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16 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

To be honest, Huisdean, I'm not a lot further on after that answer. However, the account you give of the most definitely neddy behaviour of the Section E micro-louts is a lot more definitive and is a vivid description of an absolute disgrace. Wee neds like that need got rid of until they grow up - if they ever do so. For some reason, and sectarianism creates the same problem, football falls victim again and again as a platform for rank undesirables like this. Somebody mentioned losing 50 admissions if this infestation were not to turn up. Quite frankly it would be money well lost just to get rid of these obnoxious creatures but in practice, if it were thought that you could visit the Caledonian Stadium without having to be subjected to this brainless thuggery, the net financial effect would probably be positive. Little parasites like this are a cancer which urgently needs excised and to hear people attempting to justify them on the grounds that they make a noise is laughable.

It's difficult to say how many of their parents are also neds but irrespective of that, one thing is certain - these parents all need to get a grip of the thoroughly unpleasant, anti-social behaviour of the offspring they have inflicted on our society.

 

Charlie charlie charlie....you are a feckin charlie!!!!

You are an obnoxious, opinionated fool.  I hate to fall back into the old argument, but if that 50 attendees is money well missed, are you going to reimburse the club.  for a man who has personally made money from the club, when was the last time you put your hand in your pocket for that club? 

and describing others as neds because they dress and act a certain way?and dont fit into your perfect image of a football fan? definitely childish. and from such a mature, well educated man of means as well...

I have never and will never condone acts of violence towards fellow football fans or others, i can understand why it happens.  look at this forum, for example.  how many people on here, who are supposed to be 'mature' get into heated childish arguments over disagreements? so it's really quite understandable that a group of testosterone and often alcohol fueled teens act in a similar manner.

and the general disapproval of 'ultras' is a bit annoying too.  i actually think an ultra group can be good for a club, not only do they lead the vocal support of a club, they can also do more for the club and community as a whole.  I look to the Green Brigade of Celtic for a leading example in the UK...not only do they provide a wonderfully vocal and visual support for their club, they also raise donations in the thousands for charities, food drives for food banks etc. but because they wear SI or bucket hats they're simply neddy hooligans!? think not. some of them might be, but to make that generalisation is a bit naive.

in reference to the Young Teams choice of fashion - Stone Island etc. is actually quite sensible apparel for attending football matches - warm, waterproof etc.

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I might be missing something here, but is anybody complaining about an atmosphere being created. It's the extra curricular activity that's not being condoned. Someone enlighten me. The young team make

Some of the replies to this thread about the young fans at the bottom of section E are frankly disgusting. Describing them and their parents as "neddy" is frankly deplorable and not something I'd expe

Charlie charlie charlie....you are a feckin charlie!!!! You are an obnoxious, opinionated fool.  I hate to fall back into the old argument, but if that 50 attendees is money well missed, are you

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1 minute ago, ictfcsince94 said:

Charlie charlie charlie....you are a feckin charlie!!!!

You are an obnoxious, opinionated fool.  I hate to fall back into the old argument, but if that 50 attendees is money well missed, are you going to reimburse the club.  for a man who has personally made money from the club, when was the last time you put your hand in your pocket for that club? 

and describing others as neds because they dress and act a certain way?and dont fit into your perfect image of a football fan? definitely childish. and from such a mature, well educated man of means as well...

I have never and will never condone acts of violence towards fellow football fans or others, i can understand why it happens.  look at this forum, for example.  how many people on here, who are supposed to be 'mature' get into heated childish arguments over disagreements? so it's really quite understandable that a group of testosterone and often alcohol fueled teens act in a similar manner.

and the general disapproval of 'ultras' is a bit annoying too.  i actually think an ultra group can be good for a club, not only do they lead the vocal support of a club, they can also do more for the club and community as a whole.  I look to the Green Brigade of Celtic for a leading example in the UK...not only do they provide a wonderfully vocal and visual support for their club, they also raise donations in the thousands for charities, food drives for food banks etc. but because they wear SI or bucket hats they're simply neddy hooligans!? think not. some of them might be, but to make that generalisation is a bit naive.

in reference to the Young Teams choice of fashion - Stone Island etc. is actually quite sensible apparel for attending football matches - warm, waterproof etc.

Fantastic :clapoverhead:

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I, however, cannot understand why violence happens. It shouldn't happen anywhere in a civilised society. Alcohol and arguments with unknown people on an Internet forum is not sufficient I'm afraid.

You bring up ultra groups. One thing Ultra groups do, if you do your research, is leave fellow supporters alone. They do not get, by all accounts into altercations, with disabled fans in a pie queue. There is no way you can condone that surely? 

While I still agree there is most definitely a place for you in the stadium there is also a place for the mum and dad with there 2 small kids. 

Get it out of your head that because you sing and make noise that your a better fan than others. While I think it's great and it's better than silenece. I prefer not to be involved in it. Doesn't make me or anyone else less a fan. Like I said, everyone should be allowed to follow the club as they please and should not be criticised or abused for doing so.

Edited by Sir C the 3rd
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2 minutes ago, Sir C the 3rd said:

I, however, cannot understand why violence happens. It shouldn't happen anywhere in a civilised society. Alcohol and arguments with unknown people on an Internet forum is not sufficient I'm afraid.

You bring up ultra groups. One thing Ultra groups do, if you do your research, is leave fellow supporters alone. They do not get, by all accounts into altercations, with disabled fans in a pie queue. There is no way you can condone that surely?

I have never and will never condone acts of violence towards fellow football fans

yup ^^said that, don't condone violence......

The green Brigade? If you think they are good for Scottish Football let alone Scottish society then there is a lot to learn. Celtic will have had to pay a lot more in fines from their behaviour than they will have ever donated to charity.

im pretty sure, although, not 100% that GB try as a general rule to match/outdo the amount the club pays in fines with their charitable donations.  i'm not going to get into the arguments about whether those fines are fair and just however....

Like I said earlier I agreed with a lot of what chedan1 said. Do what you like, just no need for pretend fighting and abusing fellow fans. If you want to continue the hooligan pretence. Can you do what actual hooligans now do. I.e organise your antics away from the stadium. While I still agree there is most definitely a place for you in the stadium there is also a place for the mum and dad with there 2 small kids. 

Get it out of your head that because you sing and make noise that your a better fan than others. While I think it's great and it's better than silenece. I prefer not to be involved in it. Doesn't make me or anyone else less a fan. Like I said, everyone should be allowed to follow the club as they please and should not be criticised or abused for doing so.

Also never said that 'quiet' spectators are less of a fan than those who make noise...your arguing with yourself there.

i assume you're replying to my post, whilst at the same time addressing me as a member of the Young Team, i'm neither young or indeed in that team.

my head now hurts!

 

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The club really needs the kind of vocal support the young lads give.  They keep singing when we're losing and you can see it really gives the boys on the park a lift.  The club and the community surrounding the club really needs to do all it can to encourage these youngsters to come along and give that support.  The more that do, the more likely it is that some of the older and more restrained supporters will also give more vocal support.

I don't know whether the anti-social behaviour is perpetrated by the same lads but let us just assume, for the sake of argument that it is.  One thing you can be pretty sure about is that that there will be just one or two ring leaders responsible for starting it.  The others who get involved simply follow the leader like sheep as happens in some many aspects of life.  It's human nature, so let's have a bit of perspective here.  The majority of the lads are just normal lads out to have a good time and whose exuberance sometimes means they get involved in things which on reflection they will realise was wrong.  It's all part of growing up.

Of course, if youthful high spirits leads to more serious incidents then those responsible need to be dealt with.  If one or two get banned from the ground for fighting or whatever, or arrested by the police outside the ground, then that will serve as a lesson to the rest about where the barriers between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour lie.  When you are young, it can seem that forcing others to make way for you or picking a fight is making you appear grown up.  It can take a while to realise that it is much more grown up to make way for others and to discourage others from fighting,

 It's easy to be critical of youngsters but how many of the older contributors to this site can honestly say that when they were young they never behaved in a way which now causes them to shake their heads disapprovingly when youngsters behave that way today?  Cut the kids some slack, for goodness sake!

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Perhaps people should keep in mind that the actions of 2 or 3 boys do not represent the whole group, especially when the vast majority are still sitting in their section when this incident occurred. I very much doubt the front row boys who run the group would condone their actions. In fact I'd go as far as saying the group seem to have a decent relationship with stewarding staff and police. That is when said stewards aren't being heavy handed (which isn't often). Perhaps there is a more obnoxious fringe within the group who aren’t even Caley fans. But we shouldn’t demonise or blame the committed diehard front row.

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For the last couple of seasons St J have had great vocal support at games from their Young Team, the Fair City Unity. But similar to what we are reading here, most other fans find their other antics to be an embarrassment to the club. It's a pity that groups like this can't seem to give great support without it being accompanied by some unsavoury stuff.

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14 hours ago, tm4tj said:

I might be missing something here, but is anybody complaining about an atmosphere being created. It's the extra curricular activity that's not being condoned. Someone enlighten me. The young team make a noise, that's a positive. Somebody starts a fight?, that's a negative. 

Exactly. I will sing along at all matches and enjoy away games for atmosphere created. However threatening fans of opposing teams is not big and its not clever. Partick was a prime example post match where some idiots thought it was funny to shout at each other and play at chasing each other. One of these days someone will get seriously hurt, hopefully not an innocent fan who happens to be walking away from game. So stop confusing creating an enjoyable atmosphere at games while supporting your team with behaving like morons inside and outside of the ground. There are a lot of enthusiastic boys and girls who love supporting their team but unfortunately some of them seem to look up to the small minority of attention seeking trouble makers and think it is okay to behave in a loutish manner.  

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2 hours ago, chedan1 said:

It really is unbelievable that Bannerman used to be allowed to work with children.

There is no call for personal abuse and any repeat by anyone will result in being barred from posting on this thread.

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34 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

There is no call for personal abuse and any repeat by anyone will result in being barred from posting on this thread.

I've highlighted below some abuse that has until now gone un-checked by moderators...rules need to be applied across the board, surely??

19 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

To be honest, Huisdean, I'm not a lot further on after that answer. However, the account you give of the most definitely neddy behaviour of the Section E micro-louts is a lot more definitive and is a vivid description of an absolute disgrace. Wee neds like that need got rid of until they grow up - if they ever do so. For some reason, and sectarianism creates the same problem, football falls victim again and again as a platform for rank undesirables like this. Somebody mentioned losing 50 admissions if this infestation were not to turn up. Quite frankly it would be money well lost just to get rid of these obnoxious creatures but in practice, if it were thought that you could visit the Caledonian Stadium without having to be subjected to this brainless thuggery, the net financial effect would probably be positive. Little parasites like this are a cancer which urgently needs excised and to hear people attempting to justify them on the grounds that they make a noise is laughable.

It's difficult to say how many of their parents are also neds but irrespective of that, one thing is certain - these parents all need to get a grip of the thoroughly unpleasant, anti-social behaviour of the offspring they have inflicted on our society.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

There is no call for personal abuse and any repeat by anyone will result in being barred from posting on this thread.

Not abuse, just a simple observation and opinion. Considering the way Mr Bannerman describes kids as "neddy" " creatures" "parasites" and "a cancer." I'd certainly consider this to be far more abusive. Not a nice way to talk about committed members of our club. The opinions being expressed by some remind me of the senior figures in the town in 'Footloose'

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Absolutely pathetic that the club is in serious danger of being relegated and the most active thread on this forum comprises a group of old farts trying to wind up the future of our club.

I seriously question whether anyone over 35 can truly support the club with the same fervour as someone who has been born and raised as an ICT fan. Who were your clubs before the merger? Stick to using the internet to shop for comfortable fleeces, please.

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1 hour ago, ictfcsince94 said:

I've highlighted below some abuse that has until now gone un-checked by moderators...rules need to be applied across the board, surely??

 

It's unfortunate that, in the current pussyfooting, handwringing, PC, "no-platforming" era, apologists choose to conflate robust and legitimate criticism with "abuse". Clearly the abusive ones are those whose anti-social (is that too strong for you as well?) activities have been adequately described further up this thread and these need to be addressed in various ways. Indeed, one of the main reasons why these wee neds behave as they do is that they have become far too used to having their heads patted rather than (metaphorically in the present day and age) their a*ses well and truly kicked.

If these undesirables are the "future of our club" as Pump Fake has just suggested, then our club indeed has no future. This is a football club and not a medium for the cultivation of delinquency. For your own sake, grow up lads.

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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1 hour ago, chedan1 said:

Not abuse, just a simple observation and opinion. Considering the way Mr Bannerman describes kids as "neddy" " creatures" "parasites" and "a cancer." I'd certainly consider this to be far more abusive. Not a nice way to talk about committed members of our club. The opinions being expressed by some remind me of the senior figures in the town in 'Footloose'

Pretty bad craic if you can't express opinions on a forum without the threat of being barred.

I personally find what Charles Bannerman has written to be highly inappropriate & offensive on a number of levels. Also why Moderator's have not picked up on this but have let it slide instead is a mystery.

Level playing field please!

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17 minutes ago, PumpFake said:

Absolutely pathetic that the club is in serious danger of being relegated and the most active thread on this forum comprises a group of old farts trying to wind up the future of our club.

I seriously question whether anyone over 35 can truly support the club with the same fervour as someone who has been born and raised as an ICT fan. Who were your clubs before the merger? Stick to using the internet to shop for comfortable fleeces, please.

I'm not really comfortable with this interweb thingy. If I tell you the size and colour, will you find a fleece for me?

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5 minutes ago, CaleyMax said:

Pretty bad craic if you can't express opinions on a forum without the threat of being barred.

I personally find what Charles Bannerman has written to be highly inappropriate & offensive on a number of levels. Also why Moderator's have not picked up on this but have let it slide instead is a mystery.

Level playing field please!

Kingsmills has already indicated that personal abuse is not tolerated. If you object to anything else feel free to use the 'report' button.

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yellow.pngAny more personal abuse and this thread gets closed ... and that goes whether the poster is 17 or 77. Theres enough bile being flung from all directions that no-one can claim innocence in this thread. stick to the facts and leave the name calling out of it.  

As to why moderators have not acted already. Simple fact is we have received no complaints/reports (from anyone) using the process we have in place. If we were to shut a thread down at the first sign of trouble then we are accused of being over zealous, get called "nazis" or called out on impeding free speech ! But once it gets to a stage of abuse where we feel it has crossed the line and dragged the topic away from the subject then a forum moderator can and will moderate the thread without the need for a report. This is why Kingsmills posted the warning, why others have noted similar and why I am now wasting 10 minutes of my life typing this paragraph that no-one will read !   

 

Anyway ... moderator hat off now ... normal person hat on !


For my own part. Singing/Atmosphere and trying to get the crowd going and the players motivated is great in my opinion and I totally support that ! I have been present in the past when our chairman (not chairman at that time though) has gone to bat for those guys when the stewards were being jobsworth's. At least some of the people in those expensive seats or boxes do see and understand what you try to bring. I have seen the atmosphere dwindle on my trips home over the years and thats not because people dont want to have an atmosphere, its because the enjoyment has been legislated out of the game so anyone trying to bring that enjoyment back has my full support and backing ...  

However, if the actions of a few of the group are dragging your name down then you either need to cut them loose or take them aside and have a serious word. In other words, you need to self-police before someone else does it for you. At the end of the day, if you don't, they are either going to get arrested, get you arrested, or get your group banned from the stadium ... especially if any of the comments regarding the actions of "the few" about hassling their own supporters, intimidating disabled supporters, and/or physical or verbal abuse to both home and away fans is true.    

I talk from experience here - albeit with Toronto FC not ICT - where one specific supporters group engaged in all those kinds of behaviour and after one flare too many the cops moved in and removed 200 of them en-masse, took all their details, then requested the club to revoke season tickets (which they did - for a season and then permanently for some after another incident). I belong to a different group and ours is still raucous, waves flags, banners, beats a drum and all sorts, we go to the pub before and after games and get pi**ed ... its all very reminiscent of the early days of ICT for me ... but apart from the odd scuffle here and there, where two people might disagree or someone is rat-arsed and makes a bad choice, there is no hassle .. even with 35,000 in the ground ... and even when we play the likes of Montreal !! You can have atmosphere without the negative stuff and it strengthens your hand with the club and authorities if you do engage in self-policing to make sure your group stays in line as much as possible ! Write me off as an old fart giving crap advice if you want, your choice, I wont lose any sleep over it ... but trust me, its much easier when you know folk have your back than it is when you're seen as the problem ... 

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Getting back onto the actual game.....the first half was dreadful, much happier with the second half. I'll be honest and say it was my first game since Dunfermline in July so my thoughts are on this game alone. Thought that Raven and Tremarco were terrific (but MrCaleyjag disagreed!), wasn't impressed by Anier but again just my opinion. Like I say my first time at a home game this season, we sat in section E only the north stand - really enjoyed it and the atmosphere created by the young guys at the front, good on them. What I would say is that there were older kids at the back who were trying to break seats at the end of the game by stamping on them. Quite what they thought they were going to achieve is beyond me, suffice to say they didn't have any strength to manage it!

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The support is great from the young team. Notice where the players celebrated after our goal? That is the kind of support we need at this stage of the season and should be encouraged.

Edited by Iain
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10 minutes ago, Iain said:

The support is great from the young team. Notice where the players celebrated after our goal? That is the kind of support we need at this stage of the season and should be encouraged.

Excellent point about the players

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ICTF since 94..........

C.B may be opinionated but "Obnoxious" is flat out personal abuse. But expressing HIS opinion is his right , whether you agree with it or not, and that's the way he expresses himself . So.? He's unlikely to change now, but are you?

You were on here only five minutes, literally five minutes, and you referred to S.P., in your opinion, as  "being on something". And that is personal abuse also. The only thing that S.P has been on in his entire life is his hobby horse. He's the court jester who tries to liven up a world filled with pain and sorrow, brutality, extensive starvation , murders and rape, chaos and corruption and so forth ad nauseam. In Syria certain factions are continuing to deliberately target and bomb hospitals in order to wipe them out, for goodness sake. Our food is genetically modified, or chemically altered, tasteless rubbish and global warming is a very real threat to our existence, yet countries still ignore it. I go on the BBC website for world news every day and I shudder to think of what is eventually going to happen to this world if this continues. And therefore I come on here to relax and engage in lively, positive discussion, nothing else.

And don't forget that in the days of yore, Court Jesters were the link between the powerful kings of the realm and the other ambitious, lower ranking but often dangerous, courtiers. Picked because they were very intelligent and useful tools of state who were often skilled negotiators and  knew how to get and disseminate information at Court without causing deep offence to anyone. Don't apply for the position after S.P dies since your comments are impetuous and unwise. And I don't think you have yet paid your dues and acquired the knowledge and right to be that critical and very personal.

As for the comments from one of the above members on here about  old farts not having the right to their opinion about Caley Thistle, etc.,  I went to my first game at the age of 11 or 12 in Inverness and have never changed my allegiance to my football team in Scotland, even if I do live about 6,000 miles away. I just found ways to keep into touch about everything. So, IMHO, my opinion is as valid as anybody else's even if old S.P's memory is flagging and boredom is a problem.:whoosh::ictscarf:

 

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3 hours ago, TheMantis said:

I'm not really comfortable with this interweb thingy. If I tell you the size and colour, will you find a fleece for me?

Initially I object to the sheepshagging reference by PumpFace.

Secondly I would say that people who have supported Caley or Thistle all of their lives, ignored the hype and chose to change their allegiance to ICT and continue to support their local team are every bit as equal in fervour as those who do not remember the days of the Highland League. But I wonder how CB would compare the antics of today's yoof in comparison with the days of the Ferry, Dalneigh and Hilton gangs who frequently stood and fought on the terraces and joined together in Away Day frolics. There were no "ultras" in the 70's, there were "hooligans".

The Young Team are the heart and soul of ICT and without them the atmosphere at the Dump would undoubtedly be crematorium-esque. Perhaps if they were just allowed to Feckin enjoy themselves without the pathetic harassment of the yellow tits and local plods we would not be having that debate. What they decide to after a game is up to them as long as it is enjoyed with the kindred spirits of visiting Ultras and without causing distress to families and innocent others. They are the victims of their own success. 

Hey boys - this fleece seeking Grandad salutes you :clapoverhead:

 

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Well this has really kicked off!

IMO the Young Boys bring an excellent atmosphere to games (home and away) and they represent the future support to be encouraged. However, as a supporter of another club south of the border in the eighties, where fans were herded into cages and hooliganism was a weekly occurrence, particularly if Chelsea or Millwall were in town, I've seen how this can end. I was 13 at the time and went to the football with a schoolfriend every other week. After a year or so, he sadly chose the hooligan route and I lost contact with him. It turns out that he ended up serving time for football-related crimes and eventually had to emigrate to Australia to build a new life. I know some of the younger supporters in the Young Boys - they are nowhere near being neds (and nor are their parents) but some are easily led and enjoy the posturing and bragging rights....just like my pal 30 years ago. Fingers crossed it doesn't end in tears for any of these guys.

Edited by PerfICT
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