rats on board

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It doesn't seem to be working but I hate ditching managers which can in itself be hugely disruptive - especially given that, realistically, ICT aren't high on the keen-to-go list of even desperate, out-of-work managers.

Some posters have been suggesting revamping the coaching team and set-up to provide Richie with more and better support/advice. That's surely the best option.

(Preferably before the cup tie at Celtic - most of us have already written that one off but in our present state, losing 3-0 at Accies, the trip to Across the Road from the Emirates could be embarrassing)

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Football wise, we are clueless, lack shape, can't pass to each other and when we have the ball constantly give it away, set pieces fail time and time again. Basically the team look like a bunch of strangers thrown together at the last minute. Who is to blame? Players, managers and coaching staff all must take their share of the blame.  

Also, Richie gives conflicting messages to the media. Before Partick game it was must win. Then afterwards Richie was delighted with a point. I nearly crashed the car on my way home when I heard him say that.  If he can't make up his mind with what he says to the media, are his direction and ideas to the players as conflicting?? 

TCS was (and no longer is) somewhere teams did not like coming as they knew they would be in for a hard time. Now it's bordering on a certain 3 points for the visitors no matter who it is. 

I'm not being negative, just realistic.  Either sack Richie now or get him supported. I like the idea of Terry Butcher as 'Director of Football', but would he come back? Could we afford him? I think not. 

In summary, I think 2017/18 will be Championship football for us now. Doesn't look like Richie can keep us up. Don't think he would then get us promoted. Tough times lie ahead for quite a few years I think. 

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after a rather bad nights sleep with that result stuck in my head i have calmed down and just like us all there is nothing more i want than a club legend like Richie to do well. I have no doubt in my mind that he loves the club and this is hurting him just as much as it is us. The question is if we lose this Saturday will that be the time to go? Will it be the end of the season if we go down? And if we do go down is Richie the one to get is back up? As he will have a bit more experience in the job. As previously stated lets see what the Dundee game brings after that a very difficult February awaits. I picked the wrong month to have a break from drinking i think :cry: 

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1 hour ago, CableGuy said:

I don't believe the faults lie with Richie, I firmly believe the issue lies with Brian Rice and Scot Kellacher, I say get rid of them both and bring in new fresh coaches with fresh ideas, to work WITH Richie.....but the problem is the club cant afford to do this, and simply wont so theres no point in talking about it. If we go down we go down with the rats on board

Can you provide evidence re this tho? Just because Richie is a good guy and a club legend it doesnt mean he is bomb proof!!!

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I'm still of the view that appointing an inexperienced manager to a top flight club was a wrong move. I always hoped that I was wrong in this assumption but twelve games without a win kind of strengthens my views.

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14 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

Can you provide evidence re this tho? Just because Richie is a good guy and a club legend it doesnt mean he is bomb proof!!!

Your absolutely right, hes not bomb proof and I don't think for a minute hes blameless in all this, however what I DO believe is that Foran whilst the manager, will have a relatively lesser input to the training drills and sessions midweek, which due to "experience" will fall largely at the feet of Rice and Kellacher. Now, albeit last season we were nowhere as bad as we seem to be this season, however we were still relatively uncreative and although we managed to at least string a pass together, we couldn't create anything in MF or upfront to lead to a goal. Who was the 2 coaches under Yogi,.....Rice and Kellacher! I believe the only reason we managed to get a run of wins and draws to drag us into 7th was Yogis attitude and the fear factor that's sadly lacking with Foran. I quite often pass by Fort George and see the players training with.....yes you guessed it, Rice and Kellacher. Foran is generally standing watching, now whether that is right or wrong I have no idea, but hes obviously letting his coach and assistant take the lead in training, probably due to his inexperience, and this I feel is where he is going wrong, as hes obviously not learning the correct way to do things, and the mistakes of last season are being repeated and accentuated by Forans inexperience. The amount of training injuries we pick up, also is a huge area of concern in my opinion and displays a worrying level of training quality

He picks the team every week, so yes hes got to shoulder a lot of the blame, but I think if theres an area to target now, its the training area. We've got a pretty good team, stronger as of yesterday and we should not be where we are based on players, but as on Saturday the players look like they haven't seen each since the previous game and have no idea where each other are, something is far wrong from the training aspect

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I think it is now evident that the risk in appointing Foran, especially on a 4 year contract, has failed.  Are his assistants also on 4 year deals?   Even if the management team resigned en masse, there will still be hefty compensation deals to agree, but for the longer term good of the club, this is a bitter pill that the club will have to swallow.

Give another management team the chance to rebuild , get the squad sorted out, and get them playing with some passion.  I fear saving us from the drop would now need a miracle, and the new management team's primary role should be aimed at preparing us for Championship football.

From the Board's point of view, they have the difficult challenge of running the club with significantly less income where just making ends meet would be an achievement.  I know many will say we did that before as we climbed through the leagues, and then again when we got straight back up after our relegation.  But, I fear, it will be a lot harder next time (if or when) we go down.  

Sorry if this sounds ultra pessimistic, but I think we have been overachieving for a long time in recent years and now reality has caught up.

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The bottom line is that we have to do something quick. And there simply HAS to be some clear statement of intent made by the board. The team selection on Saturday will be very, very interesting. I reckon it may sink or save Foran. This is the biggest "must win" of HIS career.

Just looked at my match report after the Hearts game in August:

Well were do I feckin start - Lets look at this comment first - Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager Richie Foran: "I don't think it was a 5-1. We had more chances on goal today than we had in the previous three games, but you've got to put the ball in the net." It could actually have been 25-5. We were slaughtered. It was embarrassing. 44% possession but NO width and NO penetration. 13 shots on goal and 7 on target - for on target add weak or directly at keeper. 7 corners all aimed at Gary Warren. Fer fecks sake.

"They had that bit more belief when they had their chances. That's what we lacked." And where do they get that belief from. Shure Rice was barking orders but that is lukewarm. Foran looked like a feckin mannequin. Take the feckin suit off and give them laldy. Be more of Foran the nasty, snarling player, forget they were team mates and give them some good old Irish bollockings.

"We had too many players underperforming as well. I've got to take a big part of the blame for that as well - I picked the team, I picked the tactics, I picked the training through the week." Fair enuff - Neither Butcher or Hughes would have said that. But the tactics are WRONG. BUT we don't have any real replacements. I thought "If it was me - how could I change it ?" - Only by being ruthless and perhaps playing the yoof.

"These players have proven over the years they are top players, but I'm not getting the best out of a few of them at the moment, so I'll take the blame for today." That is a fellow player talking - a buddy - a friend - not a manager. The blame will rest with Foran in the end but we have some of his old buddies playing cards in the feckin trenches. There are some who frankly are not playing for the shirt becos they probably think - "well who else is there". Apart from Warren and Tremarco NOBODY else looked like they were giving 100% - please refer to Grumpometer becos there is NOTHING to smile about !!

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Giving Foran a 4 year contract was a statement from the Board that they have confidence in Foran in the long run.  Of course they will have appreciated his inexperience and along with that must be a realisation that he will require support and that there is an element of risk in all of this.  I therefore do not think the Board will sack Foran but they really need to work hard to tease out where the current problems lie and get those sorted out.

I do wonder if the Board, in appointing Foran, realised too late what a dreadful legacy Hughes had left and the long contract was almost an acceptance that dropping out of the top flight was inevitable. Four years would be a decent period for re-building a team in line with Foran's philosophy and a return to the top flight.

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Personally I think the board gave the job to RF to save their own skins. Whatever the ins and outs with JH they should have had a contingency plan in place when they realised things were going sour. For some reason this didnt happen, in fact was the job advertised and any other applicants interviewed ?

What was on RF managerial CV that impressed the board so much that they awarded him such a generous contract ? Being a 'Club Legend' is not grounds to taking on a managerial position. If that was the case Grant Munro had more of a shout to being appointed, he at least had a managerial CV.

        

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DD what dreadful legacy did JH leave? First major piece of silverwear, 3rd in the league, first sally into Europe, a style of play that allowed us to control many games and a decent position in his final season despite a horrendous injury list, I would bite your hand off for that now.

When I heard RF had the job I badly wanted him to succeed but knew that when we hit a rough patch as all teams do, that would be the making or the breaking of him, that is where experience shows its worth and I'm afraid to say RF has not passed that test. Paul Hartley showed how to regroup when the goals dried up after having lost his two best strikers. I'm afraid RF has no clue how to turn this around. There is no shape to the team, no movement, no passing and now the players have gone into hiding and downed tools. I can't see how the board can allow this to continue other than accepting relegation and everything that would entail. No one likes to see someone lose their job but professional football is a business like any other.

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This is our record after 23 games in our last seven seasons since we were last promoted.  That's how grim this season's record is!

 

 

 

P W D L F A PTS
2016-17 23 3 8 12 26 43 17
2015-16 23 7 8 8 30 32 29
2014-15 23 15 2 6 34 21 47
2013-14 23 11 5 7 29 21 38
2012-13 23 9 10 4 48 37 37
2011-12 23 7 4 12 30 40 25
2010-11 23 7 8 8 31 28 29

 

 

For the record, we have the same number of points (and a marginally better goal difference) than at this point in 2008-09, when we went down.

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It would be interesting to know how many points we have taken this season when wearing that vanilla away top. I can't recall us winning a league game when wearing it and perhaps only gaining two draws. I know there are other more serious problems, many of which have festered since the time Hughes was in charge, but I think that top has been a bit of a jinx. No wonder there were plenty of them in the JD store before Christmas when the home top was sold out.     :whoosh:

Edited by Row S
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25 minutes ago, hislopsoffsideagain said:

This is our record after 23 games in our last seven seasons since we were last promoted.  That's how grim this season's record is!

 

 

 

P W D L F A PTS
2016-17 23 3 8 12 26 43 17
2015-16 23 7 8 8 30 32 29
2014-15 23 15 2 6 34 21 47
2013-14 23 11 5 7 29 21 38
2012-13 23 9 10 4 48 37 37
2011-12 23 7 4 12 30 40 25
2010-11 23 7 8 8 31 28 29

 

 

For the record, we have the same number of points (and a marginally better goal difference) than at this point in 2008-09, when we went down.

Define freefall

 

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