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Naelifts

The case foran against

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Yeah, having more shots on target and not winning the game definitely sounds like an improvement to me.

That 3 - 1 win over Dundee was the last time we won a game at home in the league. I have no idea how you can cite one above average second half performance as an example that things have 'vastly improved'.

In the seventeen games that followed we have taken 10 points from an available 51. That is atrocious.

Edited by RiG
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21 hours ago, 12th Man said:

However if you like stats, According to the BBC, we had 13 shots with 10 on target on Saturday.

Go back to our 2-1 Dundee defeat and it was 20 shots and only 3 on target.

Only one shot on goal every 30 minutes.

That tells me things are vastly improving

I read as far as "According to the BBC" then started laughing uncontrollably 

12th Man it's all very well being a happy clapper but at the very least try and put forward a good case 

Dougal

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The problem I have with Foran is his not learning from mistakes. He's inexperienced, so mistakes were inevitable, but sticking with untried formulas and with failing players has really hurt us this season. Form teams have a really strong spine, but ours has been flimsy all season, from back to front! Keeper, central defenders, holding midfielders and strikers have not performed consistently enough and have often been played out of position time and again.

I couldn't make the game on Saturday, but watched some of it on Alba. Billy certainly gives us some bite up front and the fightback was heartening BUT our defence is a teabag! Averaging 2 goals a game in our net is certainly relegation form and RF hasn't found the formula to solve the problem. I'm not sure 4-4-2 is a great way to go to crack that nut: Our apparently powder-puff central defence needs all the protection it can get - the thought of Sinclair, Roberts and Armstrong playing between the lines in a 4-4-2 terrifies me. Let's see what Richie does next week.

Summing up, we are where we are on merit (or lack of it). Much of the blame is on Richie but too many players have not turned up consustently this season. Tremarco and Draper (before injury) get good marks, with Doran improving, but that's about it. The problem is that we're going to have to do better than other teams against the top 5 AND more than hold our own against those around us...a tall order on current form, notwithstanding a spirited comeback on Saturday. It is do-able, but already needs another one or 2 teams to have a shambolic run over the next 10 games or so to give us a break. Testing times.

Edited by PerfICT
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Not been on here for a while due to laptop problems but anyway heres my tuppence worth.

I've not been able to get to a game this season but have seen what TV has had to offer and what the papers write. I do think its been a pretty bad season for us but I also see that as being the same for a number of teams. There is six points between sixth and twelfth so, to me, that is seven teams fighting relegation. Any of those teams could kick away, including us, and any of them could end in bottom two. I wont give up believing till its mathematically impossible too avoid going down.

Relegation...Is it so bad in the current set up. There is more money filtering down now as opposed to last time. There is still a lot of quality in Championship as can be seen by the difficulty Rangers Hearts Hibs and DU have found trying to get back up. I think we'll survive but I also hanker a wee bit for a  change of scenery

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Of course relegation would be bad as there would be no guarantee of an automatic  return to the Premier League. This would involve major changes then having to happen at the club and would set us back several years no matter how nice the scenery:smile:

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Sorry but I feel that this needs continued debate. If I was in charge I would be looking at Richie's contract and looking at a deal to end it. A legend but one that needs to go before we actually make things a lot worse for him. The next two games may be chalked down to just go fer it affairs. Sevco is more of a could do. We need to get in a new management team for the Sevco game. We then have to task them to either save us from relegation or prepare to bounce back up again. Richie is NOT going to change things, Richie is not going to infuse the necessary passion. Richie unfortunately can only make things worse. I do NOT want to remember him as the man who took us out of the Premiership and potentially further down the ladder. The Board are also the ones that need to make that decision and that would be a major back down for them. Do they actually have the bolls to do it ?

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27 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Sorry but I feel that this needs continued debate. If I was in charge I would be looking at Richie's contract and looking at a deal to end it. A legend but one that needs to go before we actually make things a lot worse for him. The next two games may be chalked down to just go fer it affairs. Sevco is more of a could do. We need to get in a new management team for the Sevco game. We then have to task them to either save us from relegation or prepare to bounce back up again. Richie is NOT going to change things, Richie is not going to infuse the necessary passion. Richie unfortunately can only make things worse. I do NOT want to remember him as the man who took us out of the Premiership and potentially further down the ladder. The Board are also the ones that need to make that decision and that would be a major back down for them. Do they actually have the bolls to do it ?

Sad but true I'm afraid.  I've copied and pasted below a paragraph from my post on 1st Feb in the "Should we replace the manager"  thread.

......Give another management team the chance to rebuild , get the squad sorted out, and get them playing with some passion.  I fear saving us from the drop would now need a miracle, and the new management team's primary role should be aimed at preparing us for Championship football.....

Nothing has happened since then to make me change my mind.  In fact the miracle needed to survive has only got bigger.:cry: 

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There is no question that Richie's inexperience is costing us week after week. His response to our crisis is to go with experience in the middle of the park - sacrificing pace and invention. The Draper/Tansey/Vigurs midfield is catastrophic. Worse still when Polworth is played on the right. No pace, no invention. Despite warning signs about this formation for weeks, Richie persists with it at Parkhead of all places! 4-3-3 looked like our formation against one of the most mobile teams we've ever seen in Scotland! Utterly suicidal not to offer Warren and mackay protection with 2 holding midfielders who would deny space in that crucial part of the field.

The frustration is that I think we do have a good enough group of players to get us out of the mire, but I don't have any faith in Richie to pick the right team in the right formation to do it. Play the same midfield trio in the next 3 games and we'll be thrashed in all 3, destroying any remaining confidence and dooming us. Vigurs needs to go and Doran, Cole, Mulraney need a chance in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Time is short.

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http://www.highland-news.co.uk/Sport/Football/Caley-Thistle-boss-Richie-Foran-Write-us-off-at-your-peril-14022017.htm

Quote

"There are 42 points up for grabs and we go into the weekend just three points behind Hamilton, so we are well in it. I honestly believe there is more pressure on the teams above us. They are looking over their shoulders.

"There are another six teams in this relegation fight. If we can get two wins then we are battling for a top six finish. The vast majority of this squad don’t lack confidence. Fear has not spread through this team. That shows the mental strength these boys have."

 

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.....and if he was talking down the teams potential he would be getting battered for lacking drive and ambition. :shrug:

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9 minutes ago, CaleyD said:

.....and if he was talking down the teams potential he would be getting battered for lacking drive and ambition. :shrug:

Ambition and talking up potential is all very well but right now we are in a relegation battle and one we are not currently winning. What we need right now is focus on that and a sense of realism.

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Ambition, belief and positivity are traits essential to getting us of the bottom............................. try some of that yourself and give some real support.

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16 minutes ago, bughtmaster said:

Ambition, belief and positivity are traits essential to getting us of the bottom............................. try some of that yourself and give some real support.

What's to be positive about ? We're bottom of the league , out of the cup and not won a league game in God knows how long .

 

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29 minutes ago, bughtmaster said:

Ambition, belief and positivity are traits essential to getting us of the bottom............................. try some of that yourself and give some real support.

Having not been to any home games in yonks I can't speak for what goes on there, but certainly at away games the team is getting positive support as usual. Not that it does any use. 

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2 hours ago, bughtmaster said:

Ambition, belief and positivity are traits essential to getting us of the bottom............................. try some of that yourself and give some real support.

I am supporting the team and the manager all the way in the battle against relegation. Continuing talk about a fruitless battle for top six that was lost weeks ago is nothing more than a distraction from the very real task that is becoming more and more difficult with every passing winless week.

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2 hours ago, bughtmaster said:

Ambition, belief and positivity are traits essential to getting us of the bottom............................. try some of that yourself and give some real support.

Absolutely no issue with Foran being positive and trying to get out of the situation we find ourselves in but instead of talking about top six we should channel that positivity into something more realistic, but still difficult to achieve, at this current time and that's 10th place. Basically let's walk before we run.

Edited by RiG
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I think the distinction with what is said to the press and what is said to the players needs to be drawn. You would not expect the manager to come out and say " we are going down and there is little I can do" (even if it may be true) to the media.

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3 hours ago, CaleyD said:

.....and if he was talking down the teams potential he would be getting battered for lacking drive and ambition. :shrug:

What potential? Not seen any significant amount of it on display since the Motherwell game (apparently 2nd half of Dundee was good to but was not there). Some of these players have achieved so much in the past, but it is becoming increasingly evident that we will not see this potential again under the current manager. I certainly would appreciate it if he took his head out of the clouds. He is right, two more wins would take us into a top six battle but having not won a league game since October what makes him think that we are going to do it against Hearts and Celtic? We will likely be two losses down and out more out of touch with top six by then. He needs to stop mentioning top six and just concentrate on getting us of bottom (something which I do not think he is capable of).

Edited by Iain

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4 hours ago, RiG said:

so what he has said is a reflection of the facts.  there is a 7-way relegation battle. we are 3 points behind hamilton, and if others current form continues in a similar vein, then 2 wins very much puts us in with a shout of 6th place.  the mystical 10th position is only 2 points above a playoff and 2 points behind this seasons holy grail of safety - 6th.  10th at the split will not free us from the relegation battle, 6th is the only true safe position. if we aim for 6th and fall short, we may well be safe. if we aim for 10th and fall short we will be relegated.

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I hope he isn't saying that at all even to the players. He needs to be saying to everyone that we are in a dire way and its time to rally, fight and battle to stay in the league. He needs to channel the negative press about us and how they see us and as a wee club to fire everyone up. The emphasis should be on bottle and fight even if it's ugly wins. Top 6 is fanciful and makes him look nieve to all of this and open to fan and plater mockery.

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For as long as we've been in the top league fans on here have been screaming at managers to stop talking us down with talk of survival being the number one priority etc.  Even when Butcher and his successor would talk about being focused on catching the team in front each week people would ask for more optimism and ambition.

Now we've got a manager who hasn't/isn't saying those things you'd think people would be pleased......but alas, it's not to be.

The point is not about what should or shouldn't be said, it's that some people seem intent on criticising; regardless of what is said.

Just for the sake of clarity, I'm not being critical of the support the manager/team get at matches.  Those who turn up, home and away, have been great, IMO.

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What Foran says or doesn't say to the press doesn't really matter, it's now all about doing our talking on the pitch.

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